View Full Version : Another Corrupt Congressman Steps Down -- Do We Care Anymore?
So many bribes, so little time. Are we still able to care about the cesspool of bribery, influence-peddling and quid pro quo lobbying? Do we care anymore? Should we care anymore? Details. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5253542.stm)
Key Republican quits amid scandal
A leading US Republican lawmaker facing corruption allegations has said he will not run for re-election in November.
Ohio congressman Bob Ney said he would stand down from the seat he has held for 12 years because of his family.
But the Democrats, who put the focus on Mr Ney as part of their election effort to paint the Republicans as corrupt, said he had been forced out.
Prosecutors say Mr Ney took gifts and trips at the expense of disgraced lobbyist Jack Abramoff. He denies it.
"Ultimately this decision came down to my family. I must think of them first, and I can no longer put them through this ordeal," Mr Ney said in a statement.
"Congressman Ney has done nothing wrong, and there is no credible basis to charge him with a violation of the law," his lawyers Mark Tuohey and William Lawler said in a statement accompanying his announcement that he would stand down.
But the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee pounced on the news of Mr Ney's withdrawal.
It called him an example of "the culture of corruption in Washington".
Link to scandal
His former chief of staff Neil Volz pleaded guilty earlier this year to charges of conspiring to corrupt Mr Ney and other members of Congress.
Mr Ney has been ordered to testify in court but has not been charged with any wrongdoing.
The case concerns his links to Abramoff, who pleaded guilty in January to conspiracy to bribe public officials and to other influence-peddling crimes.
The former Republican leader in the House of Representatives, Tom DeLay, has also said he is stepping down in the face of links to Mr Abramoff.
The Democrats are fighting a court battle to keep him on the ballot for technical reasons.
They are hoping to capture 15 seats in order to take control of the lower house of Congress in November's elections.
Pannonian
08-07-2006, 23:20
Is he any relative of Michel?
Alexander the Pretty Good
08-08-2006, 01:11
Lemur, sort of shooting them all, what can we do? We can't kick enough of them out legally; the system works far too favorably for incumbents. And it is the system that generates the corruption.
Lemur, sort of shooting them all, what can we do? We can't kick enough of them out legally; the system works far too favorably for incumbents. And it is the system that generates the corruption.
But the Democrats, who put the focus on Mr Ney as part of their election effort to paint the Republicans as corrupt, said he had been forced out.
Good, except for that. This isn't a party issue. One is just as bad as the other. I hope they catch more of these scum bags.
but...isn´t that what being a congressman is all about?:oops:
Ironside
08-08-2006, 09:01
but...isn´t that what being a congressman is all about?:oops:
Yes, but he failed the competence test. ~;)
Banquo's Ghost
08-08-2006, 09:17
Hey, at least some of your corrupt politicians step down.
Here in the Emerald Isle, we give them State Funerals (http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0613/haugheyc.html).
:shame:
What crime has he been charged with?
Dear Joker85, if you would just click on the spoiler tag, you will be pleased and astonished to find that the entire article is prepared for your delectation. Feast on this banquet of words, prepared specially for you!
Dear Joker85, if you would just click on the spoiler tag, you will be pleased and astonished to find that the entire article is prepared for your delectation. Feast on this banquet of words, prepared specially for you!
I guess my post went over your head and you took it as literal. Ok, we'll do it the easy way:
"He has not been charged with any crime, yet he's labeled guilty before he's been proven so by political hacks such as yourself".
Happy?
My deepest apologies for failing to appreciate your wit, Joker. It was all too easy to think from your one-sentence post that you hadn't RTFA.
If the man is utterly innocent, why is he stepping down? It certainly smells bad, you have to admit. It's along much the same lines as, "Michael Jackson may have paid a family millions of dollars because he was innocent, but it seems unlikely."
I've been called a political hack! Woo-hoo! It was about time somebody tried that one. If I've been elevated to hackdom, then it's time for me to get my own blog. But first let me know what my hack positions are. Am I a leftist or rightist hack?
My deepest apologies for failing to appreciate your wit, Joker. It was all too easy to think from your one-sentence post that you hadn't RTFA.
If the man is utterly innocent, why is he stepping down? It certainly smells bad, you have to admit. It's along much the same lines as, "Michael Jackson may have paid a family millions of dollars because he was innocent, but it seems unlikely."
I've been called a political hack! Woo-hoo! It was about time somebody tried that one. If I've been elevated to hackdom, then it's time for me to get my own blog. But first let me know what my hack positions are. Am I a leftist or rightist hack?
Why is he stepping down?
Ohio congressman Bob Ney said he would stand down from the seat he has held for 12 years because of his family.
You're free to assume that's a lie and it's really because he's guilty. Rather than that the controversy/scandal is too much for him whether he is innocent or guilty. But your assumptions are not evidence.
My point is that the man hasn't even been charged, let alone convicted. So when I see a thread "corrupt congressman steps down", well, that tells you about the author of that thread.
Could be he guilty? Of course, I have no way of knowing. I don't declare him "utterly innocent" and I don't declare him "corrupt".
Why is he stepping down?
Ohio congressman Bob Ney said he would stand down from the seat he has held for 12 years because of his family.
You're free to assume that's a lie and it's really because he's guilty. Rather than that the controversy/scandal is too much for him whether he is innocent or guilty. But your assumptions are not evidence.
It's pretty rare that a person embroiled in a scandal who steps down doesn't cite his or her family as the reason. I'll take that with a Morton's shaker of salt.
My assumptions aren't evidence? Fantastic bit of news, that. Look, Joker, just read up on the case. And put it in the context of one of the most corrupt Congresses ever. I am not a lawyer, the Org isn't a court of law, you aren't an intrepid reporter, and nothing we post back here will make the slightest bit of difference to this case. And if you think anything can be "proved" in the Backroom, try telling Navaros about evolution.
As for your fevered speculation about my character, I don't quite see where it's coming from, or why it's appropriate. Perhaps you now have enough evidence to prove something important about me? I'm all a-tingle to find out.
[edit]
I have to run off for the remainder of the morning and most of the afternoon, bit I look forward to chatting with you further.
It's pretty rare that a person embroiled in a scandal who steps down doesn't cite his or her family as the reason. I'll take that with a Morton's shaker of salt.
My assumptions aren't evidence? Fantastic bit of news, that. Look, Joker, just read up on the case. And put it in the context of one of the most corrupt Congresses ever. I am not a lawyer, the Org isn't a court of law, you aren't an intrepid reporter, and nothing we post back here will make the slightest bit of difference to this case. And if you think anything can be "proved" in the Backroom, try telling Navaros about evolution.
As for your fevered speculation about my character , I don't quite see where it's coming from, or why it's appropriate. Perhaps you now have enough evidence to prove something important about me? I'm all a-tingle to find out.
Sorry, I wasn't speculating on your character (if it came accross that way). What I meant with "it tells you about the author", is that it tells me about your political tempermant. That was in response to your comment about being called a hack.
Also, whether it's on the internet or not, declaring someone guilty of a crime who hasn't even been charged (forget convicted) with that crime is the same as doing it anywhere else.
As I've said, he could be guilty, he could be innocent. You're free as an American to believe he's guilty, but remember what started this. I pointed out that he hasn't been charged with anything, and that your assumptions that he was guilty shouldn't be enough for you to create a thread declaring "corrupt congressman steps down".
Pointing out that this is not a court of law and I am not a reporter seems to be rather obvious, what does that have to do with what I've said? Am I only allowed to have that opinion in a courtroom?
Banquo's Ghost
08-08-2006, 15:39
Pointing out that this is not a court of law and I am not a reporter seems to be rather obvious, what does that have to do with what I've said? Am I only allowed to have that opinion in a courtroom?
No, I think Lemur was saying that the dictum 'innocent until proven guilty' is applicable in law, but not in the Backroom where we can lynch anyone we like on the flimsiest of links.
:hanged:
It's a good job conservatives never do that, otherwise we'd never get anywhere. :wink:
Blodrast
08-08-2006, 20:16
Joker, I think (and this is only my opinion, I may well be wrong) that most of the time, and especially in politics, it's your reputation that matters, not the truth.
Once you've been painted and labeled and pointed fingers at, it matters little that later on you're proven innocent. The dirt has already stuck to you, and it's best to step down, and, sometimes, perhaps re-emerge a few years later.
To give a couple of examples, take the Clinton-Lewinsky blow, errr, incident. It wouldn't have mattered if in the end it turned out that they didn't have sex, the scandal was too huge already. Same with, for instance, a priest accused of abusing a child - it's little good that in the end it turns out the priest was innocent, his reputation is already destroyed.
Having said all that, though, let me point out that I don't know what exactly this dude has done. I don't mean it in the sense of Lemur's RTFA, I mean it in the sense that, perhaps (and I'm wildly speculating here - but it's the backroom, so it's okay :2thumbsup: ) he is involved in more stuff than he'd like to become public, and by stepping down he avoids further investigations which may reveal far more unpleasant things, which he'd prefer remain unknown.
rory_20_uk
08-09-2006, 12:01
If a Congressman with 12 years of experience can't hide bribes / gifts he's received there's something wrong.
Civil courts work on the balance of probability, not absolutes and so it is a lot easier to convict. Even so I'm sure that Congressmen keep their tracks well covered.
~:smoking:
Update: (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5350222.stm)
US congressman agrees guilty plea
A top US Republican lawmaker has agreed to plead guilty in a high-profile case involving corruption and bribery.
Mr Ney is the first lawmaker to be charged over the lobbying efforts of Jack Abramoff, who has already pleaded guilty to bribery.
Prosecutors say he took gifts and trips at Mr Abramoff's expense in exchange for backing laws to help his clients.
Mr Ney announced last month that he would not stand for re-election after 12 years representing his district.
In a statement on Friday, he admitted having made "serious mistakes".
He added that he had realised he was dependent on alcohol, but said he accepted "full responsibility" for his actions.
He said the agreement he reached with federal prosecutors on Wednesday would enable him to accept responsibility for what he had done and to "start repairing the damage" he had caused.
Gambling and golf
Mr Ney's former chief of staff Neil Volz pleaded guilty earlier this year to charges of conspiring to corrupt Mr Ney and other members of Congress.
Mr Volz went to work with Mr Abramoff after leaving Congress.
Unconfirmed reports say Mr Ney has admitted to accepting trips to play golf in Scotland, to gamble in New Orleans, and to holiday in New York, all entirely or partially at Mr Abramoff's expense.
He may be best known internationally for leading the House effort to rename French fries as "freedom fries" in the wake of French opposition to the US-led war in Iraq.
Mr Abramoff pleaded guilty in January to conspiracy to bribe public officials and to other influence-peddling crimes.
The former Republican leader in the House of Representatives, Tom DeLay, has also said he is stepping down in the face of links to Mr Abramoff.
Blodrast
09-15-2006, 20:46
well, I guess that's good news, and kinda encouraging. Gives you some little hope that maybe all hope is not lost. Maybe.
yesdachi
09-15-2006, 21:44
A political figure will often step down rather than run again and suffer a humiliating loss.
Crazed Rabbit
09-15-2006, 22:17
You talk about corrupt politicians as if they were the exception, Lemur.
Also, it'd be nice to catch every one of them and sentence them to hard and meaningless labor ("scrub those rocks, faster, dangit!"), but we can't in the current system. I want term limits, dangit! And I want that scum Kennedy (and his more recently blatantly scum son) thrown out!
Crazed Rabbit
You talk about corrupt politicians as if they were the exception, Lemur.
I did? When?
Crazed Rabbit
09-15-2006, 22:33
Eh, I don't know actually, it was just trying to a witty attack against politicians.
Didn't work out, obviously.
Crazed Rabbit
Well, sorry I missed the joke. I've done that a few times lately -- probably because of my advanced age. Old lemurs aren't always clever lemurs.
For what it's worth, looks like Ney's guilty plea is splashing dirt on some other admin figures. Details (http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/001539.php):
Ney admitted (http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/docs/bob-ney-charges/?resultpage=12&) to arranging a January, 2003 meeting with Mel Martinez, then Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, to "[advance] the interests of Abramoff's Native American Indian Tribal clients."
Ney told Martinez that his "number one priority as the newly installed Chairman of the Housing Subcommittee was Native American Indian Tribal housing," according to the plea.
Martinez has said he can't recall the meeting.
But here's Martinez's problem. He's said that he never met wtih Abramoff while heading HUD; but clearly Ney was acting as a kind of lobbyist for Abramoff, who was trying to win HUD funds for his Indian clients.
Reverend Joe
09-17-2006, 05:29
Edited to remove whiskey-induced philosophy.
That just gives you hope for the future. heheheheeee
Ney pleads guilty after finishing alcohol rehab. What is it with boozing Republican congressmen? :inquisitive:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/13/AR2006101300169.html
Rehab is for quitters!
Seamus Fermanagh
10-14-2006, 02:47
Wouldn't it be more practical to "sticky" this thread? Since some level of malfeasance seems chronic (both sides of the aisle), it would save us time....
Ney pleads guilty after finishing alcohol rehab. What is it with boozing Republican congressmen? :inquisitive:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/13/AR2006101300169.html
Rehab is for quitters!
Don't forget about Patrick Kennedy...
Rehab is for politicians who want to draw attention from their real indescretions.
Two phrases you can expect from any public figure who just got caught doing something awful:
They want to spend time with their family.
They're entering rehab.
Sometimes they get creative and list both, but usually it's either/or.
Strike For The South
10-14-2006, 20:26
Why cant we shoot them? I'm all for taking a page out of Thomas Jeffersons handbook.
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.