17th century

[Marshal Murat]

We in Poland are offended by Swedens position, but are proud to contiune to supply your grain.:2thumbsup:

[Franconicus]

Legio,

I must have information about my armies in the field! Please!! :dizzy2:

[Rodion Romanovich]

Hm, you sent a few questions, IIRC most of the form ending with "tell me if I'm wrong"? The answer to those questions are all yes so I decided not to send any explicit response to those. Or if you're referring to info about the results of what the armies have achieved so far during the turn, I'll send some info.

[Franconicus]

Just post the next chapter, please! :jumping: :stupido: :book: :2thumbsup:

[Rodion Romanovich]

Hehe it'll come on Friday hopefully. There are some who haven't replied yet though.

[Kagemusha]

Who are those heathens may i ask?:whip:

[Incongruous]

Gah!
I'm dying with suspense!

[Franconicus]

Wrong! What makes you dying are the French Mousquetiers that are currently surrounding the palace of the Emperor at Vienna. :laugh4:

[Incongruous]

Ahh! Gah!
Ruuuun!

French Musketeer "And ooh ere yoooh?"

Emperor "Uhum, I am ze, umm, ze male schtrip un grom"

French Musketeer" A uv cawse, weh ave ben wating fur ooh"

Emperor "A I thany you many unt timez"

Thus Matthias lives to strip another day!

[Franconicus]

Dear Kaiser,

I cannot understand what you are saying. Is it the fear that blocks your tongue or is this the result of inbreeding.

Be not afraid. The French Mousquetiers will be polite. They know how to treat a captured Kaiser.:dizzy2: :smash:

[Kagemusha]

If the Kaiser believes that the French musketeers could turn out to be rude towards him.We suggest he comes and surrenders to Republics troops. We could even arrange your majesty a trip to some southern location where sun always shines and there are no worries about many things except maybe mosquitos.~:thumb:

[Marshal Murat]

Wooo, interactive. Ummm, where is it.
Ah, another week of waiting.

[Ignoramus]

(Sorry for not being totally "on-topic") I only just discovered the Chapter House, is it too late to join this one?

[Rodion Romanovich]

(Sorry for not being totally "on-topic") I only just discovered the Chapter House, is it too late to join this one?
If someone drops out you could take his place, but at the moment any addition of players would make it unmanageable for me to handle.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Currently waiting for TRANSYLVANIA (Silver Rusher please send your decisions to me by PM)

[SwordsMaster]

Currently waiting for TRANSYLVANIA (Silver Rusher please send your decisions to me by PM)

Thought it was the new chapter.... *sigh*

[Incongruous]

Gah!

[Warluster]

If anyone doesn't want an certian country anymore i will take over for you!

[Kagemusha]

GAH! I need my 17th century fix or i will go Berserk!!:viking:

[Franconicus]

Has anybody heard something from Silver Rusher? Last time he posted here is more than a month ago!

[Ignoramus]

If he doesn't reply, can I take his place?

[Rodion Romanovich]

yes, it might be necessary to replace him if he doesn't respond... :shrug:

[Kagemusha]

Sounds like a plan. Maybe Silver has forgot the game. :dizzy2: So is it Ignoramus in to replace Silver as Transylvania, or would it be better for Legio to play Transylvania for this chapter and Ignoramus could choose his faction on next turn.Or where there someone else before him already? Atleast this way we could get our next chapter for the rest of the players faster.:2thumbsup:

[SwordsMaster]

I'd say that we should establish a time limit for posting. Everyone has to reply within the week, or, at least post in the thread to say when are they going to be able to reply if they are on a business trip/holiday/other RL stuff. If there is no answer within the week, their spot is free for anyone else willing to join.

[Rodion Romanovich]

I agree, but perhaps extend it to two weeks.

@Ignoramus: I give you 3 options and what to do depending on which you choose:
- option 1, jump in this turn, as Transylvania: PM me the decisions for Transylvania for this chapter
- option 2, jump in next turn, as Transylvania: don't do anything this turn, except tell me that you've chosen this option
- option 3, jump in next turn, as Denmark or some other major faction that isn't occupied at the moment: don't do anything this turn, except tell me that you've chosen this option

[Warluster]

Can i play as a major faction?

[Franconicus]

I think we should not add more factions. It becomes too complex and too slow. I wonder how poor legio can handle it at all.

I think Transylvania is not so important. There are some other factions that might be more interesting and have a bigger impact on the game.

Internal Factions like Portugese, Scottish or Huguenots, Trade organisations.
Country factions like: Denmark, Eastern or Western Indian tribes, African tribes.

If we want to integrate new recruits without extending the number of factions, we could split the existing ones. For example i could hire a viceroy for some of my colonies. We can discuss the actions internally and then I would send the plan to Legio, the way I used to do it. Therefore, the workload for Legio would not increase and the game would not be slowed down.

[Warluster]

I'll be Scotland!

[Franconicus]

Maybe my post was misleading. My proposal is, not to extend the numbers of factions. Only in case that we substitute one player, there should be the option to substitute one faction by another.

[Kagemusha]

Franc what is this talk about substituting factions? Is France planning to occupy other countries?Instead of bringing freedom from opressive regimees like the current HRE?:laugh4:

[Franconicus]

Non, Seigneur!

I was thinking about Transylvania. This is such a poor and underdeveloped country, that I can hardly find it on any French map.

However, you are right. Maybe we will need a new Kaiser, soon. :idea2:
Or we torture the old one a but - err what I mean is painful questioning, not torture - and then pardon him.

Au revoir!

[Randarkmaan]

Non, Seigneur!

I was thinking about Transylvania. This is such a poor and underdeveloped country, that I can hardly find it on any French map.



Also, any Transylvanian ruler would have to get used to the notion of not being the supreme overlord of his lands, rather the vassal of a foreign country.

[Ignoramus]

LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix: I'll choose option 3, thanks.

Edit: I'd like to be Scotland, but by now the the Kings of Scotland are the same as England, so should I pick another one? Actually, could I play the Huguenots?

[Franconicus]

Sure! However, Huguenots are a bit boring, as they are loyal subjects of their beloved king :yes:

[Rodion Romanovich]

@Warluster: as explained above, I'm sticking to the principle of not adding any more factions, but only allow new players if someone drops out. Since Ignoramus posted before you he is prioritized, but that means you're now 1st on the queue and will be able to enter the game in case someone else drops out.

@Ignoramus: ok!
Re faction choice: Huguenots would probably be a bit tricky as Franc explained above (in the interactive their influence has been more limited than historically at this time), and both Portugal and Scotland would have similar problems. I think the most recommended factions would be:
- Denmark - a country with a farily strong economy, medium strong mercenary based army, very strong navy, easily-defended heartlands and they have been fairly active with colonies. They also have firm control over Norway.
- Transylvania - probably not as insignificant as some would claim. The heartlands were difficult for outsiders to campaign in, and thus difficult to conquer. Transylvania also had an army strength of some 30,000 men. Historically they played a major role in the Bohemian revolt, which had consequences for much of the rest of the 30 years war, and they had an important role in balancing between the Ottomans and the HRE, both of which considered expansion into Transylvania (and for a while Poland also considered expansion in about this direction), and their religious tolerance stance made Transylvania fairly successful in their interventions in Hungary. Would be quite interesting from a diplomacy perspective...
- The Crimean Khanate is also possible, but I think it would be a bit tricky to make it interesting to play as
- Dutch East India company could be an interesting trade company faction to play as. With their large fleet and many land positions controlled in the East Indies they would be quite influential
- some of the Italian small states, such as Genoa/Venice etc. - especially Venice due to their position as producer of high quality ships and their holdings in the Eastern Mediterranean that were subject to Ottoman expansion later in the 17th century. They also have an old trade tradition that they've lost but could seek to reestablish, or fight French and Spanish interventions in the region, as well as pleasing the Pope.

...all remaining factions I can think of (though I might have forgotten one or two) would probably be quite difficult to simulate, or have only very limited relations with the other factions that are currently occupied by players

[Kagemusha]

Some nice ideas.Altough how Dutch East India could play as political entity? It was a private company owned by the citizens of Dutch Republic and it was loyal to the Republic. If it would start its own foreign policy,im afraid we would have to hang or decapitate the ones dealing with foreign powers.:whip: Is the chapter up soon?:2thumbsup:

[Franconicus]

Ignoramus,

I do not want to discourage you, but currently there is no homogeneous block of Huguenots. There are some in the service of the King, like Henri III, the leader of the army. Others are spread around the country. Many Huguenots live in La Nouvelle France.

Therefore you will have to decide which character you want to play.

You could be Henri III, the leader of the French army. Defeating the Emperor could be great fun, but then you have to be loyal and obey my orders. And after the victory, which might come very soon, there is little to do. France is such a peaceful country. :yes:

You could also become governor of Northern America, or Africa or India. :egypt:

[Randarkmaan]

How about Persia (Safavids)? Though I'm not sure if they were really important at this time, though they weren't exactly on friendly terms with the Ottomans, I also think that the Russians tried to grab some land from them.

EDIT: Also it could serve to 'uncover' the truth about my (The Ottoman Empire) so-called religious tolerance, as Shi'ism was banned by the Ottomans in the 16th century (Not sure if made it legal again sometime).
However to be realistic, it may be a little hard for Legio, I think, to incorporate a completely new faction into the game at this state.

[Rodion Romanovich]

CHAPTER 10 - August 1st, 1613 AD
...this chapter will affect the events from August 1st, 1613 AD to March 1st, 1614 AD

Somewhat to their surprise, the Protestant Union forces notice that Tilly stays in Berlin despite the obvious dangers and the reduced strength of his forces, allowing them to complete the trapping of his army. With newly arrived support from Denmark and Sweden, their army amounts to not 9,000 but 13,000 men (2,000 Danish and 2,000 Swedish), and they start laying siege to the city, while fortifying their positions. Supply levels in the city are estimated to be low after the previous siege, but Tilly's 6,000 men don't attempt to sally due to their inferiority in numbers. On the other hand, the Protestant Union forces are unable to assault due to their too small advantage in numbers. The siege soon begins to wear down the Catholic League forces, with the constant threat of assault or the locals opening the gates, forcing them to split up in smaller groups inside the city, not knowing which locals may have arms at their disposal hidden in the city, ready to attack one of the isolated groups inside. Rations being cut low, and growing unrest among the locals who are also getting their rations reduced, makes the situation worse for each day. Have the messengers sent to the Emperor been killed on their way home? Just when it would seem it couldn't get worse, the Protestants launch a fierce assault against a weakened section of the defenses. The defensive cannons inflict huge casualties, and so do the initial line of musketeers, but the assault is powerfully coordinated and Tilly's forces are too scattered to be able to respond quickly enough. Not until after the first defense line is broken is he capable of concentrating the troops to mount a powerful response. The battle is bloody on both sides, resulting in losses of over 500 Catholic League forces and bringing morale close to surrender, while only 600 of the Protestant forces are killed. Despite this, the Protestant forces decide to abort the assault and mount another one after regrouping, taking advantage of even more breeches that are about to be opened. When it seems the end has come, the Protestant forces suddenly abandon their positions outside the city and disappear north. The explanation arrives shortly afterwards - 15,000 Imperial troops have been sent to the rescue. Tilly is relieved, but can't help but notice that 3,000 of the troops are levies. Is the Emperor really in such shortage of troops that he has needed to muster levies with little experience to be able to get the numbers needed? With a total of a little over 20,000 troops, Tilly quickly strenghtens his position in Berlin, leaving a garrison of 2,000 men to repair the defenses, and marches on towards the town Brandenburg, which is laid under siege.

Meanwhile, Dutch and French armies enter territories of the Holy Roman Empire. The Dutch have quickly garrisoned the newly acquired Southern Netherlands, and quickly proceed to Liége, which has been abandoned by Spanish troops but due to confusion ended up neither under French or Dutch rule in the previous treaties. The Dutch quickly prepare a siege of the city, garrisoned by a small number of Imperial forces. Despite the strong defenses, it is taken already by June after heavy artillery bombardment and a well-coordinated assault with only 500 losses. The Dutch army then continues to Cologne with about 80% of their army, with the rest used for garrisoning and covering supplies.

The French attack in two groups. The southern group moves along the Danube in the direction of Ulm through Baden-Würtemberg. The cities are given the option of surrender or total destruction, resulting in some towns being quickly captured, but also in several cities and towns being ruthlessly plundered and burned to the ground. Many of the troops also disobey their direct orders of not plundering the peacefully surrendered regions, which are also damaged heavily by French foraging of supplies. The Free Imperial city of Rottweil is captured after a few months of siege, and heavily plundered and damaged. Spaichingen is also besieged by part of the force, while the others continue to Sigmaringen and Scheer which are targets of further advance in the direction of Ulm. The northern force advances on Trier, which is left under siege by 10,000 men. The city is offered to surrender if it pays a sum corresponding to the upkeep of 30,000 mercenaries for 1 year. The remainder of the French force continues to Cologne, joining the Dutch siege of the city. The French also negotiate terms with the Palatinate for military cooperation against Wallenstein. Wallenstein, upon noticing the routes of the French armies, immediately resumes his offensive activities and launches several raids on the supply lines of the French southern army, but stays way out of reach with his main force. The French siege army outside Spaichingen is dangerously exposed but not attacked during summer, however there are plenty of skirmishes between French and Imperial cavalry patrols, most of which end in victory for Wallenstein. French losses in total lie below 3,000 including desertion and losses due to military operations, but the supply lines are threatened and dangerously long for the easternmost French troops in the southern army, well exposed to Wallenstein's raids. The French northern army however has shorter supply lines and can acquire supplies from the Dutch army and Dutch merchants.

At the same time, Spanish forces launch an attack on Genoa. 11 warships and several merchants from the Spanish fleet support the operation, led by 2 tercios and Irish naval infantry. The operation is initially well coordinated and achieves an important element of surprise, even though the Genoese have been forewarned by the political foreplay and have a high state of readiness. Expecting an attack by land, judging from the Spanish troop movements there, they are overwhelmed by the sudden arrival of the Spanish fleet. The battle begins with the Spanish intercepting and sinking a Genoese ship out at sea in order to prevent it from returning home and forewarning the others. The operation then lands 1 tercio on the shores shortly outside Genoa while the fleet continues to the port of the city. Once at the port, a series of quick boarding actions allow the Spanish forces to take over 5 of the ships. 2 Genoese ships that open fire are quickly bombarded and sunk, while the remainder are prevented from manouvering and can only fire sporadic salvoes, only to later be boarded by more Spanish forces, however the last few boardings are met by heavy resistance with high losses for the Spanish forces. Genoese shore battery fire also damages some of the captured as well as Spanish ships. Not until after an important delay of several hours are the naval infantry forces ready for insertion in the port, but the Genoese have spotted them and are guarding the port too heavily. The city instead has to be taken by regular siege, after a few weeks of bombardment from both land and sea. The battle ends with 300 Spanish tercio losses and 200 losses for the naval infantry. 3 Genoese ships are sunk and 8 are captured, but 4 of them are heavily damaged and another 1 lightly damaged. Of the Spanish fleet ships, 1 is lightly damaged and 1 heavily damaged.

In Portugal, the Spanish have quelled the revolt, but raids and guerilla warfare continues. Around 100 Spanish forces are lost during the summer but a Spanish cavalry based force manages to destroy several smaller Portuguese guerilla raiding parties. A mobile tercio is stationed to respond to larger-scale attacks, but the rebels soon begin to attack in larger groups, too small and swift for the tercio but too large for the Spanish cavalry force. Spinola, who is in command of the troops here, responds by splitting the tercio and redeploying it into several smaller forces. Lisboa and Porto are relatively calm, and some 1,000 men are withdrawn from the garrisons to strengthen the more mobile forces. Seeing as the Spanish reforms weaken the Spanish nobility and strengthen the merchant class, the Portuguese resistance should be decreasing, but the Spanish Catholicism as well as their attacks on Genoa and the historical traditional hostility with England, are still reason for many Portuguese to take up arms for a while longer, it seems. This year, Spain also continues their many reforms, including the founding of a Spanish Imperial bank, the creation of factories for mass-production of Spanish army uniforms, and production of modern weaponry and training of troops.

In Transylvania, the Ottomans and Gábor Béthlen continue their campaign to the north. Béthlen is temporarily fairly inactive while forming a local Transylvanian army to continue his campaigns, but Báthory is in return heavily pressured and unable to field an army capable of defeating the army of Béthlen that is under construction. 20,000 troops, many recruited from Hungary, are expected to be ready by autumn, ready to campaign into northern Transylvania and defeat Báthory.

In Russia, Poland and Muscovy have decided to determine by a vote who should take over the position as Tsar. Both Spain and France send troops to supervise that the vote is carried out in a just way and maintain order, but the vote quickly turns dirty. With only the boyars allowed to vote, it is already beforehand met by sceptisicm and unrest among the other groups in Muscovy. The sudden death of Vorotynsky, one of the boyars who led the plotting against Vasili, immediately arises suspicion among the boyars, followed by accusation that Vasili was responsible for murdering the boyar. The Nizniy Novgorod boyars abandon their support for Vasili after his sudden decision to support the vote and abandon his promises to give them land from the illoyal boyars, but they refuse to vote for Sigismund either. As the vote ends in victory for the Polish heir, the unrest breaks out into full hostility. Due to the unclear conditions of the vote, which gives little information on whether it's the city of Muscovy or the entire faction that is to be ruled by the winner of the vote, there are immediately disputes in which neither the French nor Spanish neutral forces can intervene with certainty. The meeting ends without open hostilities due to the many attending troops, but the victory of the Polish heir is far from decisive from a political point of view. There are immediately protests in Nizniy Novgorod, with a refusal to let any men loyal to the Polish heir enter. The protests grow into a full-scale revolt, which denies the Polish heir any control over the area. Novgorod and Tver do not declare alliance to the revolt, but instead declare neutrality and independence of control of the Polish heir. The Polish heir is installed as ruler over the city of Muscovy, but with claims of the rest. Vasili is made a boyar, but his possessions in Nizniy Novgorod will not be respected by the rebels if he doesn't declare allegiance to them.

The Pope announces that both the Holy Roman Emperor, France and Spain are now paying the St Peter's Basilica tax. In celebration of this, ceremonies are held in Rome. A papal bull also gives France and Spain different parts of Africa as a protectorate. Congo, the gold coast and Cape of Good Hope as well as northern Madagascar and several East African Islands are French, while most of the remainder is made Spanish. This ignores Danish and Dutch colonies in Africa. French claims are also made to the Suez, even though it's currently in Ottoman hands.

The Netherlands announce that they will carry out projects to again build up Antwerp into the strong trade city it once was. French standing army reforms are officially completed. Swedish army reforms are officially completed. Sweden ends food imports from Poland and import the majority of their food from Denmark from now on. France boycotts Danish food imports, not yet known whether it's temporary or not. The boycott began after the Danish and French temporarily went hostile in negotiations which were resolved shortly after the boycott began. In response, Denmark raised the Sound Straits toll for all food exports from Poland going to France, resulting in a raised food price for all food bought by France. Some compensation was achieved by French food imports from their colonies, but not much.


BRANDENBURG

You had 13,000 troops before summer. You now have 12,500 troops, but the Danish forces have discussed sending more support than their current 2,000 men. An expensive reform previously launched has also granted you access to 2,000 homegrown troops and some 5,000 levies that you could call in. 2,000 mercenaries are also returning from Bohemia, now that the rebels there have been defeated. This gives you a total of 16,500 troops + 5,000 levies that could be called in.

1. distributing troops for garrisons. Some cities worth garrisoning are: Potsdam, town of Brandenburg, Jülich fortress, Berlin (if it could be recaptured), and your major cities in your Polish Duchy of Prussia. Currently you have 500 men in the town of Brandenburg that is under siege, none in Berlin which has been lost, 700 men in Potsdam, only 50 men in fortress Jülich, with 2,000 men in Prussia. Most of the remainder are in the countryside in your main army, which is led by yourself.

2. military aid from abroad. It seems like Tilly will be a lot more difficult to defeat than it previously seemed. However you have support from most of the Protestant north - they will allow you military access, allow you to retreat through their regions etc, so you have much land to fall back on even if it seems Tilly will be able to conquer much of your homelands. Unfortunately however the Protestant North can't give much more support than they have already given, so trying to negotiate more Danish, Dutch or Swedish support, or French support, would probably be necessary if a victory is to be achieved quickly enough to not damage your homelands severely in the long run. You could have diplomatic discussions (by PM) with Denmark, France, Netherlands, Sweden for this.

3. military operations with the main army
a. stay far out of action and take no risks at all. As shown by previous battles, Tilly is a skilled general and capable of forcing his opponents to battle and preventing them from escaping. Hopefully in the meantime the defenders of Brandenburg town and Potsdam will wear him down, and the French and Dutch attacks will divert him and force him to retreat, or in the meantime you will be able to gain support from abroad
b. wait for him to split up, then take a risk and attack any isolated force if possible, otherwise stay far out of action. This means medium risks for your main army, or higher risk in case Tilly pursues aggressively
c. raid Tilly's supply lines to hopefully give him higher losses during the winter. This means a risk of losing some cavalry, but the rest of the forces would stay far out of action and any risk unless Tilly pursues aggressively
d. do something else, specify what


ENGLAND

1. intervene in any way in any of the existing wars/conflicts? There's the situation in the HRE, and the Spanish attack on Genoa, as well as the situation in Russia

2. retaking most of southwest Ireland. Now it has been diplomatically resolved, but military operations are required to carry it out in practise. How many men will be sent and where will they strike first? Limerick and Cork are their major cities. The countryside west of Cork is a likely position from which the rebels would launch guerilla warfare and raids after losing these cities. The first Spanish base is in Cork and the other is at the coast at the eastern border of the territory of the rebels.
a. present the rebels with an offer to peacefully hand over everything but Cork. Say that Cork will remain independent and will be respected, but that the rest must be handed over in response to their crime. If they refuse to accept, do as threatened
b. formally declare war on them, and take everything but Cork. Lastly besiege Cork and offer them peace on the condition that they give up everything except Cork
c. state that they will have to hand over everything but Cork. If they refuse, conquer everything including Cork, then hand over Cork to them afterwards on the condition that they make peace. Preferably inform Spain that the conquest of Cork is only a temporary thing
d. or something else, specify what

3. possible reforms for your land army
a. carry out a reform for making the colonial governors responsbile for training their own troops, and hire mercenaries to fill the need if locals can't, with the ultimate goal of making the colonies completely self-supporting in terms of soldiers (this would initially probably lower the quality of colonial forces, but in the long run be much more practical and mean less transporting missions for troops back and forth), with only limited percentages of colonial forces being professionals from the main army. In the meantime, the army at home would be 17,000 men large, consisting of 14,000 local forces, 2,000 mercenaries and 1,000 higher quality Guards.
b. keep it as it is
c. make a cost efficiency reform to be able to extend home forces to 20,000 men and colonial forces to 7,000 men, while still having a quite large positive income each year
d. make a cost efficiency reform to be able to extend home forces to 30,000 men, by having a standing army of only 14,000 men and 16,000 conscripted levies
d. pass a reform for giving 2,000 of your forces flintlock muskets bought from abroad from France, Spain, HRE or other countries that have introduced these weapons. Make sure to use them in military operations as soon as possible to evaluate their performance to be able to later reform the entire army (the home forces in particular) with them


FRANCE

1. Genoa. You sent messages to communicate cooperation with Genoa shortly before the Spanish attack. The Genoese responded in a hastily written letter only a few weeks before the Spanish attack that they were interested in your suggested cooperation, but before you could respond the Spanish had invaded Genoa.
a. burn the letter and end attempts to contact Genoa
b. pressure Spain to leave Genoa on the threat of war
c. officially denounce the Spanish attack but do nothing
d. communicate as secretly as possible with Genoese locals and possible rebels to explain that you're sad about the Spanish attack, and that you will support them against Spain the best you can

2. war with the HRE, southern army
a. retreat the forward elements to Spaichingen where it will meet the siege force, in order to prevent splitting up and exposure to Wallenstein's possible attacks. Complete the siege and then march on east as soon as possible to be able to force Wallenstein and other enemies to interfere, thus forcing them to an engagement where you can defeat them and get your back clear
b. move the forward elements of the army west of Spaichingen to better secure the supply lines, while concentrating on completing the siege of the city. After that, don't march any further to avoid exposed supply lines over the winter
c. garrison the already conquered cities and retreat the main army to Franche-Comte or Luxembourg over the winter
d. something else, specify what

3. war with the HRE, northern army. There are some breeches in the defenses of Trier (but the fortifications are still very strong), and supplies in the city are expected to last for another year.
a. let the Dutch complete the siege of Cologne, and send most of your army to Trier and complete the siege of the city. Attempt an assault before winter, if successful garrison the city, otherwise continue the siege
b. as a, but if assault not successful, retreat home during the winter
c. besiege another city, specify which
d. do something else, specify what

4. desertion and disobedience. How punish captured deserters? How punish those who are pillaging in the wrong areas? Killing all guilty, disbanding, killing a few of the guilty, forcing them to do the most difficult operations, or having them sent to prison at home or something else?

5. the papal bull giving you Suez as a protectorate could hurt your relations with the Ottomans if you don't contact them with appropriate explanations. It would also be provocative against England. Furthermore, the Danish and Dutch colonies in Africa aren't respected by the bull. As such, the bull will either lose importantance and be ignored, or be followed but at the cost of severely damaged relations with many countries. If nobody complains, France can probably go on without any discussions, but complaints are likely to come and it's perhaps better to have discussions before they come

6. what is the French opinion of the correctness of the Tsar vote? Make an official statement

7. will France consider the Dutch taking over of Liége to be in accordance with all treaties, or a declaration of war from their part?

8. the votes in Belgium have been won by the Netherlands because the French minorities aren't concentrated to specific cities but more of minorities in each individual region. What further demands should France make to make sure the minorities are treated well?

9. food situation and Denmark. The economy is hurt by the increased food price, and your programs for becoming self-supporting are not yet completed.
a. resume buying of food from Denmark immediately
b. declare war on Denmark
c. in official statements try to arouse hatred towards Denmark among both Polish, French, Swedish, German and other people in response to the Sound Straits toll actions
d. continue the boycott for another half year, then start buying again
e. do something else, specify what


HRE and AUSTRIA

You have Tilly's force in Brandenburg, Wallenstein's force in the Palatinate, 5,000 men in Bohemia, and 5,000 men in Austria and Hungary for garrisoning. You also have 15,000 more levies that you called in and that will be available by next spring. Wallenstein has already received the reinforcement levies you requested

1. Tilly
a. capture Brandenburg and then besiege Potsdam. By taking these two cities Brandenburg will have lost many of their major possessions
b. quickly capture the town of Brandenburg, but after that retreat south and abandon operations here. Tilly can then train more Catholic League troops to replace the losses. It would also raise the currently low morale of the troops, and allow the forces to respond to the French and Dutch attacks from abroad. Furthermore, many of the Catholic League representatives want the Catholic League forces to primarily defend against the French expansion that threatens to reach Bavaria in a matter of a year or two, and worry about Brandenburg as a secondary concern
c. send Tilly to relieve Trier
d. send Tilly to relieve Cologne
e. send Tilly to join Wallenstein and fight the French Northern army. This army can't advance far before it runs into Protestant territories, and as such isn't as much of a threat to your important heartlands, but if destroyed before joining the Southern army it would demoralize both the Dutch and the remaining French
f. send Tilly to join Wallenstein and fight the French Southern army. This is perhaps the force that would be easiest to isolate, engage and destroy early on before the French armies join

2. Wallenstein
a. let him continue his raids but keep his army out of battle. Try to see if he can help you form a larger army based on his successful and cost efficient recruitment pattern
b. order him to, despite the high risk, attack the French at Spaichingen now that they are isolated and there are only 10,000 men there. Wallenstein have fewer men at the moment, but perhaps with the element of surprise he will be lucky and defeat the French
c. as b, but be careful and do not rush it. Try to make sure that the French are continuing advancing to the east and that the Spaichingen siege force will remain isolated before attacking. In the meantime, also send at least 3,000-5,000 troops to reinforce Wallenstein
d. just order him to fight defensively and concentrate on holding forts and wearing down the French by spying, sabotage and raids on their supply lines. The French are negotiating to help the Palatinate and if they do, it's necessary to have prepared good defenses because the French and the Palatinate would be quite strong if cooperating

3. diplomacy - try to come on better terms with some of your neighbors in order to be able to defeat all that are currently threating you. Choose zero or more:
a. try bribes and offers of money and/or favorable separate peace with one or more of the threatening opponents
b. try to take advantage of the threats between France and the Netherlands, and a favorable peace offer, to make the Netherlands exit the war
c. retreat from the Protestant North to remove much of the reason for Denmark to intervene more actively
d. call for assistance from Spain

4. Transylvania
a. send support of over 10,000 men to Báthory. This would enable him to hold out against Béthlen. You know that Báthory is loyal, but Béthlen could be interested in threatening your homelands.
b. do nothing until Báthory is dead, then establish friendly relations with the new ruler Béthlen
c. prepare an army to defend against Béthlen should he attack. This however requires mustering of new forces, or calling back forces from one of your many fronts
d. do nothing yet

5. Bohemia is currently calmer, meaning 3,000 men as garrison is probably enough to maintain internal order. But there are new outer threats - Transylvania and many Hungarians. If the Hungarians join Béthlen, and Béthlen tries to intervene in Hungary, you will need to form an army of at least 15,000 troops here. Your currently weakly defended Austria and Hungary are tempting targets that could make otherwise neutral Transylvanians and Ottomans become hostile. With the Genoese being conquered by Spain, and Spanish threats towards other Italian city states, the Italian city states no longer have resources to pull off a crusade, so the Pope is less likely to call for one, but he will support you in the other ways he promised to


NETHERLANDS

1. war with the HRE. Cologne defenses have been lightly breeched but an assault now would be costly. Supplies will be enough for another 2 years, but an assault probably easy within 1 year from now. Your forces have shown quite good discipline so far, without desertion or unnecessary pillaging. Morale is also quite high, and your Horse Guard formations are popular and have kept the morale and spirit among the other troops high.

2. France and Liége. Your taking of Liége might be challenged by France, seeing as the treaties were unclear in that aspect and it could be considered a transgression from your part. Be prepared for negotiations initiated by France, or initiate own negotiations if you feel it's necessary.

3. votes in Belgium. All votes seem to have turned out in your favor, because the French minorities were ... minorities. But this will perhaps not keep France happy, if their goal was to get guarantees for the just treatement of French minorities in the region. Depending on how relations with France due to other things turn out, the vote results could: a. be used for propaganda, b. together with further guarantees be seen as proof that you're doing what you can for these minorities, c. or something else

4. Papal bull (see French option 5) - negotiate with France here or the bull might be damaging to your colonial activities

5. support to Brandenburg? You might wish to communicate by PM to Brandenburg to increase or withdraw your amount of mercenary support, and for coordinating further operations after you've taken Cologne


OTTOMAN EMPIRE

1. the raids from the Crimean tatars?
a. prepare for a war to extend your influence here. Controlling the Crimea and forming it into a strong naval base could be useful. That the tatars are giving you a casus belli is a good thing
b. try to improve defenses a bit, but carry out no offensive operations. Instead decrease the size of the called in army again in order to not hurt your economy

2. the papal bull (see France option 5) could be dangerous. Have negotiations with France or others involved. Both Spain and England have interests in the Suez, as have the Ottomans. Does this whole thing mean France will use the bull to take control over the Suez from the Ottomans? Their construction of their fortified trading posts could imply this

3. Transylvania?
a. support Béthlen militarily for some more time. This will keep him loyal and happy but also make him more powerful in that he defeats Báthory with fewer losses and faster
b. stop supporting Béthlen militarily. This will give him higher losses and a slower victory, but his weakening will prevent him from efficiently breaking out of Ottoman control
c. as a, but also make sure he goes to war with the Habsburgs. This will hurt both the Habsburgs and Béthlen a lot, and the Ottomans can step in when both are weak. If this works, the Ottomans will both appear as Béthlen's supporters and as saviours when they intervene in the HRE affairs

4. your deals with factions abroad for acquiring their ship types have so far not given you much. Negotiate again with all the involved parts and make sure you acquire the ships you were promised. Report to me how many of their ships (not galleys, that is) you acquired.


POLAND

1. Vasili
a. try to make Vasili join your side, by offering him land as a noble in Muscovy or Poland. This will perhaps make him a happy follower of the Polish heir, in defeating the Russian revolts
b. try to make Vasili join your side by pointing out that he must defeat the Russian rebels in order to keep his land holdings as a boyar in the Nizniy Novgorod area. This wouldn't make him a happy follower of you, and perhaps make him likely to prefer joining the rebels as that would also allow him to keep some of his land. But perhaps it'll be enough to make him help you
c. give him new land in Poland, Muscovy or elsewhere, but do not force him to assist you in any way, only make sure he promises not to assist the rebels
d. give him new land next to the Swedish border as a way of making his interests conflict with Sweden
e. break the promise made to him and just imprison him, kill him, or making him a monk (specify which), declaring him a criminal

2. what if Vasili joins the rebels?
a. announce him as illegal ruler and make outside nations support your claims
b. try to assassinate him before he can leave
c. try to imprison him or kill him or make him a monk (specify which)

3. the rebels. An estimated 17,000 men have already formed up in Nizniy Novgorod - much of the previous army controlled by Vasili
a. try to deal with the Nizniy Novgorod rebels fast so they don't spread the revolt. Hopefully the current messy state of things will mean they're still quite weak
b. try to strike Tver, Novgorod and Pskov quickly before they declare allegiance to the Nizniy Novgorod revolt
c. do nothing except defend Muscovy

4. the Polish heir being admitted as ruler of Muscovy. Try to make as many other leaders as possible admit him as rightful ruler of Muscovy in order to strengthen your arguments and authority in the area

5. the Pope's Peter's Church tax is now payed by all other Catholic countries except Poland
a. start paying it
b. don't pay it, try to make the Pope understand that you're at war and promise to start paying it once that has been resolved
c. just skip paying it


RUSSIA

1. your lands as a boyar are mostly located in Nizniy Novgorod, which is now subject to a revolt against the Polish heir. You lost much of your influence in Nizniy Novgorod by accepting the vote idea, but perhaps there's still a chance to join the rebels. If the rebels are defeated you will probably get back your lands, but it's not certain.
a. declare allegiance to the Polish heir, on the condition that you're as a boyar given new lands in Muscovy or Poland. This will if successful give you the amount of land you had as a boyar before
b. join the Polish heir without any conditions. Help him defeat the rebels and try to reclaim your boyar holdings in the Nizniy Novgorod area.
c. declare the vote invalid and try to join the rebels. Try to see what Spain and France say regarding the correctness of the vote
d. ask for asylum abroad (by PM) to protect you from the Polish king and heir, and try to flee

2. depending on what you choose above, what else do you wish to do? Trade? Military operations? Diplomatic discussions? Speech to the side you join (for example, what do you wish to say to the rebels if you join them, regarding why you accepted the vote treaty)? Etc.


SPAIN

1. what is the Spanish opinion of the correctness of the Tsar vote? Make an official statement

2. your "marines" have suggested that some of your old galleys could be rebuilt, fitted with one or two cannons, and used as quick landing vehicles for faster insertions from sea. Do you wish to try constructing a prototype extra small cannon and rebuild one or two galleys to try it out?

3. diplomatic relations with France. France have apparently been negotiating with Genoa for cooperation before you attacked. Only now did you find out the extent of these negotiations - it's likely that the conquest will have worsened relations with France. Relations with France could be hurt further by how the French have claimed Suez in the Papal "African protectorate" Bull

4. diplomatic relations with England, Netherlands and Denmark. By admitting the bull you will have papal established claims to the parts of Africa suggested by the bull, but in return this will conflict with Dutch, Danish and English colonies in the area. Mainly the French regions in the bull are already to a large extent colonized by both Dutch and Danish. By claiming the bull to be just, you will risk hostility with these nations and probably also England, but if you denounce it you will worsen relations with France. Being neutral is however a difficult balancing act... None of the options are easy, but you probably have to choose one

5. your debts are nearly gone, but the repaying speed didn't increase as expected, due to your new reforms. However, the repaying speed is still quite high so it'll not delay the repaying that much. You can expect to be free of debts in 2 years at the most


SWEDEN

1. Denmark - the Danish sound straits toll has been raised for Polish food transports to France, resulting in a weakened French economy but also in weakened Polish income for as long as it remains. Do you wish to use this as a casus belli for attacking Denmark, and attack Denmark now, or do you prefer this to remain so Poland can be weakened and ripe for an attack later?

2. intervention in the HRE. You have sent 2,000 mercs to Brandenburg. Do you wish to send more? If so, how many and to where? There are several fronts to support - Brandenburg's defensive front, the Dutch-French Cologne front, the French Trier operation and the French Ulm operation.

3. your land army reforms are pretty much completed. The construction of the land fort to the west is also progressing well. Your naval reforms are progressing slowly, but are not behind schedule. Your economy has been improved by weapons trade with Brandenburg and others, and you have a healthy surplus. Some possible projects to invest in (choose zero or more):
a. a strong naval base in Kalmar
b. encouraging settlement and forming of a strong city in connection to the fort you're building inland near Elfsborg fortress
c. foundation of another university

4. the messy situation in Russia will certainly hurt your trade there for as long as it remains, by some 30% perhaps. Perhaps you wish to consider to intervene in one way or another?
a. diplomatical intervention - declare the vote incorrect and declare Vasili the rightful Tsar
b. military intervention - attack Poland again
c. military intervention - attack Novgorod, currently controlled by nobody and declared as almost independent. Attacking Novgorod could however be seen as an excuse for the rebels, Vasili or the Polish heir to attack you at a later stage


VENICE

1. Spain and France - both seem to be eager to expand their influence in northern Italy. This could threaten the independence of Venice
a. try to form an alliance/pact among the northern Italian states to resist these threats. The Italian city states with their internal rivarly aren't known for such cooperation, but perhaps a loose military defense pact would work
b. try to improve relations with France, to gain protectorate status from them (negotiate with France by PM). Make sure to get a favorable treaty which recognizes the independence of Venice as much as possible, but at the same time means France signs a treaty to protect Venice, which gives them a cause (and preferably also a duty) for attacking Spain is Spain attacks Venice. Offering exclusive trade benefits to France could aid the negotiations
c. as b, but form the treaty with Spain against France instead
d. try to get the support of papal statements as a means of protection
e. do nothing yet

2. intervention in any existing conflicts. Do you wish to send aid to anyone in the ongoing conflicts? Assisting the HRE could improve relations with the pope, but would hurt relations with France

3. your shipyards are currently producing some of the best ships available. You have a contract for selling warships to France. Do you wish to abort it, continue it or extend it? It included selling a total of 5 ships to them, one each year, for 5 years. A few have already been delivered. Depending on your diplomatic strategy elsewhere this could be important. If you choose to cooperate with France you might however still choose to abort the treaty due to the outer threats situation, in which case an explanation to France might be necessary

4. the Ottomans. They have recently opened trade with Christian nations again. The Suez is being formed into an important trading point for France and Spain, among others. A few Dutch and English merchants have found their way here, but they're less active here. If the Ottomans are choosing a more open attitude to them, it means Venice has a chance of reestablishing their trade empire strength in the Mediterranean, possibly becoming very dangerous competitors to both France, Spain and Portugal. This will have two consequences - improved economy, and many new enemies. If the trade is built out, you must probably negotiate a favorable trade deal or protectorate status with either of France or Spain temporarily until your improved income can allow improvements for your army. Negotiate by PM with the Ottomans regarding reestablishing Venetian trading posts in Constantinople/Istanbul and the new interesting Suez region.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Ignoramus, once you've chosen your faction I'll add options for that faction above. I just posted this chapter right away because it had been delayed so much up till now.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Btw I need answers to a few questions that were never answered: was Riga handed over to the Polish or did it remain in Swedish hands in the Polish-Swedish peace treaty?

[Lord Winter]

Riga is polish

[Kagemusha]

Great chapter Legio!:bow: There has happened a minor mistake.I didnt withdraw my mercenary support from Brandenburg.No Sir! I chose this option:

2. your mercenary support to Brandenburg
b. keep it at least another turn, for diplomatical reasons

Kage~:)

[Kagemusha]

Republics representative at Protestant meeting stands up and says:

The Republic of Netherlands have received offical news from Germany that Tilly and Berlin is no more sieged by Protestant forces. The gentleman and Field Marshal Tilly has caused us so much grievances that we suggest that we place someone who has command talent to lead the troops in the area of Brandenburg.The republic of Netherlands suggest that the Swedish king takes the protestant forces there under his command and destroys Tilly and his forces.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Great chapter Legio!:bow: There has happened a minor mistake.I didnt withdraw my mercenary support from Brandenburg.No Sir! I chose this option:

2. your mercenary support to Brandenburg
b. keep it at least another turn, for diplomatical reasons

Kage~:)
ok, I thought you meant to withdraw them at the end of the turn (thus June/July or whatever I wrote). But I'm sorry for misunderstanding. The upside is that because this doesn't affect things that happened in the chapter it means I can correct the error. Edit: fixed now :wall:

@Destroyer of Hope: ok thanks!

[Kagemusha]

ok, I thought you meant to withdraw them at the end of the turn (thus June/July or whatever I wrote). But I'm sorry for misunderstanding. The upside is that because this doesn't affect things that happened in the chapter it means I can correct the error. Edit: fixed now :wall:

@Destroyer of Hope: ok thanks!

No probs Legio.~:) If it had effected anything i wouldnt have mentioned at all. You are doing amazing job on keeping all the strings in your hands.:bow:

[Marshal Murat]

Poland isn't losing income because all Denmark food transports are Polish in nature, with the exception of Dutch trading.

If this in-correct, then I suggest France send troops to ravage the northern territories of Denmark to force trade.

[Ignoramus]

Can I be Venice?

[Franconicus]

May I make a proposal?

Let's agree that all have to end hte negotiations and send their orders to Legio within two weeks. (that is Nov. 27th)

I someone cannot, for example if he is on holiday, or has to work :laugh4: or something else, he makes an announcement and the period is extended by one week - for all of us.

Of course, Legio has all the time he needs to write the story.

Is this alright?

[Kagemusha]

Its fine by me.:2thumbsup:

[Rodion Romanovich]

Can I be Venice?
yes, I'll add you to the player list, and add some options for you to the chapter 10 post above as soon as I can

[Rodion Romanovich]

Poland isn't losing income because all Denmark food transports are Polish in nature, with the exception of Dutch trading.
Indirectly it could, if France decides to as a result choose to slightly redirect their food imports a bit. France is the only part to lose something in the short term though.

[IrishArmenian]

Very good proposal, Franc. I agree. Of course, being the forum troller I am, I normally jump on the chapters and respond within 1 or 2 days.

[Ignoramus]

The Most Serene Republic of Venice:

Doge: Marcantonio Memmo

Heir: Nominated by the Senate

Historical Alliances:
United Provinces
France

Goals:
Maintaining its position in Italy, and gaining a monopoly of the trade in the Levant.

[Franconicus]

I have the feeling that I have a desastreous misunderstanding. Legio, if you write::inquisitive:


CHAPTER 10 - August 1st, 1613 AD
...this chapter will affect the events from August 1st, 1613 AD to March 1st, 1614 AD

Does that mean that the chapter is for the period August to March and that the next decision decide what happens during the next summer, or does that mean that the chapter describes the situation of August and that the next decisions will influence the winter season?

[Kagemusha]

Public Message from the Republic of Netherlands to holy father.

We have heard the news of Papal bulla which gives territory in Africa to Monarchies of Spain and France. Has the holy father made somekind of mistake by claiming that South Africa is French territory when the Republic has a colony in the Eastern South Africa? Also according to our understanding our friends the Danish have a colony in West Africa and now its proclaimed as territory of the sayed powers? What is the reasoning behind this kind of bulla that interferes with the Sovereign Kingdom of Denmark and Republic of Netherlands.

Embassador of Republic

[Warluster]

If you dont want to play anymore can i hve your position?

[Rodion Romanovich]

I have the feeling that I have a desastreous misunderstanding. Legio, if you write::inquisitive:

Does that mean that the chapter is for the period August to March and that the next decision decide what happens during the next summer, or does that mean that the chapter describes the situation of August and that the next decisions will influence the winter season?
oh ~:( the first text means that right now, at the time of reading, it's August 1st. The chapter describes what has happened. The decisions will affect the period indicated by the second figure - i.e. the winter. I'm sorry the way of writing was a bit ambiguous I must admit! :wall: Side note: By the way, the initial idea was that chapters would sometimes vary in length, but I abandoned the idea and kept the same way of writing. That's why there were two figures and not just one, which would have been more clear.

[Rodion Romanovich]

May I make a proposal?

Let's agree that all have to end hte negotiations and send their orders to Legio within two weeks. (that is Nov. 27th)

I someone cannot, for example if he is on holiday, or has to work :laugh4: or something else, he makes an announcement and the period is extended by one week - for all of us.

Of course, Legio has all the time he needs to write the story.

Is this alright?
yes I absolutely agree. When the chapters take more than 2 weeks, two bad things happen:
1. I lose control and forget some things :shrug:
2. people start discussing diplomatic things that should really happen the next turn :wink:

[Marshal Murat]

I am very pleased with this current chapter, and cannot await the next chapter. This is very intriguing, and I can guess you enjoy only having to advise and write the next chapter while we bicker.

[Incongruous]

Would I be able to have an extension of maybe half a week?
I have exams at the moment:dizzy2:

[Ignoramus]

Legio, can you make some PM space in your inbox? Thanks. Perhaps you ought to request from one of the mods a larger limit to the maximum limit of PM's you're allowed.

[Franconicus]

Legio, clear your mailbox, please! Thousands of messangers are waiting.:help:

[Incongruous]

Hey guys I receive PM's is because he was banned.
He seems pretty pissed off to be honest, I am not sure about the details but here's a message he wanted posted.

"The reason why you can't send PMs to me isn't that the PM box is full,
but that the moderator 'Ser Clegasshole' decided to ban me and accuse
me of 'promoting murder' because I didn't share his view on abortion in
the backroom... As a result I can neither send PMs, receive PMs, nor
post any explanation in the 17th century thread. I'd like to continue the
17th century interactive in some other forum, possibly the total war
center, or some invisionfree board. I'd like to hear everybody's opinion
on that, and suggestions for where to continue the story. I'll not log
in as a member to the .org after this insult from Ser Clegasshole, who
not only banned me because of this but also deleted my goodbye message
to all people at the .org, that I posted under another user name. I
haven't saved it on my HD so I can't repeat it, but in short I'd like to
send my greetings to all people I've come to know here at the .org -
those from Interactive histories, those from the AoVaF mod, the modd
ing community, the people I've had discussions with in the backroom
and all who have contributed with their humor here. Finally I request the
.org to delete me as a user from the boards because I don't wish my
account information to remain in their database."

This seems pretty seriuos, as seriuos as it can get on an online forum.
I belive we have an abligation to find out what the hell happened.:no:

[Incongruous]

However he did seem to have some pretty err.. odd ideas about abortion.
Ahhum, something I would not have expected.
However If he was banned for what he said, that seem increadibly unfair.

[King Kurt]

I have also recieved the same message from legio and we are in contact via email. When I have any news I will post on this thread.
Kraxis - as a moderator, is there anything you can do?

[Kagemusha]

What a terrible turn of events. This is just other thing that confirms that any sane patrons should stay out of the backroom. Only thing that happends there is that you get into trouble. How could Legio continue to host this game with junior members pm box?GAH!:wall:

[Marshal Murat]

Wow, talk about a blow.
I'd prefer contiuning it here.

[Warluster]

Whats going to happen now?

[Franconicus]

We wait for a couple of days. If Legio wants to return, he will be able then.

If not, we have to talk how we will handle the situation. There are several options.

[King Kurt]

Legio has contacted me by email to say he is looking to set the interactive on another forum - address below

http://z8.invisionfree.com/17thcentury/index.php?act=idx

Perhaps we could discuss there what to do. Personally I would like to keep it here, but understand that Legio is really annoyed about what happened to him, to the extent that I am not sure if he would want to return, even if he could.

[Franconicus]

I'd rather stay here.
Legio has his member status again. It is up to him whether he continues or not.

[SwordsMaster]

Yep. I'd rather stay here also.

[Kagemusha]

I agree with Franc and Swordmaster,while those two seem to be cooperating all the time.:laugh4: I hope we can put the happened matter behind us and continue this great game gentlemen.:bow:

[SwordsMaster]

I agree with Franc and Swordmaster,while those two seem to be cooperating all the time.:laugh4: I hope we can put the happened matter behind us and continue this great game gentlemen.:bow:


Hey, hey! We'll see if you are still laughing when we rule the world!

[IrishArmenian]

I echo Franc.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Hi everybody! It appears that the warning that gives 2 days ban means 3 days ban... I've put up a new board as you've heard, and will decide soon whether to use it or stay here. First however, I'll want to discuss the matter in the watchtower thread and get an explanation (it is currently closed, so I'll have to wait past the weekend). Apart from having made research on the subject which resulted in the ban and warning, I'd like to discuss (in the watchtower thread about me) that I don't feel the warning can be traced to any forum rule, and the fact that my post was immediately considered (without asking any question), as completely serious and an honest opinion held by me, rather than what could have been a joke, or - which happened to be the case - a thought-provoking addition to an otherwise quite predictable debate. My post was an attempt to present the rhetorical question: why is the cliché abortion debate always about pro or against abortion up to the 12th week (or whatever date some almighty God or judge/lawyer has decided it to be)? In a bigger perspective, and also in many religions and cultures which have survived to this date, the practise of infanticide is considered perfectly normal. As the research post that I will post also indicates, in ancient societies it was pretty much considered NOT natural to disapprove of abortion - an idea which might seem as strange to modern man as the fact that in the ancient period men who wore pants were considered sissies while those who wore skirts were considered "real men". What I'm disappointed with in the moderating are these things:
1. the fact that the warning came completely unpredictably, and came as a total surprise to me, even though I've read all the forum rules
2. that my post contained a thought-provoking addition to the debate, rather than the stating of an opinion
3. that the post was immediately considered to be my own complete and full opinion, and that many things which I didn't say were "deduced" from the post without having been explicitly said by me. My technique of discussion is to mention all things I can remember, then hopefully someone will, rather than accusing me of being a murderer, ask questions about "if you say A, do you really approve of B?", so I'm given a chance to answer.
4. the fact that the accusation of "promoting murder" is an insult both to me, and to those modern cultures and religions which do approve of the practise. Calling them murderous is quite hypocritical if based upon Christian or Islamic ideals, considering that Christianity and Islam (and non-religious/secular society forms derived from the religious ideals of these religions), unlike these small remaining minority religions and cultures, were spread by the sword and the threat of death to those who didn't convert

As for my own personal opinion on infanticide, I don't think infanticide is needed in modern society, and it would also make many people uneasy to carry it out, so it has no real purpose. But I wish to ask the question of why it is taboo in western society, and how mankind so suddenly came to believe that a view which goes contrary to most ancient cultures and several cultures still existing to this date would be "murderous". This quite restricted - a discriminating view on several minority religions and cultures, strikes me as founded in little else than primitive emotions and is, like the pro or against abortion arguments, a question of taste.

If the Guild maintains the view that cultures who see infanticide below a reasonable age, say a few weeks, a month, or maybe up to the extreme of 3 months, are murderous cultures and calling it "promotion of murder" when I add an, in my opinion thought-provoking and quite constructive contribution to the discussion, I'll have to reevaluate whether I want to continue discussing in this forum. At the very least, it means I'd stop discussing in the backroom. This would technically mean I'm capable of continuing to post in the Chapter house, but the insulting accusations of "promoting murder" together with the warning points are, unless the moderators realize that their judgement is solely based on a misunderstanding of my post and putting words into my mouth, enough for me to as a matter of principle leave. Most sensible people, including me, agree that you can't have any requirements on what view the forum maintains, and that you can choose between accepting their views, or leaving. As I have explained, I'm inclined to choosing the second option in case it turns out that this misunderstanding remains. A fool would stay, and continue being surprised by receiving in their opinion unpredictable warnings, and as a result only get disgruntled and feel unjustly treated, something I, not being a masochist, would like to avoid.

Once the watchtower backroom is opened again and I've discussed the matter there I'll inform you of whether the 17th century interactive will continue here, or in the other forum.

[Franconicus]

Legio, relax!

This is not the place to do this discussion. If you have problems with the rules in the backroom, it may be wise to leave it. Sometimes it is not worth to find out who's right and who's wrong, sometimes it is. You have to decide that.:inquisitive:

However, I cannot see how this effects posting here in Kraxis' realm. Do you have any trouble with him?

[Rodion Romanovich]

The post above should be completely empty of anything that could be considered against the rules. It was an explanation to you guys. The real post, including research, will be posted in the watchtower thread. I felt it was necessary to also here explain that the accusations of "promoting murder" were completely unfounded. I wouldn't want to hold this game to a bunch who would believe I was someone who was "promoting murder".

[Marshal Murat]

Thank you for this explination, but is it doing much here?

[Incongruous]

I agree, legio, just let it go. I gues you know not to do any thought provoking anymore.
It obviously gets taken very seriously.

[Rodion Romanovich]

@Bopa: yep :2thumbsup:

@all: just so you know, my PM box is open now, so send your PMs again! If there are some I haven't answered (that were sent to me before the PM box was locked), tell me.

[Kagemusha]

Great!Now we can spam your pm box full again!:2thumbsup: Excpect multiple questions from the Republic soon.~:cheers:

[King Kurt]

Statement from the Court of King James to the Protestant meeting in Denmark

King James welcomes the progress made in making Europe a place where all christian worship is tolerated. When the irreligious bigotry of the HRE emperor is overcome, Europe will be a better place, especially as the emperor uses the cloak of religion to hide his naked ambition and lust for land. Religion has no part in matters of state.
Which brings us to the matter of the Pope's prononcement on Africa and the New World. What right has the Pope to make such prounoncements on the matters of other soverign states - we do not tell him how to pray, so he should leave such matters to the rulers of Europe.
The Court of King James calls upon the Pope to rescind his staement or face the consequences.
Signed this day

King James the First of England and Sixth of Scotland.

[Incongruous]

Toleration.
You, who's nation has so readily puged itself of true Christians cannot speak of toleration. Religion, this is the foundation of Christian Europe! Just because you have so little backbone as to not simply declare war on the grounds of a true Machiavellian prince. Does not justify this spinless preening behind such an alien thing as Religious teleration.
I am at war with Brandenbourg not because of its protestant faith, but because of its rebellious nature. Denmark shall soon feel the brunt of Imperial savagery never again to claim any Baltic amitions, the Poles shall take great pleasure in destroying her, as shall we. Yet we do not wish any territorial expansion, we shall merley break our enemies then leave them.
Until we see the steel of English troops you seem a yapping nagg at the heels of our mount.

Imperial Government of Germany.

[Kagemusha]

Has the Kaiser gone mad? Do you really think that you have any hope against combined forces of France,England,Sweden,Denmark,Netherlands and Brandenburg?
I think that we need a new and not so zealous Kaiser.

The embassador of Netherlands

[Warluster]

Can I play as a nation? Anyone not replying or want to drop out? Pretty please with a cherry on top?

[Csargo]

Can I take up Brandenburg again? I've finally got things in order. If not that's fine Legio.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Can I take up Brandenburg again? I've finally got things in order. If not that's fine Legio.
I'm afraid Brandenburg has already got another player, so it's not possible... There's a queue at the moment:
- Warluster
- Csar
Joining is only allowed if some existing player drops out

[SwordsMaster]

Hey, Legio, just a heads up, there were a few questions in my last PM that I would like to see answered before I make further decisions.

Cheers

PS. Glad to see your conflict resolve itself

[Ignoramus]

Statement from the Court of the Most Serene Republic of Venice to King Philip III of Spain.

We are greatly displeased with your interference in Italian affairs. Go home and continue your senseless slaughter of Protestants. We warn you not to interfere anymore with our affairs.

Marcantonio Memmo, Doge of Venice.

[SwordsMaster]

Statement from the Court of the Most Serene Republic of Venice to King Philip III of Spain.

We are greatly displeased with your interference in Italian affairs. Go home and continue your senseless slaughter of Protestants. We warn you not to interfere anymore with our affairs.

Marcantonio Memmo, Doge of Venice.


Response of the spanish embassador:

Oh, of course the Doge must have a much deeper understanding of spanish affairs than His Catholic Majesty, and of course he must know that His Catholic majesty may choose to ignore the threats of the Most Serene Republic. Since when are venetian affairs the same as the affairs of Genoa or other italian princes?

Marie of Medici, when she joined the spanish court that accepted her with open arms, asked the king, as a personal favour, to interfere and defend the claims her family has in Italy, as a gentleman, His Majesty could not refuse.

His Catholic Majesty has instructed me to inform You that he has no intention of striking into Venice unless he is provoked, and also that if the latter happens, he has the means necessary for doing so.

His Majesty has also instructed me to say that the nature of this discussion might be better contemplated in private (by PM) and will await your messenger.

[SwordsMaster]

Statement from the Court of King James to the Protestant meeting in Denmark

King James welcomes the progress made in making Europe a place where all christian worship is tolerated. When the irreligious bigotry of the HRE emperor is overcome, Europe will be a better place, especially as the emperor uses the cloak of religion to hide his naked ambition and lust for land. Religion has no part in matters of state.
Which brings us to the matter of the Pope's prononcement on Africa and the New World. What right has the Pope to make such prounoncements on the matters of other soverign states - we do not tell him how to pray, so he should leave such matters to the rulers of Europe.
The Court of King James calls upon the Pope to rescind his staement or face the consequences.
Signed this day

King James the First of England and Sixth of Scotland.

Will King James be so foolish as to attack the Holy Father? He must know that all christian nations will unite to defend him.

May I also remind King James that He has no authority to tell the Holy Father how to pray, but that the Hly Father is also a sovereign in His land, and can therefore recognise boundaries as deemed necessary.

Spain will recognise the bull, but will allow those not content to abandon spanish land and return home.

[Franconicus]

The French Intendand for Colonies and Foreign Trade, Cardinal Richelieu, wants to inform:

Slaves can boost your economy and make the lives of the noble and rich men more pleasant. Who would not want to be served by strong black men and beautiful ebony maidens? The French colonies can deliver to every European country as well as into the colonies.

Please contact the next agent. Code: ebony.



The French Intendand for Colonies and Foreign Trade, Cardinal Richelieu, wants to inform:

The French authorities will not accept the illegal export of slaves from Africa. Autorities have the order to intercept every illegal slave ship. :skull: :smash:

[Kagemusha]

To the French Monarchy

What does France mean by the illegal export of slaves from Africa? Are you talking about smugglers that dont pay their taxes?

The Republics embassador in France

[Franconicus]

To the French Monarchy

What does France mean by the illegal export of slaves from Africa? Are you talking about smugglers that dont pay their taxes?

The Republics embassador in France

Yes, criminals. All those who try to hunt, buy or steal slaves from the French prtectorates without the permission of the court.

Those criminals disturb the order and affect the Christianing of the heathens.

[IrishArmenian]

Has the Kaiser gone mad? Do you really think that you have any hope against combined forces of France,England,Sweden,Denmark,Netherlands and Brandenburg?
I think that we need a new and not so zealous Kaiser.

The embassador of Netherlands
Sir, I believe you have forgotten the forces of the Ottoman Empire. Holy Roman Emperor, you cannot win, and to preserve the Roman branch of the Hapsburgs, you must stand down, or you will truly fall. Such a coalition among Europe has never been seen before and truly is something to be feared.
Holy Roman Emperor, you may hide behind your mask of Bravado and pride but I see right through it. In the interest of your people, let alone yourself, ask for forgiveness and you shall recieve it. We are all Christian and we will forgive you.

[Incongruous]

The Imperial Government.

You are no longer any of our concern Rebel.
The Turk is busy expanding his dominion into Hungary, where yet more Christians die, due to the incompotence of the denegrates who rule France.
What is there to fear from BrandenBourg? We have Broken them. Denmark is but living on borrowed time. France is like an overfed pig, to large to miss the piercing lunge of our Lance.

[IrishArmenian]

What of the English? They are the most powerful nation in the Protestant Coalition, at least in my mind.
These nations may not frighten you alone, but they are a force to be reckoned with together. Even your stubborn mind must agree on that. I will put it into words you can explain: Gunpowder is not that threatening unless it has a flame to ignite it. A neigboring country may not pose a threat, but along with his brothers in arms he is. A sword must be forged of many materials, and still then it needs a hand to plunge itself into an Emperor's heart.
(Out of Character) Bopa, you "are" a great Holy Roman Emperor! Have you ever acted before?

[Randarkmaan]

Vasily, I must warn you of not believing the Emperor's boasts about not fearing anyone, his Empire is tearing itself apart, both Brandeburg, though I must admit he may have won there, and Bohemia have revolted. His empire is nothing but a loose coalition of states and their leaders would stab each other in the back at the first time the oppurtinity arises. The reason for all this tough talk on his part is because he fears us and unison against some external threat is the only way he can unite some of his people to his cause.

[Incongruous]

(Out of Character) Bopa, you "are" a great Holy Roman Emperor! Have you ever acted before?

Hahaha!
Thanks for the compliment, I thought that there was need of some kind of Hotspur or Firebrand character just to stir things up.
Yes I do act, won best Drama student award this year:2thumbsup:

[IrishArmenian]

Very good. You seem to be the shot of adrenaline that this game needs. Without you, we'd need someone else to "light the fuse". Congrats on the award, by the way.
Back to Tzar Vasili...
Dear Sultan, I was aware of said fears. His bravado is backed up by a band of drunken peasants who call themselves an army.

[Franconicus]

We see that the Kaiser has a new outfit - he is wearing the dress of a priest.
If this means that he is willing to spend his life in the spiritual seclision of an abbey - we support this.

If this means that his insane religious fanatism has reached a new height - we have the right means to heal it.

P.S.: I will post my move as soon as I received a reply from LEGIO.

[Kagemusha]

Has many of us committed their decisions already?Just asking to know should i post mine too.:2thumbsup:

[King Kurt]

Bad news - it would appear that Legio has been banned again. He has emailed me to say that he can't post, PM etc. Moreover, this appears to have happened without warning. Possibly it is a hiccup in the software - I am going to ask the mods to see if this is the case. However, if it is not, then Legio would like to move the interactive to the other forum.

So if you were expecting a PM from Legio, that is why he has not been in contact - i will post again when I know more. If anybody wants to contact legio, then I suggest you use the other forum for now.

[Warluster]

Oh no! Im doomed! Im doomed! Why does technology always do that!:cry: :cry: :shame: :shame: :shame: :shame: :end: :end: :end: :computer: :computer:

[King Kurt]

I have posted on the watchtower to ask what has happened to Legio.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1327386#post1327386

It might be worth others posting in his general support if we want the interactive to continue on this forum as opposed to another. From his email, he appears to have been banned without warning and apparently without reason - which seems unfair.

[Franconicus]

I tell you it is the Kaiser. He is doing everything to stop the game before his reign crushes.

Kaiser, this is my last warning. Stop using these lousy tricks or face the consequences! :whip:

:laugh4:

[Warluster]

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I need 17th century!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!
Now where was i? right, please visit the website and chech it out, if you fet onto and get it running it may even be more fun than this one if possbile! Try it and make a 17th century interactive community!

[Franconicus]

So what?
Do we find a way to continue the story the way we used to?
Do we want to find another arrangement to continue the story?
Do we stop and discuss the result? Maybe declare the French victory?

[King Kurt]

Franc

I am sure all of us would like to continue here with Legio. According to the members list Legio is a full member - but as of the 5th December he couldn't post - according to what he posted on the other forum. I asked in the watchroom about this, but haven't really had an answer. Legio has disappeared as well.
I will email him to ask what is happening and let you all know.

As for a total french victory - slightly presumious I would assume:laugh4:

[SwordsMaster]

I would also like to continue here. Or elsewhere. As of a french victory... The old spanish lion still has some teeth left...

[Incongruous]

A few mangled stumps are hardly teeth, the French dentist has seen to that.:laugh4:

I would rather continue here than move somewhere else.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Member status is suddenly back, I think. Must have been a bug

[Franconicus]

Hooray!
:dancinglock: :cheerleader: :thrasher: :elephant:

The King and His government is glad to see Legio back. He wants to wish him good luck for the rest of the story. Additionally He wants to warn the Emperor not to try any manipulations again. Our Royal patience is exhausted!

[Rodion Romanovich]

Decisions needed:
- Netherlands
- remaining decisions for Ottomans
- Sweden
- Venice
correct me if I'm wrong

[Kagemusha]

Our scribes will send our decisions immediately.Sorry about our slowness.:oops:

[Randarkmaan]

What decisions remain? I just can't remember :embarassed:

[Rodion Romanovich]

Actually none on second thought. I found the answers among your diplomatic exchanges etc.

[Incongruous]

umm I can't remember sending you any decisions. Did I?

[Rodion Romanovich]

You are correct, I haven't got your decisions yet

[Kagemusha]

Are there still many who havent posted their replies?Cant wait for the next chapter.:2thumbsup:

[Rodion Romanovich]

yep, a few still haven't posted replies

[Rodion Romanovich]

Please post your decisions as soon as possible!
- Sweden
- Venice

[SwordsMaster]

Cool! we're back! I was away due to work for a few days, but it is nice to see the ball rolling again.

[Warluster]

Anyone who has given in, anyone who does not want to continue, if so, just hand your nation to me!:yes: :grin3:

[SwordsMaster]

Anyone who has given in, anyone who does not want to continue, if so, just hand your nation to me!:yes: :grin3:

Man, I think everyone got the message. You keep repeating it every few posts. Relax.:balloon2:

[Kagemusha]

Btw Ignoramus have been MIA for quiet some time already. Are we waiting for his answers?Edit: Oh crap wrong info.I checked his profile and he was on yesterday.

[SwordsMaster]

Still someone left to reply? Come on guys! I do not want to go on holidays without a new chapter

[Rodion Romanovich]

Well, I'll post one even without Ignoramus replies then. It'll probably be ready before this Friday. Ignoramus' reply shouldn't affect this turn that much since it was mostly diplomatical stuff etc. and things that I could assume he did this turn even if he sends it in next turn.

[King Kurt]

Looks like Santa's coming early:laugh4:

[Rodion Romanovich]

CHAPTER 11 - March 1st, 1614 AD
...this chapter will affect the events from March 1st, 1614 AD to August 1st, 1614 AD

In the HRE, the French troops receive reinforcements, and also more modern artillery to the front. Up till now, the campaign has been supported by large artillery crews, but many of their pieces were old. Now they have started receiving larger numbers of the more modern guns, and they are brought into action at Trier for four weeks during the autumn, while the troops from Cologne and further reinforcements converge on the city. The defenses of Trier quickly reach a critical state under the bombardment, but no breakthrough is achieved. The French forces leave 7,000 men to continue the siege, while the rest move south to camps somewhere near the city of Speyer, which is controlled by the Rhineland-Palatinate, their local allies. In the meantime, the French southern army gathers around Spaichingen to assault the city before winter. The assault is quite fast, and casualties around 500 French infantry and 80 men from the garrison, the remainder surrenders. The French supply lines to the southern army have been redirected further south to avoid the Imperial raids, which end during the autumn, possibly as a result of this. The French don't have any major supply problems during the winter, and concentrate on strenghtening supply routes and similar rather than on advancing further. The pillaging seems to have been restrained somewhat, but continues to some extent. Losses to disease and similar are below a total of 500 for both French armies. A small French force also takes Ulm by surprise. The Protestant garrison opens the gates and lets the French troops in. After street fighting with a small number of forces loyal to the Kaiser, the town is secured with a minimum of casualties.

The Dutch siege of Cologne continues, without French support, but strenghtened by 2,000 mercenaries withdrawn from Brandenburg, and 5,000 newly hired mercenaries. The defenses are now damaged critically to the north, and on the verge of breaking. Dutch cavalry is seen penetrating far into the Empire in their reconnaissance missions and make contact with some Protestant troops in the westernmost Protestant territories to the north, and also with French allies further south, but run into no larger Imperial formations. Dutch engineers are also active. Losses to disease and similar are below 100.

In the Protestant North, Tilly ends his campaign after a quick assault on the town of Brandenburg. Potsdam and the territories north of Berlin remain in the hands of Brandenburg forces, while small garrisons are left in Berlin and Brandenburg town, announcing the creation of a new government. Tilly retreats south with the main part of his army, to replenish supplies, rest the troops, train reinforcements and raise the low morale of the surviving 5,000 veterans who were close to defeat during most of the campaign, until reinforced by the 20,000 men that arrived during the autumn, turning the tide of the campaign. Brandenburg forces quickly recon the garrisons in Berlin and Brandenburg, and the still intact Brandenburg army prepares plans for retaking the lost cities. It would seem that the Kaiser's campaign in Brandenburg has failed.

However the good news for Brandenburg do not come without bad news: during early autumn, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth launches a massive military operation on Brandenburg's possessions in Prussia. The Sejm has not supported the operation, but haven't prevented it either. The operation is controversial from many points of view: it is a strike on a vassal of the Polish king, not long after a bloody civil war aimed at increasing the influence of the Sejm and strengthen the rights of the nobility while limiting the king's influence. It is also controversial because it's presented to the Polish nobility as a war against the Protestant religion, which inevitably gives rise to interpretations that the operation is a means of joining the ongoing war on the Kaiser's side, whether that was the intention or not. The operation is militarily impossible for Brandenburg to resist with their garrisons in the area currently being weakened to support operations against Tilly. OVer 10,000 husaria and nearly 5,000 footmen advance towards Koenigsburg and Memel - the most important coastal cities in the Duchy - putting both cities under siege after a series of smaller skirmishes between patrols. Some Brandenburg troops under training have already been taken prisoners outside the besieged cities, and the city garrisons of the two cities are expected to have little more than a total of 500 troops each. The main portion of the Polish forces is gathered at Koenigsburg, bombarding the city defenses to be able to eventually assault.

The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth also sends a small operation consisting of around 8,000 unsupported cavalry of different types towards Nizny Novograd to defeat the rebellion. The weather is however difficult and the city is held by a strong garrison of some 18,000 Russians. The Polish force is unable to conquer the city without support from more reinforcements, and more importantly cannons and infantry. Around 100 Polish cavalrymen are lost due to non-combat factors, but the cavalry at least carefully scouts out the area to bring back more information about the possibilities of besieging the city. They retreat towards Moscow, requesting reinforcements and suggesting a plan of establishing important supply stations along the way by conquering and garrisoning several smaller neutral cities on the route between Moscow and Nizny Novograd. In the meantime, the garrisons of Tver, Novograd and Pskov remain neutral, but are visited by Polish emissaries. Former Tsar Vasili has returned to Nizny Novograd to try and get the Tsar title back again and win respect among the rebels.

In Ireland, 8,000 English troops launch a military operation against the southwest rebels who aided the Spanish during the Anglo-Spanish war, after not having their ultimatum accepted. The troops quickly seize Limerick with less than 150 casualties and establish an important base there for further operations south. A major battle is fought somewhere between Limerick and Cork, resulting in an English victory after some 100 own casualties and around 500 losses for the rebels. According to treaty with Spain, Cork may not be touched, which makes it difficult for English operations to secure the remaining areas to the south. An attempt is made to conquer a chain of smaller towns around Cork, but there is guerilla activity in the areas west of Cork, and the main body of the surviving Irish troops has retreated towards Cork with around 4,000 men. The land in the already secured areas is handed over to leading Parliament members.

In the northern Italian peninsula, Spanish expansion continues. Several cities along the coast south of Genoa are declared under Spanish control and surrender, and Spanish reinforcements arrive, making their total numbers amount to 4 tercios (3,000 men) supported by strong artillery and cavalry detachments.

Sweden makes a third move on Riga, declaring the Russian vote null and void (thus being the first state outside Russia and Poland to at all comment on the validity of the vote). The Polish king has however learnt from the last siege of Riga, and has collected a garrison of 1,000 troops (of which most are husaria), which have stockpiled supplies in preparation for the siege. However, the Swedish forces amount to 12,000 infantry, 4,900 heavy cavalry and 1,400 light cavalry. These are reformed troops many of which haven't seen combat before, but in return they have more training in coordination and tactics than their earlier counterparts, and while many of the forces haven't seen combat, the unit leaders and generals have been taken from those with previous experience. This is the first major test of the capabilities of the new Swedish army organization. Swedish artillery pieces and Swedish warships quickly start bombarding the defenses of the city. The Swedish naval reforms have brought the numbers of the fleet up to 12 warships and almost 20 merchants, and most of this new fleet is used in the operation.

In Transylvania, a strong contingent of Imperial troops turn the tide of the war there and suddenly make Béthlen and Báthory about equal in strength. Báthory, operating from controlling important fortresses from the north, and Bétheln operating from the basis of great popularity among the population, now have about 30,000 troops each, and the coming campaign season will probably be crucial.

In Southern Africa, French colonists and troops find the Dutch colony and build French forts just out of gun's range on both sides of it. Colonists also establish a settlement shortly inland of the Dutch colony. This effectively prevents any further expansion of the Dutch colony, and makes it difficult for the Dutch colonists to expand their agriculture to supply their base, as well as making it more difficult for them to establish trade contacts with the natives there.


BRANDENBURG

1. where to concentrate the Brandenburg troops now? You lost the mercenaries from the Netherlands, but Denmark has promised to mobilize fully and send a large army to your aid. Tilly has retreated from Brandenburg, and left small garrisons in the cities he took. They could be retaken by siege, propably within 1-2 years.
a. use the land troops to quickly retake Brandenburg town and Berlin, now that Tilly is gone. If he comes back, it would be good to have retaken these important fortifications. If he doesn't come back, retaking these cities quickly is important to reestablish normal economical and political conditions. Don't bother about Memel and Koenigsburg at the moment, and keep the Brandenburg fleet in port
b. as a, but use the minimum forces necessary to retake Berlin and Brandenburg town, while sending 2,000 reinforcements to Koenigsburg by sea. Supply them by sea with your fleet. With a reinforced garrison, Koenigsburg would be able to resist siege for maybe up to 3-5 years, even if the defenses are damaged by Polish cannon
c. as b, but first have your fleet seek and engage the Polish fleet. Only if the naval battle succeeds send reinforcements to Koenigsburg. Supply the strengthened garrison by sea.
d. first move on Berlin and Brandenburg with all your troops, and only after they're taken send reinforcements to Koenigsburg.
e. as d, but instead of reinforcing Koenigsburg land most of your army outside Memel and fight the Polish besieging force. You would probably need help from some other fleet to transport that many troops, maybe the Danish could be convinced to help
f. don't do anything at the moment
g. other, specify what

2. diplomacy (choose zero or more)
a. try to make as many as possible in the Protestant Coalition declare war on Poland (by PM)
b. try to make as many countries as possible declare the Russian Tsar vote null and void, to give the Polish increased trouble on their eastern front (mainly by official statements in the thread and maybe also by PM)

3. the aid from Denmark
a. try to convince them to assist you in the retaking of Berlin and Brandenburg
b. try to convince them to assist you in relieving the Polish sieges of Memel and Koenigsburg
c. try to convince them to launch a diversionary attack on the Polish city of Danzig by going through Protestant Pomerania. Try to make Pomerania, who should be your friends, allow military access and help with supplies
d. as c, but instead target Poznan. There is a small, but no entirely impossible, chance that Bohemian Protestants would join such an attack, going via Silesia
e. other, specify what


ENGLAND

1. southwest Ireland
a. put Cork under siege, despite the treaty with Spain. It will make the military operations easier, and you can still be considered to have followed the treaty if you hand it over back to the rebels once they have been defeated. 3-5 warships from your fleet could cut off naval supplies from the city. This would enable you to defeat (kill or capture) most of the 4,000 Irish troops in Cork, and thereby remove any Irish military threats besides guerilla warfare. This would quickly resolve the war and prevent other Irish areas from joining the rebels
b. try to diplomatically resolve it by threatening to burn Cork to the ground if they continue to fight, but otherwise offer peace with Cork remaining independent
c. use scorched earth, pillaging, terror and similar to try and bring them to submission
d. concentrate on defensively holding key cities such as Limerick, and otherwise don't bother about the rebels
e. make several military operations from your base camp in Limerick - quick strikes on rebel bases then quick retreats to Limerick
f. other, specify what

2. the Papal bull
a. follow your previous plans
b. don't do anything for the time being
c. conspire with the Dutch, Danish and possibly Spanish against the French. They seem to be the only (of Spain and France) to try and completely impose the regulations of the bull. Perhaps if they back down on their requirements the bull will lose value
d. diplomatically resolve the conflict by talking to France
e. something else, specify what

3. buying flintlock muskets from abroad - diplomacy by PM. As for the other army reforms I suppose your intention was to make the changes later...

4. India. You probably need to make up more detailed plans for objectives and targets in India. Where to put settlements and forts? Where to concentrate on peaceful trade operations, and where to apply military force? How many soldiers should be sent to the area? How many civilian settlers would you try to aim to move there?


FRANCE

1. war with the HRE - what is the operational plan for the spring and summer? Some info about targets:
i. Mainz - would be very easy to siege after Trier falls, probably still has a small garrison unless reinforced
ii. Sigmaringen - previously under siege by French forces, but relieved during winter to concentrate on assaulting Spaichingen
iii. Ulm - Protestant town, at least temporarily secured, by a small French force. Could be reached by larger forces, but supply lines as far east as this would be quite exposed
iv. Würtemberg - Protestant town
v. Baden - Protestant town
vi. Ansbach - Protestant town
vii. Stuttgart
viii. Frankfurt
ix. Augsburg
x. Trier - could be assaulted during summer or later, or starved over the winter

2. desertion has been kept under slightly better control during the winter. Whether out of better reprisals or because those most likely to desert had already done so before, isn't known. Desertion numbers during winter were below 100 in total for the two armies together. Should further measures be taken? And what is the exact stance on pillaging of the army for the rest of the campaign? The discipline against pillaging is still fairly low. Troop morale has improved a bit but isn't high. Total casualties for this season were 800 for southern army, and 300 for northern army, including desertion, combat casualties and disease etc., most dead being infantry. You have however also 3,000 men reinforcements from home. You must also give directives about how many troops should be trained now to be ready to be sent in as reinforcements for the next season.

3. Poland's attack on Prussia could be seen as Poland joining the war on the Emperor's side, or just a Polish attempt to take control over that piece of land from a vassal considered dangerous. If France is to look like a saviour of among others Brandenburg, it's probably necessary to denounce this Polish operation in an official statement. Militarily, the Polish operation will maybe only affect the eastern flank of the Protestant efforts, and thus not hurt France, but that's difficult to say for sure. Whether French actions that weaken Poland or French actions that strengthen Poland would be good at this time is difficult to say, but at the very least it's clear that France have some possibilities of affecting Poland's future to some extent. Some actions that could weaken the Polish are:
i. try to reinforce the view that the Polish are participating in the war on the Emperor's side, rather than carrying out a simultaneous operation on a common enemy (Brandenburg) with the Emperor.
ii. try to declare the Tsar vote null and void, and/or declare Vassili as the rightful Tsar
Some actions that could strenghten the Polish are:
a. declare the Polish heir the rightful Tsar
b. state that Poland's attack on Prussia is unrelated to the Emperor's war, at the cost of undermining your credibility as saviour of among others Brandenburg. A cleverly phrased statement could of course decrease that effect, but probably only in the short term
c. warn any state from declaring war on Poland for some reason that you make up

4. pirate activity have been reported in the Carribbean, East Indies and at the Southeast African coast. Your fleets covering colonial activities in these areas are quite weak at the moment. There are luckily enough plenty of English and Spanish ships in the nearby areas, but an extensive pirate hunting program from their part would probably chase the pirates into your waters in a matter of a few months or up to a year or two. Something probably needs to be done

5. the situation with the Dutch in South Africa. The situation could turn into hostilities between you and the Netherlands, according to some of your diplomatic advisors, and they're worried that most of your forces are tied up in the war with the Kaiser


HRE and AUSTRIA

1. operational plan for the upcoming spring and summer. You should have the numbers of your troops from previous turns (Tilly has also trained a further 5,000 to replace losses), and now you must decide how to distribute these troops this turn, and whether they should receive any special orders. Here's a list of possible enemy targets:
i. the force besieging Cologne - a force consisting purely of Dutch troops. The Dutch force isn't too large - its numbers are below 20,000 men, but their quality is high - possibly one of the best armies of the time. They have experience fighting tercio tactics (the tactics used by your forces), and have a strong Horse Guard consisting of very professional Polish and Finnish cavalry forces with them. Cologne seems to be on the verge of falling, but could be saved if attacked quickly enough.
ii. the force besieging Trier - 7,000 French forces and plenty of artillery. Trier isn't likely to fall before somewhere in the middle of the summer or during autumn. A relieved Trier could form an excellent base for counter-offensive operations into Luxembourg and Franche-Comte, as well as cutting of supply lines to the French northern army. However it's risky because it could put a small Imperial army between Dutch and French forces, and Dutch and French forces could use this to converge on Trier and try to engage the Imperial army together, which could be a very difficult battle.
iii. French camp at Speyer - some 20,000 or more French troops are gathered here since Christmas. The position could be lightly fortified, and is probably prepared as a base for operations against Wallenstein.
iv. French forces to the south - estimated to some 22,000, and moving further east. If they abandon the systematical capture of key cities along the way and advance more rapidly with less cover, they could be easy to attack isolated with more or less guarantees that they aren't going to be close to any other French forces.
iv. Potsdam - the last important stronghold in Brandenburg. Taking this would secure everything except the minor cities on the northern coast of Brandenburg. Berlin, Brandenburg town and Potsdam could then be burnt to the ground or similar, with the effect of hurting Brandenburg severely in the long term. It would be brutal and used in the propaganda of France and the Netherlands, but the question is if those countries aren't already doing the maximum damage they can, and that such propaganda couldn't do any more damage than it has already done?
v. Ulm - Protestant town, taken over by a small French surprise operation. French garrison of some 2,500 men. Would take 1-2 years to starve out. It's quite far east and it would be difficult for the French to bring a larger army as far as this in the nearest half year or so, but not impossible
- And some defensive targets against likely French advance:
a. Mainz
b. Sigmaringen - previously under siege by French forces, but relieved during winter to concentrate on assaulting Spaichingen
c. Würtemberg - Protestant town
d. Baden - Protestant town
e. Ansbach - Protestant town
f. Stuttgart
g. Frankfurt
h. Augsburg
- And some defensive targets against likely Dutch advance:
1. Düsseldorf
2. Dortmund
3. Münster
all of these defensive targets have some form of independent garrison (not directly under the Kaiser's control, but formally supposed to be on your side in a war against an outer enemy). The Protestant towns are likely to surrender to Protestant forces and even assist them, while the other cities would see any reinforcements from the Emperor as a sign of the Emperor caring about his subjects by helping them in their defense. The French pillaging and plundering so far in the campaign could be a good thing to use politically to demonize the French invader and increase the will to fight them, even among some Protestant towns.
And some other targets to maybe consider:
- Jülich fortress, almost unguarded by its Protestant owners, could be easily taken and then garrisoned by Imperial forces
- more troops to help Báthory in Transylvania

2. Brandenburg. Abandoning Brandenburg and leaving just a small garrison in Berlin and Brandenburg town won't work for long. The Brandenburg army is still intact and will probably try to retake the cities.
a. abandon the cities and move your garrison troops south
b. order the troops to hold out, and promise them that Tilly will be back
c. order the troops to burn the cities to the ground and then retreat south
d. do nothing, and wait for the possibly inevitable siege from the remnants of the Brandenburg army. If Tilly's forces aren't used elsewhere, he could be sent to relieve the sieges, and then they wouldn't be any problem.

3. diplomacy
a. do nothing at the moment, diplomacy has broken down. But perhaps some of your enemies will help you in this matter by trying to make Poland appear to be on your side. If your enemies succeed in this, Poland will more or less end up on your side whether they like it or not, and will have nothing more to lose from cooperating with you. Then you could coordinate your military actions for improved efficiency
b. try to declare officially that you are thankful for Poland's assistance, and that they are true Catholics for supporting the Emperor. This would not be liked by Poland if they are trying to avoid ending up considered to be on your side in the war and face the same enemies you have, but if Poland ends up on your side they would have benefit from organizing cooperation
c. try to point out to Poland that the enemies of the Emperor are now likely to direct their wrath towards Poland too, and that Poland's enemies will now become enemies of the Emperor too as a result of the attack on Brandenburg. Do not blame the Polish, but simply explain that cooperation at this critical time is necessary to survive against all these enemies
d. do nothing this turn, things will perhaps have solved themselves by next turn

4. Transylvania - your support to Transylvania was too weak to enable Báthory to secure victory, but enough to prevent him from being defeated. Béhtlen and Báthory have almost equal numbers now and if given some crucial extra assistance of 5,000 troops or more, Báthory could even manage to defeat Béhtlen in the upcoming battles, unless the Ottomans support him with more than 10,000-15,000 men. The advantage of winning in Transylvania would be that Hungaria is less likely to stir up trouble in Bohemia again, but the downside is that 5,000 troops would be unavailable for other fronts.
a. send no more men, and withdraw the previous support. Hopefully Béthlen hasn't been angered enough over you supporting his opponent to attack the Empire too soon
b. send 5,000 more men. If the Ottomans don't send more support to Béthlen, he will lose, otherwise the situation will remain a deadlock
c. send 10,000 more men, to compensate for if the Ottomans send their support too. Then victory is almost certain
d. send 15,000-20,000 men, enough to be certain of victory almost no matter what the Ottomans would send


NETHERLANDS

1. Cologne. An assault is estimated to be successful once you've completely opened the breeches your artillery has been working on. Estimated casualties will be around 1,000 or less.
a. wait until artillery breaks the defenses, then assault. This will probably take 3 months
b. use your little "surprise" to break the walls. After the previous bombardment, the walls should be weak enough to not withstand your "suprise". A few hours after unleashing that, you could launch an assault. If successful, this would allow an assault almost immediately, enabling you to use most of the campaigning season for new operations, or allow you to make peace with the Emperor and disband your mercenaries.
c. continue starving the garrison. Perhaps another year or two is all it takes. Continuous bombardment in the meantime will also open more breeches.

2. operational plan for your armed forces this turn? 3,000 infantry and 1,000 cavalry more have now been traied in Southern Netherlands and are now ready for campaign. Only 1,000 troops need to remain in Southern Netherlands for garrisoning and basic infrastructure improvements to support the operations at Cologne and improve the supply situation. Some things you must consider:
i. if you assault Cologne, what will be done afterwards to take advantage of the entire campaign season of this year?
ii. which are the goals of the campaign? Will the rest of the campaign serve to secure all small towns between the Netherlands and the Protestant neighbors to the east, or will the campaign aim to make a thrust deeper into the Empire and besiege another major Imperial city?
iii. garrisoning. Look over and decide the garrison sizes for: Northern Netherlands, Southern Netherlands, Liege, Aachen, and Cologne (if you assaulted Cologne)

3. how should the Netherlands react to the Polish attack on Brandenburg? By the rules of the Protestant Coalition, the Netherlands could be considered obligated to send 2,000 mercenaries, depending on the interpretation of the rules, or be considered to already have fulfilled the duty if this is to be considered the same war as the war with the Kaiser
a. send 2,000 mercs
b. instead suggest sending 3-5 warships to defend the Brandenburg fleet and enable it to safely supply Memel and Koenigsburg, which would delay the Polish sieges a lot
c. don't send any aid

4. French activities in South Africa
a. declare war, this is the second major provocation from France in a short time. Call for support from your Danish allies according to the treaty made a short time ago. At the same time try to bring a quick end to the war with the Kaiser
b. warn the French to end their provoking activities and hand over their newly constructed forts and small settlement, or face a declaration of war
c. do nothing at this time


OTTOMAN EMPIRE

1. the Crimean Tatars. Your forces are prepared for war, now the question is if you will go to war, and if so what the operational plan will be. Due to the lack of major settlements in the area it'll not be easy to force the Tatars to battle, but by securing certain of their key forts, and colonizing own settlements in the area, as well as constructing own forts and using your fleet extensively in the Azov Sea, you would have a chance of weakening the Tatars and extending your sphere of influence, as well as improving your own ability to defend yourself against Tatar raids

2. Transylvania. The Emperor's intervention suddenly made the seemingly easy victory turn into an almost even battle that is only slightly pointing in favor of Béthlen. See HRE options for info. What will you do? Send support? If so, how much? You already have some men there: 5,000 men, the amount that at the beginning of last autumn seemed enough to secure victory, while your other troops were prepared for fighting the Tatars. Now however it would seem you need to send 15,000 men to secure victory if the Kaiser sends another 5,000 or none, or up to 25,000 or more if the Kaiser sends a huge force of reinforcements. Béhtlen has established a fairly strong position so the supply situation should be slightly better than at the time of your crucial battle with Báthory, but still probably not good enough to supply an Ottoman help force larger than 25,000 men

3. your fleet. With the new ships you have received having been analysed since they came, you now have the skills required to develop similar ships in own shipyards. They wouldn't immediately be as good as those of England, France, Spain and Venice. You could choose between several different options, including either trying to quickly mass produce, or first experiment a lot and not start mass producing until good prototypes have been deployed and tested. For construction of these ships, you need to open up effective infrastructure for production and handling of ship timber, and good shipyards situated close to areas where you can acquire the timber. It would probably take some 2-3 years or so to construct these things - then it's up to you whether you want to put priority on improving quality before being able to begin mass production early


POLAND

1. what will be the operational plan for your armed forces for this campaign season? Possible targets include:
i. the army besieging Riga - the Swedish main army is besieging Riga with a force consisting of over 18,000 men. The strength of these new reformed troops is unknown, so it's difficult to say what tactics they will employ, and how disciplined and fast at manouvering their forces will be. Tactical judgements from the Polish commander could turn out wrong in anticipating their moves and capabilities, resulting in unexpectedly high losses, but if good margins are used, that shouldn't be crucial to the outcome of any battle. Only thing you know for sure is their cavalry isn't comparable to the husaria.
ii. Koenigsburg - no breeches in the defenses yet, under siege by your forces
iii. Memel - no breeches in the defenses yet, under siege by your forces
iv. Nizny Novograd - will the cavalry force receive infantry reinforcements and artillery to be able to properly besiege the city? They will probably need at least half a year, possibly an entire year, to secure important smaller towns along the route from Moscow to Nizny Novograd. Without doing that, it would be difficult to successfully starve out the city. Supply problems are still expected during a siege of the remotely located city
v. Transylvania - the two fighting for control over the area are evenly matched. Does Poland want to help either of them? Béthlen would probably open the path for Ottomans passing through into Poland and the HRE, while Báthory perhaps can't be trusted either but wouldn't let the Ottomans pass through.

2. economical problems. Your campaigns and large amount of mustered mercenaries are now starting to affect your economy. Your treasury is nearly empty, and unless you take loans or get the Sejm to accept raised taxes again, your troops will soon not be able to receive their pay. You disbanded a few of the semi-irregular cavalry, but they were low cost troops with right to pillage instead of higher wage, so they didn't reduce your expenses much

3. diplomacy
a. declare your attack on Brandenburg unrelated to the Emperor's war. Maybe this could mean avoiding hostility from the Protestant Coalition
b. declare your attack as a means of joining the Emperor's war. The Pope would like this, and possibly send money to finance some of the Polish wars. It would also stir up politics in an interesting way. Maybe it could make Spain join the war too. France would naturally start having problems at home if the war becomes more a matter of a religious war Protestants vs Catholics than a political war, and maybe be forced out of the war by problems among their Catholic population at home
c. do nothing


RUSSIA

1. securing your power as a Tsar. Which method you choose will probably affect your future political position a lot, in terms of who will support you and who will become your enemies
a. luckily enough, your cousin and general is still alive. You could gain power again through his military skills. Declaring yourself Tsar and at the same time promising that he will defeat the Polish invader is risky, but would if successful reestablish your position almost immediately. Repeat your previous offers of the loyal boyar receiving the lands of the illoyal boyars, and some promises of better conditions for the poorer. Allow formerly illoyal boyars to change sides, but state that this is their last chance of doing so
b. as a, but don't allow any more boyars to change sides to your side. All illoyal boyars must be punished
c. as a, but also send emissaries to Tver and Novograd to make them join your side
d. as b, but also send emissaries to Tver and Novograd to make them join your side
e. other, specify what

2. military plans for this campaign season. Your previous strategy of avoiding field battles and striking when the enemy was temporarily weakened by matters elsewhere has worked up till now, at least in enabling you to defend yourself and halt the Polish expansion. But Moscow must be retaken if a turning point is to be achieved. The last Polish attempt to conquer Nizny Novograd failed, but still they were able to send as much as 8,000 cavalry while simultaneously launching a major operation on Prussia. First thing you must do is to gather your forces. You would probably be able to create an army of 30,000-40,000 men if you successfully regain power, but there's also a risk that this estimation is incorrect, and you will only be able to form an army of some 25,000 men. So whatever military plans you make for your forces will have to be conditional, i.e. you'll have to say under which conditions you will do what, depending on how well the mustering of forces goes. The force will probably be 70% levies, 10% professionals and 20% mercenaries. You could also try to hire more mercenaries. Possible targets for operations include:
i. Tver, sending a small force to ensure their loyalty and putting a garrison in place to hold off Polish invaders. The new garrison could also reestablish contact with the troops you had in the city and that were previously part of your army
ii. Novgorod, sending a small force to ensure trade with Sweden can be reestablished, and economical and diplomatical situation improves. The new garrison could also reestablish contact with the troops you had in the city and that were previously part of your army
iii. Moscow, where over 2,000-3,000 Polish-loyal troops are kept. There's a risk of meeting additional Polish forces on the way to Moscow

3. it has come to your attention that Sweden has sent financial aid to the rebels. Since it wasn't clear before they were sent whether you would command them or not, this could perhaps be seen as support directed to you. The money could be used to hire some mercenaries. You could also convince the Swedish to send more money, possibly as a loan that you will pay back to them later, when you have secured yourself against the Polish invasion and retaken at least Moscow, and possibly also Smolensk


SPAIN

1. operational plan for your armed forces this campaign season. Targets and missions to consider:
i. northern Italy - your operations in Northern Italy are going well with the current reinforcements they received. The commander has listed some possible targets:
a. Parma
b. Florence
c. Pisa (controlled by Florence)
d. Reggio Emilia (just north of Modena and Bologna, which are controlled by the Papacy)
e. Livorno (harbor city)
f. the cities north of Florence and east of Genoa, to cover the quite large area between Venice and the circle formed by Florence-Milan-Genoa
ii. Portugal - The gathering of another large rebel army failed after an operation from Spinola, and the situation looks like it's stabilizing, if slowly. The area still troublesome, and he recommends keeping 2 tercios for a long time to ensure Spanish control over the region
iii. India - the establishing of a stronger colonial presence here will require military support, because conflicts with the locals are likely. Sending 2 tercios or more is recommended by your local governor to establish a few strong key bases, and more troops are needed if the influence is to extended even more. He asks for direct orders regarding where to concentrate military operations and where to concentrate on trade. Also orders regarding whether to try and gain popularity with the locals. The Hindis, and the Muslims, are the major population groups in the area, with the Hindis having lately been militarily weaker but larger in population numbers. From some muslim rulers to the northwest of India there have been attacks not under Ottoman control but at least previously passively supported by the Ottomans. These have mainly struck the northwest parts of India

2. economy - your debts are now practically gone thanks to your previous reforms, repaying and what seems to be a decrease in corruption and more efficient administration. No major problems that require the attention of the king have arised, but your administration reports that they this winter found a few cases of corruption that they dealt with.

3. your war fleet is improving well, as is your merchant fleet. The previous crisis in lack of ships for the regular transport missions in your colonies that took place during the most critical phase of your war with England has now ended. You were lucky in that piracy activity was comparatively low in the East Indies and the Carribbean at that time. Now, however, piracy has increased again, in both of these areas. Pirates are also harassing the Southeast African coast.


SWEDEN

1. operational plan for your military forces? Targets to consider:
i. Riga - under siege, with 1,000 men garrison and good stockpiles. Luckily enough, the Swedish fleet is blockading them and the 1,000 men consume a lot of supplies even if stockpiles are large. Therefore, starving the garrison should take less than 3 years. The cannons haven't opened major breaches yet, but assault is possible, although costly. Decide whether to continue siege, assault or withdraw, and if you want to cover much ground with scouting cavalry and if so, under which circumstances (depending on what is spotted) you will withdraw.
ii. the Polish fleet - consists of around 2 warships and a few merchants, kept in Danzig. If sunk, it would be unable to interfere with Brandenburg's transports of supplies to Memel and Koenigsburg, resulting in the Polish sieges of those cities being delayed for a very, very long time, which would tie up important Polish troops there and make them unable to fight Swedish troops at Riga. The majority of the Swedish fleet could still stay at Riga in the meantime
iii. Memel - use your fleet to transport your main army there and fight the less than 5,000 Polish forces besiging the city. Temporarily abandon your plans for Riga in the meantime. After relieving the city you could return to Riga, or a defensive position at Reval, or somewhere else (specify what you will do afterwards depending on outcome, if you choose this option)

2. the mercenaries that you have sent to Brandenburg?
a. withdraw them and send them to Riga
b. keep them at Brandenburg's disposal a little while longer


VENICE

1. the Spanish advance in Northern Italy (see Spain, option 1, for more info about the possible and likely targets of their advance this turn)
a. don't do anything, but try to obtain guarantees that they won't attack Venice
b. try to gather several smaller North Italian cities in alliance to resist further Spanish expansion
c. send Venetian troops to try and occupy the cities north of Florence and east of Genoa, to control the important regions between Venice and the areas likely to come under Spanish control in the nearest future. Even if this angers the cities you would occupy, it would strengthen your defensive in the short term, but unfortunately also give the Spanish some action of yours to use in their propaganda, if they want to
d. send the Venetian fleet to harass the Spanish fleet aiding their efforts in Northern Italy. They wouldn't be prepared for such an attack, and with the element of surprise you could severely devastate their land operations and the supply situation for their land forces, as well as sink much of their Mediterranean fleet
e. ask the Pope for help. However, Venice hasn't got a history of good relations with the Pope. Discuss with the Pope by PM possible help. He might require much from you to help, and if you look to desperate to accept anything it might worsen your chances of surviving the Spanish and French ambitions in North Italy. However if it works, and the Pope supports you, French and Spanish forces are likely to slow down their expansion
f. contact the Spanish (by PM) and demand them to give guarantees not to attack Venice. Offer them something appropriate, such as a royal marriage or trade agreements. Alternatively try to prevent them from attacking you by warning them that a weakened Venice would open up the path for Ottoman expansion, and that it would hurt all Christian countries if Venice or Austria would be unable to keep up their strong defense of the eastern frontier of Christian Europe

2. allies. Apart from your alliance with the Dutch, you don't have any allies. Allies and states who officially declare that they would join a war on your side if you were to be attacked are good ways of guaranteeing your independence. Some things you could do (choose zero or more):
i. make the alliance with the Netherlands official, by making an official statement (make a post in the thread)
ii. try to ally with France (by PM)
iii. try to ally with England (by PM). England recently fought a war with the Spanish
iv. try to ally with the Holy Roman Emperor. He has many enemies, but has the Pope's blessing, and an alliance of the Kaiser and Venice would be an alliance of two Catholic nations, which would be difficult for Spain to justify an attack on, especially as the Spanish ruling family also happen to be tied by blood to the Kaiser's family

3. your army. Hire any mercenaries or not? If you hire any, it would perhaps bring your economy into debt, but if you consider the current situation critical it might be the only way to secure your independence. The amount of debt you get depends on how many you hire. I.e. if you hire 2,000 mercenaries for a year, you'll have a debt corresponding to 2,000 mercenaries for a year, and with your current income that's something that would probably take less than one fifth of your average annual income to repay.

4. contacts with the Ottomans. Given how the new Ottoman ruler has opened up trade contacts with England, France and Spain, it's probably not unlikely that they will allow you too to trade with them. This could improve your economy a lot, and even put you at an advantage compared to your competitors. Stronger economy means stronger army, which is probably necessary to keep the aggressive French and Spanish armies at bay

[Rodion Romanovich]

Official statement from Denmark:
Denmark hereby declares war on the Kaiser of the Holy Roman Empire, and the Catholic League. We have been forced to this sad decision after the Kaiser's unprovoked attacks towards Brandenburg, as well as his refusal to try the Brandenburg Elector in a neutral court for what crimes the Kaiser accuses him of rather than using military force. Denmark previously offered to host such a trial in Copenhagen, or alternatively send Danish troops to supervise such a trial on the soil of the Holy Roman Empire, but these offers were refused. Brandenburg are also our military allies, and it is our duty to assist them when they face such threats from a Catholic leader who doesn't respect the Diet of Augsburg.

Denmark has already assisted Brandenburg by sending mercenaries to their aid. With their help, Brandenburg managed to inflict utter defeat on the Kaiser's army, forcing the few survivors to flee south. Now, Denmark has decided to mobilize her full army and send it to the aid of our Brandenburg allies, to retake the cities that the Kaiser's forces so treacherously took before they left. Interestingly, the forces who took over Berlin and the town of Brandenburg were not forces under the direct control of the Kaiser, but forces under the direct control of the Catholic League - a League whose only purpose is to threaten the rights of all followers of the Protestant faith. The Danish army will liberate these cities, and bring utter defeat to any further armies the Emperor sends north to illegaly suppress the rights of the Elector of Brandenburg. The troops have already started marching, and will reach Brandenburg by mid-April.

Signed,
King Christian IV of Denmark

[Kagemusha]

Thanks Legio!Great chapter!:2thumbsup:

[Marshal Murat]

Finally...

War in Prussia
The invasion of Prussia is the right of the king to prevent the Protestants from using Polish territory to train troops to fight in this European war. We are disgusted that Brandenbrug would use the land and peoples there-in for a highly suspicious and religiously driven war.

[Warluster]

Can I play Translavania? The one which you play legio, not the Papacy, the other one, can I play that?

[Rodion Romanovich]

Can I play Translavania? The one which you play legio, not the Papacy, the other one, can I play that?
As I said, new players are only allowed in if someone else drops out. There are many factions not currently played by any, but the reason not to have more players is that too many players make it too complex for me to organize. I can notify you by PM if someone drops out.

[Incongruous]

The Imperial Government.

The Imperial Roman Government Declares open and total war upon the enemies of Germany.
The Protestant Union and France.

We urge our Catholic brothers across Europe to come to the defence of the true faith or face damnation.

[SwordsMaster]

Legio, just one thing, 4 tercios are 12,000 men, not 3,000.

[Rodion Romanovich]

yes would have been more clear if I wrote it like this: "4 tercios (1 tercio = 3,000 men)" ~:(

[SwordsMaster]

yes would have been more clear if I wrote it like this: "4 tercios (1 tercio = 3,000 men)" ~:(

yup, thanks. My current tercios are probably quite a bit larger now, after all the extra additions of cavalry, light troops and artillery anyway...

[Rodion Romanovich]

Merry Christmas to all! :santa:

[Randarkmaan]

Merry christmas my fellow kings, emperors, princes, chancellors and Tsars!
~:santa:

[Kagemusha]

Merry Christmas to all!:bow:

[Marshal Murat]

And to all a good Christmas
This is my wish
so just stay at home
and cook a fish.

[SwordsMaster]

Last announcement before christmas:

The Irish Free City of Cork has accepted the gracious offer of His Catholic Majesty the King of Spain, and is now a vassal of Spain. The rebel army at war with England will disband, and make peace with England, and instead a spanish garrison will be formed with its members in Cork and its vicinity. In addition to this, an Irish tercio will be formed and stationed near the city.

The Council of Indies has also offered to those who do not wish to remain in Ireland free passage to the Indies with other benefits and conditions arranged by this treaty of Cork.

OOC:

Merry Christmas to all!

I will be irresponsive for the next week or so... I know, I know, i'm sure you will survive just fine.:laugh4:

[Incongruous]

The Emperor suggests that since this a season of giving, why do our enemies not simply give us their surrenders now and not dally any further?:yes:

[Franconicus]

:france:
After the victory at Spaichingen our armies now reached Ulm. The citizens opened the doors and welcomed their liberators.
Today we gather at Notre Dame de Reims to thank the Lord. The southern army will receive one month extra payment and the assault detachment of Ulm will receive decoration and meterial rewards!
Praise the Lord and join the glorious army today!

======================================================

To the counties and towns of Germany!

Our armies are marching through southern Germany and there is little resistence from Imperial forces. Every day another town is liberated and everyday new towns and counties join us, so that our army is getting stronger and stronger. Join the allied armies, that has already liberated the Palatinate, the Danube, Luxembourg, Franche Comte and Ulm. Open your gate. We will bring you peace and order!

=======================================================

We received news about piracy. We will not tolerate that.

1) Every attack against any armored or unarmored Christian ship will be judged as piracy. Pirates will be sentenced to death. Countires that support pirates will be seen as enemies.
2) We collect all data about piracy at the library of Marseille. Anyone can give and get information there. (Legio, can you please give info where pirates act?)
3) Our armed forces received the order to capture pirates and to help attacked shippes whereever it is necessary.
4) We ask the countries of England, Spain and the Netherlands to join our fight.

[Incongruous]

It is good to see that the German word for Tyranny is translated into the French word liberation so easily by our serpent tongued foe.

We now know the true calibre of those so called Germans whom have surrendered to the malignant foe!

Do not let these men, stripped of their manhoods as they are, convulse you're brave and righteous souls! We are shielded by Christ! No foreigner shall ever lay claim to Germany and her people!

You're Emperor, heir to the first Christians of Europa doth demand that everyman whom lays claim to the title of Christian deos coem foreward and rid us of the plague of the Frogs!

His highness the Emperor.

[Kagemusha]

Open letter to the Kaiser and all people of Germany

The Republic of Netherlands would advice the Kaiser to surrender now,when he still has something left of his Empire. We have no ill will towards the people of Germany,as our actions during our campaings have witnessed. Kaiser created this war against his own people only becouse of his personal lust of power and his intolerance towards peoples right to their own religious beliefs. We will soon wash Germany off from this yoke and together we will build new Germany where people can prosper and will not be haunted becouse of their beliefs. If Kaiser has not made peace before the end of the next season.We urge that every able man in West,North,South Germany,Bohemia,Hungary and Italia, who agrees that this bloodshed which Kaiser have created against his own people has to end.Will then raise the war flag against him as one man.The day of peace is close. Soon there will be a sign,which will mark the beginning of end of Kaisers reign of terror over peoples of Germany.

The Republic of Netherlands

[IrishArmenian]

Vasili gives his blessing to this war on the tyrannical rule of the Kaiser.
Dear Kaiser, either take the humble road and agree to a ceasefire under a compromise or abdicate the throne now. Remind me how you got elected, because if you can, anyone can.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Franc and Kage, did you receive my PM replies or did they get deleted by the database error that came shortly after I sent them?

[Franconicus]

I think I received them.

:denmark: :france:

Announcement

France transferred His claims on the French part of India to Denmark. Excluded is the area around our our base in Northwest India.

[SwordsMaster]

His Catholic Majesty the King of Spain declares:

The Council of the Realms has graciously agreed to lend the help of spanish fleets to clear the Mediterranean sea. Obviously Spain will also protect her own coasts in all of her colonies be it in the Caribbean, Pacific or african or indian coasts.

[Kagemusha]

Yup Legio.I got it.Thanks for the information.:bow:

Statement from Republic of Netherlands.

We salute France for alerting us others about piracy and we also confirm that all pirates catched by Dutch fleet will be keelhauled like our good custom is for handling Seawolves.

[Franconicus]

Philippe,

my messages did not make it to you. Can you clear your mailbox please?

[Rodion Romanovich]

From the population of Cork:
We confirm the Spanish message that we have accepted a Spanish governor to be installed in Cork. We have ordered our troops to withdraw from all territories outside Cork, as long as Cork isn't touched by English troops.

From Denmark:
We confirm the French statement. The French claims to parts of India, save for their already established base, will be handed over to Denmark. In return, Denmark will open for French ships to trade without taxes in the Danish colony in western Africa, and free passage of French ships into the Baltic.

[Franconicus]

From Denmark:
We confirm the French statement. The French claims to parts of India, save for their already established base, will be handed over to Denmark. In return, Denmark will open for French ships to trade without taxes in the Danish colony in western Africa.
As well as free and safe passage to the Baltic Sea.

[SwordsMaster]

Philippe,

my messages did not make it to you. Can you clear your mailbox please?

Sorry. I believe the King's new secretary has sorted the problem. The old one is rowing on a galley off the Berbery coast if i am not mistaken.

[SwordsMaster]

First, several announcements of the King of all the Spains:
________________________________________________________
The King wishes to welcome to Spain to all engineers, mathematicians, artillerists, seamen, officers, and colonists of christian faith that wish to start a life in Iberia. They will be granted jobs either in Spain or the colonies and will be treated according to their position.
__________________________________________________________
Also, works to embellish the city of Madrid have begun, to mark this new age of economic prosperity.The King wishes to send word to the best sculptors of christendom to come to the city and participate in a project that will grant them fame and fortune.
________________________________________________________
The King also suggests to the cities in Northern Italy to accept spanish rule to avoid unnecessary bloodshed, and wishes to reassure Venice that Spain has no intention of attacking her.

____________________________________________________________
His Catholic Majesty will also offer asylum to the Holy Roman Emperor should he wish to abandon his country, and will support a catholic Emperor in the future. As much as the King does not share the Emperor's policy, he does not forget the ties of blood and faith that join our two houses.

___________________________________________________________
The King's troops will commence a campaign to rid Spanish Africa of pirate strongholds.

___________________________________________________________

OOC: Happy New Year to all! May it be creative and productive, and above all, interactive (pun intended:laugh4:) :2thumbsup:

[Rodion Romanovich]

Official statement from Denmark:

The King of Denmark invites the Protestant Coalition to another meeting to discuss the future of the Coalition, and it's plans in the nearest future. The meeting will take place in the autumn of 1614.

In the meantime, Denmark condemns the Polish actions towards Brandenburg and advices the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth to withdraw their troops and pay money corresponding to the upkeep of 5,000 mercenaries for a year to allow Brandenburg to repair the damages made. The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth should also hand over the prisoners they took outside Königsberg and Memel to Brandenburg authorities. Prussia is the property of the elector of Brandenburg, as a vassal of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, and he has been a loyal vassal of Poland. If the leader of the Commonwealth sees it fit to attack one of his vassals, what keeps him from attacking his other vassals?

Denmark also wishes to announce that she will use her entire fleet to clear the sound straits and the North Sea from pirates.

Finally, the King of Denmark wishes the new year to be a great year that sees success and prosperity for our friends, and the destruction of our foes!

[IrishArmenian]

How can Poland massacre Prussians while holding of a Russian Uprising?
A most intriuging paradox, yes, Sigismund?
Lord of Prussia and Brandenburg, Sigismund must react to this, for if he goes in with both, we will both have victory immediatley. If he commits, he risks the karge chance that the ost able of us will attack the Poles with unheard of ferocity while he has his whle army fighting the other. Sigismund's only true option is to make peace for the safety of his people, most notably his women, from my troops!

[Marshal Murat]

Statement from King Sigismund

The Commonwealth has the full right to bring a vassal back into line while they forment rebellion and war. The use of Polish vassal lands to train, equip, and provide troops for a war that Poland has NO INVOLVEMENT IN, it is tantamount to revolution. We are offended that the Branenbrugian Elector has used this land for his own goals, and not alerted the King and Sejm about this outlawry. We are neutral, and not one part of our land will be used for either Protestant of Catholic sides.
As such, we are disgusted that Denmark would suggest that Poland is somehow reponsible for this outlawry and bias that is not in the Commonwealth. Our nation is one that is not involved in this conflict. We approve of Calvinist, Protestants, Catholic, Russian Orthodox, and Muslims. We are not favoring any one religion over another.

As such, we formally protest the Protestant Coalition's obvious bias against our accepting society. We have Protestants here in the Commonwealth, and we ask that the Coalition accept an ambassador from the Commonwealth so that any issues that concern Protestants be addressed by the Commonwealth's ambassador and resolved.

[Franconicus]

The Marechal de France declares:

The French King has decided, that the differences between the Polish King and the Duke of Prussia are an internal affair. He will not care about it as long as no side asks for his moderation.

The French King also declares the Polish heir the rightful Tsar.

The French King has decided that France will not participate in the Danish meeting. He asks His Dutch neighbors to be agent for the French interests and to report Him after the meeting.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Official statement from Denmark:

It's widely known that the very legal noble revolt in the year of the Lord 1605 against the rule of King Sigismund was directed against his attempts to reduce the influence of the Sejm. To speak of having a right to "bring a vassal back in line" for no reason, if anything, must be taken as an indication that he is making the same mistake again. At first the attack was presented as a war on a Protestant, then the King declares acceptance of all religions, and suddenly the attack on one of our allies is presented as an attack on a vassal accused of some unspecified crime, rather than a war against the Protestant faith. Will you now, when you return to the Sejm, withdraw that statement and again tell them that it was in fact an attack on the Protestantism?

Denmark wishes to keep peace and order in the region, and since we have had good relations with the Commonwealth previously, and played - and still play - a crucial role in enabling the Commonwealth to sell their goods abroad, we deserve an explanation for why one of our allies (that we are acting as the protector of) was attacked for seemingly no reason. In this conflict so close to our homelands, it will be difficult for us to be netural, and we will soon be forced to take sides. The question is - which side should we choose? The side that was attacked and begs us for our help, or the side that attacks our ally, but has apparently forgotten what a problematic situation it puts us in, forcing us to choose sides between two countries that should both be our friends. The side that also abandoned us while we were at war, and made separate peace with our common enemy Sweden. That enemy is now our friend, but is still the enemy of the Commonwealth.

In the meantime while we await your response, Danish ships will assist Brandenburg in supplying the civilian Protestants in Königsburg and Memel and ensure their safety and upkeep stability of trade in the region. Denmark also offers Protestant refugees from Prussia to settle on Danish soil until the matter has been resolved.

[Marshal Murat]

B]King Sigismund of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
Concerning Prussia and Brandenburg[/B]


Prussia is a vassal of Poland. He is a vassal and has to submit to the rule of the King and the Sejm.
As such they are under our jurisdiction. This isn't a fight against Protestants, it is a fight against the use of Polish lands for a war that Poland considers outside of the realm of combat. We don't care if the Holy Roman Empire wins or loses this war, or if the Protestants are destroyed. We are concerned about our territory being used by any nation as a training ground for this war.


Some Brandenburg troops under training.

This statement in the course of the war has revealed that the Brandenburg elector has used the vassal of Prussia as a training ground, far from the Holy Roman Empires control and jurisdiction.
Denmark, we aren't asking you to attack us, or defend us. We are asking that you provide for the war that you signed up for. Do not think that Brandenburg is a white sheep, and that we attacked them without reason. We have had information from honest Poles, stating this treasonous act against the Commonwealth.
I present to the Sejm, and the world, my report on the situation.
I was presented with information that the Elector of Brandenburg has used Prussia as a training ground for his soldiers in a war against the Holy Roman Empire. This war, a regrettable incident, has not involved Polish soldiers. We are not taking sides in this conflict, we are preserving the sanctity of Poland. If we allowed this use of land for a war that we consider beyond our needs or wants, then I consider this illegal. My quote...

War in Prussia
The invasion of Prussia is the right of the king to prevent the Protestants from using Polish territory to train troops to fight in this European war. We are disgusted that Brandenburg would use the land and peoples there-in for a highly suspicious and religiously driven war.
I am preventing the Polish nation from having to chose sides in this suspicious conflict. I am not declaring any religion false or bad. I am saying that the Protestant use of Prussia for military campaigns in Germany is something that the Crown doesn't want to occur. If the Holy Roman Empire tried to use a vassal in Poland for training, then we would have done the same.
Prussia is mine, a vassal nation that has been raped of her resources for a war that we aren't interested in. I am protecting my nation from the turmoil and religious conflict that has highlighted the recent months.
Do not believe that I will watch as parts of my Commonwealth are drawn into this war, piece by piece. We are neutral.
If the Protestant Coalition decides that this act of bringing Prussia back to the fold, and taking her resources from the war that Poland doesn't support, then we will be forced to reply in kind.
We do not want to kill Danes, Swedes, French, Dutch, or other nations over a purely internal matter. If Brandenburg had kept the war to her own territory then we wouldn't have this problem. I am disgusted and appaled that Brandenburg has considered this a war against Protestantism, and drawing in outside forces to combat my troops. This is a war to preserve Polish neutrality in this conflict.
I do not want Bradenburg to control this province and abuse her resources again. As such, I ask Prussians to lay down their arms and avoid further bloodshed. In Memel and Koeingsburg, we ask the citizens to open the gates to the Poles. Your neutrality in the conflict of Europe is assured, and you will be free to worship as you please. I am not forcing this war on Prussia and involving the nation in this conflict.
I state again that this war is an internal matter. We are preserving Polish neutrality and the citizenry from the harsh situation of war.

[Randarkmaan]

Official statement from his most illustrious majesty, Ahmad I, Sultan, Caliph and ruler of Constantinople:

"All jews and muslims who may remain in Iberia and who face religious persecution as an every day event, are welcome to come to the Ottoman Empire, here you will have sanctuary against the repressive despot residing on the Spanish throne."

Also he wishes all monarchs, who celebrate the New Year as according to the faulty Gregorian calendar, a very happy New Year!

[IrishArmenian]

As such they are under our jurisdiction. This isn't a fight against Protestants, it is a fight against the use of Polish lands for a war that Poland considers outside of the realm of combat. We don't care if the Holy Roman Empire wins or loses this war, or if the Protestants are destroyed. We are concerned about our territory being used by the Protestants as a training ground.
I apologise, good Sigismund, did you just contradict yourself in the same paragraph?
Indecision probably runs in your family, I can tell Russia's new Tzar-elect will be able:wall: .
Good King of France, why do you forsake me? The Boyars were bought out, and you hide as soon as the winds shift? At least the Sultan is still my brother.

[Marshal Murat]

What contradiction???

[Rodion Romanovich]

Official statement from Denmark:

All troops are always in training to stay fit. That the legal garrison troops of Prussia carried out training to stay fit can't be against any known law. However, we understand your concerns that Poland may be drawn into the Kaiser's war. Therefore, we will quickly liberate the cities that Brandenburg lost to the Kaiser, so that the troops in training can return to Brandenburg, and only their garrison troops will have to stay in Prussia. We will also give guarantees of military assistance in the case the Kaiser were to attack the Commonwealth. Thus there should be no reason to continue besieging these cities and pillage and burn among the Protestant civilians. As protectors of Brandenburg we also have to demand that the Commonwealth pays for the damages done so far.

[IrishArmenian]

Sigismund, you said specifically "This isn't a fight against Protestants" and then later said "used as Protestant Training ground". Wouldn't it be just as good to say either "This isn't a fight against Protestants...used as a Brandenburg Training Ground." or, be blunt "This is a fight against Protestants...used as a Protestant training ground."
What you said is either a contradiction, or it has Brandenburg only training Protestants in Prussia and training Catholics somewhere else, which seems a little bit stupid.

[SwordsMaster]

His Catholic Majesty the King of Spain declares valid the vote of the russian boyars, and recognises the polish Tsar of the Russias. He is also very disappointed in the russian nobility and their lack of honour and convictions in their choice to switch to a ruler that offered them more terrenal commdities. We hope that the new Tsar will restore honour into the court of the Third Rome.

His Catholic Majesty also recognises the war in Prussia as internal affair, and recognises the right of the King of Poland to ensure that his territory is used in the best interest of Poland.

[IrishArmenian]

I see my former friends have now deserted me.
No matter, the Sultan is still my brother.
Do you conform to Poland's wishes out of fear?
What is there to fear from them? It must be fear, there is no other answer. France and Spain are afraid of you, Sigismund, well done!

[SwordsMaster]

And you, Tsar, are allied with the heathen Turk! Do not dare to call the champions of Catholicism cowards least you wish to bring war again upon the peoples entrusted to your command. You cannot take back words, boyar, so be careful with what leaves your mouth.

[Marshal Murat]

Poland is disgusted that the rebel boyars are seeking to threaten and intimidate the Catholic nations of the world.
We in Poland, we are not playing along with your charade that this "training" is only to keep soldiers in wellness. This is maintenance, not any form of 'training'. Poland feels that, as such, it is an affair that is between two nations about an internal affair.
False Czar, we are fighting the use of land for training of Protestant troops. This would complicate our neutrality, and render our lands a battleground in this religiously driven war. To all Protestants, this is not a war against the Protestant religion! This is a war against the use of neutral land in support of this war! If I have not said this before, then I will say it again. If there were Catholics using Poland as a land to draw resources and troops from, the we would have acted exactly as we did before. This is a war against the Brandenburg use of our vassal Prussia as a land for the use in this war that we don't support.
In no way is this conflict involved in the war in Europe. We are not allowing ANY nation to use OUR SOVEREIGN TERRITORY for training of troops. This is construed by the Crown as an invasion of this territory, and will responded to by force.
We in the Commonwealth aren't quite sure that the Protestant Coalition will be able to achieve victory over the Kaiser in the Holy Roman Empire. We do not believe that you will be able to achieve complete victory so soon that we would leave Prussia.
Do not guarantee what you do not have, for war is strange and tumultuous.
We in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth are also lords over Prussia. Any damages done will be paid by the Commonwealth to the local owners, not to the Coalition. It is not our belief that all funds will go directly to the Prussians who we also protect. Our vassalage will be punished by war for her complacentcy in this use as training grounds, and then provided for so that she may provide again to the Commonwealth of Poland.

[IrishArmenian]

And you, Tsar, are allied with the heathen Turk! Do not dare to call the champions of Catholicism cowards least you wish to bring war again upon the peoples entrusted to your command. You cannot take back words, boyar, so be careful with what leaves your mouth.
The Heathen Turk?
I believe the King of France, who in my mind is much more wise and open minded than you, has allied himself with the Ottomans. I guess there is some ignorant Hapsburg blood in you after all!

[Kagemusha]

Announcement of The Republic of Netherlands about the Prussian affair.

The Republic is worried about the situation at Prussia and calls for both sides to stop the incident. We understand that the Commonwealth is worried about Brandenburgs areas in Poland producing troops against the Kaiser,while Poland is neutral in that conflict. We see that the matter is internal to Poland.But we dont think that attacking Brandenburg becouse of that is a valid method. If Poland and Brandenburg are intrested The Republic of Netherlands could act as mediator between your two powers. We think that this matter could be solved lot better in negotiations table rather then field of battle. Netherlands have had good relations with both of your respective powers.And we hope that you could accept immediate ceace fire and start negotiations on neutral ground as soon as possible. If you accept our offer please tell it here in Public and send negotiators to Amsterdam.

With respect.

The Republic of Netherlands

[Marshal Murat]

I am willing to agree to a temporary ceasefire as long as the Brandenburg Elector sends no more troops to the region. I will withdraw my troops from that location if he agrees.

[Lord Winter]

Sweden suggest that Poland listens to her own advice and stops interfering in the affairs of Vasii, the rightful sovereign of Russia. Brandenburg also has our continued support in her hour of need, against both the polish and the German oppressors.

Gustav Adolf II

[Patriarch of Constantinople]

Are there any nations I could be? I want to play.

[Marshal Murat]

Vasili is an external affair that we are assisting the boyars and the boyar elected ruler with.
If it were internal, then we would have control over the Russians, we do not exert that control.

We also kindly ask you to stay away from Riga, where you constantly face defeat. Please withdraw.
OCC-Its King of Altantis Brandenburg right???

[SwordsMaster]

The Heathen Turk?
I believe the King of France, who in my mind is much more wise and open minded than you, has allied himself with the Ottomans. I guess there is some ignorant Hapsburg blood in you after all!

I cannot make war on you for you are already defeated by your own people, boyar, and you are like a petty dog barking at an elephant, frustrated and shielding yourself in your fear. So keep barking from the dark basement of your fortress. You are powerless.

____________________________________________

The ministry of foreign relations wishes to announce a defensive alliance between the Commonwealth of Poland and Lithuania and the Crown of Spain. Together we will be better able to face the challenges of this turmoiled time. This does not mean involvement in any wars that our countries are already involved in.

[Vladimir]

Very interesting :thumbsup: . Consider this minor Italian Prince Impressed :yes: . I'm also looking forward to the Dutch "suprise". :smash:

Edit: Swordsmaster, excellent job with the Spanish! It's good that you're not stupidly floundering as they were.

[Rodion Romanovich]

@Patriarch of Constantinople: New players are allowed to join only if someone who is currently playing drops out. The queue for joining is now: Warluster, Csar, Patriarch of Constantinople

@Marshal Murat: yes, King of Altantis is Brandenburg

[SwordsMaster]

Still a lot of people who haven't submitted replies?

Ignoramus and Kagemusha did you receive my PM?

EDIT: Thanks Vladimir! I do what I can

[Rodion Romanovich]

Yes, quite a lot who haven't submitted yet - Christmas and New Year holidays and stuff I assume...

[King Kurt]

Message from the Court of King James

His Highness sends belated festive greetings and felicitations for the New Year. The court of King James was struck by illness over the holidays, but the little princess has recovered from the chicken pox now!!

King James thanks the King of Spain for his help in resolving the problem in Ireland. England will recognise the Free city of Cork and has already opened trading relations. The field army will withdraw to barracks, save for a ring of outposts around Cork. These will be manned by a small force who will liase closely with the forces of Cork. All reprisals against the local population will stop.

King James welcomes the stance taken by France, Spain and the Netherlands against piracy and commits its naval might to the fight against this scourage of the sea.

King James calls upon the Emperor to come to his senses and cease this senseless bloodshed which threatens the peace of Europe. As the only major power currently not involved, King James offers himself as a moderator as a last ditch attempt to bring peace to this troubled region.

God save the King

signed this day by King James the First of England and Sixth of Scotland

[IrishArmenian]

Vasili wishes to inquire "Christmas already? It is not 6 January yet."
OOC:I did happen to celebrate the Western Christmas, with my Catholic father.
IC: Vasili drank far too much Vodka with the wife on New Years. The true Tzar gets headaches just thinking of it.
King James, what is your stance on Poland's brain-dead little puppet?

[Marshal Murat]

The Tsar was elected by the boyars, representing their interests in human form. If anything he is boyar puppet!
Its history, rebel Vasili, and I'm sorry your a sorry loser. If your wanted to be heard and your ideas used, then you should have stayed with the Duma and voiced it to the rightful Tsar. Instead you've run to the boundaries of Russia, propping yourself up with all this false pagentry.

Wladyslaw is the Tsar. France has recognized him as ruler, and no doubt the Spanish have also recognized them as Tsar. Your petty hawing is disgusting.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Not yet submitted:
BRANDENBURG, ENGLAND, FRANCE, HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE, NETHERLANDS, VENICE

So I think I'll have to wait a bit longer until next chapter can come

[Kagemusha]

Swordmaster i received your message.I will answer soon.Have anybody heard anything from Brandenburg or Venice?

[IrishArmenian]

Oh, Sigismund, you realise that, although I respect the King of France, Spain can do nothing to me. He is just another Hapsburg. The King of France has made his decision and I have made mine, but keep your nose out of Russian matters, Pole. This is an internal matter, not unlike your massacre of Prussia, so I think you, of all people, would respect that.

[Marshal Murat]

Very well!
I'm glad the Rebel Tsar has realized that internal affairs be internal!
OOC:Legio is Russian Tsar

[Randarkmaan]

...Well, then Legio must die or be exiled! Don't you agree Vasily? ~D

PS: "Somewhat" out of character

[IrishArmenian]

I do agree, Sultan.
If that is so, Sigismund, do not march your army into my land! It is mine, after all!

[Marshal Murat]

I'm glad I'm not!

[Rodion Romanovich]

OOC: I'm taking over Wladyslaw's role. The Vassili faction will still be called Russia to avoid confusion, but I will of course call Wladyslaw's faction Russia when I am Wladyslaw.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Official statement from Russia (Wladyslaw):

Tsar Wladyslaw I of Russia requests that Vassili in order to limit further bloodshed surrenders himself to Polish or Russian troops before the end of the year, and he will not be harmed. The rebel troops who surrender before the end of the year will be incorporated into the Russian army or given free return home, whichever they choose. Troops who do not surrender before the end of this year will however be considered outlaws and punished if captured.

[Ignoramus]

OOC: Sorry for my inactivity for the last week. I went away for a week, and so I hope to catch up on everything in the next few days.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Ok, no problem

[Lord Winter]

Offical statement from Sweden

Sweden proclaims Vasilli as Tsar and refuses to recognize the government of the rebel Wladyslaw. Further more the king urges the rebels to stand firm against the rebel threats and to remember that they are not alone in there struggle. Sweden stands by them and will continue to finance and support them and the god deemed Tsar Vasilli.

[IrishArmenian]

Sweden, always rational, always stalwart. Most of Europe could learn something from the Swedes, and how to stand up against injustice from every nation in the Protestant Coalition.:2thumbsup: Here's to you, Proddies.

[Incongruous]

Im back from my end of school roadtrip.

I'll catch up soon then post legio my moves.:2thumbsup:

[Randarkmaan]

How many still haven't made their decisions? I'm sort of seething with impatience right now :dizzy2::smash:

[Kagemusha]

I havent.Im puzzled whether i should commit my answers or wait for Brandenburg to accept ceacefire with Poland which have already accepted to start negotiations for peacefull end to conflict in Prussia. I havent heard anykind of answer from Brandenburg on the issue.:juggle2:

[SwordsMaster]

Come on, guys! It has been 3 weeks since the last chapter! I can't believe you have not made up your minds yet!

[Rodion Romanovich]

Remaining are: BRANDENBURG, HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE, NETHERLANDS
But I believe Netherlands is awaiting a PM from Brandenburg and HRE just got back from Holidays. I don't know the status for Brandenburg, but if there's no response by Saturday perhaps I should treat Brandenburg as missing in action and have Brandenburg replaced by another player?

[SwordsMaster]

Remaining are: BRANDENBURG, HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE, NETHERLANDS
But I believe Netherlands is awaiting a PM from Brandenburg and HRE just got back from Holidays. I don't know the status for Brandenburg, but if there's no response by Saturday perhaps I should treat Brandenburg as missing in action and have Brandenburg replaced by another player?


... In the next chapter to avoid delaying even more...? :yes:

[Rodion Romanovich]

Replacement of Brandenburg? Well, if I replace Brandenburg for this I'd have to carry out some diplomatic exchanges with Poland about the conditions of the peace, which could take some time. A replacement player would also take time. And our current player is missing in action and I don't know when he'll be back. :shrug:

I'm afraid the next chapter will be delayed no matter which option we choose :help:

[SwordsMaster]

It is a pity that one ofthe players responsible for the Great Centroeuropean War has gone missing before its conclusion... But still, it has been too long... It is your call. We could wait until next Monday or something and then take drastic measures.

[Kagemusha]

In my opinion we should pm brandenburg once again and if he doesnt response untill Sunday, Legio could take over Brandenburg for this round and then we could have new player for the next round.Btw who is on the line next?

[Rodion Romanovich]

Warluster is next in line. I have posted the entire queue in post 684 above.

[Warluster]

Yay, my turn! My turn is coming up! BTW, who was the Bradenburg player?

[IrishArmenian]

Csar. Read the earlier posts to learn what situation your future domain is in, who are its enemies, and who are its friends. Keep in mind Brandenburg is Protestan, so look to the Protestant Coalition, the Ottoman Empire and the True Tzar of Russia for help.

[AntiochusIII]

A lively thing you got here going!

I can't believe I missed your masterpiece of coordination and successful multiplayer, Legio. I read through the whole thread these last two days. Amazing. The rich interaction really does get it going, and Bopa's self-sacrifice ( :clown: ) to create the Evilz Madz Emperor helps much in ensuring cooperation and sissy diplomacy won't dominate the day. (Now, of course, if I play, I'm gonna be the one doing all the sissy diplomacy in question :P )

Though my chances of joining are low -- at least two people stand above me, not counting Warluster's entrance as Brandenburg -- I might as well sign up for the queue if nobody objects.

P.S. Wasn't it King of Atlantis, not Csar, that had ruled Brandenburg after Csar temporarily left somewhere around page 10?

[Marshal Murat]

The True Tsar is Wladyslaw, false boyar.

[IrishArmenian]

Say what you will, but Wladyslaw is a Polish pig!

[Ignoramus]

From the Court of Marcantonio Memmo, Doge of the Most Serene Republic of Venice.

"Venice officially confirms that she is allied to the United Provinces of the Netherlands. She also warns Spain not to encroach upon her territory."

[Franconicus]

:france: The Royal Government of France is concerned about the recent developments in Northern Italy. For further consultations the King orders the ambassador back from Venice.

[SwordsMaster]

The spanish embassador in Venice assures His Serenissima that Spain has no intention of threatening venetian territory, and is open to diplomatic discussion concerning mutual political interests.

[Vladimir]

From the Court of Marcantonio Memmo, Doge of the Most Serene Republic of Venice.

Yo. Are you Serene? :cool:

[Franconicus]

Remaining are: BRANDENBURG, HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE, NETHERLANDS
But I believe Netherlands is awaiting a PM from Brandenburg and HRE just got back from Holidays. I don't know the status for Brandenburg, but if there's no response by Saturday perhaps I should treat Brandenburg as missing in action and have Brandenburg replaced by another player?
Yes!
We have to create a deadline for the replies! It does not make sense that some send their answers after one, others after three weeks. I guess two weeks are enough!
If someone goes on holiday we can extend the deadline. But then everybody knows what is going on!

[Rodion Romanovich]

- @Warluster: Welcome Warluster! First step is for you to choose a faction. Recommended available factions are: Brandenburg, Denmark, but you may also suggest other factions. Your second step is to decide whether to jump in during this turn, or during the next turn. If you jump in this turn, you need to send in your decisions for this chapter. But some may also want to have diplomatic discussions by PM with you this turn before you send in your options. I'll send to you a small summary of what your faction so far has been up behind the scenes. What it has been doing publicly can be seen by reading the chapters. If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask

- @Franc: Yes, I agree. Two weeks should be enough for submitting decisions. Preferably I'd also recommend all to try and complete the most crucial key diplomatic exchanges within one week, because many will not want to send in their decisions until the key diplomacy has been completed.

[Kagemusha]

I agree on the two week limit. Legio can you make a public statement as Brandenburg about the Netherlands proposal on ceace fire on Prussia and peace negotiations which Poland accepted already,so i can give you my answers for the round?:bow:

[Rodion Romanovich]

I haven't begun those negotiations yet, because I wanted to know first whether Warluster will begin this turn or the next. If he begins the next turn, I'll start the negotiations.

[Warluster]

I will start this turn, I am sending my desicions now, the decesions are from Chspter 9 right? Otherwise where is chapter 10?

[Franconicus]

Welcome, warluster!

You are Brandenburg, are you?

[Warluster]

Yep, I have sent in my decisions Legio

[Rodion Romanovich]

I will start this turn, I am sending my desicions now, the decesions are from Chspter 9 right? Otherwise where is chapter 10?
Actually it was chapter 11, it's on page 22, post 632

[Warluster]

oops, sorry legio, didnt see that one

[Rodion Romanovich]

No problem, I received your new decisions. I also sent you a summary of what you need to know about what Brandenburg has been doing so far (the information that isn't written out in the chapters).

[Warluster]

Official Statement from Bradenburg
I am in much deep thought about Whether to continue this Brandenburg-polish war. We are in two minds. Shall Poland keep to our terms of Peace? Or attack us again? These thoughts wander threw the Electors mind, for now, we will sign a Cease Fire, a Cease Fire long enough to discuss terms of Peace, what say you Poland? A Cease Fire? Or War?

[SwordsMaster]

Just as a side note, the Elector of Brandemburg can in no way claim the title of King of anything. And if he did, THAT would be a justifiable cause of war for Poland to invade, as that is basically a vassal refusing his oath to his lord.

You might want to rewrite that, warluster.

[Rodion Romanovich]

That's correct. The titles are Elector of Brandenburg, and Duke of Prussia.

[Kagemusha]

I have sent my answers.:smash:

[Marshal Murat]

Have I sent in my decisions?

The Brandenburg's Elector's mind has been renewed, and we ask that you talk with your noble Dutch allies, so that this war can be stopped before it results in further bloodshed.

[Marshal Murat]

Brandenburg and the Commonwealth has reached a decision on the issue of Ducal Prussia, Brandenburg will present the terms reached in a following post.

[Warluster]

Offical Statement from the Elector of Bradenburg
1.Ceasefire between Brandenburg and the Commonwealth
2.No troop recruitment from the people pool in Ducal Prussia
3.Ducal Prussia is to remain Polish Commonwealth vassal
4.Trade and normal relations resume between Brandenburg and the Commonwealth
5.All prisoners are returned to BradenBurg
6.We will not go to war for a minumim of 4 years

This is what we hace agreed on and please no comments, we both think it s fair.

[Kagemusha]

Message from Republic of Netherlands

We would like to congratulate both Brandenburg and Poland for signing an ceace fire. We hope that a solution can be found that will create permanent peace between your two powers.

Embassador of Netherlands

[Franconicus]

This is what we hace agreed on and please no comments, we both think it s fair.
:france: OFFICIAL STATEMENT:
No comment!

[Rodion Romanovich]

REMAINING DECISIONS NEEDED: Holy roman empire

[SwordsMaster]

Hey, Could you update the first post with the recent changes please?

Do we have to substitute the Kaiser too? The whole war is going to be wasted then...


REMAINING DECISIONS NEEDED: Holy roman empire

[IrishArmenian]

The Tsar states that Poland should stay out of Russian affairs. There shall be no Polish interference in this most glorious coup. He awaits an answer from Sigismund. Your son shall not be killed, he shall be exiled back to Poland.

[Kagemusha]

Come on Kaiser!Reveal your moves!:yes:

[Randarkmaan]

The Tsar states that Poland should stay out of Russian affairs. There shall be no Polish interference in this most glorious coup. He awaits an answer from Sigismund. Your son shall not be killed, he shall be exiled back to Poland.


...Or killed, as long as his lungs still breath air the vicious Poles may use him to further their imperialism (OOC: Wow, that last bit was a bit hypocritical :sweatdrop:)

[IrishArmenian]

Now, Sultan, that would be harming a Polish slave, and I hear they could fine me the price of a new slave for doing so. For shame.
The Tsar admits to his affinity for sarcasm.

[Marshal Murat]

Then it is good that the Russian tsar has his own head on his own shoulders!
I don't know why you think I can do anything when the Tsar of Russia is another player.

[IrishArmenian]

OOC: I need a scapegoat!

[Franconicus]

My mailbox is empty! I am ready for the new chapter :2thumbsup:

By the way, I'd like to ask for a couple of favours, LEGIO:

1) Could you mark the time period of the chapter and the period for the next decisions. I always mix that!:embarassed:
2) Could you give us a deadline date?:whip:
3) Could you please update the participant list, please. Lately I am a bit confused about the WHO IS WHO!:dizzy2:

Thank you!

[Rodion Romanovich]

1 - ok!
3 - done!

2 - not sure. I thought our Kaiser was here, but he hasn't posted in a while. It would be really sad if the Kaiser would need to be replaced! Bopa, if you have any questions plz don't hesitate to PM me. I can think of a few things in the latest turn decisions that may have been confusing so if you have questions including your military strength etc just PM me!