New 3d unit: Coyote Priest

[TB666]

http://www.totalwar.com/index.html?page=/en/medieval2/gameinfo/units/index.html&nav=/en/medieval2/1/2/
Another fine looking unit by CA. :2thumbsup:

[The_Doctor]

I wish I had pyjamas like that.:laugh4:

[Silver Rusher]

I shuddered when I saw the word 'priest', but now that I see it it does look alright.

[Byzantine Emperor]

I wish I had pyjamas like that.:laugh4:

They look itchy though... :laugh4:

I am not sure about historical accuracy, but they look fine. :2thumbsup:

[Orb]

I wish I had pyjamas like that.:laugh4:

You aren't the only one, mate :balloon2:

[professorspatula]

If they looked like that, I'm surprised the European armies didn't fall about laughing at the sight of them, then promptly get beaten to death with those wooden fly-swats or sticks, or clubs, whatever that thing he is holding.

[CaesarAugustus]

It looks.......interesting. Is its "costume" historically accurate? or is it like the arcani from rtw?

[TB666]

It looks.......interesting. Is its "costume" historically accurate? or is it like the arcani from rtw?
It is accurate.

[Woozie]

If they looked like that, I'm surprised the European armies didn't fall about laughing at the sight of them, then promptly get beaten to death with those wooden fly-swats or sticks, or clubs, whatever that thing he is holding.

Obsidian blades were pretty damn sharp actually.

They have been rumoured to be able to cut horses heads off but who knows about that one. Even if it was a club I wouldn't want to get hit by it that's for sure.

[cutepuppy]

If they looked like that, I'm surprised the European armies didn't fall about laughing at the sight of them, then promptly get beaten to death with those wooden fly-swats or sticks, or clubs, whatever that thing he is holding.

uniforms of spanish tercio soldiers or german landsknechts weren't less ridiculous (to our modern standards).

[The_Doctor]

Looking around the internet, it would seem that there where some kind of coyote warriors.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Well the Coyote thing is definitely accurate, not sure about Coyote Priests though, I think they were just warriors.

[CrackerJap]

Obsidian blades were pretty damn sharp actually.

They have been rumoured to be able to cut horses heads off but who knows about that one. Even if it was a club I wouldn't want to get hit by it that's for sure.

Obsidian is ridiculously sharp, because it lacks a crystal structure the edges can get to a molecular thinness. Until recently they were commonly used as surgical blades, and infact the only type of scalpel more precise is a laser. The Aztecs were even able to perform primitive brain surgery using blades fashioned out of obsidian. So I guess what my point (no pun intended) is that with a lot of sharpened obsidian rocks fastened to the side of a wooden club it would be just as sharp as any European metal sword and hypothetically a big burly Aztec might've been able to decapitate a horse with it.

PS- I'm new and I'm looking forward to contributing every once in a while :)

[The_Doctor]

Welcome to the Org, CrackerJap.:balloon2:

[professorspatula]

The Aztecs were even able to perform primitive brain surgery using blades fashioned out of obsidian. :)

I hope they were more successful than those other primitive pioneers of brain surgery - the chimpanzees from the Planet of the Apes. They never really did master that lobotomy thing.

[Beelzebub]

lol, what a dumb civilization

[Randarkmaan]

*REMOVED* by myself

[econ21]

lol, what a dumb civilization

Don't make me have to post a "no Aztec bashing" stickie.

[t1master]

looks like a fraternity hazing ritual costume...

it's a big paddle that says Fah Q

:balloon2:

[Kourutsu]

Ehhh...He looks like a pinata. I mean, just look at the hood!

[Woozie]

Obsidian is ridiculously sharp, because it lacks a crystal structure the edges can get to a molecular thinness. Until recently they were commonly used as surgical blades, and infact the only type of scalpel more precise is a laser. The Aztecs were even able to perform primitive brain surgery using blades fashioned out of obsidian. So I guess what my point (no pun intended) is that with a lot of sharpened obsidian rocks fastened to the side of a wooden club it would be just as sharp as any European metal sword and hypothetically a big burly Aztec might've been able to decapitate a horse with it.

PS- I'm new and I'm looking forward to contributing every once in a while :)

Yeah, it's like the ancient spearheads, sharper than todays modern lasers can get them. Incredible stuff.

Only bad thing about Obsidian is that it dulls quicker than a blade.

As for Aztecs being a dumb civilization, barely, they were the biggest empire in Mexico at the time. The only reason the Spanish beat them is loads of smallpox and allies. Saying they were dumb is quite frankly ignorant.

As for the colours and regalia, I love it. It's what makes the Aztecs unique from the other factions. Ooh yay another European unit with plate armour, woop-dee-doo. The Aztecs have very interesting weapons and armour.

As for the pinatas comment, look at some of the European soldiers, they were way more flamboyant than Aztecs

[Myrddraal]

About the existance of coyote warriors and if they were 'priests'

I found this:

"One Aztec god was known as Coyotlinauatl who was honored in ceremonies in which the people dressed in coyote skins and held fiestas."

Here is a Coyote Warrior from a 16th century mural at the Augustinian monastery of Ixmiquilpan:
https://img220.imageshack.us/img220/783/ixm20coyoteox5.gif


As an interesting aside, he's a statue of an Eagle warrior I found:
https://img165.imageshack.us/img165/2981/aztec3jp6.jpg



Here's a interesting site, CA if you need inspiration check it out :wink:
http://www.balagan.org.uk/war/iberia/1492/mexico/painting_guide_aztec.htm

[Woozie]

Interesting link there Myddraal, thanks.

The Coyote Priest is pretty accurate with that mural.

[cegorach]

Cuauhtli (Eagle Warriors) were the core of the Aztec armies, I hope they will handle them right. Coyote Priest looks most likely as he should, good work !

BTW Some guys here are ignorant and apparently are proud of that - congratulations :wall:

[Ringeck]

Obsidian is ridiculously sharp, because it lacks a crystal structure the edges can get to a molecular thinness. Until recently they were commonly used as surgical blades, and infact the only type of scalpel more precise is a laser. The Aztecs were even able to perform primitive brain surgery using blades fashioned out of obsidian. So I guess what my point (no pun intended) is that with a lot of sharpened obsidian rocks fastened to the side of a wooden club it would be just as sharp as any European metal sword and hypothetically a big burly Aztec might've been able to decapitate a horse with it.

PS- I'm new and I'm looking forward to contributing every once in a while :)

Someone's been at wikipedia, I see :-)

Obsidian is a really interesting type of glass. Its hardness on the Mohs scale range between 5 M and 5.5 M, which just about makes it as hard as good steel (also 5 M to 5.5 M), and harder than regular iron (4 M-5 M). It has to be fashioned by knacking (that it, knocking small pieces off it with rocks). As you state, it can be sharpened to an extreme edge (although cutting the head off a horse, isn't really all that impressive - it has more to do with the angle of attack and the length of the cutting blade than with sharpness). After the spanish conquest it was adapted into use for tools which did not have to stand up to all that much punishment - i.e. which only cut flesh, as surgical blades, or hair, as shaving blades. The reason it was not later used for weapons is not only the time it takes to produce, i.e. its expense (although it is relatively rare, it is usully found in surface deposits, easily accessible, and can be formed fairly quickly by a good knacker), but the fact that it is relatively brittle (a long daggerblade of obsidian tends to break quickly) and dulls even more quickly - an obsidian weapon striking metal or rock will lose its fine edge and develop microcracking formations along the edges - this also makes it tricky to sharpen, as its combined hardness and brittleness works against the craftsman.

Macuahuitl were very sharp. They were restricted to cutting edges, though, were relatively top-heavy due to their blade-setting configuration, and dulled quickly. That were their main disadvantages compared to steel blades.

[Polemists]

I'm not sure the aztecs stand a chance though. I mean even if you have priests and warriors with swords. Even well made ones. I mean what use is that against a line of cannons, musketeer's and knights in gothic plate? I'll just say my money is not on the Aztecs, I think they'll be a push over at that late in the game. They may have alot of people, but then again so will you after few hundred years of accumlating power.


They look historically accurate but all i've seen is them mentioned as warriors, not as priests.

[Peasant Phill]

To balance it out, you as the occupying power will probably not be able to transport as many troops as you want to the 'new world'. So although tech wise you will be superior, you will be greatly outnumbered. I don't believe steamrolling the Aztecs will be an option.

[Orda Khan]

Is it possible to achieve victory without venturing to the 'New World'?

......Orda

[Peasant Phill]

I think it will be possible. Conquering the new world will probably give you a lot of money and maybe some other advantages as well, but money won't be a big problem anymore by that time (at least it was this way in previous TW games).

[Hobot]

First of, that unit looks cool as all hell, and the fact that it's mostly historical makes it even more amusing :laugh4:

As far as the new world goes, personally I never play my games for such a long number of turns as to get to such events. For example in RTW I think I hit the Marian reforms only during one campaign...and only then because that was my intention, I sat around bored for hours ending turns lol. I always hated to micromanage monstrous empires and to fight with elite armies of utterly disposable nature. Since even if I lost them I could just make a new one easily at that point. Which is exactly why I LOVED the Eras in MTW1. What I'm saying is, I really don't see myself ever reaching the point in the game where I will even acquire the new world technology, unless Eras are re-introduced.:no:

[Ringeck]

Is it possible to achieve victory without venturing to the 'New World'?

......Orda

Most victory conditions say: "hold 45 regions + Jerusalem region + (sometimes) Constantinople region, so I assume it is.

It would be rather silly to require the Turks to invade central america to achieve victory, after all.

[Orda Khan]

Only reason I ask is that I have no intention of going there

.......Orda

[CrackerJap]

I'm not sure the aztecs stand a chance though. I mean even if you have priests and warriors with swords. Even well made ones. I mean what use is that against a line of cannons, musketeer's and knights in gothic plate? I'll just say my money is not on the Aztecs, I think they'll be a push over at that late in the game. They may have alot of people, but then again so will you after few hundred years of accumlating power.


They look historically accurate but all i've seen is them mentioned as warriors, not as priests.

I doubt they'll have an impact in the game. In actual history though they were really only defeated by European diseases which they had no immunity to as well as the fact that the Spanish allied with local tribes who hated the Aztecs.

[Myrddraal]

They could easily implement the diseases. That would be cool...

The only reference I found to priests was that one about sacrifices made by men in coyote skins.

[BDC]

They could easily implement the diseases. That would be cool...

The only reference I found to priests was that one about sacrifices made by men in coyote skins.
I suppose another set of 'militia', 'peasants', 'bowmen', would be quite boring, so they went a little overboard on making the Aztecs look interesting...

[CrackerJap]

Theres not really much you can do with a civilization you don't know much about. The Spanish did a pretty good job at wiping them off the face of the planet.

[ChewieTobbacca]

I suppose another set of 'militia', 'peasants', 'bowmen', would be quite boring, so they went a little overboard on making the Aztecs look interesting...

It's actually not really overboard because they really did dress that way when they fought...

[Myrddraal]

It's not overboard in what they look like. Certain aztec warriors did dress that way (see the mural pic on page 1)

The issue (and it is a minor one) is wether they are priests or not.

[lars573]

I think that the reason the Aztecs were put in is so that they could be completely accurate on a units look and have a very unique eye catching troops.

[A jezy]

looks good

[Mount Suribachi]

Only reason I ask is that I have no intention of going there

.......Orda

But you might get a mission to go there....

[econ21]

I think that the reason the Aztecs were put in is so that they could be completely accurate on a units look and have a very unique eye catching troops.

I agree - I was very leery about the idea of including the Aztecs, but seeing the amazing representation of the units, I now have no problem. And in fact am rather looking forward to facing them - hopefully with a very small force (moving a full stack over the Atlantic would be so wrong).

[CrackerJap]

I would like to go there, hire mercs if possible and bring them back to Europe just for fun.

[kiebop]

its a cool aztek unit :dizzy2:

[Gealai]

Obsidian arrowheads can penetrate soft tissues better than similar ones of steel. So great tools, as long as they don't hit armor...

[Guillaume le Batard]

They could easily implement the diseases. That would be cool...



Not trying to be Mr. Heavy-Hand here, but I'm not so sure I will really enjoy conquering the Aztecs at all, let alone with the help of diseases!

I trust CA enough to believe that the gameplay involving the Aztecs will be balanced so that they are at least given a fighting chance (and won't revolve around simply wiping them out).

Nonetheless, I think it's a sensitive subject historically, because of the excessively brutal realities that this "game development" touches on. I bet there were some interesting conversations at CA when the Aztecs were brought up as a possible faction.

More to the point: I really like the look of the units, glad to see them represented with some respect for the culture itself. I'll certainly be rooting for the Aztecs in my games... maybe I'll form a military alliance. :2thumbsup:

Guillaume

[TB666]

maybe I'll form a military alliance. :2thumbsup:

Question is how will that work tho ??
The aztecs can't leave the americas so you will pretty much will defend them against anyone that attacks them.
And of course the question wether you can actually have an alliance with the Aztecs in the first place.
The relations might be so poor that it is impossible.

[Myrddraal]

let alone with the help of diseases!
Lets face it though, how much trouble was a plague in RTW? Not much, it was more of an inconvenience. A plague which appears with the Europeans wouldn't unbalance the game...

[Peasant Phill]

I thought someone from CA said that plagues would have more impact this time around. Besides the Aztecs will be AI controlled so they probably won't implement the easy solutions that human players tend to use.

[hoetje]

I agree - I was very leery about the idea of including the Aztecs, but seeming the amazing representation of the units, I now have no problem. And in fact am rather looking forward to facing them - hopefully with a very small force (moving a full stack over the Atlantic would be so wrong).

Why would that be wrong econ? :P
I was going to do that.... :P

[econ21]

Why would that be wrong econ?

It's just the impressive thing about the conquistadors was how much they conquered with only a few European troops. Plus, if the stats are realistic, the late European units will greatly outclass the Aztecs. (Indeed, I suspect Ancient Greeks and Persians would greatly outclass the Aztecs.)

[Ragnor_Lodbrok]

This priest looks quite nice indeed.
Didn't a warrior have to capture 6 prisoners in order to become a jaguar warrior?
I had this number in mind, it's probably wrong.

Ah yes, and I want to play the Aztecs. I'm really fond of colourful uniforms.

[Tuuvi]

Theres not really much you can do with a civilization you don't know much about. The Spanish did a pretty good job at wiping them off the face of the planet.

That's not true, there are still people of aztec and mayan descent around. Alot of hispanic people have native american blood in them. Also in some regions people still speak mayan languages.

[The Spartan (Returns)]

yes, i would really like to see Eagle Warriors.

[Tiberius maximus]

wow! that unit is laughable :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

i hope theyre tougher than they look:shame:

[Furious Mental]

Ideally the cost of transporting a large army across the Atlantic should be extremely high and captured Aztec buildings should not be able to train foreign units.

[Conradus]

Now I'm hoping that Eagle and (Jaguar?) Warriors look equally nice. Aztecs'll be a relief after those centuries of meeting the same armies over and over again.

[Nathanael]

Umm, some non-junior member should start a new thread about New 3d unit: Varangian Guard . . .