View Full Version : Total War Newsblast - RELIGION in MII TW
DukeofSerbia
08-12-2006, 11:29
SEGA announced how religion will work in MII TW. There are also five high quality screenshots.
There are sections about priests, heresy, Pope, Crusades and Jihads.
http://www.sega.com/newsblast/tw0107/
Woad Warrior
08-12-2006, 12:08
What is that holy wagon thing in the last screenshot? The second unit card from last.:inquisitive:
SpencerH
08-12-2006, 12:11
What is that holy wagon thing in the last screenshot? The second unit card from last.:inquisitive:
It's kinda an "Arc of the Covenant" weapon that fires lightning like in the movie Indiana Jones.
Leet Eriksson
08-12-2006, 12:14
A jihad can now be used offensively!
So whats stopping players from turning a factions major production hubs into a muslim city and then announcing a jihad there?
What is that holy wagon thing in the last screenshot? The second unit card from last.
Those wagons increase morale for the entire army apparently. And not just the units closer to the general.
Lord Ovaat
08-12-2006, 12:26
It's kinda an "Arc of the Covenant" weapon that fires lightning like in the movie Indiana Jones.
I really, really, really, really hope you're joking. You are joking, right? Please say your're joking, even if you're not. :wall: Maybe it just inspires the troops? Maybe it's an ambulance? Yeah, that's what it is. An ambulance. ...........Right?
What is that holy wagon thing in the last screenshot? The second unit card from last.:inquisitive:
Seems to be a crusader version of the Italian Carroccio but with a cross instead of a city's banner. Most likely increases army morale.
CBR
edyzmedieval
08-12-2006, 13:00
I can't wait to see cannon elephants. :grin:
Nothing new about religion. We already knew it.
cutepuppy
08-12-2006, 17:35
Seems to be a crusader version of the Italian Carroccio but with a cross instead of a city's banner. Most likely increases army morale.
CBR
exactly my thought. There are some references to crusader armies using a wagon with a large cross placed on it. (notably the battle of Hattin)
I got the impression from that info that crusades will no longer be declared by actual factions. Rather, the Pope calls for one on a certain target and all Catholic factions then have the choice to join by creating their own crusader armies and sending them off. Whoever gets there first takes the province. This is a bit different from MTW, where factions were there ones who initiated a crusade. Assumably, declining the Pope's call to arms will result in a lowered standing with him.
ChewieTobbacca
08-12-2006, 19:40
What are the factions in game with relations to the pope as seen from that standing one?
What are the factions in game with relations to the pope as seen from that standing one?
I see France, England, Poland, HRE, Denmark, Hungary, Spain, Portugal, Venice, Milan and Scotland.
There is one faction symbol I don't know, the one in between Venice and Milan.
Edit, Oh wait it is Sicily.
The picture of the English crusader army in the Holy Land is interesting - I wonder how it got there when England has only 3 provinces and has little knowledge of other areas (no sign of an overland trail to the Holy Land)? Maybe it's just a "cheat" shot, not in-game.
Little Legioner
08-12-2006, 21:53
What about other religions? Orthodox, Muslim? We see only Catholic religion in reviews or interviews. Pope is a important figure of medieval age i agree that but he was not everything.
Nizari or Hashashins were a great danger for Seljuk Empire also they killed one of the grandest vizier of Islamic realm. Nizam ul Mulk ( Order of the State ) They were not ordinary assasins or with a popular title "terrorists". They had a unique blasphemous religional ideology. And plus Shia and Sunni conflict cause many battles and triggered many political conflicts. Ottomans and Safavid Persians fought for a century. There were a Caliph in Bagdad until Mongols kill him. At the end Sultan Selim captured the title of the Caliph from Egypt Mamluks. I may continue but thats enough.
I'm trying to say Christian and Muslim realm of medieval ages reflects many common points as well as differences.
poo_for_brains
08-12-2006, 22:06
An increased movement rate for crusader armies is mentioned: this may have something to do with it, although i myself couldn't explain how.
Darth Nihilus
08-12-2006, 22:46
I like the idea that crusades in this MTW2 will actually be more of a real event. It always bugged me how in the original crusades would be called every other turn by factions on the map. One thing that I am wondering is regarding who doesn't reach the crusade objective first. For instance, if I'm Scotland and I am one of seven factions that join the crusade and I'm almost there but another faction accomplishes the objective, what then? Does my large crusade army disband, or do I suddenly have a huge army sitting potentially in the lands of some random faction? If the army disbands, that would probably make the most sense to me, but if it doesn't then that could potentially cause problems such as having some huge army of yours, or another faction's sitting in their allies land.
poo_for_brains
08-12-2006, 22:57
Well...if you have ehough influence with the Pope you can get him to call another one somewhere nearby, otherwise, I reckon that all the religious troops you have accumulated will start to drift away (like in MTW1 when you went into a province with low zeal)
Zalmoxis
08-13-2006, 00:24
What about the Orthodox religion (since I plan on playing as the Byzantines)? All you know is that you'll have priests and churches, but nothing else that is useful, cutting the interesting part out of the religion feature.
Myrddraal
08-13-2006, 02:19
I didn't think that Othodox countries ever had 'official' holy war... What else can be included which isn't standard?
I think the crusades system looks good, and jihads can still only be called against populations with high muslim population levels which means once-muslim provinces (good) or provinces which have had tons of religious characters stirring trouble (which I don't have a problem with)
I would like to know what happens to left over crusader armies though...
DukeofSerbia
08-13-2006, 09:44
From third part of text about Crusades:
The faction that captures the target the first will gain considerable prestige and wealth, as well as significantly boosting its standing with the Pope.
“Good old” Senate is coming back as Pope. Three Roman families are replaced with 12 (Roman) Catholic factions and Senate’s missions are replaced with Crusades.
And it seems that there will be the new religious character. This is from part about religion:
Religion can be affected by religious characters such as priests, heretics, inquisitors and witches, religious institutions like churches and even natural drifting.
Witches?! http://smiles.zy.cz/2.gif
In section about priests I found this:
Over time priests build up their levels of piety. Eventually, senior Catholic priests can be recognized by the Pope and get elected to the Collage of Cardinals.
So, there will be not any more bishops for Roman Catholic factions. Senior priest becomes Cardinal. http://smiles.zy.cz/585.gif Does anybody knows can be Roman Catholic priest promoted to be bishop. In Orthodox Churches only monk can become bishop.
And why there is no higher hierarchy of Orthodox Church (from original MTW)?
screwtype
08-13-2006, 10:38
There appears to be an awful lot of artillery in this game. I sure hope the AI isn't going to be building scads of the stuff, this is after all supposed to be the Medieval period not frickin' World War II.
Furious Mental
08-13-2006, 11:37
I am wondering how religious troops will be recruited. Perhaps in a similar way to mercenaries.
Leet Eriksson
08-13-2006, 20:59
I am wondering how religious troops will be recruited. Perhaps in a similar way to mercenaries.
If CA will use the Medieval method in the first game, then they will automatically join for free, and as you move your crusade more join in more zealous areas.
Crusader Invasion
08-13-2006, 21:04
SEGA announced how religion will work in MII TW. There are also five high quality screenshots.
There are sections about priests, heresy, Pope, Crusades and Jihads.
http://www.sega.com/newsblast/tw0107/This is the Newsletter that came out last week.
I like the Papal standings thing pretty cool.
Myrddraal
08-13-2006, 21:15
Priests can become bishops in the Catholic church, and eventually a priest may be pope.
I hope they include bishops as a level of priest between priest and cardinal, and I hope they include different levels for all the religions.
I like the papal elections. Though I don't know how historical it is, it adds a new area of politics to be explored, and adds weight to what the Pope asks. There are real benefits this time round, if you can influence the pope, you can ask him for favours. Sounds good.
EDIT: Did anyone else notice the farms? Infinately better than those strange photos they had in rome
Kourutsu
08-13-2006, 21:54
Wow. They really got detailed with religion this time; can't wait to run my cardinal and the assassinate all the other candidates.
Three more months. Just three more months!
DukeofSerbia
08-14-2006, 11:23
Priests can become bishops in the Catholic church, and eventually a priest may be pope.
Thanks for answer.
I hope they include bishops as a level of priest between priest and cardinal, and I hope they include different levels for all the religions.
It was better in original MTW as bihops are more influental than priests.
EDIT: Did anyone else notice the farms? Infinately better than those strange photos they had in rome
It occurs in several screenshots before this one. Especially in Egypt.
poo_for_brains
08-14-2006, 11:29
It was better in original MTW as bihops are more influental than priests.
I disagree. I reckon it adds a nice role-playing aspect to build up your guy from a humble priest, to a bishop, to the Pope by eliminating heretics, preaching to heathens etc.
Silver Rusher
08-14-2006, 18:59
It's kinda an "Arc of the Covenant" weapon that fires lightning like in the movie Indiana Jones.
Lightning? I thought it shot flaming elephants with cannons on their backs.
Vladimir
08-14-2006, 19:45
Lightning? I thought it shot flaming elephants with cannons on their backs.
No no. :no: Not only would the flames ignite the gunpowder but Elephants shouldn't be available to Catholic factions.
The Spartan (Returns)
08-14-2006, 19:54
i got the e-mail days ago. i was going to announce it but i could copy anything from the e-mail...
4th Dimension
08-14-2006, 20:43
Maby the armies that were subscribed to crusades, get to the Holy land automaticly.
And everybody knows that that cross calls down the hail of pink podles down upon you enemies.
Bob the Insane
08-14-2006, 20:58
That images (the last one) looks very similar to one seen before where you had exactly 5000 florins (this one has 4960) was was possibly the English starting position...
Is it possible the English start with a Crusader army? Or are we taking to much from Marketing mockups?
I like waht they have done with religion, it is a nice mix of RTW and MTW stuff... I imagine when your guy gets elected Pope he disappears from the map and gets listed as the new Pope. Possibly you get max Papal Standing as well and mybe a free alliance with the Papal faction? From that poitn on it is up to you to maintain that state of affairs??
Just a guess...
That images (the last one) looks very similar to one seen before where you had exactly 5000 florins (this one has 4960) was was possibly the English starting position...
Is it possible the English start with a Crusader army? Or are we taking to much from Marketing mockups?
I like waht they have done with religion, it is a nice mix of RTW and MTW stuff... I imagine when your guy gets elected Pope he disappears from the map and gets listed as the new Pope. Possibly you get max Papal Standing as well and mybe a free alliance with the Papal faction? From that poitn on it is up to you to maintain that state of affairs??
Just a guess...
I like that idea! :laugh4:
Horatius
08-15-2006, 05:07
It also would make sens that if your king dies, and you act like a jurk constantly attacking other catholics and permitting heretics to go free through your lands then you lose the standing that daddy got you since Religion counted long before nationality, and the pope wouldn't care that you are also english/french/german/dane etc etc.
Also one thing I intend to try is role playing as Raymond of Tolouse and the Cathars, by allowing heretics to convert everyone in my lands, refusing to heed the pope, and assassinating any inquisitor he sends to get heresy out of my lands and chastise me, looking forward to facing the Albigensian Crusades.
IrishArmenian
08-15-2006, 07:06
What about the Orthodoxy?
Furious Mental
08-15-2006, 12:11
When are we going to hear about the Holy Hand Grenadiers?
SpencerH
08-15-2006, 12:25
When are we going to hear about the Holy Hand Grenadiers?
They're in Napoleonic TW.
I hope the game isnt too Catholic centric. It would be nice if the other religions got a fair cut as well, hell it would be nice if the pagans and heretics had their own temples and priests this time around.
Myrddraal
08-16-2006, 01:57
With a name like Mithras you would think that... :smile:
The new podcast from TWC talks more on religion.
Link to the CA interview (http://www.totalwar.com/asset_library/Other/Soundtracks/Med_2/MTW2_Podcast_03.zip)
Some interesting things in that one.
It seems the pope will have different personalities which affects how he behaves.
And CA got Islam and the way it was implimented approved by a Islam scholar.
Doug-Thompson
08-16-2006, 15:14
When are we going to hear about the Holy Hand Grenadiers?
A Reading from the Book of Armaments, Chapter 4, Verses 16 to 20: (as provided by this link (http://www.clubi.ie/exalted/holyhand.htm))
"Then did he raise on high the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, saying, "Bless this, O Lord, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy." And the people did rejoice and did feast upon the lambs and toads and tree-sloths and fruit-bats and orangutans and breakfast cereals ... Now did the Lord say, "First thou pullest the Holy Pin. Then thou must count to three. Three shall be the number of the counting and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither shalt thou count two, excepting that thou then proceedeth to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the number of the counting, be reached, then lobbest thou the Holy Hand Grenade in the direction of thine foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it."
See here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_BIHPtDmeI)
"So, brave knights, if you do doubt your courage or your strength, come no further, for death awaits you all with nasty, big, pointy teeth."
TB666, you know if there's a text transcript of that podcast anywhere?
you don't understand what that guy is saying or what?:P
Er, well, actually I didn't download the zip file because I assumed that in order to listen to the podcast inside I'd have to have an i-Pod. Is that not the case?
Er, well, actually I didn't download the zip file because I assumed that in order to listen to the podcast inside I'd have to have an i-Pod. Is that not the case?
Nope, podcasts are just MP3 files.
iTunes can download podcasts, but so can lots of other programs.
Oh, well dang, I'll download it right away then. :laugh4: Thanks for the correction!
Nope, podcasts are just MP3 files.
iTunes can download podcasts, but so can lots of other programs.
Hmmm, I'm french and i don't understand very good (or it's really tiring, particularly in the last podcast about the battles, with the guy's incomprehensible accent) the spoken english. I understand the big lines when i read so i would want to find a text version of the podcasts. Is this available somewhere?
Little Legioner
08-30-2006, 08:16
Podcast was completely all about Catholicism. Pope is like this Pope is like that. Ok, but what about Islam and Orthodoxy?
Just look out the map and check out their (Islam & Orthodox ) territory. :book:
Just check their factions.
In the Islamic realm there was a Abbasid caliph in Bagdad. There were Shia - Sunnah faction conflict, There were heretic factions such as Hashasins.
Islam = Jihad... What a simple approach to history. :inquisitive:
sunsmountain
08-30-2006, 08:37
Getting to Gaza within 10 turns on the new map is quite a challenge really. Are they sure that that can be achieved from every starting position? Somehow I doubt it. Not to mention the chaos that will occur if you have to work together with the AI to be successful... imaging being forced to fight side by side, else you do not get the reward, and the AI typically doesn't wait for you, making it harder to join in. brrr...
Dutch_guy
08-30-2006, 12:19
Getting to Gaza within 10 turns on the new map is quite a challenge really. Are they sure that that can be achieved from every starting position? Somehow I doubt it. Not to mention the chaos that will occur if you have to work together with the AI to be successful... imaging being forced to fight side by side, else you do not get the reward, and the AI typically doesn't wait for you, making it harder to join in. brrr...
Well the screenshot says you should build an army to join the crusade in 10 turns, they didn't say you were supposed to reach gaza in 10 turns...
:balloon2:
sunsmountain
08-30-2006, 13:03
Well the screenshot says you should build an army to join the crusade in 10 turns, they didn't say you were supposed to reach gaza in 10 turns...
Exactly, that makes it even worse: "Join the crusade". What crusade? Your own crusade? Your allies crusade? Your catholic enemy's crusade? And where might this crusade be at this moment? In the dark (unless you have spies everywhere)? Or at Gaza?
If at Gaza, will they wait for you (answer:no)? If you're there first (recommended), should you wait for them (answer:hopefully no)? If you waited up for them and they decide it's not worth attacking, will they still join you if you decide to attack? Even if they're not your ally, or enemy even, and they have the same mission?
There are so many things that can go wrong with a crusade mission it scares me. Hell, look at any old MTW forum and find the posts about crusades, it was one of the few things that was unclear (when would get glory goal points, aka pips, when not?, etc.).
(IIRC, it was also one of my first posts on the totalwar.org forum, explaining when exactly you got the points.)
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=865203&postcount=8
poo_for_brains
08-30-2006, 13:28
A Crusade isn't like in MTW1, with one army moving which everyone has to put men into. If you want to crusade, you build your own army and go to Gaza. If you conquer it first, you are rewarded. If the AI's crusade army gets their first, and captures the province, it gets the reward instead. You don't have to wait for each other, or cooperate.
Silver Rusher
08-30-2006, 13:53
No no. :no: Not only would the flames ignite the gunpowder
Makes it all the more scary ~;)
but Elephants shouldn't be available to Catholic factions.
No no... these are the holy elephants of God you see.
IGN PC just did a feature
http://pc.ign.com/articles/729/729509p1.html
EDIT: OMG, I can post here now! ~:shock:
Dutch_guy
09-01-2006, 10:59
Notice how it is almost the exact same thing as the newsblast, almost word for word....
The only thing I found interesting was this screenie:
This (http://media.pc.ign.com/media/800/800327/img_3879988.html)
It gives us a view of the new missions.
:balloon2:
4th Dimension
09-02-2006, 22:12
Anybody noticed those icons in troop rooster, thet look excatly the same as those that signify that unit is fighting. Well it would be okay if it was a battle map. But what are they doing on World Map!!??
Hm, notice that crusading armies have those crosses above banners. Maby they have special rules of movement (faster ect.)
poo_for_brains
09-02-2006, 23:52
The crossed swords icon shows that they are crusading units.
They do have special rules of movement - they go twice as quickly.
4th Dimension
09-03-2006, 12:22
Hmm, but some of the units don't have them. Those three in lower left corner.
Geoffrey S
09-03-2006, 13:19
Sounds good. Though religion was implemented in MTW with crusades and the lot, this seems to be more involved. I particularly like the way crusades are handled, with such things as an increased rate of movement.
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/medieval2totalwar/news.html?sid=6157179&tag=topslot;action;1
Gamespot feature, though only part 1. Nothing new so far.
Nice overhead screenshot of a castle/city though
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