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Vladimir
07-24-2006, 18:53
It appears the limp wristed attitude Britons have against firearms isn't shared by all. Apparently there is a "holiday" camp where marksmen from around the globe come to compete in a respectable competition. The winner is awarded the Queen's Prize, whatever that is.

After seeing http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41923000/jpg/_41923248_gun_girl203.jpg

I was kind of curious. What kind of people do you find at these competitions? Is is your stereotypical BNP type of event, aspiring Olympians, or just hot blonde English chicks who could use a little sun?. Does anyone know?


:rifle: :unitedkingdom: (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5209632.stm) <----click me

ZombieFriedNuts
07-24-2006, 19:20
Don’t forget farmers, farmers have guns

Tribesman
07-24-2006, 20:21
Apparently there is a "holiday" camp where marksmen from around the globe come to compete in a respectable competition. The winner is awarded the Queen's Prize, whatever that is.

That would be Bisley .
Is is your stereotypical BNP type of event:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
No it is a national and international sporting center .
The major difference between the NRA in America and the NRA and NRC in the UK is that in America if you get some muppet making a speech about prying weapons from his cold dead hand some members buy the bumper sticker , in the UK they would revoke his membership and ask serious questions about his eligibilty to possess firearms due to a clear mental imbalance .
I have only been shooting there once , but my wife used to shoot there a lot for England and Great Britain and two of her cousins still compete there with the S.African team (though they used to be in the Zimbabwe team)

InsaneApache
07-24-2006, 20:59
Ahh yes Bisley. The old school of musketry.

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
07-24-2006, 23:08
Shooting is very popular in Britain, most rural children have at least fired a .22 air rifle. I used to be quite a good shot myself, unfortunately my eyesight continues to deteriate and my glasses can't keep up so without a scope I'm shooting blind, and I haven't actually shot at all in a year.

In Britain rifles and shotguns are "clean" weapons that it is perfectly acceptable to own. Handguns, however, are "dirty" and the ban, which was badly thought out, hasn't helped.

I think the big difference in the UK is that most of us don't buy our weapons with the intention of ever using them on a person.

Strike For The South
07-24-2006, 23:09
Oh you sir are missing out.

Watchman
07-25-2006, 01:23
Would you believe Finland has per capita the third most firearms in the world (#1 and #2 being unsurprisingly the US and something like Oman or some other oil-sheik state)...?

Strike For The South
07-25-2006, 01:34
Do you enjoy killing innocents with your firearms as much as we do?

Watchman
07-25-2006, 01:58
Do deer and other game animals count ? Ours are 99% hunting arms...

The only people who carry handguns around are the cops.

macsen rufus
07-25-2006, 10:03
Do you enjoy killing innocents with your firearms as much as we do?


Go ask a policeman...

Red Peasant
07-25-2006, 10:17
Oh you sir are missing out.

We could always import some genuine 'white trash' from the American South for target practice? ~;)

Watchman
07-25-2006, 10:26
Don't you have chavs already ?

macsen rufus
07-25-2006, 12:35
Don't you have chavs already ?


That would be unsporting....

... the proper weapon is the crossbow :2thumbsup:

Banquo's Ghost
07-25-2006, 12:42
That would be unsporting....

... the proper weapon is the crossbow :2thumbsup:

I would have thought anything more accurate than a trebuchet was unsporting. It's not like they move very fast, even at the best of times, and let's face it, Burberry hardly counts as disruptive camouflage.

:wink:

Watchman
07-25-2006, 12:43
I thought Teh Tradishunal English Weapon was the longbow...?

Or was that reserved for use against pesky Welsh ?

Banquo's Ghost
07-25-2006, 12:47
I thought Teh Tradishunal English Weapon was the longbow...?

Or was that reserved for use against pesky Welsh ?

As you say. Although IIRC, the option is only open to the men of Chepstow, who may pincushion said Welsh persons within their precincts after dark.

Strike For The South
07-25-2006, 14:25
We could always import some genuine 'white trash' from the American South for target practice? ~;)

If a get a free trip to England Ill be target practice. Hell I even have the snagletooth

Vladimir
07-25-2006, 14:39
I thought Teh Tradishunal English Weapon was the longbow...?

Or was that reserved for use against pesky Welsh ?

No no no. Longbows are used by the Welsh against the French.

InsaneApache
07-25-2006, 15:15
It appears the limp wristed attitude Britons have against firearms isn't shared by all. Apparently there is a "holiday" camp where marksmen from around the globe come to compete in a respectable competition. The winner is awarded the Queen's Prize, whatever that is.

After seeing http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41923000/jpg/_41923248_gun_girl203.jpg

I was kind of curious. What kind of people do you find at these competitions? Is is your stereotypical BNP type of event, aspiring Olympians, or just hot blonde English chicks who could use a little sun?. Does anyone know?


:rifle: :unitedkingdom: (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5209632.stm) <----click me

Limp wristed? :inquisitive:

Perhaps we just don't want there to be 29, 000 deaths a year from firearms. BTW does anyone have any information when the UK population was dis-armed?

Vladimir
07-25-2006, 15:20
Edit: Never mind, sorry for being an ass.

InsaneApache
07-25-2006, 15:31
Well 29, 000 is a lot of old ladies. Which ban are you talking about? There are several laws restricting the weapons allowed. The handgun ban, if that is what you allude to, has been a joke. All it's done is push handgun ownership underground.

macsen rufus
07-25-2006, 15:33
BTW does anyone have any information when the UK population was dis-armed?


Can't remember the details without running to my bookshelf, but I have a feeling Henry VIII dropped the requirements for his male subjects to keep a bow at home due to rebellious peasantry.... apparently the threat of armed citizens outweighed the need for a large reserve force of bowmen at the time.

Watchman
07-25-2006, 16:33
That didn't keep the country from crawling with assorted blackpowder firearms though, AFAIK. One suspects the longbow having become essentially obsolete as a military weapon having rather more to do with that one.

Pannonian
07-25-2006, 17:01
Limp wristed? :inquisitive:

Perhaps we just don't want there to be 29, 000 deaths a year from firearms. BTW does anyone have any information when the UK population was dis-armed?
Automatics and semi-automatics were banned after Hungerford, while handguns went the same way after Dunblane.

Pannonian
07-25-2006, 17:18
Well 29, 000 is a lot of old ladies. Which ban are you talking about? There are several laws restricting the weapons allowed. The handgun ban, if that is what you allude to, has been a joke. All it's done is push handgun ownership underground.
It means that criminals can still easily get handguns on the black market, but law abiders will have to get a .303 through the eye of a needle to do so. This may seem ridiculous, but criminal gangs tend to use those weapons on each other, and most of us don't care about those casualties except when bystanders are caught up. When these weapons are used in robberies, they are rarely fired, since most people follow police advice of staying docile and calling CrimeWatch afterward. What's more, criminal gangs far prefer non-violent crime like fraud, forgery and so on, which is far more profitable and has far lower penalties even when caught.

The real danger is from legit users who are undetected psychos. Autos and semi-autos are obvious enough, but handguns are easily concealable, hence also dangerous (the alarm would have been rung the moment Thomas Hamilton went through Dunblane Primary School gates with a rifle or similar long gun). By restricting access to firearms, undetected psychos can do less damage before they are detected and subdued. IIRC another primary school teacher received a George Cross when she shielded her charges from a maniac with a katana. She was seriously wounded, but no-one else was hurt. Imagine the damage if he had used guns instead.

Duke Malcolm
07-25-2006, 18:37
Automatics and semi-automatics were banned after Hungerford, while handguns went the same way after Dunblane.

They seem to be quite snappy, and (the latter, anyway) ill-thought out. The Scottish Executive is trying to get the Home Office to make an air gun/bb gun licence in Scotland after a three year-old was accidentally shot (might have died, I cannot remember) with one. Even if the guns were not banned, I doubt the murder rate would be higher, perhaps a few more at best.

Red Peasant
07-25-2006, 19:29
Can't remember the details without running to my bookshelf, but I have a feeling Henry VIII dropped the requirements for his male subjects to keep a bow at home due to rebellious peasantry.... apparently the threat of armed citizens outweighed the need for a large reserve force of bowmen at the time.

A law of Henry's requiring all able-bodied Englishmen to practice their archery on a Sunday is still active. I promised him that I'd turn up at the archery range next Sunday! He had to pass laws to compel people to practise archery, not to disarm them.

Red Peasant
07-25-2006, 19:33
It is obviously far more 'limp-wristed' to shoot somebody or something from a distance, especially animals who can never shoot back.

Put 'em up you cowards! :boxing:

:laugh4:

Pannonian
07-25-2006, 19:50
They seem to be quite snappy, and (the latter, anyway) ill-thought out. The Scottish Executive is trying to get the Home Office to make an air gun/bb gun licence in Scotland after a three year-old was accidentally shot (might have died, I cannot remember) with one. Even if the guns were not banned, I doubt the murder rate would be higher, perhaps a few more at best.
You can't deny though that anti-gun laws are popular among the general electorate, and as long as they continue to get votes, they won't be repealed, and will be expanded. Shotguns are the hunting weapons of the respectable farmers and aristocracy, and so are immune from this stigma, but everything else is pleb and prole and offends Daily Mail readers. Perhaps Shadeswolf can elaborate on this trend.

Pannonian
07-25-2006, 19:53
It is obviously far more 'limp-wristed' to shoot somebody or something from a distance, especially animals who can never shoot back.

Put 'em up you cowards! :boxing:

:laugh4:
True men don't hunt deer with rifles, they stalk them in the grass, wrestle them to the ground with their bare hands before tearing out their throats with their teeth.

InsaneApache
07-26-2006, 01:20
That's all OK and good but what about the sheep? :inquisitive:

BTW Chepstow is in Wales, so they'd be either shooting themselves, or each other....

Now what about the sheep........:sweatdrop:

Papewaio
07-26-2006, 01:38
I would have thought anything more accurate than a trebuchet was unsporting. It's not like they move very fast, even at the best of times, and let's face it, Burberry hardly counts as disruptive camouflage.

:wink:

But they move in groups so the pattern disrupts picking off individuals much like reef fish or zebras. Using a trebuchet would be unsporting because they would stand stunned trying to pronouce the word before being splattered in a large group by the flung car or other handy missile.

Mooks
07-26-2006, 06:32
True men don't hunt deer with rifles, they stalk them in the grass, wrestle them to the ground with their bare hands before tearing out their throats with their teeth.

Or wrestling a bear with a dagger in between your teeth and blood all over your body.

Someday....

Pannonian
07-26-2006, 10:10
That's all OK and good but what about the sheep? :inquisitive:

BTW Chepstow is in Wales, so they'd be either shooting themselves, or each other....

Now what about the sheep........:sweatdrop:
I suppose we'll have to arm the sheep as well.

macsen rufus
07-26-2006, 10:48
Welsh sheep have got enough to worry about already....

Fragony
07-26-2006, 11:23
I suppose we'll have to arm the sheep as well.

Here in Dutchiestan, good idea.

Awwwwwwwww I wish these puppie's were legal here, I would be all over them.
I want a P90

http://cs.gamer.hr/vodici/slike/p90.jpg

Yay for armorpiercing SMG's.

I also want a FAMAS G2

http://world.guns.ru/assault/famas_f1.jpg

900 rounds a minute, spray and pray.

And I MUST have a modified fully automatic Glock18

http://www.scottsdalegunclub.com/mga_machineguns/mgphotos/G18.jpg

Cooler then eskimo's.

Banquo's Ghost
07-26-2006, 11:26
Here in Dutchiestan, good idea.

Awwwwwwwww I wish these puppie's were legal here, I would be all over them.
I want a P90

Yay for armorpiercing SMG's.

I also want a FAMAS G2

900 rounds a minute, spray and pray.

And I MUST have a modified fully automatic Glock18

Cooler then eskimo's.

I am intrigued. Why do you want these things? :inquisitive:

Pannonian
07-26-2006, 11:36
I suppose we'll have to arm the sheep as well.
Here in Dutchiestan, good idea.

Awwwwwwwww I wish these puppie's were legal here, I would be all over them.
I want a P90

Yay for armorpiercing SMG's.

I also want a FAMAS G2

900 rounds a minute, spray and pray.

And I MUST have a modified fully automatic Glock18

Cooler then eskimo's.
I am intrigued. Why do you want these things? :inquisitive:
His sheep are insufficiently armed.

Pannonian
07-26-2006, 11:38
Welsh sheep have got enough to worry about already....
Believe it or not, the American soccer club New York Cosmos used to have a goalkeeper named Shep Messing.

http://www.ussoccerplayers.com/exclusives/447872.html

Banquo's Ghost
07-26-2006, 11:41
His sheep are insufficiently armed.

Hmm. Arming sheep is a recipe for disaster. Remember Harold: A Lesson from History (http://www.serve.com/bonzai/monty/classics/TheSheepintheTreesSketch).

If they achieve flight and automatic weaponry, the burghers of Swansea may face annihilation.

Fragony
07-26-2006, 11:57
I am intrigued. Why do you want these things? :inquisitive:

Are you kidding me? These things are shiny, noisy, and make holes into things. Regardless of what they are intended to do, they are exceptional pieces of technoligy, every part is perfection. I simply cannot understand someone that doesn't want toys like that.

Banquo's Ghost
07-26-2006, 12:36
Are you kidding me? These things are shiny, noisy, and make holes into things. Regardless of what they are intended to do, they are exceptional pieces of technoligy, every part is perfection. I simply cannot understand someone that doesn't want toys like that.

Well, I've had and used toys like that (well, somewhat more utilitarian) and seen what they are intended to do. Indeed, in my term of service I used them to do what they are intended to do, and whilst it was necessary, the memory still haunts me.

In my terms of reference, I guess I simply cannot understand someone who thinks these things are toys. :shrug:

Pannonian
07-26-2006, 12:44
Are you kidding me? These things are shiny, noisy, and make holes into things.
I have a squeaky hole puncher that fits the description.

Fragony
07-26-2006, 12:57
Well, I've had and used toys like that (well, somewhat more utilitarian) and seen what they are intended to do. Indeed, in my term of service I used them to do what they are intended to do, and whilst it was necessary, the memory still haunts me.

In my terms of reference, I guess I simply cannot understand someone who thinks these things are toys. :shrug:

I am sorry to hear that, and there is no way I can understand. But I just admire the technoligy, there is just something about it shooting a projectile and hitting something over great distances. If they aren't used to kill people, aren't they just toys then? I tend to agree with the guns don't kill crowd, it's not the guns that made you go there, but the politics of the day.

(sorry for the oversimplification)

Banquo's Ghost
07-26-2006, 14:18
I am sorry to hear that, and there is no way I can understand. But I just admire the technoligy, there is just something about it shooting a projectile and hitting something over great distances. If they aren't used to kill people, aren't they just toys then? I tend to agree with the guns don't kill crowd, it's not the guns that made you go there, but the politics of the day.

(sorry for the oversimplification)

Oh, absolutely right, and I don't think it's an oversimplification - just a clear statement of fact.

There is much to admire in the technology, and I can't really deny that the fascination with technology married to power (all wrapped up in phallic symbolism) appealed to me as a young man planning to join the army. That's why I asked, really - I was interested in your own reactions, so as to analyse my own, now rather mixed and perhaps guilt-affected motivations. So thank you for being open. :bow:

I guess I'm over-sensitive on the issue, and whilst I have no clear opinion on the gun-owning arguments that occasionally rage, I do take issue with anyone (not you, believe me) who flaunts or otherwise glorifies guns. Yes, they are tools, and yes dependent on the person who uses them, but they do tend to evoke an irrational power trip in otherwise sane people - and thus perhaps tip less sane people over an invisible edge.

That's why I would tend toward a gun control argument that requires testing, training and careful licensing, because too many today think that guns are just like the pretty video games and that you can reload someone's life. Whereas I can understand the self-defence argument in today's world, I can think of few more dangerous things than a frightened, under-trained civilian holding an automatic weapon in public.

Maybe splitting hairs on vocabulary, they might better be considered 'gadgets' rather than toys - things that entice and fascinate, but don't have the innocent, harmless connotations that the word toy implies.

Don't know, and I hope I'm not moralising too badly here, just thinking aloud from my own experience.

Anyway, back to the sheep. :bounce:

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
07-26-2006, 23:11
Most of the guys I've met who've been in it feel the same way and they were the ones that trained me to shoot. As a result I am always aware of what I'm holding and while I enjoy shooting, especially scoped, I would almost say that, in a way, my rifle terrifies me.

Tribesman
07-26-2006, 23:18
I would almost say that, in a way, my rifle terrifies me.
I thought squaddies were only terrified of their own rifle if they were on guard duty at Deepcut :sweatdrop: :eyebrows:

English assassin
07-27-2006, 15:43
BTW does anyone have any information when the UK population was dis-armed?

It never was (ignoring the partial bans after Hungerford and Dunblane). I've been told the police stopped accepting "self defence" as the legally required good reason for a firearms certificate some time in the fifties, which must have cut down the numbers a bit, but otherwise we have had more or less the present regime for donkey's years.

If you go back far enough firearms must have been somewhat more readily available (no one seems to think its odd when Sherlock Holmes asks Dr Watson to bring his old service revolver along, for example), but we have never been disarmed because we were never really armed.

I rather like the gun culture in the UK. Macho idiots in camo need not apply. And (although I was not a member of a gun club at the time so I can't really comment) I don't know that I regret the handgun ban. Its probably inverse snobbery but I'm pretty suspicious of middle aged men with beer bellies who want to do "practical pistol". Why?

Red Peasant
07-27-2006, 17:03
... or young men with more testosterone than they can handle and their brains in their butts.

InsaneApache
07-27-2006, 17:34
Marlow was killed in a swordfight, so I'd just assumed that swords and firearms were outlawed at about the same time. I have this residual memory, from school., (well it is 30 years ago) that swords and firearms were prohibited about the time the first police force was set up.

Yes, Watson was called upon from time to time to carry his old service revolver, so that's, what? 120 years ago? I just have this idea that firearms were much more readily available in Victorian times. Mind you so was cannabis, laudanum, opium.....ahh those were the days. :mad:

English assassin
07-27-2006, 18:04
I just have this idea that firearms were much more readily available in Victorian times. Mind you so was cannabis, laudanum, opium.....ahh those were the days. :mad:

There were weren't they? Holmes was a cocaine addict who shot holes in his walls with a revolver and played his music too loud, not to mention having criminals doing drive by shootings, and everyone thought he was great.

Bit like being a hip hop star I suppose.

InsaneApache
07-27-2006, 20:26
Now there's thought. A 'rasta-man' Sherlock Holmes who cant get the old deerstalker on his bonce because his dreadlocks just keep making it 'pop up'....

:disguise:

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
07-27-2006, 21:25
I would almost say that, in a way, my rifle terrifies me.
I thought squaddies were only terrified of their own rifle if they were on guard duty at Deepcut :sweatdrop: :eyebrows:

First off, could you not make jokes about that, please.

Second: I think it depends on the soldier I know this one guy who actually has a death wish, he was standing on top of a Landie in Iraq's "Sniper Alley" holding up a big target and wearing no body armour.

He's the kind of guy who has a bronzed AK on his mantlepiece.

Then there's this old soldier I know, he always starts his introduction lesson on shooting with This is a weapon, never point it at ANYONE, EVER.

Tribesman
07-27-2006, 21:46
First off, could you not make jokes about that, please.

Why ?
Do you not think that the initial finding of suicide by contortionist was a bit of a joke .

English assassin
07-28-2006, 10:14
Then there's this old soldier I know, he always starts his introduction lesson on shooting with This is a weapon, never point it at ANYONE, EVER

with heroic effort resists the obvious "was he French" joke

InsaneApache
07-28-2006, 10:27
When dad was a bootneck and a recruit called his rifle a weapon the instructor used to make him unbutton his flies and get his willy out. Then he was told to hold his willy in one hand and his rifle in the other.

He then had to repeat. (holding his willy)

'This is a weapon'

(holding his rifle)

'this is a gun'

'this is for shooting'

(and holding his willy again)

'and this is for fun'.

:laugh4:

Peasant Phill
07-28-2006, 10:49
I think I heard that rhyme in 'full metal jacket'

InsaneApache
07-28-2006, 12:43
Probably. However since Pater joined the Royal Marines in 1945, it predates it by about 40 years. :dizzy2:

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
07-28-2006, 22:51
First off, could you not make jokes about that, please.

Why ?
Do you not think that the initial finding of suicide by contortionist was a bit of a joke .

Not a funny one, and its a very short rifle, you could happily shoot yourself in the head.

Assassin, he was a "Gun Pig" and he's been out for forty years, he teaches children now.

Red Peasant
07-28-2006, 23:12
Not a funny one, and its a very short rifle, you could happily shoot yourself in the head.



Twice. :inquisitive:

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
07-28-2006, 23:17
Change lever to "A"?

Its still not funny :no:

Tribesman
07-29-2006, 00:35
Twice.
Change lever to "A"?

From behind ?
change arms to elastic .:idea2:
Besides which , if you had the selection switch in position A , how many rounds (if you are a really elastic suicidal contortionist) could you fire by depressing the trigger before or after you are dead ?

Its still not funny
The event is not funny , the inquiry is .

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
07-29-2006, 19:42
Twice.
Change lever to "A"?

From behind ?
change arms to elastic .:idea2:
Besides which , if you had the selection switch in position A , how many rounds (if you are a really elastic suicidal contortionist) could you fire by depressing the trigger before or after you are dead ?

Its still not funny
The event is not funny , the inquiry is .

Point, although I thought at least one of them was shot in the throat, maybe that was one of the ones that actually did kill himself:inquisitive:

As to how many, well I could answer "two" or "30" depending.