A question (or two) about English

[thrashaholic]

This is really a question directed to people who have learned to speak English as a second language. What I was wondering is which variety of English you were taught to speak/write etc. American 'English' or Proper (British) English? (color/colour, magnetize/magnetise, aluminum/aluminium, mold/mould, upcoming/forthcoming, line/queue and so on and so on...)

It would also be quite interesting to see the distribution of each, so perhaps it would be possible if you gave your country too?

Oh, and one more general question, why in the name of *** *** do Americans insist on smattering 'hell' all over their sentences? e.g. "...hell, even my nipples turned blue!", "well, hell, no matter how hard I tried, I just couldn't consolidate relativity and quantum theory!" etc. etc. It annoys the hell out of me... ~;p

(Language - Beirut)

[Moros]

This is really a question directed to people who have learned to speak English as a second language. What I was wondering is which variety of English you were taught to speak/write etc. American 'English' or Proper (British) English? (color/colour, magnetize/magnetise, aluminum/aluminium, mold/mould, upcoming/forthcoming, line/queue and so on and so on...)

It would also be quite interesting to see the distribution of each, so perhaps it would be possible if you gave your country too?

Well my English is far from perfect but In school we learn british English. But I mostly learned English from TV. As about 7 years ago there was no Belgian MTV so we watched the UK one (I also wathced the BBC when Iw as little) and in contrary to Germany and France most English Films, series,... are subtitled instead of having voice overs wich are done verry badly. So I started learning a mix of Britisch and American English. Then because of school I got more of a Britisch accent tough. (I speak a lot better then I write, as I learned it from tv).
And well later I also started to frequent English forums wich improved my english a bit too. But Americanized (is that a word) it a bit again.

So from the words I probably would spell them like this:
colour, magnetize, aluminium (same as in Dutch so), mold, upcoming, queue and line (I use both.)


Oh, and one more general question, why in the name of *** *** do Americans insist on smattering 'hell' all over their sentences? e.g. "...hell, even my nipples turned blue!", "well, hell, no matter how hard I tried, I just couldn't consolidate relativity and quantum theory!" etc. etc. It annoys the hell out of me... ~;p
Americans are Americans.

(Quoted language - Beirut)

[doc_bean]

British at school, American from tv (my primary source), I use a combination of both, combined with some Dinglish (Dutch + English), bad grammar and some general bad spelling and typing :2thumbsup:

[Avicenna]

British at school, American on TV/movies.

Can't really say that English is a second language though, more of a joint first, since I learned it since birth. I don't speak it at home though.

[DukeofSerbia]

British in elementary/high school and faculty, but I preffer American version because of TV, computers, movies etc. Professors forced British:book: but everybody speaks American version.

[Peasant Phill]

It seems to be unanimous about the English language in Belgium: British in school and American from TV. It's logical that the school system teaches us the british English as that county is closer and therefor the probability of needing to strike up a conversation with a Brit is bigger.

Like most others I have learned my English from the tele (aha here comes my british accent) and later on improved in school. This is one of the reasons I prefer subtitles. This year was my last year of University and I was still using my gut feeling about grammar instead of my grammar book (And with great success although I must admit that the English course only involves 2 hours a week)

Actually I should have adopted an Australian accent as I mostly watched "Neighbors" and "Home and Away" in those days. Glad that that worked out, mate.

And yes, I'm annoyed to by the seemingly inability of Americans to say a sentence without something flung in between.

[Pannonian]

(color/colour, magnetize/magnetise, aluminum/aluminium, mold/mould, upcoming/forthcoming, line/queue and so on and so on...)

Colour not color.
Magnetise not magnetize.
Aluminium not aluminum.
Mould not mold.
Forthcoming not upcoming.
Queue not line.
Lift not elevator.
Motorway not highway.
Petrol not gas.
Trousers not pants.
Pissed off not pissed (pissed is when you post to the drunkards thread).

We should invade the colonies and teach them to speak real English.

[Louis VI the Fat]

When paying at a restaurant, I ask for the BILL which I pay with a CHEQUE, not the other way round.

That should answer your question. ~;)

[Sigurd]

I had English in Primary school (3 years), Secondary school (4 years), Grammar school (3 years), nearly lived in Scotland during a period of my military service. I studied in Australia (1.5 years).

I got A’s in my English Advanced course (Grammar school) and was required to elaborate in advanced English during my Masters at QUT to get decent grades.

I spoke with an American dialect during Primary and Secondary School to my teachers despair. I tried some other dialects during grammar school and can do a decent “Oxford” English, put an Irish tone on my English with the proper r’s and the singing diction.
I can make Americans and English people believe that I grew up in Pollock, Glasgow.
Even though I stayed in Brisbane, Australia for 3 semesters I can not do an Australian dialect. I guess there was just too much foreigners at the uni for me to pick it up.

Native English (I throw all English forms in there) always comment on my skills with the oral English language, but if any here had had as much training with Norwegian as I have had with English (lets see, that is 10 years in school, nearly a year in Scotland and around 16 months in Australia) I would have been as impressed as they are with your Norwegian skills.

[Ser Clegane]

British was the default version at school (the schoolbooks during the first 4 years were actually almost a tad too British - I think the Scott-family will haunt me for the rest of my life), however differences between British and American English were pointed out frequently in later years.

As I guess that I am more exposed to American English I assume that over time more and more American English has crept into my vocabulary, although I kind of like the British English and try to include it in my vocabulary as well.

Is anyone in the UK actually using the word "lorry" instead of "truck"?

[Duke Malcolm]

Yes, most people I know say lorry

[L'Impresario]

I think it's a true feat for today's kids not to learn (American) English, it's written across most screens, walls, papers, clothes, smooth surfaces in general. The process to develop an acceptable level of fluency no longer passes through traditional schooling, even though it's not surprising -quite the opposite- to see young people having a more cognitive knowledge of English than their mother tongue.
It can be also argued that due ial onto the insertion of -mainly British- English to the school curriculum worldwide a few decades ago, foreign speakers tended to prefer British orthography and writting patterns, but, at the same time, developed American accent and oral expression (--> popular culture ofcourse).
Nowdays, with the "informalisation" of written discourse, dominating is the trend to favour American English in all forms of expression .

The above apply mainly to natives of countries with some Indo-European language (with Germanic and Italic ones being the most favoured), as people who possess a different background usually have to develop to a significant degree their syntactical and grammatical skills first, before being able to match the skills of, say, their germanic peers.

[Silver Rusher]

Colour not color.
Magnetise not magnetize.
Aluminium not aluminum.
Mould not mold.
Forthcoming not upcoming.
Queue not line.
Lift not elevator.
Motorway not highway.
Petrol not gas.
Trousers not pants.
Pissed off not pissed (pissed is when you post to the drunkards thread).

We should invade the colonies and teach them to speak real English.
Pannonian for King!

[Red Peasant]

Is anyone in the UK actually using the word "lorry" instead of "truck"?

Depends where you come from, round here it is most often wagon and wagon-driver.

[Quid]

I shall refrain from commenting anything useful in this thread (nothing new there) as I have made a total blunder of it the last time something similar came up.

Quid

[The Spartan (Returns)]

born in the Americanas so.........

however my mom loves the British "accent" and that trait is passsing on to me kinda.

[Zalmoxis]

I learned American English from the TV, but perfected it when I came over. Not much else to say.

[Divinus Arma]

Here is a question: For you non-native english speakers, what do the two differing accents sound like to you?

Try not to compare the brutalized english of the American lower classes against the British English. Consider the speech of an educated American, such as that of say, John Kerry, Condoleeza Rice, or some other politician.


As for "hell", it is an American source of color (colour) in verbage. It denotes an intent to speak with greater passion than the speaker's eloquence allows. This is not an intentional choice, but it is one of many words used in lieu of more descriptive vocabulary.

[Justiciar]

I was speaking to the Greek fellow that owns a restraunt down the road about the same thing a couple of days ago. He claims he can't tell the difference between American English and British English.. on reflection, I can't blame him. The differences aren't that great.

[Sigurd]

Here is a question: For you non-native english speakers, what do the two differing accents sound like to you?

Try not to compare the brutalized english of the American lower classes against the British English. Consider the speech of an educated American, such as that of say, John Kerry, Condoleeza Rice, or some other politician.


The opinions of a Norwegian:

There is a distinct difference between American and English as spoken by e.g. John Kerry and Tony Blair.

The first thing you notice is that the words is much more pronounced in American i.e. they take longer to form in the mouth. This makes American a slower language to speak.

The vowels in American do not differ as much as in English. It is my claim that there are more vowel sounds in English than in American. The English vowels are short and sharp but the American is wide and soft.

American uses the Irish r’s but do not “sing” like the Irish (There are probably many different dialects in Ireland but the one I am thinking of is the one used in the North?). The r’s in American are quite emphasized.
English cut the r’s and they are almost silent (the dialect that Tony Blair speaks).

There are of course several different dialects in both English and American. I can hear differences in American spoken in the south (the traditional southern states) and the American spoken in the costal cities of the North Eastern States (e.g. Boston and NY). There are dialects in the Midwest that I can recognise, but those seem to be spoken by farmer boys, steer wrestlers etc. Once I met an American from the Midwest who was supposedly from a finer family and was a debate champion of his school, I thought personally that he talked quite feminine, but his dialect was as close to English as I have ever heard. It was the r’s and some of the vowels that gave him away. Some American can be quite sloppy with their consonants which make the language probably what Eclectic calls American lower class. I do not have an extensive knowledge of the different dialects, but the before-mentioned is what I have picked up (that is without having heard someone from all the parts of America).

English or the dialects spoken in UK are probably more diverse without going into details. You even have distinguished dialects in the immigrant communities (my impression not necessarily the truth). You have the English proper spoken by politicians and aristocrats and lowly English by London east. I recognise dialects from Newcastle, Manchester and Liverpool. The Scottish dialects are harder, but Glaswegian is quite distinct from the rest. Scottish spoken in Inverness is very clear and easy to understand. You have the dialects around Fife and the different words used (e.g. ‘ken’). The Scottish spoken on Shetland is as if a Norwegian from Ålesund spoke English with his dialect shining trough.

Examples:
Interview with Tony Blair.
The reporter uses distinct r’s almost American but the pronunciation is clearly English (Real Player)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1720000/audio/_1720377_blair21.ram (http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1720000/audio/_1720377_blair21.ram)

John Kerry is a very clear American there is absolutely no mistaking his spoken language.

http://www.johnkerry.com/video/flash/073106_speech.html (http://www.johnkerry.com/video/flash/073106_speech.html)

[scotchedpommes]

Fit's abidy on aboot wi' 'ese words (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doric_dialect_%28Scotland%29), like? Ah wuddna ken. :inquisitive:

Dialects of English here are indeed diverse [Whether you consider them a dialect
of English, or a language in their own right is up to individual opinion.] and learning
to understand them, let alone utilise them, can be a challenge. On top of typical
alterations there are also naming conventions to be adopted based purely on
regional difference, which can at first be confusing. [e.g. Scumdee, Scumdonian.]

I have found, however, that with a relatively small amount of time spent on the
appropriate education, a foreigner, whether visiting or newly arrived resident,
can have their fundamental knowledge and vocabulary bolstered significantly.

[Samurai Waki]

I think the reason being why a lot of people who know english as a second language have a more americanised accent, is largely because, a few generations ago, most of our ancestors were in the position. American English has A LOT more non-english characteristics because a lot of Americans are not english.

[Silver Rusher]

I was speaking to the Greek fellow that owns a restraunt down the road about the same thing a couple of days ago. He claims he can't tell the difference between American English and British English.. on reflection, I can't blame him. The differences aren't that great.
That's what I think, it's only easy for fluent or even native speakers of the language to tell the difference between two accents. I for example couldn't tell the difference between Spanish spoken by a Spanish person and Spanish spoken by a Mexican (except for the pronunciation of z's and c's, which is like a th sound in Castilian but not in Latin American).

[thrashaholic]

That's what I think, it's only easy for fluent or even native speakers of the language to tell the difference between two accents. I for example couldn't tell the difference between Spanish spoken by a Spanish person and Spanish spoken by a Mexican (except for the pronunciation of z's and c's, which is like a th sound in Castilian but not in Latin American).

I'd say it's sometimes difficult to tell accents apart even if one is a native speaker, Aussie/New Zealander for example.

If I heard them together, I imagine I could tell them apart and tell which one was which (getting them to say fish and chips would be a dead give away). However, if I heard them individually I suspect I'd have more trouble. Likewise with various t'northern accents (I'm very much a 'home counties' southerner): I doubt I could tell the difference between a Lancashire and a Yorkshire accent unless they were together, and even then I suspect I'd have difficulty...

[Divinus Arma]

I think the reason being why a lot of people who know english as a second language have a more americanised accent, is largely because, a few generations ago, most of our ancestors were in the position. American English has A LOT more non-english characteristics because a lot of Americans are not english.

That's actually a really good point.

[lars573]

Colour not color.
Magnetise not magnetize.
Aluminium not aluminum.
Mould not mold.
Forthcoming not upcoming.
Queue not line.
Lift not elevator.
Motorway not highway.
Petrol not gas.
Trousers not pants.
Pissed off not pissed (pissed is when you post to the drunkards thread).

We should invade the colonies and teach them to speak real English.
I use
Magnetize
If your speaking of an object that you pour clay or molten metal into to form something then mold.
Queue and line, line is more common though.
Upcoming
Elevator
Highway
Gas. Gas is much more proper a word than petrol. Gas is short for Gasoline. where as Petrol is short for petrolium. Gas is the actual feul that goes into your car. Petrol is anything liquid made from crude oil. From karosine to bunker C.
Pants
Pissed off

[L'Impresario]

American English has A LOT more non-english characteristics because a lot of Americans are not english


Ermm, actually English hasn't got many english characteristics itself (http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutenglish/proportion) since the time people started taking the ferry, whether to reach or leave the isle.

[Andres]

Varieties of English? There's only one correct variety: MY English.

I don't make errors in spelling or grammar, it's just you who don't know their English.

By the way, from now one, English doesn't exist anymore. It is AndresTheCunnings.

So, which variety of AndresTheCunnings did you guys learn?

*** leaves the room to oversee the construction of his 500 meters tall, golden statue ***

[Fragony]

Don't know what I was taught, I tend to use all. I speak american english, not going to pronounce words brittish style. I have never met a brit that does either by the way, always this funny accent.

[Moros]

Here is a question: For you non-native english speakers, what do the two differing accents sound like to you?

Try not to compare the brutalized english of the American lower classes against the British English. Consider the speech of an educated American, such as that of say, John Kerry, Condoleeza Rice, or some other politician.


As for "hell", it is an American source of color (colour) in verbage. It denotes an intent to speak with greater passion than the speaker's eloquence allows. This is not an intentional choice, but it is one of many words used in lieu of more descriptive vocabulary.
Depens American accent is quite different from place to place. Someone from New York talks different then someone from Texas. And when it comes to the eloquent American or Brit. I'll prefer the American. Non eloquent American vs eloquent Brit. I'll vote for the brit. However a non eloquent brit pwns all Americans. (Just the accent.)

But of course the Scottish accent rules them all.:2thumbsup:

[naut]

I use
Magnetize
If your speaking of an object that you pour clay or molten metal into to form something then mold.
Queue and line, line is more common though.
Upcoming
Elevator
Highway
Gas. Gas is much more proper a word than petrol. Gas is short for Gasoline. where as Petrol is short for petrolium. Gas is the actual feul that goes into your car. Petrol is anything liquid made from crude oil. From karosine to bunker C.
Pants
Pissed off

Diction sir, diction. We gave you a language please kindly use it.

[IrishArmenian]

Learned English from me da.

[Justiciar]

Good luck wit dat. :2thumbsup:

[Red Peasant]

Learned English from me da.

Was he a Geordie then? ~;)

[IrishArmenian]

No clue what you are talking about. I assume it is a british isels thing.

[InsaneApache]

Geordies (http://home.att.net/~BARRYSHEENE/HAMS/page3.html)

[Justiciar]

Eskimos for Iceland? :inquisitive:

[InsaneApache]

Well they are Geordies........:laugh4:

[IrishArmenian]

Hmm... He drinks a lot, though he no Newcastle stuff. He puts a lot of his money into importing Guiness. He is a large man who makes his money on manual labour, but sadly, he is no Scandanavian. No red hair, no blonde hair, no blue eyes. I guess he is close, but no a Geordie.

[Roderic the Emptyhanded]

I learnt british english in school. And I'm still learning. But almost every movie is in the american english-style. So I speak a sort of mix between them both.