American busted doping in Tour De Wussie... [Archive]

Devastatin Dave

07-27-2006, 15:50

This is just breaking so i don't have a link. It looks like there was a high amount of testosterone found in his system. I wonder if its a high amount of testosterone compared to the Euros, in which would be more understandable!!!:laugh4:
Oh, found a link...
http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/tdf2006/news/story?id=2531225

Don Corleone

07-27-2006, 16:14

I think his mother summed it up best. Let's wait until we have some facts back on this. If when they do, it comes to light that he doped, he should be stripped of the title. If not, so be it.

By the way, I know the racing purists in Europe cannot stand that Lance Armstrong won once, let alone seven times... but produce a positive test result that shows he ever doped or EDIT drop it.

Sorry about that. I didn't realize how harsh that sounded until I read myself quoted by Dave. I was making a play off an old expression 'Put up or shut up'. No offense to anyone intended.

Devastatin Dave

07-27-2006, 16:32

I think his mother summed it up best. Let's wait until we have some facts back on this. If when they do, it comes to light that he doped, he should be stripped of the title. If not, so be it.

By the way, I know the racing purists in Europe cannot stand that Lance Armstrong won once, let alone seven times... but produce a positive test result that shows he ever doped or shut up.
Good to see you Don!!!
I agree, this will probably turn out to be another, "The American won, so lets fake some tests and spread rumors about it since our riders are sissy girls compared to the superior American males.":laugh4:

Seamus Fermanagh

07-27-2006, 16:37

Tour de Wussie?

Jeez Dave, its not my fave sport either but "wussie?"

What do they have to do, run a "tour" from Kandahar to Tel Aviv via Bagdad, Tikrit and Beirut to score enough points for you?:laugh4:

Don C has dealt excellently with the substance of the controversy.

Vladimir

07-27-2006, 16:42

I'm telling you it was beer doping. That's probably why he didn't show up for those other two races.

L'Impresario

07-27-2006, 16:43

I'm vaguely familiar with cycling, but even I had heard of the various scandals recently.

Speculation that Landis had tested positive spread earlier Thursday after he failed to show up for a one-day race in Denmark on Thursday. A day earlier, he missed a scheduled event in the Netherlands.

On the eve of the Tour's start, nine riders -- including pre-race favorites Jan Ullrich and Ivan Basso -- were ousted, implicated in a Spanish doping investigation.

The names of Ullrich and Basso turned up on a list of 56 cyclists who allegedly had contact with Spanish doctor Eufemiano Fuentes, who's at the center of the Spanish doping probe.

English assassin

07-27-2006, 16:46

I agree, this will probably turn out to be another, "The American won, so lets fake some tests and spread rumors about it since our riders are sissy girls compared to the superior American males."

Yeah, it could do. On the other hand I was watching the coverage of stage 16 when Landis blew it, and stage 17 when he made the most amazing comeback, and I for one am hoping that he is proved clean so that my memory of an incredible day's sport is unsullied.

Please don't tell any other Euroweenies or my membership of the satanlovers club may be revoked.

BTW is the Tour de France about the most hardcore sports event in the world, or what?

Spetulhu

07-27-2006, 16:59

Do you actually believe any of those guys are clean? Whole cycling stables go down every time the testers find out about a new doping method. :help:

Don Corleone

07-27-2006, 17:01

Do you actually believe any of those guys are clean? Whole cycling stables go down every time the testers find out about a new doping method. :help:

Despite every test known to committees that's been performed, nobody has yet to produce any credible test evidence showing that Lance Armstrong failed a screen. If you know of one the rest of us don't, by all means, share the results with us. Ugly rumour and speculation are just that.

English assassin

07-27-2006, 17:09

Do you actually believe any of those guys are clean? Whole cycling stables go down every time the testers find out about a new doping method. :help:

I'm a lawyer. They are clean til they are proved not clean in a fair process. Its just the way my mind works, I can't help it.

Devastatin Dave

07-27-2006, 17:16

I say let them dope it up. All this testing is just a wasted since they're just going to find another screen to cover it. Free the Dopers!!!

Don Corleone

07-27-2006, 17:18

You all will have to pardon DevDave. He's clearly getting his sports ethics lessons from Major League Baseball (couldn't resist).

Devastatin Dave

07-27-2006, 17:25

Ouch!!!:laugh4:

Dutch_guy

07-27-2006, 17:37

BTW is the Tour de France about the most hardcore sports event in the world, or what?

It most certainly is.

By the way, I know the racing purists in Europe cannot stand that Lance Armstrong won once, let alone seven times... but produce a positive test result that shows he ever doped or EDIT drop it.

Don't worry, only the French hate him for it ~;).

As for me, I don't believe he used anything Illegal to win the tour, he was simply the best and was able to control the entire Tour because of his great team - that's why he won, 7 times.

Anyway, on Topic,

Who knows why he didn't show up at the race, according to what I've read the pain his hip caused was to much for him to participate. And yes, I know the link to drug use is an easy one, but let's wait what he has to say on the matter.

:balloon2:

Louis VI the Fat

07-27-2006, 17:55

The whole thing begs for artificial means, what with having people ride a bicycle for three weeks, thousands of kilometers, uphill, in a blazing sun, hours on end. I don't think anybody has been clean in the Tour for decades and frankly, I don't care.

I actually agree with Dave. Just stop the charade and let them use their dope, as in baseball. The Tour is not a sport, it is medical science. Every bloody Tour there is a doping scandal, it is destroying the sport more than just being honest about it would.

Oh and Armstrong. I'm sorry, but, first, he's this 26 year old, average cyclists. Then he get's cancer, which is treated with all sorts of whacko sci-fi therapies. Then, all of a sudden, out of the blue, *poof* he's this superhuman sportsman. Not better than everybody else, but totally, utterly, completely beyond anything the world has ever seen. The difference between Lance and the second best rider being bigger than the difference between that second-best and me.

Now I'm all for fairy tales and stuff, and his story sure would make a nice Disney movie and all, but come on...
Things that are too good to be true usually aren't.

Don Corleone

07-27-2006, 18:05

Oh and Armstrong. I'm sorry, but, first, he's this 26 year old, average cyclists. Then he get's cancer, which is treated with all sorts of whacko sci-fi therapies. Then, all of a sudden, out of the blue, *poof* he's this superhuman sportsman. Not better than everybody else, but totally, utterly, completely beyond anything the world has ever seen. The difference between Lance and the second best rider being bigger than the difference between that second-best and me.

Now I'm all for fairy tales and stuff, and his story sure would make a nice Disney movie and all, but come on...
Things that are too good to be true usually aren't.

Louis, old friend, with all the tests Lance Armstrong was subjected to over the years, surely you can provide at least one verifably irregular result?

Ronin

07-27-2006, 18:20

Louis, old friend, with all the tests Lance Armstrong was subjected to over the years, surely you can provide at least one verifably irregular result?

I´m sure you know that at the same time that there are people working to make better dopping tests....there are people making better dopping drugs so that they don´t show up on the tests....

the guys that are caught are just the ones that fall behind on the scientific race going on here...:laugh4:

it is my opinion that the entire peloton must be on drugs.....these kind of feats just aren´t humanly and physically possible....

when I see a 300 pound mountain of muscle on the WWE I don´t need a test to be able to tell you that it wasn´t obtained by natural methods....when I look at what these guys do on the tour I feel the same way.

This isn´t to bad mouth Lance or anything....after all...if everyone is taking drugs....the guy that comes in in first place is still going to be the best of them...even if he´s taking them too.

I agree with what was said before...it would be better for the sport to just come clean and say they´re ok with it.

Don Corleone

07-27-2006, 18:29

Okay, well, if this is the standard we apply to suspicions, then I would like to announce my own foregone conclusion that I have recently reached:

All Europeans are psychologically ill.

Now, I don't have any proof for this statement, but that's because you're all wiley enough to outfox the psychologists in the diagnosis interview. As soon as they come up with new questions, you come up with new ways of answering them, so we can never really be certain of your sanity. I mean, come on, just look at you guys. Anybody can tell... and proven facts be damned, we all know you're unhinged loons. Every last one of you. The ones that actually get institutionalized are just the ones who didn't read the right website on how to keep up with the answers to avoid diagnois :laugh4: Let's just get it out in the open and quit denying it.

The nice thing about my foregone conclusion, and your own, is that we don't need to trouble ourselves with those annoying little fact thingys. We can just speculate away and let our imaginations take us where they will.

L'Impresario

07-27-2006, 18:40

All Europeans are psychologically ill.

What about second generation immigrants? Do Russians also fall into this category? Maybe it's the well-known "Urals effect", therefore that'd explain why the SU relocated its dissidents and factories (in WWII) to Siberia and generally towards the east.
Will the Turks suffer from this illness if they join the EU and become formally recognized as Europeans?

I'm afraid that they 're ill not because they 're Europeans, but being European is an illness. We 're on a good road here.

Devastatin Dave

07-27-2006, 18:50

Louis VI the Fat

07-27-2006, 19:10

Louis, old friend, with all the tests Lance Armstrong was subjected to over the years, surely you can provide at least one verifably irregular result?No, I can't provide a positive result, sue me. ~:)

Most of Armstrong's competitors have been found guilty. Now, what are the odds of Armstrong not only being way better than everybody else, but also being clean AND still being way better than all his dope-snorting competitors?

He would beat them all fair and square if nobody used dope, and he would beat them all if everybody used dope. But could he have beaten them all, nay, demolished them like he did, if he was clean and most everybody else was not? Sorry, but I don't think so.

Like Ronin said, if all are equally guilty, that means Lance is still the best. I won't take that away from him.

Geoffrey S

07-27-2006, 20:13

Off at a tangent, I'm all for equal doping.

Banquo's Ghost

07-27-2006, 20:54

All Europeans are psychologically ill.

Dammit, Don, don't you know that this is a state secret? How else do you think we came up with the European Onion? :mad:

Ronin

07-27-2006, 23:35

All Europeans are psychologically ill.

HEY HEY HEY!!!!

there´s no need for that kind of language!!!!!!!

poor european people are psychologically ill!!!!!

I´m........... excentric. :laugh4:

Ice

07-28-2006, 00:42

The French just hate Americans. Only explanation. :idea2: :sweatdrop:

Reverend Joe

07-28-2006, 05:42

Good to see you Don!!!
I agree, this will probably turn out to be another, "The American won, so lets fake some tests and spread rumors about it since our riders are sissy girls compared to the superior American males.":laugh4:

This is just breaking so i don't have a link. It looks like there was a high amount of testosterone found in his system. I wonder if its a high amount of testosterone compared to the Euros, in which would be more understandable!!!:laugh4:
Geez, Dave...you seem to be all out to prove your manliness, or at least the manliness of American men...

Do you harbor a secret love of European men? Come on, you can talk about it... you're amongst friends. ~:grouphug:

Devastatin Dave

07-29-2006, 15:45

Do you harbor a secret love of European men? Come on, you can talk about it... you're amongst friends. ~:grouphug:

Its the BO. Hygienically-challenged unbathed Euros simply make me all hot.:sweatdrop:

macsen rufus

07-29-2006, 17:15

All Europeans are psychologically ill.

We must be -- we sent people across one of the world's most inhospitable seas just to set up America. Nuts, total fruitbats, must be ...... :laugh4:

I reckon with regard to sports, why not just have two sections: Open and Restricted? In the open section do any damn thing you like to enhance performance, in the restricted -- well, unnatural enhancements are restricted, and it'll all be down to training and talent alone. Guess that won't stop ALL cheating, but severe penalties could be applied.... :skull:

Sasaki Kojiro

07-29-2006, 17:37

We must be -- we sent people across one of the world's most inhospitable seas just to set up America. Nuts, total fruitbats, must be ...... :laugh4:

I reckon with regard to sports, why not just have two sections: Open and Restricted? In the open section do any damn thing you like to enhance performance, in the restricted -- well, unnatural enhancements are restricted, and it'll all be down to training and talent alone. Guess that won't stop ALL cheating, but severe penalties could be applied.... :skull:

Why would anyone compete in the "open" section?

Spetulhu

07-30-2006, 05:18

Its the BO. Hygienically-challenged unbathed Euros simply make me all hot.:sweatdrop:

We're enlightened, we know people don't die from a little dirt. And a Russian Shower saves time when you're running late.

Goalie

07-30-2006, 06:22

Ahh, sterotypes, fun. Yea the US has kicked @$$ up there for the last decade or so. We send a guy with cancer to win it 7 times and then a guy whose hip is barely functional,(Not to take anything away from them or what they did, just looking at it sterotypically) that must make them feel pretty bad.

Louis VI the Fat

08-05-2006, 23:21

Looks like it's game over for Landis: Landis returns positive B sample (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/5233476.stm).

Let's see, in recent years teh Americans have send: a guy with cancer, a guy whose one leg is an inch shorter than his other, a guy who can only cycle with one leg, and a guy whose hip doesn't function and who'll get a hip replacement operation shortly after the Tour.

I'm sure they all make for brilliant marketing stories back home. But they are as credible as those chest-haired, record-breaking former East German female athletes.

I wonder what kind of Ubersportsman they will send next year. Hulk Hogan? The amazing legless cycling wonder? Strike's 96-year old granny?

orangat

08-05-2006, 23:57

Ronin

08-06-2006, 00:18

The article is a little inaccurate. Landis didn't test positive for high testosterone. He tested positive for exceeding an arbitrary threshold set for the epitest-test ratio.

Anti-doping labs should test or develop a test for the synthetic isotopes instead of relying on some arbitrary measure.

when this issue broke out last week i heard on the tv news that such a test does in fact exist....not sure if this is correct tough

Navaros

08-06-2006, 04:29

Anti-doping labs should test or develop a test for the synthetic isotopes instead of relying on some arbitrary measure.

I read something to the effect that they did find synthetic testosterone that would have had to have been ingested in that doping cheater.

He's a doping cheater. That's reality. No doubt about it.

orangat

08-06-2006, 04:36

when this issue broke out last week i heard on the tv news that such a test does in fact exist....not sure if this is correct tough

Well in that case top athletes will probably start using natural testosterone if they aren't already.

Don Corleone

08-07-2006, 13:51

Yep, everything I heard was that the testoserone he tested for was synthetic. And now that the results of the second test are in, time to strip him of the title. Dirtbag.

Louis VI the Fat

08-07-2006, 15:55

Dirtbag.Dirtbag...mwah, I dunno. Landis was close to winning the Tour, collapsed three days before the end, and then simply couldn't resist the temptation of an extra dose of testoteron midway during the Tour. Pity.

But hey, I've said it before, nobody rides the Tour on milk, steaks and an extra helping of pasta alone. All the riders are an experiment in pharmaceutics. Just like extreme bodybuilders, few, if any, achieved their results through natural means.

Two of the best riders, Basso and Ulrich, were disqualified before the Tour started. The winner was/will be stripped of the title. The whole thing has become a Tour de Farce.

Either the Tour must be toned down, so that it is possible to ride it 'natural'. Or we should accept that the riders are, like race cars, fine-tuned machines, the result of an exstensive staff of specialists. In formula 1, the best racing team wins too, having the best driver is but one part of it. Maybe that should be the future of cycling too.

English assassin

08-08-2006, 15:42

Although I have toyed with the idea we should allow juicing (maybe, in something like the tour, we could have a "clean" class and a juiced class) I don't think it would be ethical. Wouldn't we be condoning people doing quite dangerous things to their bodies for our entertainment?

Not that that stops me enjoying boxing. Hmm, this is difficult stuff.

Anyway, I for one am sorry Landis turned out not to be clean. The final mountain stage was an incredible sporting achievement. Too incredible to be true, as it now seems, and yet the pain he went through on the Tour is still real, and now for nothing.

Ah well. I was going to say I guess no one made him cheat, but in fact, in these team events, is even that true?

Call me a bleeding heart euroweenie but I feel sorry for him.

Devastatin Dave

08-08-2006, 18:06

Call me a bleeding heart euroweenie but I feel sorry for him.
Well, since we have your permission!!!:laugh4:

Ronin

08-08-2006, 18:21

Although I have toyed with the idea we should allow juicing (maybe, in something like the tour, we could have a "clean" class and a juiced class) I don't think it would be ethical. Wouldn't we be condoning people doing quite dangerous things to their bodies for our entertainment?

Even without taking drugs, one can take the line that high performance sports are neither normal or healthy...a human body is just not made to take this kind of abuse on such a regular basis.
So...even without drugs they still do pretty bad things to their bodies for out entertainment.

Papewaio

08-10-2006, 01:35

Either the Tour must be toned down, so that it is possible to ride it 'natural'. Or we should accept that the riders are, like race cars, fine-tuned machines, the result of an exstensive staff of specialists. In formula 1, the best racing team wins too, having the best driver is but one part of it. Maybe that should be the future of cycling too.

Why not just ride motorcycles instead then if it isn't about human natural ability?

France has a bad enough tongue-in-cheek reputation of rolling over and accepting defeat, I don't think by giving up and accepting steroids would really help with that perception.

Strike For The South

08-10-2006, 18:28

doc_bean

08-10-2006, 18:44

I consider cycling as much as a sport as I consider ice hockey is a form of figure skating. Do you have to be in great shape and an athlete to participate? You bet. Its racing, not a sport. Its as much as a sport as rednecks driving in circles for a couple in cars plastered with stickers for hours and crossing a line. :book:

So athletics aren't sports either ? :dizzy2:

Ice hockey, basketball, football and such are games, besides being sports, that doesn't mean cycling isn't a sport.

Louis VI the Fat

08-10-2006, 19:10

Why not just ride motorcycles instead then if it isn't about human natural ability?

France has a bad enough tongue-in-cheek reputation of rolling over and accepting defeat, I don't think by giving up and accepting steroids would really help with that perception.And there I was, hoping to go against the French reputation of basing their view of reality on opinion, instead of the reverse.

I was trying out this stuff that the rest of the world is so exited about. You know, about that 'if reality doesn't match your opinion, don't blame reality'. But I haven't quite got the hang of it yet. ~:mecry: