Army formations

[Lusitani]

I have been to ask this question for some time....do you guys spend too much time setting up the army at deployment phase?...or just go for the pre chosen possibilities...2 infantry lines..missile troop behind stuff?

[Fenrhyl]

It al depends of th enature of my army and of the enemy's one. If i want to use hidden troops and laya trap, i always deploy the troops myself. If not then there is no absolute rule.

[Lusitani]

Yeah i do that sometimes ....but usually i use the pre-made formations....is there a way to edit those by the way?

[Moros]

Yes there's a way to edit those. Don't know how. Check the scriptorium.

I always deploy them and put a lot of time in the fromations. Also during the battlefields. Unless I need to have them in a formation verry quick (when there's more then 1 enemy army. After fighting the first one you sometimes need to get in formation again quick.). But normally I always deploy them in detail.

[iberus_generalis]

a good disposition of your army is half way done to victory...so i spend quite a lot of time in deployment phase...i study the terrain, looking for ambush places, and hilly areas where i can put my archers/slingers protected by cavalary...
so i guess to me this is most important part of a battle...and normally i stick with my initial plan, only changing it when i get surprised by the existence of certain units like certain kinds of hoplites, and elefants and such...in that case i order my triarii forward in a 3 rank line, with my priniciple at the extremes of the formation, ready to strike the flanks of the enemy units, plus cavalry as in the macedonian formations to make the hammer and anvil thing...i know it is not much of a roman formation but i works most of the time...after the polibian and marian reforms then the triarii start to suck, so i tend to eliminate them from my armies...and make archer, principes/legionary armys, in manipular formations...

but i never underestimate an army so i always plan very carefully the disposition of my armies...and in sieges i never give my self the work of defending walls...its a loss of time, and men..so when i see that i cannot repulse them, i man my archers in walls, so they can kill as much enemies as possible and have some of them engage the invaders on the walls so that the rest of the archers have time to actually run away to the center of the city, and put my shock troops stratigically clogging the streets at specific narrow streets, and make my stand there, killing thousands with few casualties on my side...it might not be as loyal, or honest, but i don't care...my armies must always be at fighting readyness so keeping casualties low is always welcome, and i don't fancy loosing towns garriosoned with a medium/large amount of soldiers...but sometime it happens...=( lol


@lusitanni- És mesmo tuga man?n se veem mts de nós por ca..a kt temp andas nisto do Rome Total War?

(sorry ppl for who can't speak portuguese, im only gretting him, asking if he really is my countryman, and for how long he plays RTW...)

[Cheexsta]

I actually like defending walls. Feels more realistic; in history, if the walls of a city fell then the defenders would likely surrender. None of this "fight to the death" bull in the city square.

And hell, it's more fun to hold the walls at all costs ;) I had one battle in RTRPE against the Seleucids. About 900 Roman defenders in vastly under-strength squads managing to barely hold the walls against some 3000 enemies. Most of my troops were missile troops or cavalry, so I just threw everything on the walls to try and hold the gatehouse. At the end of the battle, the Seleucids held the entire section of the wall, while I still had a handful of troops valiantly defending the gates. Friggin awesome.

In field battles, I generally deploy however I feel like it. My Roman armies normally form the quincux, though they usually form into a solid line as the enemy approaches (except against Phalanxes; splitting my army up makes them do the same, which is better for me). As such, I rarely select an army formation for the *whole* army, rather I split the army into groups and deploy them wherever necessary and with whatever formation they need. Once you've found a formation that you like, it should be pretty easy to replecate each battle.

Another tip: don't leave units grouped together. Groups are bugged something savage, so just un-group them when you're finished setting up the group formation.

[iberus_generalis]

in vanilla i loved defending walls too, but then i started playing EB, and now the defenders of walls look a bit weaker, especially against hoplite units...sometimes my legionaries get totally wiped out by hoplit units using swords..i don't feel it's realistic...some chances for the invader is good, but overpowering them is too much...i just doesnt feel right that my soldiers defending walls get so many caualties and loose so much morale defending walls, man, they should not waver rout, and fight to the death and i cannot control them...maybe in sieges the defending units should stand their ground no matter what, cuz the don't have nowhere else to run to, or at least have the ability to fight thru the attackers and run away from the city, or run away through the alternative gates still under the control of the player...so i got smart and faced my invaders where i actually have a chance..the streets of the cities...tell me if you could hold this situation under control just by manning the walls....
https://img315.imageshack.us/img315/7702/bloodbath1oa0.jpg
guess not...they had rams,ladders,siege towers, and even a sapping point..
https://img125.imageshack.us/img125/4442/tmp8991nk5.jpg
(this pics are some of those i posted in the EB screenshot Thread a few weeks ago...

moving units one by one is boring...i prefer forming my army group by group, but tend to keep my army all in a big formation...but then i put sub formations.. one for the infantary..other for the triarii backbone, and so on...sometimes i don't even have to strike flanks, cuz when the enemy atacks my ranks they see that my army is so well organized, and that they have no chance of breaking my line that it simply wavers and routs, and i play Hard/VeryHard....

[Lusitani]

Thanks a lot for your info guys. I know the importance of a good army setup...although i use the pre-made ones a lot i find that system too rigid to be actually usefull after a battle has begun...maybe EB could do something about it.

@iberus_generalis Avé Scalabitano!! Somos poucos mas bons hehehe, enviei-te uma private msg, Ab

[Orb]

With Armenia, I never found it much effort to deploy vs. Phalangites

1) HAs in front, they gun down any real cavalry the enemy has
2) Kluddolon mercs en masse in the centre, they suicide charge.
3) one weighted flank of heavy cav. overruns their side (flank while the enemy try to deal with mercs)
4) the other heavy cav. flank the other side if that goes to help.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I've only played as Rome so far on EB. What I do is put any Leves at the front of my army in loose formation, quite a bit ahead of the rest of the army. Then the backbone consists of my infantry, with Rorarii at the front, Hastati in the middle, and Principes at the back, all in one big manipular formation. I also put any non-Roman infantry, such as Samnites or Enoci Curoas, in front of the Rorarii. Triarii are at the far rear of the army in phalanx formation, with one other unit of infantry behind them to prevent them being flanked. Any cavalry go to the flanks, usually weighted towards on flank in particular. Accensi are also on the flanks of my army. So, the order of battle is:

1. Leves skirmish a little, then retreat through my army to the back to act as reserves next to the Triarii

2. Rorarii throw javelins and fight, Accensi fire from the flanks

3. If Rorarii start to struggle, Hastati throw javelins and engage throught the spaces left thanks to the manipular formation

4. If Hastati struggle, Principes join in

5. As Principes start to struggle, Triarii are sent in

Whenever the enemy morale changes to 'shaken' or 'wavering' I send in my cavalry round the rear to charge them, hoping to start a chain rout

[Zaknafien]

As the Romans I tend to deploy in the standard triplex acies, with allies on the wings of course.

And hey, the whole fight to the death thing--the Saguntines did it :2thumbsup:

[CountArach]

I like to make most of my armies along a similar vein. For example in my Casse armies I will have 4 Goidillic Spearmen, 4 Mala Gaeroas, 2 Calaware and Cwymr, 2 Chariots, 3 Sotaroas and 2 Goidillic Hammer guys and of course my general. I will set these up in the same way in every battle.

For those who are interested, the pattern is Spears to the front (They have the fast moving ability), Mala Gaeroas Behind on Fire at Will (Will panic the enemy front ranks very often, causing a massive morale drop, which the Spears can then capitalise on).
There is a cwymr, Calaware and Hammerer unit on both flanks, with a Chariot unit further out.
The Sotaroas stay behind my Mal Gaeroas and my general stays behind them.

It is utterly brilliant in defence.

[Discoskull]

My Casse formation is somewhat different. This is my standard army at the moment, which is, in comparison to some, rather easy on the upkeep... I only have 2 of these armies, though the further they travel from Gaul, the spicier they get...
All in all, this set-up is pretty flexible and relatively cheap.
Also, pretty easy to retrain.
I've been playing my campaign for awhile...my warriors have seen much bloodshed, and spilled much blood...and they're expert rapists. They've got it down to a science.


4 max-gold-chevroned Clyddabre (shortswordsmen) in front.

4 Mala Gaeroas behind them of various experience levels.

(those first two switch places if facing more than a couple cavalry units)

2 max-gold-chevroned Calawre behind the main lines, either side, who only get into it if things look bad.

2 Lugoae guarding the flanks to guard against...well, flanking. By cavalry. Always local troops, little experience, rarely armored.

2 silver/gold chevroned Spear-throwing cavalry.

1 max-gold-chevroned Brethen (sp), heavy cavalry.

1 max-gold-chevroned Sotaroas to hit all the right spots at the right times.

My fear-inspiring general, of course

Remaining 3 spots are filled with various units depending on the location - if available, always shock troops - mercenaries or elite local troops. More often than not, these are disbanded after the immediate threats are dealt with...




If facing any western European civ (lots of infantry), it's a cake walk.

If facing phalanx (which doesn't happen as often), the cheap Clyddabre hold the line with help from the Calawre, while the Mala Gaeroas either split up and widen the battle line or take on whatever enemy cavalry is present. The Lugoae help in this as well.
The elite local troops (I enjoy the shock variety) flank the phalanxes, along with the cavalry and archers. If this doesn't break the enemy line, then the sound of my general's chariots will always finish the job. Rarely do my chariots have to actually engage...which is good.
Mostly use my general to chase down and kill the enemy general when he is already exhausted and running for his life.

I have not yet had the opportunity to face all that many scythians with this. Good thing, really, since horse archers would eat this army alive.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Usually I take a lot of time to deploy my units, especially during assaults (playing as KH, I need to adjust unit width pretty often), and I've found one unit of thorakitai or thureophoroi deployed behind a unit of akontistai on the wings to be an utter cavalry killer.

You see, the akontistai are simply irresistible to enemy cavalry (even to generals) and when the enemy cavalry charges towards the akontistai the back up starts eating them. As soon as the enemy cavalry is pinnend down by the back up's I use my outer phalanx unit's to deliver the final blow and from then on: the enemy has no way of flanking my precious veteran phalanxes.

The second thing is that when I have a all cavalry army, (mainly composed of horse archers, one or more generals and sometimes a few other cavalry units), I use my general as bait to lure the enemy away from my horse archers and once again the bait is irresistible to the AI, eventhough the AI can't get anywhere near it.

[pezhetairoi]

I believe a good formation is everything. As Romani I always compose my fullstack legions with 2 generals, 4 equites, 3 hastati, 2 principes and 2/3 triarii. Also, 2 leves and 2 accensii. Deploying in the battle, I don't use the triplex acies formation (it gives too much depth and too little width), preferring instead to deploy in single line formation. I take as much time as is necessary to deploy well, since my battles place a lot of focus on emphasis on fields of fire, and on mutual support.

I place my triarii in the centre and group three of the melee units on either side. The one that I envision requires more defensive power gets 2 principes, the other gets 2 hastati. Two melee units will form the front, and one at the back and directly behind as a rear/flank guard, able to rush out to extend the line or pivot to face rear threats as required. The Triarii are backed by missile troops, the leves in tight formation just behind them, and the accensi out to the flanks, just inside the box formed by the heavy infantry, so they can extend their range to defend the vulnerable flanks, and so I can get a maximum field of fire (i like to direct the fire of my accensi in battles, like artillery fire for effect) Cavalry are out on the flanks, 3 units on either flank, but they don't guard the flank (that's the job of the infantry flank guard), they become flanking columns that defeat the enemy cavalry, then immediately dash around to the rear of the enemy formations, to draw away some enemy units on a chase so my infantry has an easier job, and to strike wherever possible. Hence they are usually some distance away from infantry formations.

I always wondered why the AI gave my Romani the 'standard deployment' of the barbarians, i.e. a solid wedge of infantry... o_O