Assyrians...a quiet damn shame for this disappearing minority

[kataphraktoi]

http://www.christiansofiraq.com/khinnisjune146.html

A damn shame to world heritage sites

And shame on the Kurdish regional government and their hypocrisy and demanding freedom while depriving others of it. :no:

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Unfortunately they have enough trouble protecting the living, without worrying about the dead.

I agree though, it is a real crime against humanity.

[Scurvy]

:shame:

[Vladimir]

What, because of their conversion they should be treated as special? Doesn't anyone remember what they were like? I was there mannn. :hippie:

[IrishArmenian]

Yes, in fact, m y neighbor is part Assyrian.

[Ignoramus]

That's shocking. People won't realise how valuable their history and culture is until it's gone.

[Samurai Waki]

maybe it will teach the Iraqis that the Great Sagas of the Past are gone forever, and instead of trying to regain their lost Caliphate, will look to a brighter future.

[Incongruous]

Again another sign of Allied incompotence when planning the invasion of Iraq.

[Vladimir]

Again another sign of Allied incompotence when planning the invasion of Iraq.

This disserves a hearty :rolleyes4: . Remember how they became a minority ?

[kataphraktoi]

Whats even stupid is that insurgents target Assyrian Christians on the assumption that because Americans are 'Christian', that the Assyrians support the "Crusade" of America...well it sounds logical only if the Assyrians are protected...but in this case, they are not and are under the "benevolent" protection of the Kurdish regional government entrusted to them by America...there goes their support.:wall:

[Radier]

Who cares? Us swedes are in minority in some cities here. Why don't you mourn for us? :sweatdrop: Soon we are in minority. It is called multicultural globalization and the left luuuves it.

[Idaho]

Radier is getting grumpy again. Come on now, back in your pram. Has anyone seen his pacifier?

[Vladimir]

How did you become a Senior Member? :inquisitive:

[Reverend Joe]

How did you become a Senior Member? :inquisitive:
1. He has been here for freakin' ever.

2. He is Duncan Idaho, a man from the future who has lived a thousand times over under the God-Emperor Leto II and the protection of the Bene Gesserit sisterhood and, having been also a Golem and a time-traveler, is deemed worthy of some added respect.

[Radier]

Radier is getting grumpy again. Come on now, back in your pram. Has anyone seen his pacifier?

I'm not grumpy. I'm happy. :laugh4: And excited. Electiontimes on Sunday... :balloon2:

But seriosly, ethnical Swedes will be in minority in some time. Not that I care that much, but what difference is it between Assyrians and Swedes in that case Idaho? They are five millions, diminishing? We are 8 millions, diminishing. Why do only they get the sad smile of sorrow when spoken about? Just curious.

[Dâriûsh]

Again another sign of Allied incompotence when planning the invasion of Iraq.

Many Iraqis still remember the role Assyrians played in British Iraq. And I’m sure the Assyrians remember the aftermath.

So I assume the Assyrians would rather avoid too obvious special treatment on behalf of the coalition.

[AntiochusIII]

But seriosly, ethnical Swedes will be in minority in some time. Not that I care that much, but what difference is it between Assyrians and Swedes in that case Idaho? They are five millions, diminishing? We are 8 millions, diminishing. Why do only they get the sad smile of sorrow when spoken about? Just curious.Because the Swedes aren't living their lives wondering when the Americans will be out and free-for-all genocide will begin? And their precious Gustavus Adolphus statues and Medieval citadels aren't being blown to pieces, perhaps?

[Tribesman]

Due to the widespread persecution of the Chaldean community and the ongoing ethnc cleansing in "free" Iraq we have no choice , a safe haven must be set up .
Perhaps we can give them the old one that the Kurds had since the good terrorists are reverting to their old bad terrorist ways and surely are no longer worthy of the free worlds support .
I know this may lead to problems down the line as the Assyrian seperatists make claims on land covering many other countries territories , but if we give them Northern Iraq they may be happy with that homeland . Plus it would put that part of the countries oil reserves into Christian hands which has to be a good thing ...right . :juggle2:

[kataphraktoi]

Many Iraqis still remember the role Assyrians played in British Iraq. And I’m sure the Assyrians remember the aftermath.

So I assume the Assyrians would rather avoid too obvious special treatment on behalf of the coalition.

THey're not asking for special treatment, they just wanted to be treated with decency and equality. Its a simple case of survival.

Sure, the Assyrians may have helped the Brits...but when you're a persecuted minority, you look for an avenue...in this case, they paid for it seriously.

Either way, minorities get it rough for trying to survive and being seen as a despised people.

[Idaho]

But seriosly, ethnical Swedes will be in minority in some time. Not that I care that much, but what difference is it between Assyrians and Swedes in that case Idaho? They are five millions, diminishing? We are 8 millions, diminishing. Why do only they get the sad smile of sorrow when spoken about? Just curious.
That's probably karmic justice for all those Vikings running around raping and slaughtering all those years ago.

Nothing stays the same long in this world Radier. Change can be unsettling,
and we can often be quick to grab at the negative, but there are positives too.

[Idaho]

How did you become a Senior Member? :inquisitive:
I don't know :laugh4:

I was once before, but repeated transgressions saw me stripped of the title.


(tips hat to Zorba)

[Dâriûsh]

THey're not asking for special treatment, they just wanted to be treated with decency and equality. Its a simple case of survival. The Assyrian Homeland movement sure is.


Either way, their treatment on behalf of the Kurds is shameful. But then again, the Kurds are the nicest guys* in Iraq, so what can one do?





*They’re not shooting at the Coalition for the most part.

[kataphraktoi]

The Assyrian Homeland movement sure is.

What special privileges will this actually bring? If survival is a special privilege I'm all for it!!


Either way, their treatment on behalf of the Kurds is shameful. But then again, the Kurds are the nicest guys* in Iraq, so what can one do?

One of my friends is a Kurd, his father works for the government of Iraq but he's not a member of the Kurdish regional government, rather, he plays an ambassadorial role in Dubai (lucky!!). He's a pretty good chap, known since he was a 13. He use to live with Christian neighbours in Baghdad.

[LeftEyeNine]

I should stay away..Yes yes..I'll only read along..

[Tribesman]

He use to live with Christian neighbours in Baghdad.

I wonder what happened to his old Christian neighbours in Baghdad ?
Since it is not only the Kurdish areas that they are being cleansed from .

I should stay away..Yes yes..I'll only read along..

Why is that LEN ?
Do you have a problem with Assyrian seperatists as well as Kurdish seperatists?

[Dâriûsh]

What special privileges will this actually bring? If survival is a special privilege I'm all for it!!

If the Iraqi Assyrians were granted their own land it would be Au Revoir Iraq. But whether that is for the best... who knows?

[Leet Eriksson]

Might as well start ceding land to every minroity, that oughta solve alot of problems :idea2:

[Dâriûsh]

Does the UAE have roome for ten million Balochs? ~;p

[Tribesman]

Does the UAE have roome for ten million Balochs?
No need for that , instead send them to pakistan where they are fighting for their own homeland :juggle2:

[Leet Eriksson]

Does the UAE have roome for ten million Balochs? ~;p

I forgot to put a /sarcasm tag ~;p

[kataphraktoi]

I wonder what happened to his old Christian neighbours in Baghdad ?
Since it is not only the Kurdish areas that they are being cleansed from .


Can't quite remember my sources on this, big apologies Tribesman, but a considerable proportion of Iraqi refugees (estimated at 30%) are from the Christian minority. I assumed they would have fled years ago as what my Kurdish friend told me was his life in Baghdad 8-10 or so years ago.


Why is that LEN ?
Do you have a problem with Assyrian seperatists as well as Kurdish seperatists?

I think its because I interwhined the Assyrian issue with the Turkish government on the subject on genocitde ages and ages ago...but I could be wrong.


If the Iraqi Assyrians were granted their own land it would be Au Revoir Iraq. But whether that is for the best... who knows?

Well, the Assyrians are certainly not enjoying the best part of their lives in their homeland thats for sure in the past, present and the grim future. COnsidering that the Assyrian homeland predated the state of Iraq, predated the Iranian empires and the Islamic period, the Assyrian homeland wasn't really part of Iraq, it was a homeland under foreign domination. SO giving it independence from Iraq is not an attempt to destroy Iraq but recognising the fact that the "idea" of Iraq has been forced on the Assyrian homeland.

However, the idea of a homeland becomes more entangled and complex as the Assyrian homeland is also claimed by Kurds. Their claims overlap in Northern Iraq which may explain the deliberate demographic engineering initiated by the Kurdish regional government.

WHo knows. Homeland or no homeland, if the Assyrians can be protected in Iraq and overseas its better to have them living than dead.

Lol ceding lands to minorities is an interesting idea, pity claims overlap ^ ^ mehehe

[Leet Eriksson]

How amusing.. a bit offtopic, but an assyrian came visiting today, hes my brothers friend who works for the local ISP.

He did confirm my worries about the kurdish governments impartiality, but they provide the assyrians safety and security i guess.

[L'Impresario]

Well, the Assyrians are certainly not enjoying the best part of their lives in their homeland thats for sure in the past, present and the grim future. COnsidering that the Assyrian homeland predated the state of Iraq, predated the Iranian empires and the Islamic period, the Assyrian homeland wasn't really part of Iraq, it was a homeland under foreign domination. SO giving it independence from Iraq is not an attempt to destroy Iraq but recognising the fact that the "idea" of Iraq has been forced on the Assyrian homeland.

Just want to make a small observation regarding a small logical leap in the above sentences: you are assuming here that the Assyrians of today are related to the historical ones, and thus they 're able to boast significant claims. I'd say that their claim is not supported by their hypothetical linage, but by the fact that they constitute a sizeable minority which developed a relatively recent national conscience and thus deserve to retain any rights pertaining to a minority. Independence isn't that easy for minorities to pursue nowdays, as the international political environment doesn't favour such moves unless there's an absolute necessity. If there is chance of a compromise between the majority and the rest of the ethnic groups, then it's always preferable to the alternative. The means to create conditions that promote border stability are not always there though.

[kataphraktoi]

The link between Assyrians and ancient Assyrians is not an assumption, it is a result of preserving one's own identity before the advent of nationalism. Religion can have this effect on one's identity in that an ethnicity is strongly aligned with religion and culture. So it is with the Assyrians. THeir uniquely Aramaic language is not a product of recent national awakening but an ancient and well preserved language in their scriptures and other pieces of literature. Their religion (Chaldean Uniate or Church of the East) gives them an additional buffer in preserving their identity against assimilation into an Arab identity and Muslim society especially when Arabic became dominant under Abd Al Malik of the Ummayads.

I'm not actually supporting independence, I'm more concerned with the demographic depopulation of traditional Assyrian regions in Northern Iraq.

[L'Impresario]

The link between Assyrians and ancient Assyrians is not an assumption, it is a result of preserving one's own identity before the advent of nationalism. Religion can have this effect on one's identity in that an ethnicity is strongly aligned with religion and culture. So it is with the Assyrians. THeir uniquely Aramaic language is not a product of recent national awakening but an ancient and well preserved language in their scriptures and other pieces of literature. Their religion (Chaldean Uniate or Church of the East) gives them an additional buffer in preserving their identity against assimilation into an Arab identity and Muslim society especially when Arabic became dominant under Abd Al Malik of the Ummayads.

Not really. It's one thing developing an identity based on religion and another claiming that you are an ethnic Assyrian, related to the empire of over 25 centuries ago. There are other Christian groups in the region anyway, and Chaldeans don't necessarily like to be classified under the "Assyrian" denomination. The modern Assyrian language dosn't even fall under the Akkadian ones.

[LeftEyeNine]

Nah, nothing about Assyrian stuff whatever happened. I see genocides get implemented easily when there is a Turkish part in it. And I use my right to stay off such provocations rather than heplessly trying to tell people something.

One believes what he wants to believe after all.