German government released convicted murderer, airplane highjacker

[Xiahou]

In June 1985, Hamadi was one of four Islamic militants who commandeered TWA Flight 847 — en route from Athens to Rome — and hijacked it to Beirut. The ensuing hostage ordeal lasted 17 days, with the plane shuttling among various Mediterranean airports.

On the second day of the hijacking, Hamadi and his accomplices learned that U.S. Navy diver Robert Dean Stethem was on board. Hamadi and his co-conspirators beat Stethem unconscious, then shot him to death and dumped his body on the tarmac of the Beirut airport. The hijackers later escaped.

In 1987, Hamadi was arrested in Frankfurt, Germany, for carrying explosives in his bag at the airport. He was convicted both on that charge and of Stethem's murder and sentenced to life in prison. Late last year he was paroled by the German authorities and deported to Lebanon.
....

Mohammed Ali Hamadi was released despite strong U.S. objections, FOX News learned. Those objections were raised in phone calls to German authorities by Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and FBI Director Robert Mueller, as well as by top-level State Department and administration counter-terrorism officials.

"[The Germans] ignored us and didn't give us enough time to pursue it through legal action," an official told FOX News on the condition of anonymity. "They gave us very short notice."

U.S. officials said they "can't rule out" the possibility that Germany deported Hamadi, after he had served 19 years of a life sentence, in exchange for the release of Susanne Osthoff, a German archeologist taken hostage in Iraq and freed four days after Hamadi's deportation. German authorities have denied any such deal was made.

Anyone want to shed some more light on this? On the surface, it seems an unlikely coincidence that a German citizen would be released just four days after they released a convicted terrorist. :no:

edit: link (http://www.myfoxal.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=863577&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.4.1)

[Crazed Rabbit]

Thanks a lot Germany.

Crazed Rabbit

[Papewaio]

More information.

For instance how long is life in Germany? Is it a maximum of 20 years. Therefore with good behaviour 19 years with deportation may be the norm.

If it is 40 years with no chance of early release then it would be a very curious coincidence. Far too curious.

[Ice]

Let's see, he hijacked a plane, beat, and shot to death a US Navy Diver on board. Yup, he definately deserves to be released.

[Crazed Rabbit]

More information.

For instance how long is life in Germany? Is it a maximum of 20 years. Therefore with good behaviour 19 years with deportation may be the norm.

If it is 40 years with no chance of early release then it would be a very curious coincidence. Far too curious.

Now to me, a 'life' sentence means the guy is in there for the extent of his life. Of course, I'm American, and I know the prison system works a bit different in Europe, in that they hate to actually give criminals the full term.

Crazed Rabbit

[Ser Clegane]

For instance how long is life in Germany?

"Life sentence" in Germany means on average 17-19 years in jail, minimum is 15 years

[Sir Moody]

in which case he did serve the normal life sentance and theres nothing that could have been done - he served his time

[Xiahou]

"Life sentence" in Germany means on average 17-19 years in jail, minimum is 15 yearsSo by their definition, the average person lives for about 5 lives? :dizzy2:


in which case he did serve the normal life sentance and theres nothing that could have been done - he served his timeThey could've extradited him to the US where he was still wanted for crimes.

Here's an interesting tidbit from wikipedia one "life imprisonment":
In Germany, the minimum time to be served for a sentence of life imprisonment is 15 years, after which the prisoner can apply for parole. Until 1981, life imprisonment in Germany meant that a person sentenced to this had, if there was no mercy granted, to spend the rest of his life in prison. But in 1977 the German Federal Constitutional Court ruled that such a sentence is cruel and violates the German constitution. So, four years later, the Geman parliament introduced the possibility of parole after at least 15 years. If the verdict in the original trial includes an explicit finding of "exceptional severity of guilt" (in German: Besondere Schwere der Schuld), then the possibility of parole after 15 years is barred and the prisoner can apply for the first time significantly later, although there is no time fixed by law how much later this may be. After about 10 years of imprisonment, a specialised chamber (technical term in German: Strafvollstreckungskammer) of the criminal court which is responsible for the case sets a recommended minimum term to be served depending on the individual characteristics of the crime, in other words, a minimum time which is deemed just and appropriate for the severity of the crime. Release of a prisoner on parole requires (1) that this minimum time is served and (2) that a psychological expert opinion predicts no further danger from this prisoner and a positive social prognosis. In practice, a finding of "exceptional severity of guilt" drastically increases the time before parole is granted. The average time served for a life sentence in Germany is around 17 - 19 years, and with a finding of "exceptional severity of guilt" it increases to 23 - 25 years. The time a person serving a life sentence has to remain in jail also may depend on the state in which the person is serving the sentence. In the southern, rather conservative, states like Bavaria or Baden-Württemberg the time is significantly longer than in other German states. Around 20% of all people serving life imprisonment stay in prison until their natural death. In cases where the convict is found to pose a clear and present danger to society, the sentence can include a provision for "preventive detention" (in German: Sicherungsverwahrung) after the actual sentence. This is not considered a punishment but a protection of the public. The preventive detention is prolonged every two years until it is found that the convict is unlikely to commit further crimes. Preventive detention may last for longer than 10 years only in exceptional cases.

Based on the above, it sounds like he got off very lightly indeed. His crimes were quite severe, and he was obviously a threat since he's already gone back and joined up with his terrorist group again. Sorta smells like a hostage deal to me.

[Fragony]

He probably promised that for the time being he will never do it again.

[Ser Clegane]

They could've extradited him to the US where he was still wanted for crimes
Actually when Hamadi was released the US did not even ask for that (although this might have been because it already had been denied when he was captured)

[Kralizec]

Now to me, a 'life' sentence means the guy is in there for the extent of his life. Of course, I'm American, and I know the prison system works a bit different in Europe, in that they hate to actually give criminals the full term.

Crazed Rabbit

There's about 60 persons currently living out a life long sentence in the Netherlands, though I don't know any stats how many of them would be prematurely released I don't think it's many considering our current political climate.

[Fragony]

I don't know any stats how many of them would be prematurely released I don't think it's many considering our current political climate.

Well here is one,

http://www.telegraaf.nl/multimedia/archive/01383/volkert_van_der_g__1383201c.jpg

Next year I believe, must have been doing someone a favor.

[yesdachi]

So in retaliation for this offence should we release some of the criminals we have that Germany would like to have, we have tons I would assume there are a few Germany wants.

A 20 year “life” sentence is kind of a joke.

[Geoffrey S]

Well here is one,

http://www.telegraaf.nl/multimedia/archive/01383/volkert_van_der_g__1383201c.jpg

Next year I believe, must have been doing someone a favor.
He's what?! Completely missed that, if anyone deserves a full life sentence that chap should get the full load, with extra slippery soap.

[monkian]

Whos the Hitler Youth poster boy ?

[Fragony]

Whos the Hitler Youth poster boy ?

He would say he killed Hitler :laugh4:

http://www.anno.nl/sites/anno/contents/i000940/pim-fortuyn-445.jpg

[Ser Clegane]

Whos the Hitler Youth poster boy ?
My thoughts exactly - this guy looks quite creepy...

[Scurvy]

Whos the Hitler Youth poster boy ?

very very very creepy, :2thumbsup:

[Fragony]

very very very creepy, :2thumbsup:

Oh he sure is, he and his club. Churchill said it all, tommorows fascists will call themselves anti-fascists.

[Mithrandir]

He killed Pim Fortuyn, a right wing politician which can be seen on the larger picture posted by fragony.He was quite an extravert person and his death brought a shock to the Netherlands.

[Geoffrey S]

Yep, Volkert van der Graaf, cold-blooded political murderer. Although I disagreed with Fortuyn's politcal views (quite strongly on a number of issues, though time has proven a number correct) and would not have wanted him as prime minister (let alone his party members in cabinet!), his murder was an evil act that distorted the political process and cannot be justified; releasing that murderer at any point during his sentence makes a mockery of what is called democracy here, akin to giving Saddam a pat on the back and letting him walk. I mean, the bastard walked right up to Fortuyn and blew his brains all over Hilversum because he disagreed with his politics, and then ran off, and then they let him go?

Before I rant anymore, Fragony, it's definite Volkert will be released that soon?

[Fragony]

Before I rant anymore, Fragony, it's definite Volkert will be released that soon?

No, and I wasn't correct when I said next year, 2010 at earliest, my bad. But it seems Fortuyn was a case of oops I did it again, there is some evidence that he has been very naughty before. I still think he was aivd.