Under what conditions would you pick lettuce, strawberries, etc?

[Divinus Arma]

4th Edit: Try to consider what minimum you would consider working for, rather than what you would prefer! Thanks. :bow:

Let us first recognize that this is a very low-skill, labor intensive, seasonal position. You may find work in the summer, or the autumn, or winter, depending on the crop. Everything from pumpkins to *enter fruit/vegetable here*.

This assumes that illegal immigrants are not in competition for your job.

BTW, you have no obligation to stay on for any longer than one day. So, if you need extra cash for some reason, you could just go to a day-labor hire spot in the morning and get to work for that day.

EDIT:

Pay for Performance Choice 'A'. Guaranteed minimum wage (requires at least low intensity). Medium Intensity (light sweat) = $10 an hour. High Intensity (soaking sweat) = $20 an hour

Pay for Performance Choice 'B'. Guaranteed $15, but may not be rehired for poor performance (requires at least medium intensity. Medium Intensity (light sweat) = $15 an hour. High Intensity (soaking sweat) = $20 an hour )

Pay for Performance Choice 'C'. Guaranteed minimum wage, but may not be rehired for poor performance (requires at least low intensity). Medium Intensity (light sweat) = $15 an hour. High Intensity (soaking sweat) = $30 an hour

2nd Edit: Performace is based on the speed of your work, not how much you sweat. So you may end up being more efficient and sweating less. I am just pointing out the degree of difficulty that you will probably be required to work in order to be "high intensity".

3rd Edit: All hourly wage jobs are guaranteed pay, but you may or may not not be welcome back if your level of work is less than that of the other workers. Expect a lower level of intensity than the P4P program. Probably just below medium intensity.

[Divinus Arma]

So you would rather pick berries than wave cars? You consider it equivalent?

[macsen rufus]

Hmmm, where's the only option I would chose, then?

"When I'd grown them myself..." :2thumbsup:

[Divinus Arma]

Yeah, actually. I've been almost killed three times in the last two days waving cars. With berries, the damage doesn't really sneak up on you until you've been doing it for several years, 18-hours a day, with no breaks. :inquisitive:

Well, as an employer, I would value a highly performing staff over a low performing staff, since they would do more work in less time. Because of this, I would pay far more for faster labor. "Labor" is not always equal. An agricultural worker who can do twice as much work in the same amount of time as a regular worker would allow me to have a 2fold increase in any equipment life (as long as they wern't required to run at a faster pace), would allow me to resow my field in half the time, allow me to get home early each day, and allow me to staff supervisors for half the time. A huge savings. I would pay a faster laborer twice as much, but still recieve more than twice the benefit. A win-win.

[Ser Clegane]

Performance Choice 'A' sounds OK (even if I do not know what the minimum wage would be - I just assume that it is somewhere in the 7 USD range)

I think for jobs like this the pay should definitely be tied to performance as this is very easy to measure, i.e. volume of undamaged berries you are able to pick per hour (actually being completely paid by volume instead of hours would probably make even more sense in this specific case)

My answer is of course hypothetical as I probably would not be quite willing to give up my current job to go strawberry-picking ~;)

[Divinus Arma]

Not quite. Most Agricultural jobs pay by the bucketful. So if you work slow, you get paid less.

Huh? Isn't that essentially what I said? The faster you work, the more buckets you will fill.

[Major Robert Dump]

no less than $10 per hour. It has nothing to do with the skill level or what I "deserve" and everything to do with it being a crappy job, so at the minimum, if i needed a second job or whatever, i would consider 10 per hour (but likely not take it) A speed bonus would be nice, as performance recognition spurs better performance in some and would be a good way to make a lot of money fast, but base would have to be 10 minumum

I find it humourous when what people "deserve" comes into the wage debate when the jobs we are talkiing about suck. Around here, the starting pay for a 7-11 clerk is $11 per hour, it says so on the signs at all the stores. And those are Oklahoma dollars. The company knows that the job sucks, and the company knows that the only way to get people to even consider the job is to start out almost twice the going starting pay for similar clerk jobs with other companies.

[Divinus Arma]

GC, observe:


The kicker is how to make that coincide with minimum wage laws. Do you just fire people who don't work fast enough to earn themselves minimum wage? Heck, I think I just answered the question right there.


You are paid what you are worth. If it takes a special kind of person to be willing to work at 7-11 pick strawberries, then I guess they'll wind up getting paid more, for lack of there being other people to hire.

If we terminate all illegal workers, we will have a labor deficit. Nobody will do those jobs for minimum wage. The employer will have to lift the wage if he wants Americans. That's kinda the whole point here: What would it take for you to do this crappy job?

I agree with MRD: Sometimes crappy jobs have to pay more in order for anyone to do it.

[Productivity]

I picked $20 an hour, not because the work is worth that but in reality the only way you are going to get me picking those fields is to pay a premium over what I can get working in an office. In reality it would have to be far higher than $20 but it was the closest option.

In reality, I suspect most of this forum would have better opportunities than picking agricultural produce and so you're going to get a weird set of answers that you wouldn't get from the general US (or wherever) population.

I'd find a more interesting question to be "Would you buy agricultural produce at a premium if it was guaranteed to be picked by citizens of your own country?". I read an article a few years ago in realtion to outsourcing and this question, it was an insurance company and they gave their customers two options. Your claim could be processed within 1-2 days by an Indian, or an American could do it in 1-2 weeks. No dollars delta. 85% of people chose the Indians.

I'll try to dig out the article but it was a few years ago so no guarantees - plus it's slightly different as in the picking case, the outsourcing is done illegally and within one's own borders.

[Moros]

I'll do it in exchange for strawberries...think about the pie. Seriously I really would. But only for one day. And ofcourse a decent amount of strawberries.

[Kralizec]

To pay for my study & rent (and this summer, for my vacation), I already work at a grocery storehouse where I suppose I earn about $10 dollars with the current exchange course.
It's a job that is tolerable to do, I can do well enough, flexible work hours and I can get along well with most of my collegues.

As agricultural labour, I'd want at least $15 before I change jobs (provided that I can still chose, of course)

[Strike For The South]

well right now minummum wage would be fine but once I had a family it wouldnt be enough.

[Lemur]

The whole "jobs Americans won't do" line of reasoning is bogus, and I'm glad Eclectic is pointing it out. I voted for option C, largely because I like pay for performance, and because at my current wages an employer would have to be willing to offer me at least $30 per hour to make me take notice.

But when I was in college I dug ditches, also pay for performance, and that had no minimum wage (nor maximum, which is part of why it rocked as a job).

[Joeokar]

I would do it for minimum wage I need a job :help: :laugh4:

[lars573]

I voted for $15/hr. That's roughly double minimum wage. And to do a shitte agricultural job like harvesting by hand. Which does a number on you physically. You need adiquate compensation.

But round here I'd be competing against migrant workers. Who are Mexicans, Jamacans, and other central south american workers that the government flies in to pick produce then flies them home.

[Kagemusha]

I dont think there should be pay for an hour of work on picking berrys. There should be pay for the harvested item per kg.

[Duke Malcolm]

Picking berries here is a traditional summer pastime. Many farms in the Carse of Gowrie and Strathmore grow various berries and let people pick their own and sell them at prices much cheaper than pre-picked supermarket strawberries. Where I go, it costs 80p per lb for strawberries and raspberries. £1 per lb for gooseberries, loganberries, and tayberries.

[The Spartan (Returns)]

20 an hour.

[whyidie]

I picked $20 an hour, not because the work is worth that but in reality the only way you are going to get me picking those fields is to pay a premium over what I can get working in an office. In reality it would have to be far higher than $20 but it was the closest option.

In reality, I suspect most of this forum would have better opportunities than picking agricultural produce and so you're going to get a weird set of answers that you wouldn't get from the general US (or wherever) population.

I'd find a more interesting question to be "Would you buy agricultural produce at a premium if it was guaranteed to be picked by citizens of your own country?". I read an article a few years ago in realtion to outsourcing and this question, it was an insurance company and they gave their customers two options. Your claim could be processed within 1-2 days by an Indian, or an American could do it in 1-2 weeks. No dollars delta. 85% of people chose the Indians.

I'll try to dig out the article but it was a few years ago so no guarantees - plus it's slightly different as in the picking case, the outsourcing is done illegally and within one's own borders.

Yes. I went with Gah only because I wouldn't be willing to do the job at $20 an hour. If they were willing to put up with an icompetent worker for 3-4 hours a week or whenever I wanted extra cash then sure, $20 an hour would be fine. But I doubt they would hire me at that rate with my lack of berry picking skills.

I would find it more interesting to know whether:

1) The price of the product would increase with the wage increase
2) Would people be willing to pay X% more for the product if there was a price increase

[Aenlic]

Perhaps if the minimum wage kept up with inflation. If the minimum wage had merely been increased to match inflation since 1972, it would now be over $8/hour.

Perhaps also tying the minimum wage on an equal percentage increase basis with any raises that the U.S. Congress gives itself or federal judges or the president. The period from 1997-2006 is the longest stretch that the minimum wage has gone unchanged, since it was first instituted in the U.S. in 1938. During that same period, 1997-2006, Congress has raised its pay a total of $31,600 in seven pay raises, to a total now for non-leaders of $165,200 per year. If the minimum wage had been raised by the same amount in the last 10 years, it would now be over $6.36/hr.

And, of course, it would just be nice if migrant farm workers were actually paid the legal minimum wage. They aren't. Because many of them are illegal aliens and can't thus complain to someone about their pay. One reason you won't see meaningful immigration reform in the U.S. anytime soon? Businesses that rely upon illegal workers so they don't even have to pay the minimum wage. If you think your vote is more important to your local Congressional representative, rather than the input of the businesses and special interests which pay to elect him or her, then you are sadly mistaken. And in the case of illegal immigration, business is firmly on the side of not only allowing it, but actually encouraging it so they can pay even less. They want their sub-standard pay indentured servants; and they'll make sure that Congress keeps supplying the conditions to have them.

[whyidie]

Wonder what % of the workforce is making minimum wage..

[Hepcat]

What is the minimum wage in the US anyway?

In NZ it is somwhere around $9.50

[whyidie]

I believe that its 5.15 here at the Federal level.

The states can have higher mins:

http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm

[Divinus Arma]

1) The price of the product would increase with the wage increase
2) Would people be willing to pay X% more for the product if there was a price increase


(1) Yes, see below. However, there would also be dramatic decreases in other sectors: health care costs, prison and law enforcement costs, education costs, roadway and infrastructure costs.

(2) Yes. They would have no choice. These are commodities, and as such farms are unable to differentiate themselves (with some exceptions), and thus are entirely at the whim of supply and demand. Neither the buyer nor the seller would have much choice in pricing.

[Papewaio]

Depends on several factors.

My own business: Then just enough to cover living expenses, but not luxuaries.

Family business: Casual hours here and there then it would be for free. Fulltime then anything from free to the standard wage (depending on what the business can handle).

Someone elses business: Have to attract me based on my situation. If I was unemployed then I would be looking to supplement my income with minimum wage (or better) until I found another job on the career path. In my current position they would have to pay better then my overtime pay... so something in excess of $50 per hour.

[Avicenna]

Never could, never would. I live in the city. ~;)

[Xiahou]

(1) Yes, see below. However, there would also be dramatic decreases in other sectors: health care costs, prison and law enforcement costs, education costs, roadway and infrastructure costs.I've always said that illegal immigration amounts to nothing more than a government subsidy for businesses that employ them. As such, I have absolutely zero sympathy employers who whine about why they "need" illegals to stay in business. Sure, they may have to charge more- but at least the costs would be consumption based. Right now, we're all paying for their below market labor.


(2) Yes. They would have no choice. These are commodities, and as such farms are unable to differentiate themselves (with some exceptions), and thus are entirely at the whim of supply and demand. Neither the buyer nor the seller would have much choice in pricing.I think some farms, ect. would likely go out of business without illegal labor if they didnt remain competitive. That's too bad- see my 'no sympathy' comment above. :wink:

[Lemur]

Yeah, the "We couldn't afford to be in business if we had to pay people minimum wage" argument smacks of the arguments made in the 1800s for plantation slavery. And I don't draw that analogy for its racial basis, but for the economic parallel. Remember, in the Northern U.S. people were forced to automate, industrialize and modernize if they wanted to create efficiencies. The Southern U.S. had no such pressure -- you could always buy or breed more slaves if you needed more production.

It's easy to see which economic model won that little competition. Likewise, industries who insist that they can only get by with illegal workers are probably taking their supply of cheap labor and using it as a good reason to be inefficient. Who cares how many workers are required if you can get Pedro for $40 per day? There's no pressure to see if maybe you could do the same job with five workers rather than ten.

It's also worth noting that previous increases in the minimum wage also met with cries and screams about rampant inflation and job loss. Didn't happen. 'Nuff said.

[Xiahou]

Yeah, the "We couldn't afford to be in business if we had to pay people minimum wage" argument smacks of the arguments made in the 1800s for plantation slavery. And I don't draw that analogy for its racial basis, but for the economic parallel. Remember, in the Northern U.S. people were forced to automate, industrialize and modernize if they wanted to create efficiencies. The Southern U.S. had no such pressure -- you could always buy or breed more slaves if you needed more production.

It's easy to see which economic model won that little competition. Likewise, industries who insist that they can only get by with illegal workers are probably taking their supply of cheap labor and using it as a good reason to be inefficient. Who cares how many workers are required if you can get Pedro for $40 per day? There's no pressure to see if maybe you could do the same job with five workers rather than ten.Exactly! Without an endless supply of virtual 'slave' labor, you'd see increased mechanization which- in turn -would help employee productivity skyrocket. Then suddenly it isnt so hard to see your way to paying people enough that they'd be willing to do the work. :yes:


It's also worth noting that previous increases in the minimum wage also met with cries and screams about rampant inflation and job loss. Didn't happen. 'Nuff said.Personally, Im cool to minimum wage increases- especially when in reference to illegal immigration. Forcing employers to pay unskilled legal laborers even more certainly isn't going to help dry up the demand for illegal and under the table labor. I'd really be interested to know how many people in the US that work for minimum wage do so by choice. I mean, I've read recently that even WalMart's average wage for it's full-time employees is $10/hr. I haven't worked in the unskilled market for years, but even back then I don't think I was ever paid minimum wage- my closest was making a just nickel over it when I was 16 and working at Kmart.

I also think that raising minimum wage hurts small businesses- for example, mom & pop amusement parks that pay high-school kids to basically sit around at booths all day during their vacations. Why the heck should they be making $8 an hour for that? :dizzy2:

[Major Robert Dump]

I suppose if I NEEDED a job and that was the best choice for the immediate than I'd do it for minimum wage while plotting my eventual escape

But companies who pay crap for crap jobs will always endure high turnover and ineffective employees. If their business can survive that way, great for them. Sprinkling in benefits or promise of promotion or profit sharing can spice up the deal, but its a hard sell if the pay is crap unless people are desperate, which is a serious factor in the illegal immigrant impact.

[whyidie]

(1) Yes, see below. However, there would also be dramatic decreases in other sectors: health care costs, prison and law enforcement costs, education costs, roadway and infrastructure costs.

Health care because we wouldn't be paying for illegals. I'll buy that. Prison and law enforcement costs becuase illegals commit more crimes ? I'm not so sure, but I'll take your word for it. The other costs I'll buy as well as it seems that if we have less illegals using the roads, education, and infrastructure we will have less demand. Ok.

Followup question. Once the consumer has shown that he will pay a particular price for a particular service, how often does the price actually decrease, much less decrease dramatically ?

(2) Yes. They would have no choice. These are commodities, and as such farms are unable to differentiate themselves (with some exceptions), and thus are entirely at the whim of supply and demand. Neither the buyer nor the seller would have much choice in pricing.[/QUOTE]

So we have various sectors of the economy that are more affordable because of low cost immigrant labor. How often do you eat berries now ? If I want blackberries from the market I pay about $3-4 for a handful. If that price raises to 7 I'm not eating blackberries. If Starbucks is paying more for real berry syrup, I'm pretty sure they'd buy the synthetic stuff before driving up the cost of their product.

As I'm writing I've come to think we'd adjust. I think the system would work, farmers or corporate farmers would figure out a way to drive the cost of the product down.

[kataphraktoi]

:laugh4: :laugh4: My dad's friend owns an organic strawberry farm...so that means free strawberries...:2thumbsup: :2thumbsup:

Top quality too.

[rory_20_uk]

It'd have to pay better than my job, especially as the chances of a wage increase are limited, whereas I am likely to get increases as I progress in seniority. If it were part time work again it'd have to be equal to work I hope to get as a "locum". That can be about £20-£25 / hour.

So, I'd do that for minumum of $30/hr. Else I am better off doing other things - as I am a highly trained professional.

~:smoking:

[Somebody Else]

I hear in Canada, people get paid 50 cents for planting a tree...

Sounds a bit menial for me, but I also hear that some people can make 1500 dollars a day at it... Not quite sure how, that's like... 30 seconds a tree.

Apparently it's a bunch of hippies who work 4 months a year (when it's the right season) then 'smoke' the rest of the year.

[Beirut]

I hear in Canada, people get paid 50 cents for planting a tree...

Sounds a bit menial for me, but I also hear that some people can make 1500 dollars a day at it... Not quite sure how, that's like... 30 seconds a tree.

Apparently it's a bunch of hippies who work 4 months a year (when it's the right season) then 'smoke' the rest of the year.

The guy I work with did it for a while. Very hard on the back. He could plant several hundred in a day, but not several thousand. You have to go back to a central point (a truck) and get more baby trees, then walk back plant, then go back for a refill, and on and on. Takes time.

And yes, they were a bunch of hippies. He still is. :hippie:

[Somebody Else]

And yes, they were a bunch of hippies. He still is. :hippie:

Actually, that probably explains why 300 could turn into 3000...

[IrishArmenian]

I ment to hit Minimum wage, but clicked 10 which is great money. The average income here in US money is 1200. I get about 1300 for being an officer in the army here.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Well, I've done it for minimum in WA (~$2 above the nat'l minimum wage), and that really sucked. So now I'd only do it for $10 at the lowest. Of course, they wouldn't pay me that, so screw the raspberry farmers.

Crazed Rabbit

[Papewaio]

I ment to hit Minimum wage, but clicked 10 which is great money. The average income here in US money is 1200. I get about 1300 for being an officer in the army here.

Per 2 weeks?

[IrishArmenian]

Per Year.

[Papewaio]

I assume the local economy makes that a liveable wage then.

The exploration crew I was working with in Indonesia was on $3 US per day... at the time about 50% more then the other local industry standard. So they were on $600 US per annum (6 years ago) and were happy with that.

[yesdachi]

Supply and demand dictate price and if a farmer can get more money out of his crop then he can continue paying his more expensive laborers. If farmers couldn’t be profitable using more expensive labor they wouldn’t go out of business they would just start farming things that do not require as much labor, like corn vs. strawberries. I am finding there are lots of other farming options out there like, trees, wind, sun, etc. not all profitable options require huge fields or illegal hands to be profitable.

I de-tasseled corn and picked tulip bulbs when I was in high school to be able to afford a car and other things I wanted. Manual labor farm type jobs shouldn’t be a career, they should be something adults do to earn extra money or for kids do to raise money for the things they need/want before they can get a real job. Not many job counselors would recommend “day-laborer” as a career for a reason, its crap work that should be done to earn extra or to use as a stepping stone, not as a place to plan your retirement.