Children Arrested, DNA Tested, Interrogated for Playing in a Tree

[Lemur]

This story (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=397240&in_page_id=1766&in_page_id=1766&expand=true) amused me, and I thought I'd bring it to the Org. After all, with the Middle East unpleasantness, it's nice to consider a simpler problem involving three children, a cherry tree, and a DNA test. (What exactly is wrong with you Brits?)

Children arrested, DNA tested, interrogated and locked up... for playing in a tree

By KHUSHWANT SACHDAVE, Daily Mail 22:27pm 23rd July 2006

To the 12-year-old friends planning to build themselves a den, the cherry tree seemed an inviting source of material.

But the afternoon adventure turned into a frightening ordeal for Sam Cannon, Amy Higgins and Katy Smith after they climbed into the 20ft tree - then found themselves hauled into a police station and locked in cells for up to two hours.

Their shoes were removed and mugshots, DNA samples and mouth swabs were taken.

Officers told the children they had been seen damaging the tree which is in a wooded area of public land near their homes.

Questioned by police, the scared friends admitted they had broken some loose branches because they had wanted to build a tree house, but said they did not realise what they had done was wrong.

Officers considered charging the children with criminal damage but eventually decided a reprimand - the equivalent of a caution for juveniles - was sufficient.

Although the reprimand does not amount to court action and the children do not have a

criminal record, their details will be kept on file for up to five years.

The parents of the children, who all live in Halesowen, West Midlands, say they are angry with police for treating their children as hardened criminals and accused officers of over-reacting.

The three, who have never been in trouble with the police before, were described as well-behaved and placid by their parents.

Amy's mother, Jacqueline, said her daughter was left so traumatised by the police action last month she refused to sleep in her bed for a week.

Miss Higgins, 37, an office manager, added: 'Amy was scared bucketloads to be locked up in a cell knowing murderers and rapists have been sat in the same cells. The police action was completely unbalanced. These were children playing in a tree.

'The information taken by the police will be held on record for five years and Amy is worried it could affect her going to college or university.'

Sam's father, Nicholas, 52, said: 'The children did not deserve to be treated in the way they were. A simple ticking-off by officers would have been sufficient.

'The children didn't realise they were doing anything wrong, they didn't deliberately set out to damage the tree.

'Sam's eyes were swollen and red when they let him out of the cell as he had been crying. He is a placid child and has never been in trouble before.

'When I got the phone call from the police to say Sam was in custody I thought he'd done something-like steal something from a shop. I couldn't believe it when he said all he had done was break some loose branches off a tree.

'To detain them, DNA them and treat them that way was simply cruel and an over-reaction by the police. Generations of children have played in that tree and my son and his friends won't be the first to have thought of building a tree den.'

Mr Cannon, who said Sam had difficulty sleeping shortly after the incident, has written to the police to complain about the action taken.

Superintendent Stuart Johnson, operations manager at Halesowen police station, said: 'I support the actions of my officers who responded to complaints from the public about "kids destroying" an ornamental cherry tree by stripping every branch from it, in an area where there have been reports of anti-social behaviour.

'A boy and two girls were arrested and received a police reprimand for their behaviour.

'West Midlands Police deals robustly with anti-social behaviour. By targeting what may seem relatively low-level crime we aim to prevent it developing into more serious matters.'

Rod Morgan, chairman of the Youth Justice Board for England and Wales, said the police action appeared to be unnecessary.

'It's my opinion that too many children are being criminalised for behaviour that could be dealt with informally by ticking them off and speaking to their parents.'

[Don Corleone]

Actually, it would appear Brittish police are taking a bad page from the playbook of their American counterparts... .not amusing at all.

This school of policing comes from Rudy Giuliani. Essentially, the police will lock you up and charge you on even the most minor of offenses... spitting in public, jay-walking, whatever. Then, when they need somebody to charge later, hey, you're a habitual offender. Notice the key term 'anti-social behaviour'. Translation: as far as the police are concerned, next time they need to round up youths, these three are the 'usual suspects'. Give me a freakin' break.

Somebody should have told Superintendent Stuart Johnson that this is a tactic American police use in heavy crime areas only, basically to have a pre-made history on visitors to crack dens and the like, not to brand everey last youth in small hamlet as a habitual offender.

[UglyandHasty]

Talk about a powertrip !!! That's sick, scarring children like that !

[Duke John]

Puh! I think I was 6-8 years or so when I was picked up by the police. My brothers and a few other kids were playing around a "dam" in a little stream. Police came and told that we shouldn't be doing that as it clogged up the stream or something. This particular dam we hadn't made, but it was reason enough for the police to put us in the police van and drive us to I don't where.

Somehow my dad caught hold of this and stopped the van and we were let out. Can't remember the exact details, I thought it was quite an experience, but according to my dad I was crying all along. We did get a little an excursion to the police station afterwards to make it up, so it was all good for me in the end. Over the years we continued to make tons more dams :tongue2:

[English assassin]

Possibly non UK readers are wondering why the children were DNA tested. Well, its not because the police have been watching too much CSI Miami. No, in the UK, if you are arrested, the police can take a DNA sample. Then, even if you are completely innocent of any offence (as opposed to being a dangerous tree damaging 12 year old) they can keep the sample for ever.

Ah, the UK, beacon of liberty.

Actually, this sucks, in the technical legal sense. Below 14 to establish any criminal offence, the prosecution has to prove the child knew what they were doing was seriously wrong (ie not just naughty). And:


the scared friends admitted they had broken some loose branches because they had wanted to build a tree house, but said they did not realise what they had done was wrong.

Doli incapax, my dear Plod.

Therefore no criminal offence, and there should have been no caution. No offence at all means no arrestable offence (and I would suggest no grounds for the police to reasonable assume an offence had been committed), therefore no power of arrest, and an action for wrongful arrest.

My advice: sue their asses.

Edit: further advice: I should stick to public law. The oh so liberal labour government abolished doli incapax in 1998. That's right, left leaning kids, the police can now bang up 10 year olds thanks to you. Can't have any of that centuries old legal protection getting in the way of Tone's modern Britain can we. Nice work.

[caravel]

Allow me to wave my rolled up Daily Mail repeatedly while gurning somewhat menacingly... :coffeenews:

Yea, seriously it is a stupid overreaction, but then if it was kids breaking the trees, and nothing was done, you'd have a whole lot of similar people complaining that "vandals" were getting off scot free...

The coppers probably went after an easy target, as usual, such as picking on drivers with dirty numberplates etc, etc. :eyebrows:

[InsaneApache]

Well plod will have a lot of time on his hands, what, with not being allowed to chase theives, muggers et al in case one of the little dears hurts himself whilst running/riding away.

My veiws on Bliar and his repressive government are well known in the backroom. Suffice to say, now that the chickens are coming home to roost, the mask has slipped. But hey, the Yanks love him. One can only hope the swine buggers off to the USA when he is prised out of power.

[Don Corleone]

Not for nothing, but what does Tony Blair have to do with a small town police department? Don't you have local councils that see to that sort of thing?

[English assassin]

Not for nothing, but what does Tony Blair have to do with a small town police department? Don't you have local councils that see to that sort of thing?

We have police authorities (West Midlands is pretty big though, it includes Birmingham) but they are not directly elected. And police forces have all sorts of perfomance indicators set centrally. What gets measured gets done. So you have the ridiculous situation where some poor lad gets the book thrown at him because his next door neighbour saw him using an air pistol in his own back garden, because thats a "firearms incident", looks good on the figures, and is a damn sight easier than catching a real gun toting criminal.

Hence the enthusiasm for a caution. That means not only did the police investigate criminal damage in this case, they got a result too. Score one for the clear up rate in the West Midlands. Citizens of Britain, you may sleep easy in your beds. Shame the statistics can't distinguish between frightened 12 year olds making a tree house and drug crazed 18 year olds smashing up a bus stop.

And of course it was Blair and not the police who decided that 10 year olds shold be subject to the full force of the criminal law.

[Vladimir]

Not for nothing, but what does Tony Blair have to do with a small town police department? Don't you have local councils that see to that sort of thing?

Ok I think I have it straight: Blair's not the head of state but he controls every aspect of life. He even decides whether or not to arrest 12 year olds. He and his government are responsible for everything wrong in the UK but he's not the head of government. And because of all this, American's love him? :inquisitive: I guess he was responsible for having that old lady fined for feeding pigeons too.

[InsaneApache]

Ok I think I have it straight: Blair's not the head of state but he controls every aspect of life. He even decides whether or not to arrest 12 year olds. He and his government are responsible for everything wrong in the UK but he's not the head of government. And because of all this, American's love him? :inquisitive: I guess he was responsible for having that old lady fined for feeding pigeons too.

I realise that this was posted in jest; you have, however unintenionally, hit the nail right on the head.

He thinks he's the president, but Madge is in the way. :laugh4:

Oh.... and he was responsible for the fine, he has his mucky fingers in every aspect of UK life. The mans a menace.

[Geoffrey S]

Read EA's post. Blair is responsible for basically setting quotas to be met in such a way that the statistic becomes more important than the actual offense.

Much the same can be seen in the screwed-up NHS. For instance, hospitals are graded on how many patients survive operations. No mention however would be made about how many of these patients were in life threatening conditions; so, a hospital that treats a large amount of cancer or burns patients would get a lower rating than a hospital that sets more breaks in bones. Again, this is due to quotas influencing the quality of the service and becoming more important than the actual service. In the case of police, this means police pursuing easy targets in favour of actual criminals.

[Red Peasant]

Please, don't feed our god-fearing, Tory members, they do get very excited and extremely irrational at the mention of Blair.

Anyway, kids are evil, lock'em all up :laugh4: :laugh4:

[The_Doctor]

I can just imagine InsaneApache or EA watching TV and then Blair appears on the screen and they get up and scream

BLAAAAAAIIIIIIRRRRRR

[Vladimir]

I realise that this was posted in jest; you have, however unintenionally, hit the nail right on the head.

He thinks he's the president, but Madge is in the way. :laugh4:

Oh.... and he was responsible for the fine, he has his mucky fingers in every aspect of UK life. The mans a menace.

Ahh, good. No offense intended. Just the British system of governance is a bit more, informal than I'm used to. I think your Bill of Rights equivalent spans several centuries correct?

[Crazed Rabbit]

As I said in that thread about fining old women for feeding pigeons, the police need something to do between watching helmetless scooter thieves ride off and giving cautions to burglars.

And it makes perfect sense: they get it on the record that they've caught some criminals, without actually having to do the hard work of catching real criminals. And the time spent taking DNA samples and throwing them in cells is time not spent doing real policing.

Crazed Rabbit

[English assassin]

I think your Bill of Rights equivalent spans several centuries correct?

Sort of. We don't really have a Bill of Rights but you could say that acts that set out important civil liberties began with Magna Carta (1215) went by way of, say, Habeas Corpus (1697) and came up to date with eg the Human rights act (1998), so if you wanted to assemble a body of UK "rights" law you would in theory need to span 800 years.

In practice of course you rarely need to go back anything remotely like that far, and only a lunatic would arrive in court citing Magna Carta (and they do. The Acts of Union are another sure sign of a madman.)

[Tribesman]

In practice of course you rarely need to go back anything remotely like that far, and only a lunatic would arrive in court citing Magna Carta (and they do. The Acts of Union are another sure sign of a madman.)
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: I was one of those madmen twice (magna carta) and it worked , (actually that long time muppet Tony Benn told me it was a good approach coupled with the questioning of the validity of the mandate for reforming the rates system) .
Though to be fair it was the challenge to the figures they had used that clinched it .
But your use of the word madman means that I could have challenged them on the third line open (there were only 3 options available to challenge the charge) and that was eligibilty , insanity meant that you were not eligible for Poll Tax .:2thumbsup:

[Pannonian]

But your use of the word madman means that I could have challenged them on the third line open (there were only 3 options available to challenge the charge) and that was eligibilty , insanity meant that you were not eligible for Poll Tax .:2thumbsup:
Apparently the population of the UK dropped significantly in 1990.

[English assassin]

But your use of the word madman means that I could have challenged them on the third line open (there were only 3 options available to challenge the charge) and that was eligibilty , insanity meant that you were not eligible for Poll Tax

Unfortunately its about 15 years too late, but at last we have found a completely bomb proof argument against paying the poll tax. Either you are right about Magna Carta, or you are mad even to have considered it. Submitted in green ink and block capitals, CC the Queen, and you can kiss your polll tax bill goodbye for ever.

No disrespect to Tony Benn, who I have a lot of respect for, but he's not complete sane huimself is he....mind you at least he believed in something which is more than can be said for his son.

[Tribesman]

Unfortunately its about 15 years too late, but at last we have found a completely bomb proof argument against paying the poll tax. Either you are right about Magna Carta, or you are mad even to have considered it. Submitted in green ink and block capitals, CC the Queen, and you can kiss your polll tax bill goodbye for ever.

Thats the thing , at the start they sent me the bill , then the summons , then came the court appearance which the prosecution ended by asking for an adjournment , then nothing till next year when thet sent a new bill , followed by a new summons ,then a new court appearance then they asked again for another adjournment , then nothing at all , they didn't even bother sending the bill after that , and they never got a penny for the first 2 years .
The key was not the legality of the tax , it was the figures they used to set the level of the tax , if the tax is not correctly worked out it is an invalid demand , the proportion they had set aside for non payment was far too short , the ever increasing interest rates at the time made a joke of their borrowing estimates , plus the delays and then reductions in central funding completely screwed them .
But the Magna Carta was worth it just for the public galleries reaction and the magistrates losing it and clearing the public out with riot police:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

No disrespect to Tony Benn, who I have a lot of respect for, but he's not complete sane huimself is he....mind you at least he believed in something which is more than can be said for his son.
Yeah I used to think he was alright , man of convictions and all that , met him a few times and decided he is just another muppet .:shrug:

[caravel]

The madness does not end here however: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/5233262.stm


A group of youngsters has fallen foul of the law for playing hopscotch.

West Midlands Police community support officers asked parents in Spring Street in Halesowen to remove chalk markings after complaints about them.

Several children were involved in the games resulting in several markings on the pavement.

Imagine the scenario:


...Mr Caravel was arrested in a police raid on his residence in the early hours of the morning. Police discovered 100kg of chalk in his shed with an estimated street value of 10p per stick. Mr Caravel had been supplying local schoolchildren with the substance for months. A Police spokesmen hailed this as "a landmark breakthrough in the ongoing fight against hopscotch abuse". Local resident Mr I. Moanalot said that he was "very happy that the villains had been aprehended" and that the streets were "much safer now", but then remarked that the legal system was "much too soft" and he wouldn't be surprised if Caravel only received "a paltry 100 life sentances" and that the hopscotch abusers would probably be "back on the streets in less than 3 years".

[BDC]

Ah Britain under new Labour. Proto-Stalinistic state.

[Vladimir]

Hmm, something is fishy about this one. 14 is a little old to be playing hopscotch. Hopintomyknickers would be more like it. :eyebrows:

Honestly; where do you find the cops that enforce this kind of madness? "I didn't see nuffin'." would be my response to that.

[edyzmedieval]

This goes way over weird. :inquisitive:

[caravel]

Ah Britain under new Labour. Proto-Stalinistic state.

http://mysite.orange.co.uk/caravel/images/as270a.jpg

[InsaneApache]

M'lud, I rest my case. :laugh4:

[Blodrast]

Lol, that was really funny, Caravel - thank you !
It _is_ really absurd... how can it possibly bother anybody that children draw some crap on the pavement ?!
And, ya know, the tree-thingie is so absurd from even more points of view: we're deforesting millions of acres per year, perfectly legal and in agreement with the law, but when a bunch of kids break some branches of a (one) tree, it's "vandalism"... :inquisitive:

Hypocrisy and craziness :end:

[caravel]

...but when a bunch of kids break some branches of a (one) tree, it's "vandalism"... :inquisitive:

Hypocrisy and craziness :end:

Then the following day the local council tree butchers surgeons turn up and hack the thing down to a stump because: "tree vandals may fall and injure themselves while vandalising" or some such nonsense. :inquisitive:

[InsaneApache]

Conkers.