Polished or unpolished? [Archive]

View Full Version : Polished or unpolished?

edyzmedieval

07-25-2006, 13:37

It's time for the fans to choose if they still want to wait for a stable and very good build, or they want only a stable build, but to be released now. ~:)

The simple reason: The fans have waited very long for the 0.8 version, and we don't want the fans to wait too much.

Choose: Now or Later. :thumbsup:

Now - Stable 1.5 build, some key features missing, might have some problems
Later- Totally stable 1.5 build, all key features implemented, one step closer to the final finish.

Geoffrey S

07-25-2006, 14:28

Sounds like you're missing the point. Sure, a stable build is great, but it sounds like the EB team is still working on incorporating fundamental features into the 1.5 build. Next release certainly doesn't need to be CTD free, nor is it likely to be, but there's no point releasing a game missing key features such as the government and recruiting system.

Besides, whatever happens is up to the EB team, and I'm sure they'll release their work when they're satisfied the people who play the mod will be satisfied. No sooner.

Cybvep

07-25-2006, 14:28

What do you mean by "later"? It's important...

EDIT: You can always call it v0.79, BTW :P.

Ergion

07-25-2006, 15:27

Imo the best and faster way for obtain a very polished build, is release before a not totally polished (and open) build.

Teleklos Archelaou

07-25-2006, 15:48

Note that when eddyz says 'time for the fans to choose', it may be fine for him to put a poll up, but that doesn't mean the team has asked for a poll to actually determine the matter. :grin: eddyz get's a little poll-happy from time to time methinks. :laugh4:

The Spartan (Returns)

07-25-2006, 16:18

polished completely but not as polished so that its EB 1.0!

stalin

07-25-2006, 16:22

I've played vanilla two weeks now without a single CTD

Zenith Darksea

07-25-2006, 16:24

Just how much later is 'later'? If we're talking two or three weeks, then I can take it. But if we're talking two or three months, then I'd prefer something now.

Ergion

07-25-2006, 16:38

Just how much later is 'later'? If we're talking two or three weeks, then I can take it. But if we're talking two or three months, then I'd prefer something now.

2 o 3 week? hehehe. Very funny :laugh4:

In my opinion for a very polish 0.8 version, 2 or 3 weeks is totally insufficient. Inclusive 2 or 3 months could be insufficient. Modding a huge massive mod as EB is very hard and need a long time.

If for 0.72 beta we had await for a totally polished version I think we still awaiting for it at present days.

Foot

07-25-2006, 16:39

I'm not going to give you a release date as that would just put pressure on the team, but at the moment we are currently putting in the new recruitment system which should be a matter of days. After that there is the integration the latest units, they have a timetable attached to them as the intergrater will, unfortunately, be on holiday soon. Beyond that, it is a simple matter of getting some beta testing going and fix the most persistantly annoying bugs and then release to the public. 2 - 3 months is not likely unless the world conspires against us (it has before), and 2 - 3 weeks is much more likely estimation.

Be reminded that this is my conception of the problems and solutions ahead, and is hardly an offical EB estimation. Kull or TA would know more about that.

Foot

KnightOfTheImperialDragon

07-25-2006, 17:34

I voted for the build to be "polished completely."

My reasoning behind this is that the fans need the mod to release a series of very stable mod versions with most if not all new features implemented. This way, the fans can spend weeks enjoying that version, which gives the mod developers time to work on the next version while getting constructive criticism from the fan beta testers. If an unpolished build is released missing some "key" features, some fans may feel that the omissions are game-breaking and either stop playing the mod completely or spam the forums with criticism about the features being omitted. This would just cause many headaches among the design team. Therefore, you should make the fans wait a few more weeks for the "polishing" to be accomplished.

Geoffrey S

07-25-2006, 18:33

Not in any hurry anyway. Too much work to actually play, and I'm sure I'd enjoy it just as much in a couple of weeks as in a couple of months; moreso in a couple of months perhaps, since then I don't have to read all the posts saying how great EB 0.8 is without having time to play it. ~;p

Kull

07-25-2006, 18:57

When it is released, EB will be as polished as we can make it - the understanding being that v.80 is not 1.0 and thus there will be a number of things "to-be-done". EB will not release anything until we are confident that it measures up to - and surpasses - previous releases.

That does not mean all old problems will be fixed, nor that new ones haven't crept in - just that we are committed to giving you the best product possible within the parameters of the internal goals we have set for this release.

To that point. One of the reasons v.80 is "taking so long", is that we combined what were originally planned as two separate releases - a small upgrade featuring fixes to known v.74 issues plus some new units, and a later porting over to v1.5 with perhaps some additional new units. For a variety of reasons, we decided to do both in a single release.

To put things in perspective, it took over a year to produce the first Beta (v.72) and 3 months to achieve the relatively bug-free v.74. In some respects, v.80 is almost as difficult as v.72 (i.e. developing an entirely new government/MIC system) and it's FAR more complicated than v.74. In that light, I hope you will understand that the time we have taken - and will take - is both necessary and well spent.

iglauskas

07-25-2006, 19:00

I'm for the "polished completely" version... EB is great, but 0.72 had so many annoying... err, inaccuracies, that it prevented me from playing it despite of the wonderful skins and overall highest level of the mod.

Celareon

07-25-2006, 21:14

I want the time to enjoy EB 0.8, I've been waiting a long time for EB, since before RTW came out but classes begin again in 3-4 weeks and i will have no time to play at all, not to mention MTW II will come out and eb isn't even 1.0 yet, there has to be a line drawn before 0.8 becomes 1.0. If the build will be very incomplete without recruitment then of course wait but if its nearly feature complete and almost-bug-free then why not - it's still a beta after all, I can't play 0.74 due to crashes so i'm sure more anxious then some.

-Praetor-

07-25-2006, 22:09

Hi.

I think that the most eclectic solution is the released of the actual version, the unpolished one.

Since there are a lot of people that want to play a polished version of EB, they can choose not to install the unpolished version at all, and wait for the polished version. And all the people that want to play EB 0.8 right now, they can play it with all the bugs and CTDs at their own risk.

By releasing 0.8 later, and following the "Polished Completely" side, you leave a substantial group of Eb fans needlessy insatisfied.

In addition (and most important), you despise all the help that the EB followers may give in order to find and stomp the CTDs and other minor bugs.

Wisest and most eclectic solution is releasing the unpolished version of the beta in the shortest of terms.

Bye.

Idomeneas

07-26-2006, 01:15

I will speak as a person familiar with graphics as profession, modding and follower of the course of EB almost from the beginning.

Personally i would like not a polished, but an ultra polished mod. EB is being developed for over 2 years now. I understand why is that. The will for a perfect product in combination with hardcode and many problems that occur in modding teams in general for various reasons can delay the project. But fo those 2 years we hear announcements talking about great innovations, great expectations and so on. So thats all i want. I waited all this time and i wanna be amazed as i was promised. I dont even want 0.8, 0.9 or 0.88757578 versions. I dont care about half working stuff. Take your time and just one day release a final bug free version and amaze us.

Given the chance i wanna say something and please dont take it wrong. When i first saw EB being developed i thought its units were amazing comparing to the borring old vanilla. Then i didnt know much about how far modding can get. As time gonne by i saw other mods emerging and the quality of their units as models and skins made my favourite EB abit pale. So i started noticing that many EB units are very familliar with the vanilla ones or just a reskin while there could be more potentials.

I like very much the work of dirty peasent in CTW, i like the work of Caius in some Crusader TW units, i absolutely love Blue lotus as whole.

I see now some old EB preview and i catch myself thinking '' this could be better''. Not for all factions. The celtics, germanics and easterners look very good. Romans are good but some Greek factions really need improvement. Everytime i see those corinthians with the emboss snake on shield or the lack of a better attic helmet im abit disappointed.

My suggestion is that since you are very busy with mechanics and coding have your 2d-3d people check all units once more and make improvements.

Sorry if this isnt an OMG post but those dont really help in anything do they?

Teleklos Archelaou

07-26-2006, 01:32

Actually Idomeneas, Spartan Warrior has been going over a lot of older units and retouching them up. He submitted 15 new thureophoroi variations (not new, but made them better) as well as a ton of lower phalangites and the taxeis hoplitai too. Forgus has worked on a lot of the peltastai as well and has been doing a great job with skirmishers all across the east. With Spirit of Rob's wonderful work on both elite phalangites and hoplites, and a number of other regional units the hellenic factions should have access to pretty quickly, I'm expecting a lot out of our new units for 0.8 for the hellenic factions.

econ21

07-26-2006, 01:39

Jarardo

07-26-2006, 02:34

Wow, suprising results

Redigo

07-26-2006, 04:29

It's funny -- two months ago I would've said "gimme," but now that I've been waiting this long I really want to see an excellent release. I check this forum every couple of days now just to keep up on the 0.8 news -- it's become a fetish object for me.

To the EB guys: thanks for giving me the most engrossing gaming experience I've had since my NES days. EB is already a staggering achievement.

Dayve

07-26-2006, 10:09

Being an obsessive compulsive clean freak perfectionist, i find myself not able to enjoy EB in its current state because i cannot put units with a grey peasant unit card into my army, and a LOT of units have that card. You might say, it's easy, just put the unit in there and forget about its card being a grey peasant, but i can't... I can't recruit them and i can't use them in battles, so i would rather wait another year for a polished version.

However, if a version were to be released with the unit cards done, then i'd download that and play it happily... It's just the unit cards... My mind won't allow me to use grey peasant unit cards...

Ergion

07-26-2006, 11:41

Musopticon?

07-26-2006, 13:00

My bottomline would be that the next version be stable. The reinforcement battle crash bug rendered v0.72 and v0.74 versions ultimately unplayable for me. I know that's far from a uniform experience, but I also know my experience is not unique. I don't mind stuff being unfinished, but having to fight the same battle N times over and being rewarded with a crash is pretty dispiriting.

I guess I'm saying "take your time".

Totally agree.

I have the same exact gamekilling bug and have so far not started any new campaigns when my favorite campaign was killed by this bug. I'd really really like to play as Aedui, but the CTD seems too random to be easily avoidable. Or at least avoidable enough for me to not get stuck.

So I'm kinda sorta wainting for EB 0.8 now.

Jarardo

07-26-2006, 19:57

I havent played EB, or any RTW for two or three months now. Everytime I get to a late game stage, the turns end up taking way too long, and I end up getting bored. If I could make it so I could autocalc more battles in the late game, the turns would progress more, and I could enjoy it. I dont want to try to do any more modding to it until 0.8 comes out. So I check in pretty often to see if a new build is out.

And after playing EB, any other mod I try to play just puts me right to sleep. So I'm ready for the new build! Woohoo!

tk-421

07-27-2006, 03:32

Is it just me, or there some sort of forum "culture" that does nothing but respond to polls? I looked at the poll results and saw a whole bunch of names I didn't recognize. They've been members for months (some years) and have no posts or maybe just one or two. I began looking through results of other polls and saw the same names. One guy (I'll leave out the name for privacy) joined the .org in November of 2004, has exactly zero posts, but responds to polls. Not that people should post a lot if they don't want to, but it just seems odd...

Alexander the Pretty Good

07-27-2006, 04:28

You don't need to think to vote in a poll. You do to make an even garbled post.

Avicenna

07-27-2006, 06:14

TK: They just can't bother to post, but do want to influence EB in their own favour. The silent fans.

Joeokar

07-27-2006, 07:26

What i got to say something or I am dumb. :no: What ever sweboz need more polish there recruitment is pretty bad outside of there general area.

Idomeneas

07-27-2006, 17:50

TK: They just can't bother to post, but do want to influence EB in their own favour. The silent fans.

I cant see how number of posts matters anyway. I mean you for instance have some thousands since this february that you joined the org. I guess you cut sleeping or something:laugh4: :laugh4:

-Praetor-

07-27-2006, 23:01

You don't need to think to vote in a poll.

Yeeeeeeh, democracy sucks http://www.twcenter.net/forums/images/smilies/emoticons/torch.gif

PS: Only when one`s side doesn`t win, off course

Magnificant me

07-28-2006, 02:17

I agree with some here, with a public biuld out there the remaining bugs will be rooted out and dealt with faster and the end product will be that much closer and that much better for it. I think an open beta kind of thing is in order here.

orwell

07-30-2006, 03:45

Unless it saps resources that could be put to making the game, as soon as the core features are complete and its touched up to EB standards, put it out. By opening it up to the public;

Bugs will probably be found quicker
Throwing the bone to the ravenous fans will settle them down for a while, and hopefully remove some sort of 'pressure' to release it soon.
Those who wish for a more complete game will wait just as long as if it was kept internal
New feedback based on a more relavant version than .74.

By keeping it internal;

You've limited the beta testers for the smaller bugs that won't absolutely destroy the game
Similtaneously maintain the title of Everlasting Beta and Quality Product
Leave all fans to wait including those who would be fine with the fact that this is still a beta, and no matter how buggy, is still their/my favorite mod.

I hope the team will take this into consideration when deciding, though its not a official poll.

P.S. My computer has returned to functioning for whatever reason, but my Rome cds killed themselves. As soon as I can get a copy I'll get back to learning scripting. I've got a new level of depth I want to see modded into agents, and some ideas for what Malrubius had planned for regions, environments, and historically important cities.