War Elephants from Carthage picture

[Discoskull]

I've been doing a rundown of ancient warfare images for my portfolio, and I was wondering (since, aside from a carpet and some feathers, the african elephants in EB are still pretty much the same as in vanilla) if I was going the right direction with this image.

What kind of images did they have on the carpet things on the elephants' sides, as well as on the shields?

Anatomy and technical stuff will be cleaned up...

https://img176.imageshack.us/img176/9332/elephantsketchxy5.jpg

As long as I've got access to all these history nuts, I figured I'd make use of it before I started inking this one.

If anybody knows a good site for images of ancient Carthegenian warfare, please share the wealth (all I could find on google were a few images of table top game statues...)

Thanks in advance...

(by the way, EB has been my main source of reference for most of the images - thanks for doing all the research for me, guys! :2thumbsup:)

[Roderick Ponce Von Fontlebottom]

Excellent pic mate did u draw that? Looks good except for the helmet those guys are wearing, it is not the type that Elaphant riders would wear on mount. They wore the curved and singular version.

[abou]

From my readings my understanding is that the African elephants used by Carthage were smaller and had been part of a third species that is now extinct. As such, they were not equipped with a tower as you have drawn. I'll see if I can find where I read that, but someone will probably beat me to it.

Edit: From p. 34 of The Fall of Carthage by Goldsworthy


The elephants employed were probably African Forest elephants, somewhat smaller than Indian elephants, but more amenable to training than today's African elephants. The elephant was the main weapon, using its bulk and strenght to terrify or crush opposition, but Hellenistic armies also mounted towers on the animals' backs, from which crewmen hurled or fired missiles. There is no direct evidence indicating that Punic war elephants also carried towers, but Polybius' account of the Battle of Raphia in 217 BC implies that the African breed was capable of carrying the extra weight.

[Discoskull]

Thanks for the info! Very helpful.

Looks like I'll be drawing this one over...:shame:

[Musopticon?]

Yeah, the towers are a Holywood-thing. But you can of course take as much artistic freedom as you like. It's your work.

[VandalCarthage]

It's actually more of a Renaissance thing. A huge number of artists from a variety of periods added the tower in depicting any number of events involving it.

[Olaf The Great]

Why don't you just make it a Indian Elephant instead so you don't have nasty eraser marks, just erase the ears, and then you fine.

THEN make the Carthaginian Elephant.

[Discoskull]

I think they have smaller tusks, too - I think I'll just make this one a pure fantasy thing and redraw the Carthegenean one completely - then there won't be any eraser marks at all. :laugh4:

[Tanit]

I have it direct from a british military historian, John Warry, that the Carthaginian elephants did not use towers and simply relied on their mass weight and direction of their single rider to scatter their enemies before them.

However, this seems to largely deal with the first punic war where all the accounts refer to elephants with only riders. However, despite all the hellenistic/renaissance images of Hannibal's elephants with towers, I do not think this is true. I see no reason why the Punics would suddenly put towers on their elephants for the second war, they didn't have them in the mercenary war, when they were fairly traditionalist already and their form of elephant fighting had served them well, relatively speaking, in the first war.

[Olaf The Great]

Alright do the fantasy one, why don't you show us the rest of the pictures you have.