Run the French economy

[Banquo's Ghost]

This'll cheer some of you up - a game where you can get to run the French economy.

Cyber-budget (http://www.cyber-budget.fr/)

Conservatives - See for yourselves if you can get those cheese-eaters to work 27 hours a day without many of them dying or becoming maimed.
:smash: :whip:

(You'll need to read French, BTW).


Seriously, I think this is an excellent idea to encourage citizens to understand the choices a government has to make. You even have the press getting on your back! :smile:

[macsen rufus]

Damn, misread the thread title -- I wanted to RUIN the French economy....

[L'Impresario]

I think the most characteristic lesson regarding the French way of running things is that you aren't allowed to use a 3-letter name when the game starts:P

But it's a decent one, had the opportunity to learn a few financial terms in French that I hadn't bothered to look up before.

[rory_20_uk]

One in English? That way the other 99% of the world can use it.

~:smoking:

[Devastatin Dave]

Damn, misread the thread title -- I wanted to RUIN the French economy....
Don't worry, the French can do that on their own.:laugh4:

[Brenus]

Not only have you had to read French but to UNDERSTAND French… It isn’t about the French Economy but about French Finances. Basically how the State spend your taxes…:inquisitive:

“if you can get those cheese-eaters to work 27 hours a day without many of them dying or becoming maimed.” 27 hours per DAY… I want to see a tea-drinker or a hamburger-eater doing it…:laugh4:

“Don't worry, the French can do that on their own”: True, learning from USA and UK how to do it… Got a government which succeeded to ruin the country and increase unemployment in less time than Bush to ruin the USA… Well done to all Conservatives United…:2thumbsup:

[Crazed Rabbit]

You are aware that the US economy has been improving for several years, aren't you?

Crazed Rabbit

[Vladimir]

You are aware that the US economy has been improving for several years, aren't you?

Crazed Rabbit

Quiet you!!!

[Banquo's Ghost]

Not only have you had to read French but to UNDERSTAND French… It isn’t about the French Economy but about French Finances. Basically how the State spend your taxes…:inquisitive:

“if you can get those cheese-eaters to work 27 hours a day without many of them dying or becoming maimed.” 27 hours per DAY… I want to see a tea-drinker or a hamburger-eater doing it…:laugh4:

“Don't worry, the French can do that on their own”: True, learning from USA and UK how to do it… Got a government which succeeded to ruin the country and increase unemployment in less time than Bush to ruin the USA… Well done to all Conservatives United…:2thumbsup:

You're a bit too sensitive, Brenus, old fruit. I was making light of the conservative desire to change France into the Anglo-saxon model. 'Cheese-eaters' is a common term of disparagement which ignores the accomplishments of your country - and as my spoiler hoped to show, I am impressed that the French government tries to educate its citizens this way. It was a sideways poke at the conservative mind-set, not a dig at France.

BTW, the line '27 hours a day..' comes from an excellent satirical book, '1066 and All That - All the History You can Remember.' Terrifically British, it warps history into those bits one remembers vaguely from school.

For example (from memory): "The Industrial Revelation*. The industrial revelation was the discovery made by all the factory owners at once, that women and children could be worked 27 hours a day without many of them dying or becoming excessively maimed."

* Please no-one complain it's spelt wrong - it's a joke :smile:

[Samurai Waki]

I wouldn't put much confidence into the slowly re-emerging US Economy. Come a few more years and things now will look rather enviable... A Horrifying Crash-is-a-Comin' :end:

[thrashaholic]

...Got a government which succeeded to ruin the country and increase unemployment...

Yet another DIY economist who doesn't know or understand what they're talking about.

Employment isn't the be all and end all of an economy, in fact one shouldn't try to tamper too much in the labour market at all because any attempt to lower unemployent is inflationary (Phillips Curve - look it up) and in the long run employment will fall back to the natural rate, but the inflation will remain (rightward shift of the Phillips Curve). Consequently, the only way to remedy this problem is to expand the capacity of the economy, shifting the Phillips Curve back left so that the natural rate of unemployment is attained without inflationary pressure. This expansion in economic capacity can be attained in a number of ways, but one is through the liberalisation of markets, which is what Maggie did (or her economic advisors encouraged her to do) and that is why Continental Europe are in the doldrums economically, whilst Britain continues to be successful (New Labour are riding a nice Tory wave).

Too much state control or interference ruins the pluralism that makes market sytems effective. Mind you, untempered market systems can often manage to lose pluralism themselves. That's why government intervention can only really be justified in monopoly prevention (and correction of externalities if you're that way inclined).

[ShadesWolf]

But its in French

[GoreBag]

It's a little dry, but kind of impressive that the government would ask that this be done.

[L'Impresario]

Employment isn't the be all and end all of an economy, in fact one shouldn't try to tamper too much in the labour market at all because any attempt to lower unemployent is inflationary (Phillips Curve - look it up) and in the long run employment will fall back to the natural rate, but the inflation will remain (rightward shift of the Phillips Curve).

Just like fighting inflation isn't the the be-all, end-all, low unemployment doesn't mean higher inflation. Isn't it ironic, that keynesian dreadnaught, the Phillips Curve, was brought to serve monetarist approaches,albeit in its augmented form.
Truth be told, new-keynesian economics have greater appeal lately than during the most part of these 25-30 years. Ofcourse now you have economists that claim they have good models that take into account stagflation. But there are so many instances where reality proves them wrong, that one should wonder if they’d predict that the US would continue having low unemployment and low inflation since the 90s.

And to claim that the fanatic monetarists were able to promote financial rationalism after Keynes v1.0 was burried…hmm, this is more of a political than economical issue. Economic success is in the eye of the beholder. It’s a fine balance and expecting that privatizations will always be a positive thing, because people are rational, know how to construct the proper institutional framework and will do so, well that’s been proven many times over to be a folly (international reaganomics have helped increase the "outcry" against such practices, providing a nice definable target for the poorer ones).

[Brenus]

“You're a bit too sensitive”: Er, yes I am. But this Cheese-Eater goes directly on my nerves faster than sarin. Sorry.

“27 hours a day..' comes from an excellent satirical book,” Well, that the cultural difference, I never heard about it.

“The industrial revelation was the discovery made by all the factory owners at once, that women and children could be worked 27 hours a day without many of them dying or becoming excessively maimed." Like this one. The self inflicted slavery but workers who thought they were free… Good definition.

“Yet another DIY economist who doesn't know or understand what they're talking about.” Yet an other person who believe that economy is a independent from society: better to be a beggar in a rich country you have more bin to research for food…

“Too much state control or interference ruins the pluralism that makes market sytems effective”: Probably why we have more and more private monopolies than state one which control any aspects of ours lives and made HUGE benefits thank to the so-called free-market which concentrates more and more big industries and kills all small initiatives…

[Louis VI the Fat]

Nice find, Banquo.

Of course, as a kind gesture to our Anglosaxon friends, the French government translates a lot of its press-releases in English (http://www.minefi.gouv.fr/presse/dossiers_de_presse/budget/cyberbudget/ang/presentation.pdf). :beam:
It gives a lot of information about the game, but unfortunately the game itself is only in French.

I think this game is a good initiative by Jean-François Copé, the minister responsible for the budget. He faces a daunting task. On the one hand, the state deficit has not been below the three percent line since 2001. To the horror of budget-conscious citizens, despite clear European agreements, and at the expense of France's foreign prestige and trustworthiness.
On the other hand, the tax-burden already stands at an internationally very high 44%, thanks to a bloated public sector, and can't possibly be raised any higher.

His dilemma is:
Increasing the tax-burden is political suicide. The voters won't have it.
Decreasing spending is political suicide. The voters won't have it either. :no:

So the spoiled brats could do with a little budgetary education. I remember from a recent survey that some 75% of voters didn't even know the difference between national debt and national deficit. So this game will hopefully help lessen their educational deficit somewhat.

As for the game itself, it is a bit elementary. Though I got more things wrong than I care to admit. :shame:
I love the press comments, complete with the Canard. And the reaction from the opposition if you do manage to get most correct: 'Louis has a lot of right answers. Unfortunately, he asks the wrong questions'.

[Louis VI the Fat]

*Cheese-eater Louis stops nibbling his Ossau-Iraty Brebis from Fromagerie Agour in Helette(1) for long enough to post a reply http://matousmileys.free.fr/hamburger.gif *

Come on, Brenus. Banquo speaks French fluently. Plus he's a self-declared Francophile, not at all out to have a bash at France.
If you MUST take issue with 'cheese-eater', just give them rosbifs a good poke back, eh - they can take it. They love a good brawl but are a bit impatient with overly sensitive behaviour.

And in the event that you should fail to come up with a clever response, put your nose up in the air, raise your eyebrows a bit, sigh as if you're a bit bored, and treat them to some arrogant, pedantic expose about this or that. Let's say, for example, a snobbish expose about how Anglosaxon work ethics are incompatible with enjoying Pyrenees cheeses.

It never fails to irritate them. :balloon2:





(1) Rightfully voted the best cheese in the world.

But no, you won't find it in your local supermarket. It is produced only on a single family farm in the Pyrenees, in small quantities.

And no, you don't have time to go there. Spending two days to go check out divine cheeses is the sole privilege of those with six weeks paid holiday.

And even if you could go there, it wouldn't make a difference. Those with more than a 35-hour working week are condemned to a life of tv-dinners. They do not have the opportunity to develop the exquisite taste necessary for appreciating the finer things in life, like spending countless afternoons and evenings celebrating wine, cheese and good company.

[GoreBag]

Come on, Brenus. Banquo speaks French fluently. Plus he's a self-declared Francophile, not at all out to have a bash at France.
If you MUST take issue with 'cheese-eater', just give them rosbifs a good poke back, eh - they can take it. They love a good brawl but are a bit impatient with overly sensitive behaviour.

Whoa, whoa. People actually use the term 'rosbif'?

[AntiochusIII]

Whoa, whoa. People actually use the term 'rosbif'?What does that mean? I'm curious.

[Banquo's Ghost]

What does that mean? I'm curious.

Rosbif is a Gallic-accented play on 'roast beef'. The French quite rightly consider that the Brits only ever eat roast beef (with the abomination known as gravy) and thus use rosbif as a not-so-subtle dig at the culinary and cultural achievements of their dearly beloved neighbours.

:wink:

[Banquo's Ghost]

“You're a bit too sensitive”: Er, yes I am. But this Cheese-Eater goes directly on my nerves faster than sarin. Sorry.

“27 hours a day..' comes from an excellent satirical book,” Well, that the cultural difference, I never heard about it.

I should have posted more smilies, I guess. Especially when using a reference to a peculiarly British book.

The book ends, for example, with the end of the First World War - when it notes that "America was now Top Nation, and therefore history came to a ."

See, US readers would see this as 'history came to a period' (?) but the inventors of the language would know the punctuation mark as a 'full stop' :laugh4:


Louis, if I had the time in my schedule, I'd laugh :wink:. Let's do lunch.
:bow:

[GoreBag]

Rosbif is a Gallic-accented play on 'roast beef'. The French quite rightly consider that the Brits only ever eat roast beef (with the abomination known as gravy) and thus use rosbif as a not-so-subtle dig at the culinary and cultural achievements of their dearly beloved neighbours.

:wink:

Also that they only come to France to tan their pasty skins and broil under the sun. You are what you eat.

[Brenus]

“The French quite rightly consider that the Brits only ever eat roast beef”: Are you sure of that? I thought it was due to the fact that a rosbif (in French in the text) is a piece of meat not too cooked so it is red inside (colour of the traditional uniform of the English). For the same reason, in the past, one of the other nicknames for the English was “the lobsters” (red when boiled).:sweatdrop:
If you read French comics, like Asterix in Brittany, you will see that the idea of the English cooking is they boil everything (that also true in another comic “Clifton”).:2thumbsup:

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Psh. The problem with your economy is obviously cheese. You have these small family companies in the middle of mountains producing all the cheese. That can't sustain a country of millions!

Some sharp chedder for me, thanks.

[Banquo's Ghost]

“The French quite rightly consider that the Brits only ever eat roast beef”: Are you sure of that? I thought it was due to the fact that a rosbif (in French in the text) is a piece of meat not too cooked so it is red inside (colour of the traditional uniform of the English). For the same reason, in the past, one of the other nicknames for the English was “the lobsters” (red when boiled).:sweatdrop:
If you read French comics, like Asterix in Brittany, you will see that the idea of the English cooking is they boil everything (that also true in another comic “Clifton”).:2thumbsup:

You may be right. The explanation I gave was just what I have heard from French friends, not necessarily correct. :smile:

And yes, I thought about the boiling meat in Asterix in Britain. Problem with that was, the joke always confused me - to my knowledge, the Brits hardly ever boil meat of any sort (maybe gammon) - they stereotypically roast it. :confused:

[Brenus]

“Problem with that was, the joke always confused me”: That is the problem with stereotypes: they rarely linked to the truth but are still alive. But the mint sauce is real… And the rain (when no fog)… Asterix in Brittany is the best of the series…

[Louis VI the Fat]

Astérix chez les Bretons is the definitive work of reference on all things British. :laugh4:

Ils sont fous ces Bretons...https://img464.imageshack.us/img464/5421/asterixbo3.gif

[Louis VI the Fat]

Les insultes adressées aux Anglais (http://monsu.desiderio.free.fr/curiosites/anglais.html):


2. Des bouffeurs de viande

Devant la cuisine anglaise, il n'y a qu'un seul mot : « Soit ! » (Claudel)

Le succès du bifteck à partir de 1711 et son origine britannique a incité à assimiler l'Anglais à son plat. Ainsi les formes bifteck, beefsteak, bisteck , beafteck se rapportent aux Anglais à partir de 1836. Ce terme est vieilli en ce sens.

L'autre terme fréquent est rosbif à partir de la viande grillée à l'anglaise (1774). Les deux noms sont toujours ressentis comme d'origine anglaise, mais avec une orthographe francisée.

Ces deux termes se retrouvent de manière périphrastique dans des expressions complexes comme mangeur de viande à la menthe, sans doute par jeu de mots avec manque et mentir. Il s'agit surtout d'un retournement des termes anglais Frogs, Froggies, Frog Eaters pour désigner les Français comme mangeurs de grenouilles. La périphrase du buveur de thé n'est pas plus lexicalisée.I've heard all three explanations for the origin of rosbifs. The food, sunburn and uniforms. Personally, I think rosbif has had a multi-staged etymology.

Already in the 18th century, it was used as an insult by referring to the (perceived) lack of culinary refinement of the British. La cuisine anglaise: si c'est froid, c'est de la soupe, si c'est chaud, c'est de la bière.
Then, during the Napoleonic era, the meaning of the term 'rosbif' was expanded under influence from the red English uniforms, and came to not only refer to their eating habits, but also to the English themselves. Analogues to 'rednecks'.

Later on in the 20th century, as mass-tourism developed, the word was reinforced again, this time alluding to one of the two shades of colour Englishmen come in: pale and red.

[Banquo's Ghost]

La cuisine anglaise: si c'est froid, c'est de la soupe, si c'est chaud, c'est de la bière.

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

:2thumbsup: