View Full Version : Scots
Azog 150
09-12-2006, 21:10
Does anyone have any info on the scots? Such as units, what the skins will be like and if they will be playable in campaign? If they all wear kilts ill scream.
Yes they will be playable.
Other then that we don't know that much about them, we have seen some screens of them.
And you can be sure that they will probably wear kilts.
And you can be sure that they will probably wear kilts.
TB66, I think you just want to hear Azog scream.
Guillaume le Batard
09-12-2006, 21:40
Azog,
One of the 3D units at totalwar.com is a Scottish unit, the "Scots Guard" I believe they're called (a.k.a. les "Compagnie des Gendarmes Ecossois”).
Without seeing all the units, however, no-one can say whether any units will be seen wearing kilts. Despite the reported historical inaccuracy of such dress in a medieval setting, I wouldn't be shocked to see them on a highlander unit or two :no:.
Here's hoping they leave the kilts at home!
Guillaume
Guillaume le Batard
09-12-2006, 21:43
Oh wait, Azog, I'm very tired and completely wrong. :wall: The unit described above is a French unit comprised of Scots.
Sorry for the double post, I still haven't earned the right to edit my posts.
Guillaume
Azog 150
09-12-2006, 22:00
:furious3: :furious3: :furious3: :furious3: :furious3: :furious3: :furious3:
Bum, well it was to be expected i suppose. My media 9 thing needs to be installed again, so no unit profiles for me :no:
Oh well, im off to bed, night all
TB66, I think you just want to hear Azog scream.
:laugh4: No, just prepared him for the worst.
The scots will certainly have access to feudal knights, as the feudal knight in the .coms unit prewiev is scottish.
Moreover it can be expected that they will have some sort of pikemen to represent the "long wooden pole" wielding infantry of the battle of bannockburn.
Its also very probable that they wil be set up with some kind of two-handed sword wielding infantry to depict claymores. that may not be too historicaly correct, as the claymore as far as I understand was a 1500-1700 weapon.
Apart from this it will probably be general catholic units, spearmen, archers etc.
Guillaume le Batard
09-20-2006, 14:41
I suspect that the Scots will have access to some sort of slightly upgraded unit at the game's start to help offset what will assumably be a challenging situation economically and militarily.
IIRC, in MTW1 (as rebels) they had "highlanders" in the early era, which actually made a bit of difference for them in battles against other early infantry types.
Just guessing they'll make an early re-appearance. What do you guys think?
Guillaume
P.S. I am not typically your "Total War Small Faction Fanatic" -- my handling of economics is way too poor, and I always grind it into the dust :help: -- but I am strangely looking forward to playing as Scotland!
agreed, the scots need some sort of equalizer if they are to hang tough with those imperialistic english bastards. the highlanders with "excellent attack" and fast movement would be good for that. however i think some sort of pike will be just as important in the equalizing role, as they will offset any english cavalry superiority. they are also, historically, the unit that secured scottish independence at the time.
I love playing small nations, nothing like making denmark an economical and military superpower through trading and small, elite housecarl armies.
speaking of denmark and england, i recently read that the english/welsh longbow originally stemmed from scandinavia. armored, axe-carrying viking longbowmen anyone?
IrishArmenian
09-20-2006, 15:14
I thot Kilt is a branch of some sort of Tunic-like clothing came over to Britain with the Romano-British. The Scots developed their own type, made of wool. Of course, the tartan is much more recent, dating I think to the early 17th century. So they could wear a wool tunic of some sort.
Guillaume le Batard
09-20-2006, 15:38
...however i think some sort of pike will be just as important in the equalizing role, as they will offset any english cavalry superiority. they are also, historically, the unit that secured scottish independence at the time.
Agreed on the equalizing role of pikes for the Scots (or anyone else for that matter!). I'm guessing that pikes won't be trainable until late in the game though, just as in MTW1.
speaking of denmark and england, i recently read that the english/welsh longbow originally stemmed from scandinavia. armored, axe-carrying viking longbowmen anyone?
A terrible sight, indeed! :skull:
Your post got me curious, so I did a little looking into the origins of what came to be known as the English Longbow. It seems (although I am *no* historian) long bows have been used in the British Isles for a very long time --they have found remains of neolithic long bows: http://webapp1.somerset.gov.uk/her/details.asp?prn=23805 in England. Of course that doesn't mean that there wasn't a Nordic tradition of their use, as well. They were reportedly used throughout history in Japan, Africa, and North America, as well.
Guillaume
Randarkmaan
09-20-2006, 16:30
Long bows were normal bows almost everywhere, the English just used it better, and had a special kind of arrow (bodkin).
Furious Mental
09-20-2006, 16:45
Supposedly, as far as Viking archery went, Norway is where it was at. Apparently Norwegians used longbows of composite construction (iron and wood). Most of the Vikings active in England were of course Danes but there were significant numbers of Norwegians too. Whether or not they catalysed the widespread use of the longbow amongst English I don't know. As far as I know it was after contact with the Welsh that the English took to archery.
The Viking longbow didn't use a iron-wood composite construction, it just made use out of natural difference between the core and the mantlewood of the yew employing each were it's strenghts are
, as all european bowmakers since thousends of years...
However iron might have been use sometimes, IIRC to strenghen the sinew-wood connection. A clear sign of a Viking's bow were also the strongly backcurved tips.
Agreed on the equalizing role of pikes for the Scots (or anyone else for that matter!). I'm guessing that pikes won't be trainable until late in the game though, just as in MTW1.
A terrible sight, indeed! :skull:
Your post got me curious, so I did a little looking into the origins of what came to be known as the English Longbow. It seems (although I am *no* historian) long bows have been used in the British Isles for a very long time --they have found remains of neolithic long bows: http://webapp1.somerset.gov.uk/her/details.asp?prn=23805 in England. Of course that doesn't mean that there wasn't a Nordic tradition of their use, as well. They were reportedly used throughout history in Japan, Africa, and North America, as well.
Guillaume
As far as the Scots are concerned pikes should not come too late in the game. The Scots were using the schiltron formation in the late 13th century, more than 200 years before the period represented in MTW2 ends (mid 1500s). Flemish militia also used pikes versus the French at the battle of Courtrai (aka the Battle of Golden Spurs) which took place in 1302.
As far as the Scots are concerned pikes should not come too late in the game. The Scots were using the schiltron formation in the late 13th century, more than 200 years before the period represented in MTW2 ends (mid 1500s). Flemish militia also used pikes versus the French at the battle of Courtrai (aka the Battle of Golden Spurs) which took place in 1302.
VLAANDEREN DEN LEEUW!!!!!
a.k.a Flanders,the lion !!!!! :P
(=the flemish'warcry)
VLAANDEREN DEN LEEUW!!!!!
Uh... gesundheit? :help: :dizzy2: :inquisitive:
LMAO! Just kidding... :thumbsup:
Uh... gesundheit? :help: :dizzy2: :inquisitive:
LMAO! Just kidding... :thumbsup:
DON'T confuse the Flemish with the Germans! Looks like all Americans have trouble with it,so here,to point it out again :
FLANDERS IS NOT DEUTSCHLAND
(not that I have anything against germans)
Aye It's The Netherlands, Isn't it? ;)
Aye It's The Netherlands, Isn't it? ;)
hehe don't mock me :( :P
Flanders=belgium
K pest je maar wat =P
All good, all good
K pest je maar wat =P
All good, all good
Doesn't matter,at least I have the admins on whose shoulders I can cry ^^ =P
DON'T confuse the Flemish with the Germans! Looks like all Americans have trouble with it,so here,to point it out again :
FLANDERS IS NOT DEUTSCHLAND
(not that I have anything against germans)
:dizzy2:
C'mon now... I KNOW Flanders is not Germany. I KNOW gesundheit is German for bless you! Had I simply written 'bless you' or maybe even 'yassou' (a word heard and used frequently throughout my life) I think the intended effect to illicit a laugh might have been lost. I also happen to LIKE the word gesundheit!
Now that this thread is threatening to careen off the tracks and smash into oncoming traffic I wonder how strongly your average Scot would object to being confused with a person of the Flemish persuasion?!? :inquisitive:
I hear that "Highland Caber Throwers" (fabulously kilted and be-sporraned of course) are on the menu this time round, with a special 'eat haggis' ability that enables them to throw a super large caber once per battle. Very useful when dealing with those cannon elephants...
someone made the point that the difference was all in the english/welsh use of massed "shower" fire from longbows, and that the longbow as such wasnt unique to the british isles: good point.
regarding my previous claim of the longbows scandinavian roots, you should google longbow, scandinavian and vikings, its interesting reading.
Sun of Chersonesos
09-21-2006, 17:03
apparently the scots guard will be the best archers in the game
Azog 150
09-21-2006, 17:18
They are a french unit
AussieGiant
09-21-2006, 18:50
apparently the scots guard will be the best archers in the game
Where did you hear that?
Peasant Phill
09-22-2006, 14:30
Look at the unit description on the .com. The Scots guard is French, although, naturally Scotland should have access to.
AussieGiant
09-22-2006, 15:37
This is the description:
The “Compagnie des Gendarmes Ecossois”, better known as the French Scots Guard, are a great example of the term “the enemy of my enemy is my ally” since their shared enmity to England has given the Scots and the French common cause. These Scottish troops are elite heavily armoured longbowmen and form part of the French King's retinue.
Where does it say they are the best archers in the game?
There are more than likely going to be multiple elite archer units in the game.
Orda Khan
09-22-2006, 16:02
I still can't understand why the Scots are playable at all
........Orda
L'Impresario
09-22-2006, 16:21
Two words: Mel Gibson.
Furious Mental
09-22-2006, 16:42
Personally I think that CA has figured that alot of English people will play MTW 2 and that these English people will play as the English, and to make the game more interesting for said people they should give them at least one immediate challenge besides war with France. I guess it might also have something to do with the fact that Scottish people will buy the game but Scotland isn't very large.
Midnight
09-22-2006, 17:03
I wonder how many viable opening strategies there'll be as the Scots... blitz England (perhaps), take Britain and Ireland a little slower, or maybe boat across to Denmark (after grabbing any rebel territories)?
Antagonist
09-22-2006, 18:46
IIRC from early previews, the Scots unit roster is summarised as being a mixture of Norman-style, conventional feudal European "lowland" units and "dangerous but unreliable" Gaelic highlanders. As far as I know the basic highland/lowland distinction is fairly accurate, but the depictions of the highlanders especially are likely to be fancifully romantic and primitive, influenced by Braveheart etc.
I'd certainly like to see their unit list as I'd quite like to play as them, although I suppose there's a stronger argument for more Eastern or Islamic factions before things like Scotland. I hope they will be interesting though, especially the Gaelic units should make them less of a generic western European faction.
Antagonist
Bob the Insane
09-22-2006, 19:59
Well it will be fun in vanilla and it will give the modders something to play with (a la the Illyrians in RTR, formally the British faction)...
Being British I naturally think this is great, but I do understand the opinion that another Muslim or Orthodox (or even pagan) faction would have added more variety to the game. And RTR (and others) have shown how you can have very distinct regional rebels implying a distinct but small faction is present...
Well as I recall everyone and their mother complained that Scotland was not even included as a minor faction in MTW1. Add to the mix the number of modders who addressed the issue by making Scotland playable and the fact that CA eventually made the Scots into a playable faction in Viking Invasion and you can why CA decided to make them a playable faction in MTW2.
I get the feeling there are more Orgahs dismayed about the inclusion of the Aztecs at the expense of some other European or Asian faction of historical note (i.e. Aragon) than there are people disappointed about the inclusion of Scotland.
I really look forward to playing as Scotland for the same reasons as I enjoyed playing the minor factions in RTW (i.e. Armenia); it's incredibly fun to play a faction with its back against the wall and the odds stacked heavily against it.
I still can't understand why the Scots are playable at all
Two words: Mel Gibson.
For better or worse, L'Impresario is probably correct. Braveheart was a very popular movie, particularly over here in the U.S. (although I imagine it was in Scotland as well ~;)). It won a metric ton's worth of awards, including the 1995 Oscar for Best Picture.
While I'm fully aware it's about as historically accurate as The Last Samurai, it still remains a personal favorite of mine (it's easily in my top ten), as well as those of many of my friends. Quite a few people over here are also into Celtic culture in general, and I think that's at least somewhat reflected on this board.
So in essence, I'm saying if you're upset that the Scots are a playable faction, you can probably blame us Americans. ~;p What can I say? We're in love with the Scots!
Well as I recall everyone and their mother complained that Scotland was not even included as a minor faction in MTW1. Add to the mix the number of modders who addressed the issue by making Scotland playable and the fact that CA eventually made the Scots into a playable faction in Viking Invasion and you can why CA decided to make them a playable faction in MTW2.
Good point; I should've mentioned that as well. I can say with certainty that the Scots were sorely missed by my friends that formed our little MTW group. ~:) We were very happy when Viking Invasion and (later on) VikingHorde's XL Mod allowed us to play as them!
I get the feeling there are more Orgahs dismayed about the inclusion of the Aztecs at the expense of some other European or Asian faction of historical note (i.e. Aragon) than there are people disappointed about the inclusion of Scotland.
I would certainly be one of those people! I was actually about to rant about that again, but I'll refrain....
I really look forward to playing as Scotland for the same reasons as I enjoyed playing the minor factions in RTW (i.e. Armenia); it's incredibly fun to play a faction with its back against the wall and the odds stacked heavily against it.
Exactly. Even in VI and XL, the Scots were a fun challenge, being pressed up against the English right from the start.
IrishArmenian
09-23-2006, 07:18
For better or worse, L'Impresario is probably correct. Braveheart was a very popular movie, particularly over here in the U.S. (although I imagine it was in Scotland as well ~;)). It won a metric ton's worth of awards, including the 1995 Oscar for Best Picture.
If I am correct, the Scots hated this movie. Mostly for Robert the Bruce seeming like a villen.
Orda Khan
09-23-2006, 18:05
Two words: Mel Gibson.
:laugh4:
I enjoyed that. I'm not upset that Scotland are in and an immediate challenge to the English makes sense. I just think that slot could have ventured outside of Europe
.......Orda
If I am correct, the Scots hated this movie. Mostly for Robert the Bruce seeming like a villen.
Off topic, but I thought Robert the Bruce was the most interesting character in the film (apart from Longshanks, I guess) and his turning coat the end was the emotional high of a generally pretty dodgy film. Plus, I think - unlike William Wallace - he was portrayed truthfully. Scottish politics has never been as simple as the Scottish Nationalist Party would have people believe.
Duke Malcolm
09-23-2006, 19:56
If I am correct, the Scots hated this movie. Mostly for Robert the Bruce seeming like a villen.
Not really, rather it bolstered the support for the Scottish Nationalist Party. Apart from the fact it is about Scotland beating the English, it is pants though.
Azog 150
09-23-2006, 21:50
I watch movies to enjoy them, not complain about how historically accurate it is. Braveheart was based on true events, but its wasnt called 'Braveheart, the historically accurate movie about the william wallace'
Sun of Chersonesos
09-23-2006, 21:51
Well to be honest i dont think that the scots will be very good in the long run, their archers are no beter than the english, and those feudal knights wont be much use for long since it doesn't utilise plate armour, its like celtic Byzantines
Antagonist
09-23-2006, 22:28
I'm pretty sure the Lowland Scots at least were generally equipped in much the same way as the English throughout this period. IIRC in the later Middle Ages they reformed their army to incorporate better armour (greater proliferation of mail for ordinary soldiers and plate for nobles) and adopted things like pikemen etc.
Antagonist
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