View Full Version : WotS The Will of the Senate PBM - out of character thread IV
Avicenna
10-05-2006, 21:29
Are you sure that's not Val?
Errm, let's not turn this into the "Babe thread II". But staying way off topic in the interest of gender equity, I confess I find this chap the most watchable thing in BSG:
https://img117.imageshack.us/img117/9227/intenseadamazs7.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
I read a cute story about a scene he did with Laura Roslin, the cancer-ridden President. Their relationship was strictly professional. But there was a pretty emotional scene between them - I think she may have been dying - and at the end, the actor, Edward James Olmos, spontaneously kissed her on the forehead. The actress, Mary McDonnell, was not expecting this and gave him a genuine stunned look that was caught on camera. It was a nice moment on screen and the backstory is sweet.
Off topic? Who says this is off topic?
Vala is actually my new Carthaginian slave girl, I took her straight from Cartago I did, mmmhmmm. Isn't she pretty? :laugh4:
Oi, I need :help: .
Mount Suribachi
10-05-2006, 23:11
I just have one thing to say.
Vala Mal Doran
https://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/ItsLugo/vala.jpg
I'm halfway through series 2 on DVD and I haven't seen her yet ~;)
Even President Roslin is an attractive older woman.
http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/images/cast/cast_roslin.jpg
Phsycho Six does nothing for me though, too much of a barbie doll for my liking
http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/images/cast/cast_six.jpg
OK, we got all the chicks from BSG, I'm done now Simon :book:
Psycho Six does nothing for me though, too much of a barbie doll for my liking.
A barbie doll who snaps babies' necks.~:eek:
I agree, she does nothing for me. Except when she was playing Gina, the rape victim Six. I'm not sure if you have seen that one yet, Mount? Totally different look - natural, casual - and utterly irresistable. Apparently, the actress is like that in real life (natural and casual, not baby-neck snapping).
https://img182.imageshack.us/img182/8464/trishaheflernq1.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Nice head of hair, nice pair of teeth, as the late John Peel would say.
OK, let's lower the testosterone. I should say I find the Balthazar character the other eminently watchable male character on the show. He's kind of one-part Hugh Grant, one-part Renton from Trainspotting and one-part utter git. Quite mesmerising.
BTW, Lucjan - you wanted to know who was this Colonel Tighe that Mount was likening your Consul to? Well, I've found the perfect pictoral signature for your Consul:
https://img80.imageshack.us/img80/7449/ambrosiatighva4.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
:laugh4:
GeneralHankerchief
10-06-2006, 00:05
:dizzy2:
*clicks stopwatch*
Well, things have finally started to get wacky here after...
*checks watch*
...4 and a half months. Surprised we lasted that long. ~:cheers:
Sorry, it's a sad state of affairs when the moderator goes native...
:focus:
hahaha, econ that siggy pic is incredible.
Mount Suribachi
10-07-2006, 20:36
I would just like to announce that due to dying of boredom with Valerius Paullus, I am switching characters and taking over the vacant (and much more interesting) Oppius Aemilius. He is currently serving with the carthage invasion force, in Hadrumentum on the last save.
Death the destroyer of worlds
10-07-2006, 21:31
I've already had the oppertunity of roleplaying Oppius. Results will soon be made available by the Consul.
To be clear, I did not claim him, so he's yours if you want.
GeneralHankerchief
10-07-2006, 22:24
Ah, excellent. The Aemilii will soon rule the world. :evil:
You'll soon see a backstory to Oppius' personality as soon as the Consul deems so.
As a note -
Dutch Guy currently has the latest save. 253-aut-Flavius.
There will be 2, possibly 3 more conflicts following the resolution of this battle, and then this season is finished, midterm consular report comes out along with a report of this mysterious situation between the Aemilii in Afrika, and motions/voting commences as usual.
Dutch_guy
10-08-2006, 16:36
Okay, the battle is done, an easy win plus a man of the hour event. We now have a new general, view the battle report (posted as soon as possible) for details regarding our new family member.
Here's a link to the post battle save: Clicky (http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/253-aut-flavius-fin.rar)
:balloon2:
Dutch_guy
10-08-2006, 19:42
After writing about 3/4 of my battle report, my system decided to crash. Writing the story and uploading / viewing images must have upset my pc in some strange way. So, all my progress concerning the battle report is lost :sad2:
It seems I'm going to have to write it all again tomorrow, or the day after, as time is hard to find the next two days. Needless to say I'll try to get it finished As soon as possible.
:balloon2:
S'ok, no problem. I've got a question for everybody though.
I've finally gotten around to buying a laptop, and it's got all the fancy necessities for Rome and other gaming goodness.
HP Windows XP Entertainment Center Edition
AMD Turion x2 T-56 processor (1.8ghz, with 512+512 l2 cache and 1600 system bus)
2g ram
120g hard drive
But I'm confused about something regarding the video card.
It's got an Nvidia GeForce Go 6150 card in it, with 256meg speed, but on the sticker it also mentions in parenthesis with up to (128 shared video memory).
I'm unfamiliar with shared video memory, anybody have an idea?
This also means that our typically slow Tuesdays and Thursdays will no longer be that slow, as I'll be able to find internet access at school now too through the school's wifi (which on a test run works well outside the actual campus too).
I believe (and someone more knowledgable please correct me) that it means that 128mb of the gfx card memory is allocated to run the fancy XP EC Edition.
Also, I think you've got twin processors in that so ensure you set Rome to run on only ONE of them everytime you run the game - yes has to be reset each time. Forum records show that Rome will run at DOUBLE TIME if you don't do this..
...Benny Hill romans anyone?
You can't turn this down in-game.
Oh, and watch what drivers you pick for the card. Many newer Nvidia drivers are utterly unstable and you will not be able to run any games.
I dumped a Nvidia 6200 256mb card from this PC at home because of this - now running my very old, but trusty and working 4200MX on much later drivers.
BTW - I'll post my battle report tomorrow night, busy just now and Univercity starts tomorrow.
I don't know how to set Rome to do that. O.o I played a few custom battles and I didn't seem to have any issues with the speed, but it'd be nice to know how to do this anyway.
I've never really had any problems with drivers though..
If you've got a dual core processor, you have to ctrl+alt+del out of the game, click the processes tab, right click the RTW.exe and set the affinity to only one of the cpu's. That'll keep everything normal, otherwise after about 20 minutes or so, things get screwey.
Death the destroyer of worlds
10-09-2006, 00:11
If you start doing stuff like that be careful you do not change the priority of the process to something wierd, or you can really **** ** your machine.
I believe you can safely set the priority to high without any adverse effects, I do this regularly. Can this be confirmed?
Death the destroyer of worlds
10-09-2006, 08:55
High should be okay, be you can also set it to max or something and that will seriously mess up your machine as it will get priority over system processes with potentially disastrous results.
Off Topic, I just wanted to put this out there.
For a future PBeM, I think it would be cool to do a WotS style PBeM using BI (with goth's mod if you like :2thumbsup: ) and Mydraal's multiplayer script. I thought we could have two different senates, one for the Eastern Empire and one for the Western Empire. I know that Mydraal's script is not flawless. If the west attacked the east whoever was attacking would have a huge advantage, since the Defender would be controlled by the AI. So maybe you could record what units were in each army, then arrange for a multiplayer battle between the Generals involved? Then you could use the consol (I think) to auto determine the outcome of the battle. The casualties would not be the same, but the a victory is a victory. I know we don't have room for this now, nor do I want to host it, I just want to write it down in here in case someone else is interested in hosting it.
Avicenna
10-10-2006, 14:29
I believe autoresolves are the thing when playing human V human.
There's also the Romano-British KA style one in the throne room.
I.O.U. (the will of the senate PBeM) – 1 x battle report.
First day of University lasted until 18:30hrs and needless to say that after I’d got home, eaten, showered etc I was in no mind to sit and write a report on my latest stunning victory.
(solving problems using the Bernoulli equation is a real pain in the……:furious3: .)
I will try to do this tomorrow now. Can’t guarantee I’ll be in the relevant frame of mind tonight either but if there’s a battle to be had…….well, kill’n stuff is a different matter……
My priority options are Normal, Above Average, High, and Real Time. O.o
If someone can guarantee me that High won't destroy my comp via horrid instability, I'll do it. I wish I knew before I bought the dual core laptop that Rome didn't run well on a dualy, but, on the upside, Medieval 2 is supposed to run great on duals right?
Dutch_guy
10-10-2006, 18:00
Medieval 2 is supposed to run great on duals right?
Yes, from what I've read it is.
Lucky you ! :2thumbsup:
:balloon2:
If someone can guarantee me that High won't destroy my comp via horrid instability, I'll do it. I wish I knew before I bought the dual core laptop that Rome didn't run well on a dualy, but, on the upside, Medieval 2 is supposed to run great on duals right?
Oh? What have you guys heard about this exactly? That's awesome if it's true. And Rome runs fine on dual core, no worries, you just have to set the affinity as mentioned. As far as High priority, as I said that's how I've been running all my games and no problems that I know of. I've seen many other people on the boards do the same. EB even comes standard with a shortcut that automatically sets it at High priority.
Dutch_guy
10-10-2006, 20:11
For the second time in a row I'm having trouble uploading my pictures to imageshack.us
It always seems to accept my first screenshot, but then basically gives a vague reason for not allowing my other shots. It seems to think my ''file format'' is not supported, which is strange since BMP is supported by imageshack and all the files are 1.400 Kb max. Which is smaller than 1.5 MB. So, I can upload some images, and others imageshack just doesn't host. At random.
Does anyone have a clue as to what is causing this - very irritating - problem ?
The story is here, the only thing that needs to be done concerning the battle report is adding the screenshots.
:balloon2:
Why don't you covert them to jpeg? Much smaller files, faster load times for everyone who'll be viewing them, faster upload for you, and not too much image degradation. I've never had a problem uploading jpeg on imageshack.
*edit*
Muahahaha!
Dutch_guy, you could try uploading your screenshots as jpg - I think that's more compact format and so it might upload better (I save my tga's as jpg in Irfanview).
EDIT: Wonderland beat me to it!
Dutch_guy
10-10-2006, 20:57
Well, I managed to upload all but one picture in my post - I if all goes well, the post 'll be up soon.
Thanks for all the suggestions, and I'll be sure to convert them all to jpegs in the future. Come to think of it, this is the first time I've used the BMP format - and probably the last, as jpegs have given me a way less problems.
One last question, Is there a way to convert a whole batch of bpm's to jpegs in one move, could one use Irfanview for such a thing ? I'm asking because It would save me some time, plus I already have Irfanview installed on my pc.
Thanks again
:balloon2:
I guess I should check this out. I'm interested in seeing if Rome will actually run well on a single 1.8 turion core. O.o
EDIT - Geez..I'm starting to get sorely disappointed with this laptop. I've managed to cut my start up process down to 35, but I'd like to get it down to the same as my pc, 20. And No matter what I do, only one cpu and on high priority and what not, I can't seem to manage to get Rome to run nicely. It works just fine, until I try to zoom in, then it gets glitchy, slow and difficult to control. I was under the impression that this would be a good gaming laptop. It has a heck of a lot of ram, the same quality video card as my pc, and the dual core 1.8's, which, to my understanding, was equivilant to a 3.6 single processor, which is .8 better than my 2.8 on the cpu. But, no matter what I do, the cpu runs the game sooo much better.
Grrr..somebody help me get this goofy laptop to work well, I mean heck, it's a brand new machine and it can't run a, what, 6 year old game well? That's ridiculous.
Darn-it! now I.O.U.......TWO battle reports!
Lucjan, are you comparing a laptop against a tower/desk system?
Laptop powersaving software often make them perform below what they should be - its a trade off between portability and battery life mate. :embarassed:
I have the damned thing plugged into the wall right now, and it still glitches out and runs like crap when I zoom in.
One last question, Is there a way to convert a whole batch of bpm's to jpegs in one move, could one use Irfanview for such a thing ?
Though I've never used it, I know Irfanview has a Batch Conversion option (look under the File menu). You may check that out. I know Photoshop can do this sort of thing, but that probably won't help you.
All I want it to do is make use of the components it says it has. :furious3: The correct way, and run nicely, otherwise I would have been better off buying a dirt cheap laptop and upgrading the motherboard and processor on my tower at home.
Lucjan,
You could try the power management software http://www.diefer.de/speedswitchxp/ not sure if it has a version for your processor but its worth a try.
I’m asking a tech friend about the laptop for other suggestions.
Death the destroyer of worlds
10-11-2006, 09:15
My priority options are Normal, Above Average, High, and Real Time.
Do NOT run it on Real Time unless you like to see your laptop commit hara-kiri. Run it on high. Laptops are handy things, but they will always suck at games that require heavy image processing. You might try turning down the visuals or lowering your refresh rate.
Just had a conflab with my mate in IT and he said:
“Ahh Shared memory bad….. Essentially instead of the card having access to its own dimms it uses the standard on board memory. So the cpu sends out instructions to the gfx card to draw some gfx, the gfx card then allocates itself some memory from the standard system memory to store its information. Now the cpu will be also loading the system memory with its own data. What do you think would happen on applications or games that become a little demanding on data?”
So, basically NOT what I thought at first. This does mean that the Graphics on that Laptop are…..*cough* sorry to say…..pretty poor. As your running XP ECE then this will hog a good chunk of graphic RAM meaning you’ve perhaps…..if you’re lucky got about 32 or so left for the Games.
Which would explain why its “choppy”.
Sorry..:no:
To be honest I’m not a big fan of Laptops but the have their place but the one I’ve got (but don’t use for games) has a dedicated Graphics card rather than just a chip-set which is what your’s has.
Then again, it did cost me near £2k GBP which will be like $4k USD!....and I STILL don’t use it for games!
This is why I never bothered with laptops before...but now I know at least I have a very fancy looking, very expensive music/dvd playing machine that can go online anywhere and play some of the still fun but older and outdated games...Knights of Honor, Europa Universalis anyone? lol
Dutch_guy
10-11-2006, 13:40
Though I've never used it, I know Irfanview has a Batch Conversion option (look under the File menu). You may check that out. I know Photoshop can do this sort of thing, but that probably won't help you.
Ah, thanks for pointing that out Tamur!
:balloon2:
OOOOOHHH OOH OH OOOH OOH!
I think I may have found an incredible and silly solution to my whole problem. I don't understand why this would have such a horrendous effect on the fps of the game but lets see if it works...
EDIT -
IT WORKS IT WORKS!
Ok, I don't know why this had such an enormous effect on the game, but grass. It was the grass. (I never play with character shadows, they bother me, so that had nothing to do with it) The moment I set grass to "none", the game ran beautifully. I actually had the game running better on the laptop than it does on my pc! And solely by turning off the grass. That's so weird.
Edit 2 - Now I need to figure out why my pc will run oblivion and the laptop won't. What stupid, silly, miniscule thing do I need to turn off in oblivion. *Runs off on another sidequest*.
Mount Suribachi
10-11-2006, 14:40
Quit whining about your laptops. My wifes (work) laptop is a P2 600Mhz machine! It can barely run Panzer General 2!!! I tried STW, but even on lowest settings I only got a few FPS ~:( Shame, cos it would be conventient to be able to play STW any time anywhere ~:)
But I'm not whining anymore, now I'm rejoicing. :2thumbsup:
My GOD!
I have some incredible news for everybody. The Medieval 2 demo alone has from this moment on consumed my soul.
I'm running a 2.8gig single cell pentium 4, 2 gigs of ram and a 256mb ati x1300 pro, with the following settings.
https://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/ItsLugo/hadto-1.jpg
Can you count all those "Highest"s? I can't even do that with ROME!
Just, just look at these screenshots from my battles! *Squeels in glee.*
https://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/ItsLugo/sweetindeed.jpg
https://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/ItsLugo/heavytoll.jpg
https://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/ItsLugo/spikefield.jpg
https://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/ItsLugo/fireinthehole.jpg
Unforetunatly they're both scripted scenarios with triggers, so I can't provide very much info about the ai, but the demo is incredible, I can't wait for the game.
Now, I haven’t been that impressed with the screenshots on the main thread but your’s are sweeeettttt!!!!
Just goes to show doesn’t it.
BTW – favourite bit, apart from the glints on the armour is BLOOD!! There’s blood! Finally.
Hey and its good to know these settings are achievable on that PC as the one I've got earmarked for Christmas is:
AMD64 3800+
2gig RAM
and a Radeon x1600 Pro 256Mb card.
- all for £397.00 :2thumbsup:
Nice screenies!
Blood and progressively dirtier men during the fight; I didn't think it'd make much difference (I'm not much of a blood-for-blood's-sake sort of player), but it's absolutely great to see the variation this gives to a unit plus you're able to see just how beat up your unit is instead of guessing.
Yes, I was pleasantly surprised by the M2TW demo - it's streets ahead of those for RTW or for BI.
Lucjan: how are we doing in terms of the timing of the mid-term session? I'd like to get it all wrapped up in a week's time as I'm out of the country from 20th Oct. to 6th Nov.
Lucjan is, I believe, waiting on me I'm sorry to say.
He's passed me a save (with 2 battles on it) to play through but its my wife's birthday today so I'm pretty sure I won't be able to complete them tonight.
(she'll what to do stuff "together" or some other "girly" options)
There's been SO many battles this session!
There have been an inordinate number of battles this season, but I'm trying to accomplish everything I can by the end of this season. So far we've had, if I'm not mistaken.
Three battles in the west, four in the east (waiting on braden's last two), one near thrace, and a whole heck of a lot of micromanaging as far as moving everybody about, taking care of individual concerns, maintaining order in our conquered lands without breaking the bank, giving ourselves weak spots and still advancing our infrastructure. Plus there have been some IC projects I've been trying to put together to release at the end of this season, right before the motions open.
EDIT - Wish your wife a happy birthday from the senators too Braden!
FOUR!!!
*cough* if I include the two pending I have now that’ll be NINE battles my consular army have had in less than two years!
Nine battles and SIX settlements taken.
Four indeed…well I’ve never been..…(huff) :laugh4:
- and thanks, will pass on the Birthday wishes.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1254398&postcount=83
A couple of M2TW screenshots I posted at the TWC. Oh god, so beautiful, so wonderful. I can't wait until the game comes out. Movement speeds, so good, animations, graphics, landscapes, everything! My soul too has been consumed...... not good, yet so wonderful.
I really, really, really can't wait. I'll turn Poland into the greatest nation ever to exist!
Just worked out our current in-game year on the old Republican calendar as:
500 Ab Urbe Condita (AUC)
Can I get a confirmation of that from someone else?
Edit - actually, I find it odd that RTR (or rather the 4tpy mod) doesn't change the date to be displayed as the Republican calender. I mean, how can you have a year down as BC when you dont know its before anything.....
Admintestc3
10-13-2006, 14:16
reply
Admintestc3
10-13-2006, 14:25
reply2
Admintestc3
10-13-2006, 14:31
reply3
Oh no, not AdminTest! Not the one who shows up in forums and three days later all the forum members find that someone has nicked all their socks! Heavens preserve us!
Last time he only took one of each pair!! That’s worse I tell ya…
*gasp* Not admintest!
Wait, what's admintest?
Ah-ha! two battles completed:
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/253-Adana.zip
battle report to follow....tomorrow perhaps
Edit: actually I would do the report now BUT Word isn't working on this PC (needs a new Windows install really) but suffice to say - how does 56 Roman deaths against 965 Seleucid deaths sound?
AdminTest is TosaInu's test account with which he tries things out and makes sure that changes work correctly. Very mysterious that he's showing up in a PBM thread, maybe AdminTest is going to join us? ~:)
Death the destroyer of worlds
10-13-2006, 23:15
*Removed joke as it wasn't all that funny*
Well done Braden, looking forward to the report :2thumbsup:
Everything I require to end this season and proceed with midterm motions is in. Econ, feel free to open them at any time. Hopefully we can finish everything before you become unavailable on the 20th.
I'll post a full consular report, 2 personal reports (new idea I came up with, thanks for the help of those who participated), and some other interesting tidbits today, in fact, I'm working on them now.
EDIT - Midterm Consular Report Posted. 1st Personal Report posted, second will be posted later, significant post made in the deliberations too.
EDIT - Midterm Consular Report Posted. 1st Personal Report posted, second will be posted later, significant post made in the deliberations too.
Very nice stuff. :2thumbsup: Congratulations to you and to those who helped with the personal report.
Very nice stuff...
Well, apart from the stabbing and the blood an' all.
~:joker:
You have to admit though, it was a very welcome first action upon Servius's return.
I've updated the FAQ table of our characters. I did it in a bit of rush, so let me know if you spot an error with your character. (I think activity still needs updating).
I noticed that Wonderland still has the double experience bug, as does Silver Rusher. Please can you edit this, Lucjan, as per the instructions in the FAQ? If there is a problem, post here and someone else may be able to help. Also, how did Servius become a former legate with only seven years experience? :inquisitive:
I fixed Wonderlands bug after I uploaded the save, but he's good on that. I was unaware of Silver Rusher's issue but I'll look into it.
And I'll take a look at Servius's legate business also..that doesn't look right at all, it should be seven years as a tribune unless I'm mistaken.
Mount Suribachi
10-15-2006, 20:56
What happened to the posts where someone was RPing Oppius? I've been holding back posting till I saw them, but they haven't appeared...
What happened to the posts where someone was RPing Oppius?
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=70510
Yeah, maybe I should have announced the thread's creation.
But everybody please take a look at, and make use of, the new thread.
"The Will of the Senate - Personal IC Reports" Econ's already linked it.
It's intended to let everybody participate more with in character storylines and move along some sub plots, if not just to add a little bit of in character background and drama to the workings of the senate.
Too many pbem's turn into the typical "this pbem started as a story and then, well, eventually just turned into one big battle report." I've always seen the WotS as more of a multiplayer documentary than a pbem, and historical drama really makes documentaries a lot more interesting. :2thumbsup:
EDIT - Ouch, Servius comes home and he's got a rather nasty bark in the senate. I guess two and a half years chased through the desert and a manipulative clerk pulling strings back home can do that to you. (Reference to Servius's attitude in the deliberations.)
Do consular elections get weighed by influence?
You get an extra point added to your vote for your influence points.
Last elections I only had 1 point, my single vote behind me. This motions period I'll have 4, one for my vote, and three for three influence points.
I fixed the problem with my former legate trait too, that's gone, it's at tribune where it should be.
Who was Silver Rusher's character?
Silver Rusher's character is Gnaeus Hordeonius, although to be honest, I think the player may be inactive.
:jawdrop: The crap just hit the fan in the deliberations. :jawdrop:
Mount Suribachi
10-16-2006, 11:35
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=70510
Well I completely missed that one! :dizzy2:
The crap just hit the fan in the deliberations.
Ha, this should be interesting to watch it play out ~:)
edit: Very nicely done all three of you on the Personal report! An interesting read.
I was playing around with a german campaign to see how they played on our set of mods and found this in the british isles.
https://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/ItsLugo/humor.jpg
Nice to know that even though the goal of the mod was realism, the rtr team still had a sense of humor!
That's a barrel of laughs, methinks.
Just to let people know, I will be away from 20th October to 6th November.
EDIT: And so joining the Upper House until 7th November.
TinCow has kindly agreed to be the acting Senate Speaker during that period - as I do, he will roleplay the Speaker as a separate character from his general; Verginius won't be Senate Speaker. He will also oversee any administrative issues that may arise with the PBM, but from past experience, I suspect things will look after themselves.
If anyone needs to invoke any moderating powers (e.g. editing threads) etc then Myrddraal is the other forum moderator, but again, I doubt that will be necessary.
Those warlocks got me thinking: what if someone modded a unit to basically be an energy sink? i.e. 0 attack, extremely high defence... they would be the ultimate "pinning" unit because once engaged, they would never die, and never kill their enemies! I think these drumstick-wielding fellows are the prime candidates for such a position.
OK, sorry back to our regularly scheduled programme...
And the game would lose all of it's fun factor, because you'd have a unit that could never die... boring.
Very true, and I speak from experience because I just tried it with Gallic peasants. I'm not sure why I thought such a thing would be enjoyable, but it's pretty insanely dull. Don't try this at home.
I remember vanilla spartan hoplites being disgusting though too...they basically did not die unless you mass cavalry charged them in the back half a dozen times.
StoneCold
10-17-2006, 21:45
From what I understand from Lucjan's statement in the deliberation tread, you meant to conquer all of Carthagian land by the end of your term? I was hoping for a little more drawn out battle on that front, a mini 3rd Punic war, where after a short truce, we finally wipe them out. If you take them out now, or at least their most profitable and coastal cities, it will make it hard for them to mount a credible challenge again, and that front will be dull again. :P
Just my 2cents worth of opinion, I always keep the enemies alive to spice things up abit in my game. :P
Too late I realise I didn't understand the seconding part of the midterm motions. Apparently some motions were not seconded enough? My fault for not asking earlier.
I'm not worried about the amendment, I can see where that would be a real pain in the * (asterisk) for the consul. I just want to understand so that NEXT time around I'll actually do something instead of wonder what the format and end is for deliberations.
Too late I realise I didn't understand the seconding part of the midterm motions. Apparently some motions were not seconded enough? My fault for not asking earlier.
Yes, two seconders are needed - I tried to prompt people about that:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1271402&postcount=444
But there's always next time.
It's simply not worth trying to draw a conflict out over a couple years in Carthage. It's a waste of time, resources, and positioning of our lower house generals when you consider the more volatile borders will soon switch immediately to the east and Iberia. Iberia will be ready for war soon, and the Seleucids and Ptolemites won't stop trying to take their land back. If we can flatten Carthage in its entirety now, it'll save everybody one huge headache.
Ignoramus
10-18-2006, 07:40
Can I join this again? I'll need someone to update me on what's happened while I've been gone.
Can I join this again? I'll need someone to update me on what's happened while I've been gone.
I can't quite remember where you left off. But basically, we finished off Macedon and Greece, but in doing so came into contact with Ptolemy and Seleucia. Both declared war on us with a few turns of "first contact". Things were tense for a bit - we lost two Co-Consuls in battle - but the situation in the east has now stabilised with us holding the west end of Asia Minor. The present Consul, Lucjan, has torn the heart out of Carthage. Iberia is the main power we are in contact with who has not attacked us.
Ignoramus,
I can’t remember if you were a Lower member and had the full mods installed or not??
If you were, then it would certainly pay you to upload the latest save file and have a look at the campaign map.
As Econ21 said, I’ve been a very busy boy in defeating Seleucia and Ptolemy locally so you’ll see a large amount or new regions that we control since the last time you joined us. Mostly to the East (Greece and onwards).
Also an important thing to look at would be what armies we have now, where they are and who’s controlling them.
Unfortunately the Senate Library isn’t up to date. So the best method to get up to speed would be to look at the newest save file if you can.
Mount Suribachi
10-19-2006, 17:07
So I'm wondering. Um, where are the Elephants? Invading Carthage I expected to hear of these great beasts trampling our armies. When I played RTW as the Scipii, Carthage had plenty of Elephants, yet I don't think we've encountered one unit of them.
Furthermore, in my Bactria game, I just cannot seem to be able to build them. I have tons of supposedly Elephant producing provinces, yet can't seem to make them. I've come across just 1 unit of Elephant mercs available for hire, and you can't bribe all the elephant containing armies in India.
They all went on a forray after bananas which has led them to Brazil. The unit is now called Irritado Elephants (yet another RTW anachronism, egads), mainly because the natives hide the bananas.
I think the 1.5 patch added it as part of the M2TW's Americas-map marketing plan. I could be wrong though...
Woah, what?
As far as I know, elephants are fairly moot to the ai's strategy.
(Sorry, dutch guy has exceeded his pm storage space, so I'm posting his orders here. And before Augustus has a fit IC in the deliberations, because I know he'll check up on Servius, the proceeds from the demolished provincial barracks in Utica will be spent on that silly hippodrome and the small temple canceled out.)
Utica should not present much difficulty for a man of your caliber. Crush the defenders, enslave the population.
Good luck Flavius, though I doubt you'll need it.
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/253-win-utica.zip
Avicenna
10-19-2006, 21:30
I would like to propose motion 11.01: the consul send a representative to the republic to the tin isles with the intent of recruiting an army of NOWONMAI WARLOCKS
I second the motion! *pounds on the deck of the ship*
In the spirit of staying IC, I have to beligerantly oppose both of you, attempt to demean you, assault your intelligence and then go ahead and recruit the warlocks anyway! But use them somewhere completely different than where the motion stated they were to be used in. :laugh4:
Ahh, I love my character. Servius may need some serious :help: in regards to personality disorders, but he's a genius in that sick, cynical mastermind kind of way. Servius Lecter anyone?
(Sorry, dutch guy has exceeded his pm storage space, so I'm posting his orders here. And before Augustus has a fit IC in the deliberations, because I know he'll check up on Servius, the proceeds from the demolished provincial barracks in Utica will be spent on that silly hippodrome and the small temple canceled out.)
Utica should not present much difficulty for a man of your caliber. Crush the defenders, enslave the population.
Good luck Flavius, though I doubt you'll need it.
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/253-win-utica.zip
I have a bad feeling about this. :sweatdrop: Dutch_guy has not logged onto the Org since 11th October. I'll be surprised if he makes the 48 hour deadline.
I suspect he is a busy student in real life and am a bit reluctant to see him subject to the full Publius Laevinus treatment. I suggest that, if possible, Lucjan cancel the attack and arrange for another general to handle it later. But if people want to autoresolve, you could do that. Henceforth Dutch_guy should be treated as being in the Upper House until he signs back in here.
It's probably a good idea to check before giving a battle to someone who's not been around for a bit. Two days may seem like a life-time to some of us Org addicts, but for other folk it can slip by in no time at all.
Of course, Dutch_guy may pick up the savegame shortly and prove me wrong, but I'm off on my travels soon and just wanted to prepare for the contingency.
Have a good trip. We'll do our best not to break this PBM while you're away. I can't, however, guarantee Alexander's safety, although he may be ok now that Servius keeps insisting on drawing the entire Senate's ire towards himself.
How does everyone feel about a “Deputising” system being put in place?
For example: in this instance Dutch_guy (someone who’s been a regular, a backbone of this forum game for a good long time), is away from contact for over a week and has a battle pending.
Now, what I propose IDEALLY is that if a member knows they will be away for a set period of time and are a member in the Lower House (i.e. a holiday period) they can Deputise another Lower House member to effectively “play them”.
This can be both in-game as their Avatar fighting their battles and as their character in the Senate OR could be just as their Avatar fighting battles and they keep quiet in the Senate floor.
However, if an unexpected inability to play the game (potentially as has occurred with Dutch_guy) should happen then there can be a pool of volunteers to fight the battle for them at short notice.
Most of us don’t want to see the re-occurance of the hearings I conducted on a regular basis, though, it has to be said that was fun in itself I foresee it happening quite often as the game advances on in time OOC.
As we stand the game is libel to take months (perhaps a year even!) to draw to a complete close, and that length of time lends itself to people being away for long periods of time due to – computer problems, connection issues, holidays, illness etc.
Of course, IF someone is on-line and logged in on a Regular Basis but still fails to play a battle within the 48 hours I propose they still get an Auto-resolve result and live with the consequences!
So, to recap and form it so it can be worded as a “Rule”:
1 (a) - Lower House Players are asked that if they are aware of scheduled Holidays or other issues that will prevent them logging into the Forums for a period greater than 48 hours or playing the campaign game for the same period, they are to notify the player base in the OOC Thread. A player can be allocated either by pre-arrangement directly by themselves or from a pool of volunteers, another player to cover their in-game time for this period.
It is up to the absent player to discuss the details of this cover with their Deputy (i.e. Do they also want them to speak for them in the Senate as well?).
1 (b) – Should an “unknown” absence from the forums occur for a period greater than 4 days for a Lower House player, a member of the Deputies will take control of that players Avatar on a temporary basis until their next log-in is registered. These Deputisements will only encompass the Playing through of the absent players avatars own battles and NOT Senate deliberations/discussions.
1 (c) – Supplemental Rules 1 (a) and 1 (b) do NOT apply when:
The “absent” player is continuing to Log-in to and/or post (either IC or OOC) to the .org website. Should a player still be “logged-in” and does not respond to PM’s regarding the allocation of a Battle in-game within the ruled 48 hour window, they will still be libel to an Auto-resolve result AND any IC repercussions of that result.
Does this sound ok, will it be acceptable as a compromise?
_______________________________________________________
Mount Suribachi
10-20-2006, 10:21
No, I like us to be forced to autoresolve now and then. Means we might occasionally lose a battle (or at least take some casualties).
Think of a LH general being away leading to an autoresolve as being our equivalent of Napoleon at Borodino :charge:
On reflection, I agree with Mount - let's stick to the rules and autoresolve if Dutch_guy does not show up. We have enough active players to fight most our battles if we take care over it. However, players and the Consul should be alert to the risks of no shows.
But my earlier point about not being too hard on players overtaken by real life still stands.
Econ, What's your contingency plan whilst your away?
.......actually, why are you still HERE??
Actually Dutch Guy contacted me in pm over night, I just got his message now and told him to check here for his save file. I think he'll be fine.
If everyone's ok as it stands then I'm happy. Afterall, I can't afford "holidays" so it won't effect me *sniff*
I have a holiday coming up in november, but for me, holiday means staying at home and getting as much gaming is as possible. :2thumbsup:
Dutch_guy
10-20-2006, 13:31
(Sorry, dutch guy has exceeded his pm storage space, so I'm posting his orders here. And before Augustus has a fit IC in the deliberations, because I know he'll check up on Servius, the proceeds from the demolished provincial barracks in Utica will be spent on that silly hippodrome and the small temple canceled out.)
Utica should not present much difficulty for a man of your caliber. Crush the defenders, enslave the population.
Good luck Flavius, though I doubt you'll need it.
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/253-win-utica.zip
I have a bad feeling about this. :sweatdrop: Dutch_guy has not logged onto the Org since 11th October. I'll be surprised if he makes the 48 hour deadline.
I suspect he is a busy student in real life and am a bit reluctant to see him subject to the full Publius Laevinus treatment. I suggest that, if possible, Lucjan cancel the attack and arrange for another general to handle it later. But if people want to autoresolve, you could do that. Henceforth Dutch_guy should be treated as being in the Upper House until he signs back in here.
It's probably a good idea to check before giving a battle to someone who's not been around for a bit. Two days may seem like a life-time to some of us Org addicts, but for other folk it can slip by in no time at all.
Of course, Dutch_guy may pick up the savegame shortly and prove me wrong, but I'm off on my travels soon and just wanted to prepare for the contingency.
I was visting Rome* as Part of a school excursion, If I'm right I still have a couple of hours which I do intend to use, to play the battle
I was hoping to let you all know where I was going the day before I left, but at that exact time the Guild was taken of the net for an upgrade (or for repairs). Just for the record, I left thursday a week ago, and the Guild was out wednesday evening.
I do apolosgise for causing such a hassle, and I do thank all those who were maybe even willing to bend the rules for me. I do appreciate it, really. But I do agree, rules are there to keep the show running, so had I not shown up, I'd have respected the decision to keep the show running and auto resolve the battle. However, it's a good thing such an action won't be necessary.
On a side note, have fun on your trip Simon
I'm off to play the battle
* Pictures may be posted in due time
:balloon2:
Dutch_guy
10-20-2006, 14:24
Okay, here's the post-battle save:
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/253-win-utica-fin.rar
Just so we can move on before the battle report is posted (this weekend, or today) I am pleased to say Utica is ours, the city is enslaved and every Cartheginian soldier is dead. We lost about 180 soldiers, mostly Gaullic mercenaries.
Read more in the battle report.
:balloon2:
I thought this was a pretty cool screenie, wanted to share it. It's from my, oh, I don't know, 500th Battle of Pavia. lol
Keep up the quality CA!
:ahh: :whip: I demand it!
*Marks November 10th as a holy day.*
French Gendarmes assaulting Spanish Musketeers, German Arquebusiers charge to relieve the Spanish.
https://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/ItsLugo/Clipboard01.jpg
EDIT - Also, while playing on rtr v1.7 as Illyria, I noticed the Macedonians I was assaulting in Bylasora had a unit of cretan archers with 3 silver chevrons, silver weaponry, and gold armor. Myself, curious as to how much of an enormous amount of money this mercenary group had to be costing them, right clicked them. The unit card said Upkeep: 5. Yes, FIVE. This is on medium camp difficulty, very hard battle difficulty. Can somebody please explain to me this blatant cheatery on the part of the computer, and also, why even on medium, the ai's diplomacy in rtr sucks beyond compare.
Arthurian total war somehow harnassed diplomacy in such a realistic manner that I was astounded, why can't RTR do so?
Total nonsense, that's what it is!
GRRRRR, this is ridiculous already. Macedon had a FULL stack of those 3 silver chevron units, rhodian slingers, cretan archers, mercenary hoplites, I've spent three full stacks trying to dislodge this ridiculous army from Ratiaria.
EDIT - Ok, I had always assumed the ai cheated in all the campaigns I ever played, but on medium difficulty, I just watched it pull 5 heavily diminished units, that did not previously exist in Ratiaria (I just besieged and lost a battle against it and have a spy right next to it, they were NOWHERE anywhere even remotely near it), units not part of Ratiaria's ZoR, out of Ratiaria and move them a few spaces east.
Dutch_guy
10-22-2006, 00:15
Just wanted to post that my (two)battle reports are underway, and yes, I did convert everything to jpeg format.
:balloon2:
Ok, I had always assumed the ai cheated in all the campaigns I ever played
YEA! And have you ever noticed how if the enemy capture a settlement, and you take it back a season later... there are miraculously 3 temples and a level 2 auxilia building?!?!?! They lie cheat and steal I tell you!
Most certainly, but that full stack army of 3 silver chevron uber equipped macedonian slingers and peltasts and hoplites... AAAAGGGGHHHHHH.
I quit the rtr 1.7 version until that kind of garbage is fixed.
I'm sticking with Arthurian Total War, which works, and works realistically.
By the way, first consul report is out.
EDIT - Alright..there are SOOOOO many females being born it's almost impossible to keep track of them all. Can we only report the male births, as they're the only ones that can become playable characters anyway? It's just a pain in the butt tracking down 3 or 4 parents every consular report for characters we can't use.
I'll do an update on the family members section of the Library tonight. Frankly, I think you can ignore all births unless you want to mention them otherwise. I know how much of a pain all that stuff can be and I'm impressed with just how much you continue to report on.
Ah, well thank you.
Nobody knows what that uber army was all about then?
EDIT - I can't wait for M2 to come out. I'm having an aneurism waiting to see if the diplomacy was fixed. I'd like to have allies that actually act like allies, and a ceasefire that means a ceasefire, such things would make me drool on the keyboard!
I just had the following happen. "Alcuyd offers a ceasefire." On their turn, I accept, as soon as I accept, they turn around and besiege a town of mine. This is on Arthurian total war even..which generally has a more decent diplomacy behavior, it still pulls garbage like that on a regular basis. Total War should adopt Knights of Honor's diplomacy system. The diplomacy in that game is incredible.
Death the destroyer of worlds
10-24-2006, 09:02
If you want realistic diplomacy, check out EU II.
TinCow,
Have you updated the Library yet? Just wondered as I can't see any updates to characters there.
Mount Suribachi
10-24-2006, 12:45
Alpha Centauri also has excellent diplomacy (and that game is 8 years old!!). In my Bactria game I had Ptolomy, who had been my ally for many years and who I had repeatedly saved from extinction at the hands of the Seleucids turn round and attack me as soon as I bordered them. Grrrr. The last night, for no reason whatsoever, Macedon (who are the other side of Asia Minor from me) decided to blockade my port at Antioch, thus putting me into another war.
Sadly I don't think this suicidal diplomacy AI has been fixed in MTW2 going by the German review thread and CAs statements to the effect of "increased challenge by the AI attacking you".
Grrr....
This will still be my number one wish for the next tw...better diplomacy.
As for EU II, I do very much like that game, and can't wait for EU III to come out also. I like to play as Holstein and build a baltic empire. I usually aim to control Holstein, Jutland, Mecklemburg, Vor Pommern, Copenhagen, Skane, Gotland, Memel, Finland and Courland. Two trade centers (Mecklemburg and Courland) bring in huge cash stores.
If I'm not playing Holstein I go for Croatia and try for the Balkan empire, or Georgia and try to save the Cacaussus from the hordes.
Death the destroyer of worlds
10-24-2006, 15:56
I usually try to play as the dutch, evolving from Brabant, (with a historic realism mod), but it is really tough in the last 100 years as France gets mega-powerful on the continent. You're not all that popular as a reformed country. Good fun trying to keep Napoleon in check with a protestant-catholic alliance. One of the all-time greats. I've played this game as almost al the 'great' nations.
Alpha Centauri also has excellent diplomacy. When someone surrenders, they stay surrendered and actively help you in your war, ditto in an alliance. I love it. I also love the custom built units, like my anti-grav global insertion probe unit, or the antigrav dropship tank from hell, or whatever you fancy. The only trick that worked against the AI diplomatically was surrouding one of his cities early in the game and demanding the city in exchange for peace. Nasty trick to pull on the AI.
Dutch_guy
10-26-2006, 22:49
The Kirtha battle report will be up soon.
Just a heads up guys.
:balloon2:
Busy day today, I'll be putting up a consular report tomorrow.
hi all, glad to see things are moving along. It's been what one could describe as a pretty dreadful week between sick children and busy work. My apologies for failing to get the Side report up, and now we will be out of town till next Wednesday. I will get it up, as late is better than not at all I guess, but I did want to ask everyone's patience and am sorry I haven't done better when the time came for great (writing) deeds!
Really short consular report up now. Ugghhh..so busy, don't worry though, game is progressing, Marcellus has the save file now.
Mount Suribachi
10-27-2006, 21:19
TinCow, who you taking as your new avatar?
I will be taking Cnaeus Caprarius and will continue in the Lower House. The crippled chap was rather tempting, but I think it's inappropriate to have him be a Lower House general given his -4 movement rate.
Dutch_guy
10-28-2006, 23:30
I will be taking Cnaeus Caprarius and will continue in the Lower House. The crippled chap was rather tempting, but I think it's inappropriate to have him be a Lower House general given his -4 movement rate.
Agreed, although I'd imagine it would make for some nice in-battle stories ~;)
:balloon2:
Dutch_guy
10-30-2006, 14:46
So, how is it going Lucjan ?
:balloon2:
Good, unexpected downtime yesterday with some local internet issues, but I'm back up today and I'll be sending battle duties out soon.
Have just completed a battle, report to follow shortly.
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/win-252-manius1.zip
There's going to be a big Consular Report will be out on friday because I'll have a nice chunk of free time to put out a good one. :2thumbsup:
GeneralHankerchief
11-04-2006, 04:05
Savegame picked up. I have no time to do it tonight, but it will be completed tomorrow ASAP.
hi all,
Due to some rather odd circumstances at work, I have to do a clean re-install of Windows on the computer I do everything on (including play RTW). Except I have to keep the drives clean for storage/manipulation space. So, no RTW (or any other game for that matter). I am out of commission as far as battle go for about two weeks.
I will keep up with discussion & reports in that time, and will post up again when I'm back in action.
Tamur
O.o
Ok...hope everything works out.
Firstly, I have to apologise. I've been very unwell over the last 4-5 days so I've not posted my battle report.
Not sure when I will get a chance as I've got a backlog of other stuff to get through as well.
So, again sorry but I have been attempting to ensure I am ready for a battle if needs be.
Reporting back for duty in the Lower House. How's the Africa campaign going? Will Carthage be conquered before the next Consul takes office?
Conquered in what sense of the word? lol
New consular report should be going up tomorrow pending nothing unexpected occurs.
As for Afrika, the only thing it will have left by the next consulship will be its worthless desert provinces. They can be easily eradicated by the next consul. Taking those is just a matter of time we don't have at the moment.
Also, Braden, hope you're feeling better soon.
Dutch_guy
11-08-2006, 22:17
Well, good to have you back Simon. The Senate Debates could use another strong voice, even though Swordsmaster and Lucjan are giving it their all at the moment ~;)
:balloon2:
With participation dropping and the imminent arrival of M2TW on all of our hard drives, I'm starting to think we should try to aim at wrapping this campaign up. I'd far prefer to see it come to a solid conclusion than simply vanish due to fatigue.
With participation dropping and the imminent arrival of M2TW on all of our hard drives, I'm starting to think we should try to aim at wrapping this campaign up. I'd far prefer to see it come to a solid conclusion than simply vanish due to fatigue.
I was also starting to think about this. We have a choice - stop the campaign mid-stream or go for a couple of blitzing Consulships to complete it properly but quickly. The goals we set for the PBM imply we need to take down Seleucia, Egypt and Iberia. That seems (perhaps optimisitically) doable in two or three Consulships - the question is whether we have the Consuls and the generals willing to see it through.
On the Consuls, given all the accusations made against him, Numerius would certainly be willing to go all out against the Seleucids and Egyptians for real. GeneralHankerchief and/or Braden have also expressed an interest in being future Consuls. It would be good if people could post here about whether they want to stand for Consul the coming election or next. From past experience, it seems a reign can take several months so it is a big commitment although I would try to speed it up.
On the generals, I suspect we still have enough Lower House members willing to fight the odd battle on demand. But if people want to go to the Upper House with the release of M2TW etc, they should speak out freely and we can see if the PBM is still viable.
Honestly with the release of M2 this is going to be secondary on my list of immediate interests, especially if somebody would be willing to start an M2 pbem with me.
Honestly with the release of M2 this is going to be secondary on my list of immediate interests, especially if somebody would be willing to start an M2 pbem with me.
Can you finish your reign before M2TW comes out? (You're in the US, so that would be 14th or something). The last savegame uploaded seems to put us 4 turns away from the end of your reign.
I have Friday, Saturday and Sunday off from work and school so provided I don't get inundated with player battles within the next four turns, yes.
Too many player battles that need to be gone through this turn for me to be able to put out the consular report yet, I had been hoping against this, but...
Tiberius has the latest save file now.
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/251-sum-Tib.zip
Good luck with it! :2thumbsup:
...so provided I don't get inundated with player battles within the next four turns, yes.
I understand. I'm not sure where Servius is on the map (I gather he waltzed off to Rome at some point), but you know what they say - if you want something doing right, do it yourself.
Latest save file, once again, just in case. http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/251-sum-Tib.zip
Anyway, Servius has conquered Palma, and will, (most likely) be retiring to the upper house at his new estate there once his consulship is over.
I'd be interested to hear people's ideas on the best way to wrap up this campaign. If there is a significant difference of opinion (e.g. try to blitz it vs end it now, gracefully), we could resolve it by a vote in the end of reign Senate.
TinCow, what were your thoughts on the best way to bring the campaign to a solid conclusion?
Hi guys,
Still not 100% but getting there.
Anyway….Ending this?? Bu…wha….ya….we can’t do that!
Seriously though, let’s have a think. There are several options.
We could go for the “historical” approach and end the game when we’ve got approximately the same regions that Rome had at her height. (Europe, Asia-Minor, North Africa, Palestine)
We could go to the “insurmountable” approach and end it once we’ve reach a stage where we’re obviously the most powerful and no AI faction is a threat at all. (I’d say once we’ve taken Iberia out)
These are the two options I can see available to us at this time. I have to agree though that, judging by the sudden drop in Senate Deliberation “traffic” the campaign has lost much of its sting.
….and we’re not even using Marius units!
(I’ll go away to bed and sweat some more now…)
I don't think we necessarily need to reach a certain goal for 'victory' since the whole point of this PBM is to have fun. We've had loads of fun for six months. That's the longest Org PBM by far... this is already a 'victory' and I suspect it's just the first of a new style of PBM. I'm definitely interested in doing this again in M2TW in a few months. But, in the meantime... how to wrap this up?
Well, I think the best possible ending to this campaign is a dramatic end in the Senate. I think it would be great if the Republic fell and the Empire began. Given the past history of Numerius Aureolus and the fact that this PBM wouldn't exist without econ21, I think it would be great to see him elevated to Emperor. Of course, this would be accompanied by a lot of bloodshed in the Senate, but that's only appropriate! I think a great ending would be one that somehow made this kind of event plausible. I'm not sure what kind of strategic goals we can set that mimic that, but I'm thinking.
GeneralHankerchief
11-09-2006, 16:28
Well, as my video card is sorely inadequate for running M2, RTW will be my main game for a while. I suppose we could blitz the final three targets under Marcellus' reign.
Perhaps a change of goals is in order? For example, it could be revised to Take the Nile/The Iberian Peninsula/The Seleucid Capital or something along those lines.
OK - so it sounds like we still have at least 3 players who are still interested in being Consuls (Braden, GeneralHankerchief and me), plus there may be more. So I think satisfying our broad territorial goals is viable - I don't think the absence of lower house generals will be an obstacle; we can always get the Consuls to do most of the fighting and autoresolve where necessary. However, there is a risk that the campaign will lose wider interest during a prolonged blitz, so I am open to the possibility of shutting down the PBM earlier. For example, we could have a constitutional ammendment "No more conquests" that would serve as an effective vote for a shutdown.
On the Republic to Empire mechanic, I was thinking of that kind of ending a while back. I had thought about doing it surreptiously - getting enough lower House generals to agree to collude and when we had 50% of the military force, declaring a coup d'etat and installing an Empire. (I hasten to add, I was not thinking of putting Numerius on the throne - the Aemilii seemed the more likely Machiavellian dynasty). However, I never did anything about that idea and now the cat is out of the bag, it would not really work. The problem now is that the Consul can manipulate the assignment of troops to make sure his favoured gang get 50%+.
But we could work out a similar mechanic based on commands: each general with a Legion banner could be worth 1 point and a Field Army 2 points (Consular 3 points, if we ever get one again?). When a group of players has more than 50% of the total points, they can install an Emperor. We could even fiddle around with the points to reflect other factors (command stats? governors of big cities could be given some points etc). We could make commands permanent, to stop a Consul stripping them, unless the Senate agrees by a 2/3 vote.
This kind of thing might add some spice to keep the Senate bubbling over while the Consuls blitz the map.
Any thoughts?
Dutch_guy
11-09-2006, 20:02
Well, I think the best possible ending to this campaign is a dramatic end in the Senate.
Yes indeed, if this thing ever ends - it should be like that.
On the Republic to Empire mechanic, I was thinking of that kind of ending a while back. I had thought about doing it surreptiously - getting enough lower House generals to agree to collude and when we had 50% of the military force, declaring a coup d'etat and installing an Empire. (I hasten to add, I was not thinking of putting Numerius on the throne - the Aemilii seemed the more likely Machiavellian dynasty). However, I never did anything about that idea and now the cat is out of the bag, it would not really work. The problem now is that the Consul can manipulate the assignment of troops to make sure his favoured gang get 50%+.
:computer:
Oh man, you should have kept that to yourself !
However, it does beg the question, how would the military get rid of their adversaries - one way boat trips seems a bit like an anti-Qlimax if you ask me.
Anyway, I shall probably be picking up M2TW as soon as possible, and coupled with the fact my exams start next week, which basically means anything as time consuming as running for Consul seems out of the picture at the moment...
However, that said, I will keep on playing this in the Lower House and Rome will not be uninstalled anytime soon, but merely for the single Battle under one of our Consuls
---------
I was also starting to think about this. We have a choice - stop the campaign mid-stream or go for a couple of blitzing Consulships to complete it properly but quickly.
Blitzing this thing just to end it seems a bit harsh, tons of hours by a ton of players have gone up in the PBM and blitzing the map to end it as fast as possible seems inappropriate. But you probably concluded that yourself...
:balloon2:
Oh man, you should have kept that to yourself !
Sorry, perhaps you are right. :oops:
OK, I've got an idea for how to end this PBM. I am going to keep it secret for now, so let's just play along as normal and you will see things unfold. ~:smoking:
People are welcome to suggest their own ideas and I may incorporate them too if they can fit with what I have planned. :listen:
I will be keeping RTW installed as well, even after I switch to playing M2TW, so I will continue to be available to fight battles. I also don't think we need to end this immediately, but it might be wise to develop a plan for a long-term resolution.
Someone else mentioned the Marian Reforms and I think perhaps it would be good for the game if we hurried that along. Am I right in thinking that we need an Imperial Palace someplace outside of Rome to initiate the Reforms?
*very interested to see econ's ideas unfold*
I haven't been on the ride long enough to really weigh in on how it should end. I would, however, like to say that's it's been really tremendous fun to read along at some brilliant and at times hilarious discussion and reports. You all have done a superb job with this.
I am very much hoping that a parallel M2TW PBEM will come along at some point in the future.
Someone else mentioned the Marian Reforms and I think perhaps it would be good for the game if we hurried that along. Am I right in thinking that we need an Imperial Palace someplace outside of Rome to initiate the Reforms?
Good idea - in practical terms, I think we need to find the biggest settlement in Italy except road and then pump it up through enslaving other towns (temporarily emptying other settlements of governors). Should be doable, provided the Senate does not rule out any further conquests.
I'd be very willing to start a m2 version of this PBEM, and I'm almost certain that we could count on most of our current players to be there too.
Econ, Tincow, Flydude, Braden, GeneralHankerchief, DutchGuy, Tamur?
I would definitely participate, but I would like to wrap this one up first before we start on a second one.
Dutch_guy
11-10-2006, 17:22
I'd be very willing to start a m2 version of this PBEM, and I'm almost certain that we could count on most of our current players to be there too.
Econ, Tincow, Flydude, Braden, GeneralHankerchief, DutchGuy, Tamur?
I'm up for it, sounds like a lot of fun.
However, as TinCow has said already we should make sure this PBM get's the ending it deserves.
:balloon2:
Definitely up for a M2TW PBM but if it is to be a sprawling Will of the Senate style job, I agree we should finish this one first. My idea for a conclusion should entail wrapping this one up by the end of the next Consulship - ie before the Christmas break - if people are willing to give it that long. If people want to hurry things up, that would be possible too.
I think it would be good to wait till around Christmastime to start a M2 campaign -- simply because that will give those of us under monthly budget constraints ~:) the chance to get the game and play it for a couple of weeks to get the feel of things.
Besides, rushing through an ending here would be a bit of a disservice to all that's gone on before.
Waiting until Christmas is fine by me, that gives everybody some time and we can wrap this up in a well deserved, respectable manner.
Just as a further note on the M2 idea..what would everybody think of playing the HRE? Players taking on the role of an electoral Duke, rather than a senator, and appointing the Emperor for a time, rather than the consul. Just an option.
Yes, HRE would be fine by me. Great units and an exciting central location. The elected nature of the HRE Emperor fits a Will of the Senate style game perfectly. It may be good we are waiting for Christmas - HRE were hard in MTW and we may need some solo practice beforehand to avoid getting whupped.
This is true, but getting whupped early could always be interesting too, it'd force us to really fight hard and work strong together early on to survive. I'm personally looking forward to giving the French a good beating.
Dutch_guy
11-11-2006, 11:41
We could also go for something different this time, an eastern faction for example. Like the Turks.
That way we have to fight off the Timurids and the Mongols when they appear, plus I don't seem to remember us ever starting a PBM with an eastern (muslim) faction.
:balloon2:
Or go for the real challenge, Poland. The szlachta (nobility) of Poland were all equal to each other, no man regarded as being higher than any other, and the king was elected (although this part was moreso in idealogy than actual practice, although it did occur) from amongst the szlachta to be "first among equals".
That way we've got a semi-eastern semi-western faction with a fairly difficult starting situation.
EDIT - Waiting on Braden for a battle return.
Just to say that HRE died early in my first English game - and apparently in Monarch's. The killer seems to have been the Danes. So it does look like we thought that HRE are going to be a challenging faction - which is good.
Dutch_guy
11-12-2006, 14:49
Guys, a quick question: If I were to uninstall BI, it wouldn't automatically uninstall Rome, right ?
Not too long ago I uninstalled MTW VI, and it also uninstalled MTW in the process.
:balloon2:
Wait..econ, you have the game already? O.o And I have to wait until Tuesday... grrrrr
Guys, a quick question: If I were to uninstall BI, it wouldn't automatically uninstall Rome, right ?
I fear it does. I got a warning message of that kind just before I tried to uninstall it.
Wait..econ, you have the game already?
Yup, some initial impression here:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=71819
I've been playing as much as I can since Friday evening and it's growing on me. My English campaign on VH/VH is surprisingly challenging, without either repeated mass AI stacks or +7 type stat bonuses. It reminds me of STW/MTW in that regard. I'm only now about to storm Paris; the Scots have besieged Eginburgh and are about to take it back; the Poles beat my Crusade to Antioch when the shore was just in sight; the Pope hates me and fries my generals; it's all good. (Well, apart from the smell of burnt flesh, I suppose.)
Dutch_guy
11-12-2006, 19:58
I've been playing as much as I can since Friday evening and it's growing on me. My English campaign on VH/VH is surprisingly challenging, without either repeated mass AI stacks or +7 type stat bonuses. It reminds me of STW/MTW in that regard. I'm only now about to storm Paris; the Scots have besieged Eginburgh and are about to take it back; the Poles beat my Crusade to Antioch when the shore was just in sight; the Pope hates me and fries my generals; it's all good. (Well, apart from the smell of burnt flesh, I suppose.)
What kind of bonusses does VH give to the AI in M2, have you got any idea ?
:balloon2:
No, they are not very apparent. I asked but did not get much joy:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=71739
The VH campaign may help explain why the Pope hates me and I have few friends. The powerful Venetians did approach me with an alliance though.
On the battlefield, the match ups do not feel "unfair" - my units don't fare worse when facing equivalent AI units - so I suspect VH battles may be the default for experienced players.
Just to let you know I have a battle to do tonight. Sorry for the delays here, I'm just all over the place with illness....
Will play this battle tonight AND post my last battle report up tonight as well.
I've been playing M2 as well on H/VH and I haven't noticed anything that looks like AI cheating. (Before anyone comments on how I have it early, I would like to say that I pre-ordered it 3 weeks ago. They've already taken my money, so I don't feel bad getting the product.) Diplomacy has been very fair towards me and my serious problems with the Pope have been entirely of my own making. I win pretty consistently in battle, but I have had two major defeats.
The first was a combination of the second and third battles of the game, during which I expected to completely eliminate Scotland. They attacked me with two small armies to relieve the siege of Edinburgh. Even combined they were smaller than me and I had a good defensive position on a hilltop so I put my main line facing the army I thought would arrive first and put two spears to hold the other army until the first was done. Unfortunately, the AI coordinated the armies and struck at the exact same moment. On top of that the main army broke half my line in the initial charge. I eventually rallied and won, but lost half my army in the process. Still on the AI turn, Scotland moved a 3/4 stack into the attack. I could have held it off with my full army, but with the huge losses from before it was hopeless. I lost my entire northern army and it took me about 10-15 more turns to finish Scotland.
The second was assaulting rebel held Bruge. I assaulted with 5 siege towers and a ram with about 10-12 units of spears ready to climb the walls. Unfortunately, the rebels had 4-5 very decent infantry units on the walls along with crossbowmen. They burned 2 siege towers and the ram, leaving me with only 3 assault points on the walls. They moved their heavy infantry to those spots and proceeded to assault my units on the walls from both sides. I kept feeding new spears into the fight (siege tower climbing isnt slow anymore) but with heavy infantry on both sides of the assault points, it was a losing battle of attrition. I eventually withdrew with 2/3 of my army dead.
As for HRE, they're still alive and relatively stable in my game. I've been very friendly with them for most of the game. The heir to the throne recently asked me to assassinate his father so he could become King (Reward: 5000 gold and increased relations with HRE). That was easily the most unconventional mission I've been assigned yet, though I've had a few other interesting ones.
Sieges are the most incredible things I have ever seen rendered on a computer screen. There's nothing that even remotely compares to the graphical beauty of a row of trebuchet doing their work. The AI is very good on siege defense too. I've seen the AI sally with cavalry to attack two units of trebuchet I left vulnerable, VERY smart! When defending fortresses and citadels (with multiple rings of walls) they systematically withdraw to the next level of wall after each has fallen. During an assault on a French citadel (ouch those things are tough) the AI even used counter-battery fire with a pair of trebuchet of their own from inside the walls.
Complaints: France and Spain have had problems with Crusades. Both made large Crusade armies, put them on boats, and shipped them to the North Sea. They then proceeded to land and re-embark every single turn until the Crusades were done, at which point they walked back home. Also, I've noticed the passive AI bug several times. They will sometimes sit there getting slaughtered by my longbows (which are VERY decent IMO, not nerfed at all like some say) when the AI logic engine should make them assault all-out.
I can't wait until tomorrow. *Gets the game tomorrow evening* W00T! Then I have all thanksgiving week off of work to gorge myself on it. Thank you vacation days!
Ok, just to let everyone know that i have the save file but the Uploader doesnt appear to be working (either that or my net connection is timing out).
I'll upload it from work tomorrow morning
What a pain
Why do the forums look all bugged out and weird lately? I don't like it..
Ignoramus
11-14-2006, 04:51
I would be willing to do HRE PBeM campaign. The only reason I dropped out of this one was because it wasn't that enjoyable being in the Upper House. I couldn't download all the mods, so I couldn't ever be consul, thus the fun ebbed away after the first 15 years. But it certainly is the best PBeM the Guild has ever had.
Save file uploaded (suspect issues with a slow internet connection last night at home), will post TWO battle reports tomorrow morning (will upload stuff from work as its fast and reliable at least!).
BTW – we suffered zero casualties in that last battle.
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/251-sum-Manius1.zip
M2:TW campaign – I’d love to take part in it as a member of whatever we use as an equivalent of the Senate Upper House.
My current PC will firmly NOT play M2 in any form; and I am not adding anything to it (seeing as its still physically in “bits” but working since the last problems I had).
New PC is on the cards in about 10 months (i.e. when a loan is paid off).
So, doesn’t really matter to me what faction we play in it but I’m looking forward to it!
20+ years of LARP and RP experience in a Medieval setting means I’ll be well up for playing characters.
Mount Suribachi
11-14-2006, 14:49
Just to let you guys know, I will be away from Wednesday to Sunday night
Just to let you know that I am fully up to date on battle reports now. I really must total up my kill ratio…..
I just noticed that tomorrow is the 6 month anniversary of the start of this PBM (brainstorming began on May 17th, actual play began on May 22nd). As such, here are a few interesting stats on what has been (IMHO) the most successful Org PBM ever.
Total WOTS related posts: 4,210
Percentage of all Throne Room posts related to the WOTS:37.46%
Players involved: 32
Saved Games Uploaded to the Org: 221
Actual Turns Elapsed In-Game: 118
Average # of Posts Per Turn: 35.67
Average # of Saved Games Per Turn: 1.87
Great job guys. I never thought the game would last this long.
......and still going. I fought a battle only last night!
Battle report posted up now.
.....and why doesn't Edit work!!!
....and why doesn't Edit work!!!
No idea - is anyone else experiencing this problem? You are still showing up as a member with no warning points, so you should have an edit button. I suggest you contact the membership admin, Ser Clegane for help.
PS: Congrats on the stunning run of victories. Was the last battle report really autumn, rather than summer? or is there another one to come (last savegame download is labelled autumn).
Hmmm...it may have been summer, was working from Memory but was sure of it.
No, no other battles to post at this time......
....hang on. Ok, as a habit, after I exit the battle after winning I always Hit the Advisor button to make sure that when I save it there is no corruption, and I'm sure it said it was Autumn.
Could still be wrong, my memory being shoddy at the best of times.
....and does it seem I'm running things at the moment to you as well??
....and where is the chat gone on the IC section? I've asked valid questions IC and its as if the Senate has all gone home (*sniff, sob*)
Edit button - it "could" be a cookie issue. I'll look into that first.
We're definately in autumn already, I just haven't had the time amongst everything I've been trying to accomplish at once lately to sit down and right up a consular report.
..sorry, I know, ok, I admit it, I was playing M2. lol Can you blame me? I'll get around to it most likely tomorrow morning after I get home from work.
But after autumn we've got winter and spring, and then elections. I hope everybody is ready for the next two months. This time, there will be no calm before the storm.
Regarding my IC request. The core rules do not allow retraining except for upgrades, so I thought my idea was not only more realistic but in the spirit of the rules.
Manius would get a fresh replacement unit, but the other would be moved to Italy and disbanded.
BTW - when in RTR is the Marius event set for?
Also, the RTR Forums are working again! :2thumbsup:
Disbanding valuable veterans is too hardcore for me - although I know some RTR folk have recommended doing that on historical grounds. We can't retrain, but we can "top up" depleted units with men from fresh units. That's what I do in my solo play anyway. It's kind of like real life military units receiving replacements to bring them back up to strength.
For the Marian reforms, we need an Imperial city inside Italy, but excluding Rome.
Death the destroyer of worlds
11-18-2006, 12:29
I have begun studying :book: for several Sun Certificates which will take all my free time for the next couple of months. That's why I've been so quiet lately. As such, I will have to move to the upper house. I would like my avatar to take up a governorship if possible.
On a side note, I am very interested in hearing about everyone's experiences with MTW2.
Hi DDW - I was wondering where you have got to. No problem going to the Upper House, but it would be good if Lucius could promote Marcellus's cause in the Senate.
On M2TW, most of the WoS players who have expressed an opinion seem to rate it very highly (TinCow, Lucjan, Wonderland, Tamur etc).
I don't like the feel of the battles as much as RTR: PE, for some reason - it may be the unit cohesion bug thing. But they do offer better gameplay. There's a question mark over AI passivity but otherwise, CA have managed to make VH battles fairly competitive without blatantly rigging the stats.
The campaign aspect is greatly improved - on VH as England, it is admirably tight and the AI seems as if it is actually learning how to fight. For example, I'm currently having a nice standoff with a pair of Danish stack, for example - in RTW, they would either split up or attack me peicemeal; in M2TW, they are just happily guarding Hamburg and not attacking my strong stack on a bridge. I really don't know how to end this - if I attack, I know losses would be so high, it would a pyrrhic victory if a victory at all.
I've had similar situations. Me and France sitting on opposite sides of the Rhine with equal sized armies. With the eruption of war with Venice I had no choice but to accept a French proposal of a ceasefire. Just couldn't afford to fight two wars at once at the time.
Dutch_guy
11-18-2006, 17:18
The campaign aspect is greatly improved - on VH as England, it is admirably tight and the AI seems as if it is actually learning how to fight. For example, I'm currently having a nice standoff with a pair of Danish stack, for example - in RTW, they would either split up or attack me peicemeal; in M2TW, they are just happily guarding Hamburg and not attacking my strong stack on a bridge. I really don't know how to end this - if I attack, I know losses would be so high, it would a pyrrhic victory if a victory at all.
Yes indeed ! After about 80 turns I finally managed to drive the French out of Northern Europe, and re-enforce Antwerp to drive back the Danes.
However, the Sicilians (who hold Dijon ?!) and the Spaniards (who hold the iberian peninsular and part of Africa) have decided they want a piece of me. And started a very, very costly war against me. Too bad for them I was finally able to have three standing armies in N-Europe. Which basically means I'm currently besieging Spanish held Bordeaux and Sicilian held Dijon. My third army is marching for Hamburg, which the Danes have held for the majority of the game.
Had they, however, decided to attack me...say...25 turn ago they would have swamped me. As by that time the French were still a major force, and the Danes were still trying to force Antwerp from me. I would have been hard put to defend against 4 major powers so early on.
Luckily for me that didn't happen.
:balloon2:
Just spent the better part of a day on M2TW and got to turn 90 in my English campaign. I experienced a lot of really good battles - some of the best ever in a TW game.
- (A cheesy one to start) The stand-off with the Danes outside Hamburg resolved itself when their double stack decided to try to storm the bridge (kudos for them attacking together, instead of sequentially as in RTW). Unfortunately, I had just read Ignoramus's post about stakes and bridges, and I could not resist. I could not put stacks on the road, but covered the sides. Then I stuck three shiltrons in the game on the road. It was sad. The Danes had lots of wonderful infantry, but lost everything for the cost of a couple of my mercenary spearmen.
- A more honorable battle followed on the 18th year of besieging Hamburg, as a Danish relief force and two smaller armies tried to save the castle. I set up a corner defence and remembered to post stakes. Then I shot to death the main Danish army and charged when out of ammo. Unfortunately, I had lost track of the two supporting armies who were hidden in the woods. They killed all my knights, although I beat them in the end.
- Had a superb mountain-side defence while besieging Bern. The map reminded me of Shinao in STW or some of the nice Italian mountains in MTW. I forgot to deploy stakes, but did not need too - the height advantage was too great and I crushed a 1:2 force of high class Milanese.
- Discovered perhaps the killer strategy in M2TW: crusades! Launched one on Milan, picking up four crusader knights and a host of sergeants. Still wondered how I would take Milan, as I had only two swords. But the Milanese immediately counterattacked, sandwiching me between two armies. Finally got to use knights in numbers and was very impressed. I am going to try to field four per stack now - they are just excellent at collapse flanks after you've expended your ammunition. They are also very useful for hunting down those annoying Milanese crossbows, if they get separated from their main force. Reached about 34000 florins for sacking Milan. I immediately tried to spam a second crusade to Genoa, but thankfully the game imposes a waiting period between crusades.
Bottomline: I take back what I said about RTR:PE battles being better. I now prefer the M2TW ones. The M2TW terrain is just beautiful and the higher kill rates make the battles feel more vivid.
I've been playing a Spanish campaign since I started the game a few days ago.
Currently on turn 68 and I have Leon, Toledo, Zaragoza, Valencia and Palermo. At war with Portugal who has Cordoba and Lisboa (and thanks to an enormous naval trade they've built, one which I simply can't match because of their naval superiority) they've actually managed to hold their own for a little while. But the loss of Palermo was a big mistake on their part and it's going to cost them the war.
Siege of Palermo - I had 4 Padded Armor Spears, 3 Mailed Knights, 1 Padded Archer against 2 mailed crossbows 2 mailed sword militia, their crown prince, and 1 dismounted feudal knights. I was intending to wait this out to the very end and hope I'd get some reinforcements there before then, but they sallied on the second turn of the siege. Their biggest mistake was committing their militia and knights to combat with my padded spears and expecting their crown prince to hold my knights with support from their crossbows. They slaughtered my infantry in melee, I lost some 240 spears, but having three mail knights to their single prince allowed me to pin their knights and then charge twice from opposite flanks. We both lost our commanding officer at exactly the same time, but I got lucky in that theirs was the prince, not just a captain, and after some coaxing by my surviving knights, they all attempted a retreat back to the castle. Hunted down and exterminated every last one of the buggers.
Bridge Battle north of Cordoba - Just had the enemy try to cross a bridge with about 5 mailed sword militia against 2 padded spears and 4 padded archers, caught them in a crossfire as they came across the bridge and while the spears pinned them in one spot, they never stood a chance. Ran them down with mail knights and ransomed the lot of them back for 2,300 florins.
Right now I've got a crusader army led by my prince marching to Jerusalem (in Northern Italy now), comprised of 4 feudal knights, the prince, 4 padded spears, 1 dismounted foot knights, 3 crusader spears, 2 crusader knights, 2 padded archers, 3 pilgrims.
And my other large armies are located in Palermo, defence against any potential French aggression, consists mainly of a buffed up army that took the city plus some extra missiles.
And a fort north of Cordoba with 2 generals, 5 mail knights, 5 padded archers and 4 padded spears.
Oh, and I forced through an election of one of my cardinals as Pope. ~:) I had three cardinals in, won the vote by having them all vote for my top cardinal and securing Englands vote through the offer of an alliance. Milan went along with it too without any extra prompting.
....erm...hate to be the one who mentions it first but....
.....danger of being seriously Off Topic guys!
M2:TW discussions on the M;TW thread please :idea2:
Let's not let M2 consume us to the point that we fail to finalise perhaps THE best and most successful (not to mention long running) PBeM on these forums.
Yeah, about that, lol, Flydude has the save file.
M2:TW discussions on the M;TW thread please :idea2:
Good point, sorry. :embarassed:
Mount Suribachi
11-20-2006, 18:03
Just to let you know I'm back (and dying of boredom in Afrika ~;) )
I'm working on it. :laugh4: But I can't just move you out right this moment and have your town revolt. :shame: Next turn I hope! (Which is coming up tonight!)
Mount Suribachi
11-21-2006, 18:14
Instructions received. Battle will be fought either tonight or tomorrow morning.
Off topic and I don't care....
check out the teaser trailer for "300"....you must you simply must.
http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/preview/1809721014
..ok, normal service can resume now and I'll get back into my box.
Off topic or not who cares. I saw the preview for that when I went to see Borat, and it looks absolutely spectacular. Makes me forget about my general distaste for the Greeks and be a Spartan!
StoneCold
11-24-2006, 21:46
why are the spartans naked? Don't they have breastplate? IMHO, it is too bad they choose to do the movie from the comic 'the 300' instead of from the book, 'the hot gates', probably for the dramatic effects present in the comics. But it makes it seem like spartans are a bunch of barbarians... :P In the book they are more cultured.
New Consular Report posted, it's an interesting read. Newest save file going to Glaucus.
Battle over and won, 97 of ours for 1287 of theirs. Of our 97 casulaties, only 15 were Romans, and only 5 from other parts of Italy. The rest were Gaullic mercenaries, no real loss. Report to be posted tomorrow. Save game passed on, I think.
I always wondered if that emergency session provision of the rules would come in useful, and here we are. This ought to make things interesting. Might even drag some of us away from MTW2 for five minutes to make a post or two.
Mount Suribachi
11-25-2006, 10:23
why are the spartans naked? Don't they have breastplate? IMHO, it is too bad they choose to do the movie from the comic 'the 300' instead of from the book, 'the hot gates', probably for the dramatic effects present in the comics. But it makes it seem like spartans are a bunch of barbarians... :P In the book they are more cultured.
Doing it from the comic gives them the license to do what they want without fear of criticism from "historical purists" ie, us lot.
As for the Spartans - cultured? Ha! As my friend with his degree in Greek History said, "bunch of ******* weirdos". Over-rated as warriors too ~;)
I have to agree with Mount Suribachi on this one..
As for the new situation with Iberia. I told you Servius had one more trick up his sleeve. His initial opinion was defiance towards further eastward expansion. And when has he ever failed to get his way?
Well folks, seems my absence is warranted as I'm now dead :shame: . I checked out a save game a couple of days ago only to see I was nowhere to be found. With the latest Consular report I see why... damn pirates...
I'm sorry but it couldn't be helped. I re-loaded the save 4-5 times to see if we couldn't somehow get the AI to botch and not attack you. I know we're typically not supposed to do that, but I felt guilty after all the waiting you did when you were only 1 season from all the action getting started up in Gaul.
Maybe you should just pick up with Quintus Naevius. He's leading the legions there and currently not a taken avatar. It'll put you directly in the middle of the central conflict point.
Yes - it's a shame, Wonderland - Cornelius Saturnius was shaping up to have superb stats and traits. Please have a look at the latest savegame and take your pick of the spare avatars - the FAQ table is up to date about those that are taken (aside from poor Cornelius).
If this turn of events results in a Civil War (not that I would ever wish such a thing :creep:) it would be nice to resolve it with a multiplayer battle between the two contenders to the Imperial Throne (I mean Consulship, of course). The winner would then be able to create his or her own 'future' for Rome and writeup a WOTS ending in whatever way they saw fit. It could be an exciting ending to an exciting PBM.
If this turn of events results in a Civil War (not that I would ever wish such a thing)
Nor I, nor I.
*nods sadly, then gets out the popcorn and hopes one of them has Camtasia*
With Lucius's recent proposal of killing Servius on sight, I think we already have one of those contenders placed. Not to say we won't end up with a triumvirate or heck, maybe 4-5 contenders for the highest seat of Roman power.
But if that motion passes it should be clear that Servius has usurped total control of at least his own legion, and being that he's come to see himself as somewhat of a godsend for the republic, will not go quietly.
As of right now we're in the beginning part of my last season. I sent Wonderland a battle if he decides he wants to take Quintus Naevius, if he doesn't want him I'm autoresolving it.
EDIT - However, Servius is, if anything, a man truthful to himself, and if left to retire to Palma after the Iberian war as he has stated his intentions to be, will give the senate no more troubles and retire from public life.
We could also look at it another way. Servius has major support in the East with experienced and victorious legions there…..to me it seems that most of those opposed to him are power-based in the West and in Italy so we certainly have a East/West split already!
Manius “would” contest the leadership of the Republic (or whatever it ends up as) apart from his loyalty to Servius. Should Servius be killed though, Manius would certainly contest openly though.
Think of Manius being a “more loyal” Brutus to Servius’s Caesar.
As for multi-player games. I have to say that’s a very good idea but I’d approach it with caution mainly as I’ve never played a multi-player game, am unsure if RTR is capable of such a thing and not sure of the LAN set-up required??
So, if someone is able to steer me through all that then Manius’s Legion would certainly be present fighting alongside Servius.
It would also be interesting if it was possible to represent the type of forces each “faction” is able to field with a reasonable accuracy.
I am going to put up an "out of character" poll along with the emergency motions to gauge people's views on when they want this PBM to end.
I will present the following options:
(1) End it around the time Servius's term is due to naturally end (ie within a few turns).
(2) End it in around the mid-term of the next Consul (ie around 10 turns).
(3) End it around the end of the next Consul's term (ie around 20 turns).
(4) Keep it going beyond the reign of the next Consul
People have presented scenarios that would mean any of the above options could work, but it would be good to know people's preferences. We will try to end the PBM in a satisfying way, so whatever option people prefer, I won't just say "right, that's it - thread closed".
I guess basically it depends on people's interest - if you are losing interest (e.g. due to M2TW) and would like things wrapped up soon, vote for an early end; if you are still keen to keep going (e.g. you don't have M2TW or want to be Consul etc), vote for a longer period of closure.
Looking at the time it has taken to get through reigns, we have:
Quintus - 6 days
Lucius I - 13 days
Verginius - 18 days
Tiberius - 31 days
Lucius II - 41 days
Servius - 79 days+
Clearly, the campaign is taking longer as the Republic grows, but I think we could speed things up - maybe by setting up a "relay" system for fighting battles out each turn (lining up involved lower house generals and their time zones/availability, then getting them to pass the saves on directly).
If Numerius were elected next Consul, I would be aiming to get through a full term by Christmas. :eyebrows:
Econ21 – please can you update the Library with the current world maps and Who’s-Who with what legion etc?
Seems quite out of date for those stats and it’ll be helpful for me so I know who to PM about the current Senate stuff.
- BTW, anyone want a civil war as I "think" I may have started one :help:
:oops: :laugh4:
I will update the FAQ table tonight.
- BTW, anyone want a civil war as I "think" I may have started one
I think the out of character vote is partly to decide this. If people want closure now, we have a causus belli. If they want to play on, the current divisions could be allowed to grow and fester for a while.
Both occurances work for me. Both will be just as interesting as well, thanks Econ21
Econ21 – please can you update the Library with the current world maps and Who’s-Who with what legion etc?
I will update the Library when the current Consul term is over. It's not my fault it has taken 5-6 times as long as other terms!
Mount Suribachi
11-28-2006, 14:12
In some ways the game is set up nicely to finish with the Consulship of Servius - however it might end, acquital/impeachment/exile/suicide/civil war.
However, I think one more reign would leave the game in a satisfactory state - Iberia, Selecia and Ptolomy would all be crushed in 5 years time. And I think having Numerius/econ21 finish it off would be not only a nice bookend, plus he also plays really quick ~;)
Also, for selfish reasons, I don't have MTW2 yet and I would like to play a few more battles in this game (I haven't had many ~:( )
TinCow – ok, I’ll check the latest save file tonight for info I need.
End-Game : Well, I’ve voted for and would prefer if the game went as far as it possibly can. I firmly believe that we may end the game “naturally” at some point in the near future and several of the suggestions (including the Civil War scenario) are very appealing and allow us to evolve the game to these ends.
I've really taken that long? Oh, wow...sorry. It didn't seem like it at all.
Anyway. Servius's actions would be determined by the actions of the senate.
Personally, I think the civil war aspect is interesting, but so is the thought of Servius actually surviving into old age more safely. :laugh4:
This is up to the senate.
EDIT - Started the LAST TURN of my consulship today.
I've updated the FAQ table except I need to know who Wonderland is. Is he taking Quintus Naevius from Shadeswolf?
Also, FLYdude - when I sent everyone the heads-up about the vote, yours bounced back because your PM box was full.
Hey econ, sorry about not announcing who I was picking sooner. I'm gonna' go with Galerius Vatinius, who as you may recall made quite a ruckus on the hallowed senate floors some years ago. I think it's only fitting I take him up again at this end-game juncture. Not a lot of influence to weight down my votes, but meh. It seems like the right things to do.
Quick question:
Which is the newest Save file and is Decius Curtius (my old avatar) still alive?
Which is the newest Save file and is Decius Curtius (my old avatar) still alive?
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/251-win-naevius.zip
Yes, he's still alive - a sprightly 61 year old, hiding in the desert, checking out the Carthaginian defences of Tingi for Oppius Aemilius. (When he's not addressing the Senate.)
A quick word about the results of the out of character poll about when to end the PBM: it seems that opinions were very evenly divided on this. On reflection, we've probably missed a trick in not ending it around now, as we had such a good causus belli. (Kudos to Lucjan and TinCow for providing that opportunity. :bow:) But I think the votes - impeachment and out of character - show that we were not quite ready for that, either out of character or in-character. I know I was not. Now if only Cnaius had stabbed Servius, now THAT would have been a causus belli. (Now I know why Servius tends to speak through an intermediary.)
What I think we should do is play on, heading for another full term. But if another "Servius impeachment" type issue comes up, we should be flexible and end it sooner if appropriate.
I would honestly be interested in seeing this continue for another full term, but my involvement would be limited due to the test run with the M2 pbem.
EDIT - And yes, Servius might be brazen and at times outright defiant, but he's not stupid. ~;)
Econ21 – thanks for those details. See, I can make use of my old Avatar…..Decius is not dead! Yay!
(who’d have thought he’d live this long??)
As for the ending :
We need a true megalomaniac as a Consul, one that starts of really well and seemingly tempered but then gradually chips away at the constitution as well as giving false reports to the Senate and such.
I ought to take the opportunity to run for Consul next session myself, though the task appears quite daunting for someone with lots of real-life work to do.
I’ll see about commitments before putting my manifesto together. Pretty sure I can do a “Nero” on you all.
Death the destroyer of worlds
11-30-2006, 11:15
That's a pretty good description of Servius's rule :laugh4:
That's a pretty good description of Servius's rule.
Yes, I think if people want this PBM to go out with a literal bang - a civil war - now is the time to do it. I was planning to concoct something along those lines in 10-20 turns but now I fear anything we could come up with would just look forced and feeble compared to the opportunity for conflict that Servius has provided.
If things get sorted out peacefully, we may end this PBM after the next Consul in a more sedate fashion. Leave the Republic in good shape and sign off on a job well done.
I suggest we collectively play this crisis out in character and see what happens without worrying about the out of character ramifications. If it explodes, fine; if it passes over, fine.
Death the destroyer of worlds
11-30-2006, 12:58
I agree. If Manius sticks with Servius we will not be able to impeach him and our only recourse would necessarily be civil war. Let's do it now, Lucjan has created a perfect moment.
I agree about playing it out and seeing what happens. Role-playing has really developed this situation in a very interesting manner. Many thanks to Lucjan for keeping it interesting.
I'm still in favor of using a multiplayer battle to determine the results of a civil war, if one begins. Victors always write the history books in reality, so they should here too.
Manius voted FOR impeachment last time! It didn't pass.
He'll vote for it again....redemption for his friend.....but don't let this steer the way you "think" Manius will fall when the crunch comes.
Even if the Consul refuses to resign, even if he ignores the Impeachment....would Manius desert his friend to death against the rest of the Senate?
- not telling :laugh4: -
What I will say is that this extra "push" by the Consul could mean a better civil war as before he still had too much support.
Oh and I certainly like the idea of a Multiplayer battle to decide the outcome.
On the mechanics of a Civil War, if it comes to that, I propose this: I will takeover the savegame (yes, I confess, I've been dying to my paws on that baby again).
Generals (Upper and Lower House) will declare for one side or the other (or play an ambiguous role like the Stanley brothers at Bosworth Field :eyebrows:) And I will move the Lower House general's armies (with suitable local reinforcements), towards each other or Rome as directed.
When armies meet, we will either fight out multiplayer battles or, if that is a problem for some participants, I will find some way of representing the outcomes in custom battles against the AI. (e.g. higher command general gets to fight against the AI; or I set up an AI vs AI battle like I did with Publius and the ford).
All the while, the real enemies of Rome - the Iberians, successors, Carthies etc will not be dormant.
The Civil War will end when all enemies are dead or have surrendered. But whoever controls Italy will have a big edge, as it is pretty much the only place where troops can be built. I will treat it as a demilitarised zone initially, in accordance with FLYdude's motion. Until they occupy the troop building settlements, the only troops generals will be able to get will be mercenaries and men from neighbouring garrisons (I will test their allegiance based on the proximity and relative influence of Senators).
The more I think about this, the more I think this is the way to end the PBM.
Anyone seen Kingdom of Heaven?
Guy de Lusignan: - - Give me a war.
Reynald: - - - - - - - That is what I do.
:duel:
I don't have much to add, just thought I would say that econ's suggestions sound good, and I agree that Servius has done a remarkable job keeping things unstable! :yes: It would seem a bit odd to have the issue come up again in some other form when the moment is ripe now.
Civil War mechanics – generally agree with your idea’s there Econ21. I assume you’ll be taking instruction about who want’s their forces moved where from either the avatars’ owner or a designated leader of the “faction”.
Personally I’m thinking that the Senate (loyalists) would elect a new Consul who would direct the Senate forces, whilst there would be Servius’s (new Republicans) being directed by Lucjan.
I would think that we should steer away from any battles that are not fully player controlled.
That leads me to the next point – Multiplayer. As I’ve stated before I’ve never played a multiplayer game with the Total War series but I’m happy to go through whatever needs to be done to enable this BUT…..
………..is our RTR version Multiplayer combatable and stable as that?
As for Italy – perhaps realism will have to take a back place in this as you suggest, would be good to have Lucjan’s forces perhaps up against it with limited Roman armies and relying on local forces more than the Republican forces but I can see that the Republican forces could swiftly overwhelm Lucjan’s forces.
However, the Republican forces would be still charged with the general security of Italy so would have to keep pumping forces out against Thrace and Iberia whilst Nu-Republican forces wouldn’t have to worry about that so it’s possible that, that factor could even up the opposing sides naturally.
Of course, not only this but IF Servius does not release his status he gets a few turns to re-enforce before it all blows up in his face anyway.
Considering that the casualty figures will be very high indeed for the battles (we’re not talking AI here), the whole thing could be swung pretty soon.
Edit – Oh, just a shame this isn’t Medieval and you can send out assassins against your own Avatars……I can see Manius, army broken, his few remaining men traipsing through North Africa and one night the assassin comes….. (would be the perfect “Roman” tool to use against individuals who survive once their armies have died)
You guys wanted a bang, so there you have it. An accidental civil war. Now where will all the chips really fall? ~:)
This is going to get really interesting.
Gonna stir things up more myself now!
On the mechanics of the civil war - due to work commitments, my big chance to do something are weekends (hence the proposed accelerated pace with the vote). It would be good if Lower House senators could have a look at the latest save and see what they would like their generals to do, then PM me on Friday night with some general directions (e.g. "march on Rome" or "kill Servius") and any queries on mechanics.
For the purposes of the Civil War, I am going to work from the last savegame in the uploader - after Tiberius's victory over the Thracians:
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/250-spr-Tib2.zip
I think this starting point is quite suitable, as it was news of Tiberius's victory that started the latest wave of activity in the Deliberations thread.
I don't really want to open it up to micromanagement ("go to (x,y), recruit z mercenaries" etc) as that will take us past Christmas to play out. Loading up the savegame, you realise how vast this PBM has become and just playing out a full turn will take a long time. And it will take many turns for generals in Afrika or Asia Minor to reach Rome. I may autoresolve some tangential battles with the AI, even if they involve Lower House Generals.
My preference is to keep the mechanics (and indeed, players' orders) hidden under the hood of PMs rather than out in the open in this thread, so as to increase the immersion. My preference is to play out the war as a sort of "simulation", based on the players' allegiances, strengths and decisions, rather than as an artificially balanced multiplayer contest. But I will be fair to both sides and make sure it is not too easy a contest for whichever side wins.
Ideally, I'd like to play enough over the weekend so that I can stop with a decent sized multiplayer battle set up for Monday. If it is very decisive, then that might just end the war. If it is only a small affair - with multiple rival armies still on the go - the war might last for a week or longer.
EDIT: It strikes me that the "Deliberations thread" may be a little redundant when war breaks out, but people may like to give their characters a voice in the war and perhaps a nice exit story line. So I have set up an in-character "Civil War stories" thread that people can use for that.
For example, I am sure a lot of people would like to know what is going on in Servius's mind. And the Manius/Decius Curtius story begs out for a continuation. Numerius and Manius also have some squaring off to do in Asia Minor etc. If people have some really good in character PM exchanges they want to share in due course, they could also go in the thread.
Must…..resist……urge….to….send….orders….now….
(really ought to wait until Lucjan contacts me on PM)
PS – the additional story thread is an excellent idea……I did plan to do several pieces about the Decius/Manius relationship & Servius/Manius relationship (from Manius’s point of view only).
As for the whole “regret” thing about Manius vs Numerius…..wow!
GeneralHankerchief
11-30-2006, 23:31
Just a thought about battles:
A way that battles are resolved on another RP forum that I used to freqent worked pretty well. I think it would transfer well here.
An impartial player moderates the battle. It is his job to draw/upload a map of the battle site (doesn't have to be in-depth). Based on the forces present, the two opposing sides "deploy" by drawing their forces on the map, and PMing the moderator with the battle plans. The moderator, after receiving both plans, then determines the outcome based on the strategies he was sent.
What do you guys think of this?
Mount Suribachi
11-30-2006, 23:49
I think your moderator would probly have got the Battle of Pharsalus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Pharsalus) wrong ~;)
Hmmm, MP battles. I guess we better start testing out our ability to play custom MP battles. Anyone here actually play MP? Perhaps we could have a MP thread here just so we can have a bit of a bash, play a few games against each other so we know what we're doing before we get to the Ouch Time proper?
As for your ideas Simon, I would be in favour of simplifying it based upon where the various generals are and the forces at their disposal. So for example you and Manius are the 2 rivals in Asia Minor, so you fight a MP battle to determine who controls that territory and start heading for Rome. That way we may get several minor battles before a final, decisive battle.
OR, just gather up the major characters and their armies and fight a 2v3 or 3v4 or whatever battle, winner takes all. Much more decisive, and perhaps more importantly, a nice hollywood epic ending :charge: Can you save replays of MP battles in RTW?
Ok, confession time. I have never played multiplayer Total War. And personally, I would not be sad if I never play multiplayer in my life. The idea of living without my pause key and getting the heck beaten out of me by another player is too mortifying for me to contemplate. Yes, I am a wimp. I like PBMs because they are all the things MP are not - slow, relaxing, cerebral, literary, historical, cooperative, role-playing, with economic, strategic and other campaign elements etc. So I would be loathe to throw all the uniquely PBMish stuff away at the end and just make this a simple MP contest.
But I recognise that MP battles are the most exciting way of resolving conflicts between players in the coming civil war, and I can't immediately think of another way of resolving clashes that is as transparent.
So what I've proposed is to play this civil war out in the manner of conventional PBM. It will be like I am taking a reign and writing up the progress in the usual (non-WoS) PBM way. The only difference will be that I will be fighting "myself" and moving the different armies against each other. That should give people the chance to make in character interventions, have some input in strategy and maybe spin off some interesting vignettes.
To make progress on the campaign map, I will try to hold off big battles for a while. That will give each side a chance to reach Rome, where they can hire more troops, and also make sure the battles are relatively fair fights between near full stacks (the idea of 3 or 4 way battles is a very nice one though, Mount :bow:).
When I come to such a big battle, I will report back (ETA Monday) and the two (or more) participants can agree a way of resolving it. MP would be the obvious way, but GeneralHankerchief's moderated battles would be another. A third possibility might be mirrored custom battles against the AI, where the general with the better victory over the AI was declared the winner. A fourth might be that I find a way for the AI to fight itself, so the balance of forces decided the matter (as with Publius at the ford).
Let's improvise and not worry too much about the mechanics - my focus is on creating a role-playing denouement that will be fun to participate in, rather than starting a whole new "multiplayer campaign" type genre of PBM.
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