Alternate histories

[Derfasciti]

This friday I'm going to get some surgery on my throat so I'll be out of school for probably at least 4 or so days. So I need a couple really good books or so to hold me over.

Let me first say I am a HUGE fan of Turtledove, besides some of his writing flaws his work is pure genius and for the most part, very enjoyable and intriguing. I have to say that from all his work that I've read, which is I guess a fair amount, his Great War Series is probably the most enjoyable thing i've ever read in my entire life. I'm probably in the minority of his readers who are actually rooting for the Confederacy (not because I think they're 100% moral or anything, but it would be so much more interesting if everything isn't so black and white.)

Which brings me to the main reason of this post: I'm looking for some alternate history books or series(or historical fiction) to get into. While the time era doesen't really matter, what does matter is the outlook from the author. This might sound strange but I don't want a book that actually shows you beforehand who is the good guys and bad guys and who's gonna win. Like Turtledove's work for the most part, the good guys and bad guys are non-existent; everyone is his own person with flaws as well as qualities. The "good" and "bad" sides both have good and bad qualities. In short, instead of black and white, I want gray. Maybe the supposed bad guys actually win. I think AH stories should display what was possible, regardless of the reader's probable hope that the good guys always win. Make it interesting jeesh!

Now, i've heard of the 1632 series and I just don't know. It's POD is really dumb and unrealistic but do tell me your opinions of it.

And just in general we could talk about this. I'm open to pretty much any ideas and suggestions. So type away! Err... sorry for the long post.:oops:

Also: Any Harry Turtledove forums around? I've been googling but can't find anything really.

[Stig]

I don't exactly get what you want (which is more upto me then to you, a very big more upto me) anyway I can recommend the book In A Dark Wood Wandering by Helle Haase, problem is that it will be very difficult to get (tho Amazon might have it)
It will tell you who is the main good guy, but it's so full of different characters that you won't know who's good and bad till the very end. You will know who are the main characters and what's it all about, but it's very difficult to understand what it's all about.
It plays in the hunderd years war in France, and is so damned difficult to get just because of everything that happened back then.

[Derfasciti]

Thanks for the book title. I'll definitely check it out. Yeah I figured my description was a bit too confusing.

Pretty much books who's characters and sides are not necessarilly good or bad but both have good and bad qualities.

For instance: In Turtledove's Great War series, most of the characters, even those that exterminate people; are people we can at least partially understand and identify with.

Confederates and Northerners both have their good and bad sides. In other words, there is no clearly defined or even alluded good or bad guy.

I hope that cleared it up a bit:dizzy2:

[Kraxis]

Actually 1862 has an easily defensible position. Great Britain was actually very close to declaring war on the Union early in the war. But more coolheaded people prevailed in the end.

Another book is 1901, which is a quite interesting situation. Germany invades the USA.
While I think the author is far far too happy about the 'home team', he presents it in fairly good ways.

But neither book is something I would consider great by any degree. If you like counterfactual stories, they certainly makes for a good time.

Harry Turtledove also wrote the two-book story of a Japanese invasion of Hawaii on top of the Pearl Harbor attack, Days of Infamy. It is lengthy and at times it feels slow, but it is a good effort. But again it is as if the 'bad' guys don't evolve at all, neither in tactics nor in strength (they trounce the US badly in a battle similar to Midway, just the other way round, but just sit and await a large fleet of Essex carriers in the end).
You are never in doubt as to what will happen. But still it has a few interesting perspectives, such as a family of American Japanese.

[Pannonian]

There are some nice stories here (http://www.flin.demon.co.uk/index.htm). The WI for Harold winning at Hastings is the most detailed, with a notable absence of good guys and bad guys. Well, good guys anyway. The WI for the Falklands describes a particularly implausible scenario, a trashy novel written by an author with no grasp of military realities. Then, if you want some serious analysis, there's an exploration of Operation Sealion. The essays are all written in a humorous style.



Review of the alternate history: The Falklands War

The bandwagon of AH rolls on. We have seen the books on WW2, and the Korean War. Another author is attempting to cash in, this time in a near-present period.

This, however, is definitely an inferior product, clearly rushed out to cash in on the current popularity of AH. This is obvious from the sloppy proofreading. The author seems unable to decide whether she is referring to the Falklands War, or the Falklands Conflict. I will use the title, the Falklands Conflict, as that appears to be the formal name.

The book is best described as a modern Boy's Own Paper Heroic Action Adventure wet dream brought into the modern day. Plausibility goes out of the window, with logistics, politics, economics and common sense all being disposed of in short order. The author may as well have called the book "The Empire Strikes Back", and be done with it.




Book 1: Alien space bat arrival

It is the start of the Napoleonic Wars. A bunch of alien bats from the farthest reaches of space head towards Earth at somewhat above the speed of light. It is a well-known physical law that as you approach the speed of light, time slows down. If you extend the maths, when you exceed the speed of light, time actually goes into reversal.

As a result, these alien bats are able to learn BBC English from radio broadcasts before arriving on Earth just before the industrial revolution gets underway, at the start of the first Global War.

The bats come from a damp, overcast, grey planet. As a result, they choose Manchester as the ideal landing site, having a satisfactory climate and proximity to a future industrial centre.

The English are surprised to see the bats arrive. Luckily, the bats speak English, so communication is not a problem. The bats explain that they have come to enslave humanity and take over as top bat. They are a little surprised when the English agree to become their allies.

After the bats see the living conditions of the working people of Manchester, they have a better understanding.

The English show the bats the French spy captured at Hartlepool recently, and the bats understand that the English believe themselves to be better than humans, and thus talk of enslaving humans means helping the English beat the French.

Wellington is recalled from India, and the next step in the war is discussed. It is agreed that the English would provide infantry and artillery, while the bats provide mechanical cavalry. On advice from the bats, the English understand that the mechanical cavalry is best used on flat terrain. Since the French are active in Egypt, the battleground is chosen. Off go the English and bats to Egypt. Lots of trouble for the RN in carrying 50 ton mechanical horses, but they cope.

Wellington gets on well with Nelson, both being modest and having very similar attitudes towards man-management. The tactful and mild-spoken Picton is given command of the cavalry.

The English and French meet at a place called El Alamein. Victory to the English! A number of promotions follow: Richard Sharpe is made Lt (after having been thought to be dead), Bolitho and Hornblower make Nelson's name famous at the Battle of the Nile; Riflemen Harris and Brewster are made corporal. Raglan fights bravely and with great intelligence, but is killed.

Lots of blood-curdling action, with lots of descriptions of mechanical cavalry advancing.

Britain beats France and take Egypt.

[Marshal Murat]

Harry Harrison is very interesting with the Civil War stories. It has a twist I didn't expect.

I heard there was one about the early 1800's American wars between the Americans and the Indians.

[Derfasciti]

I remember hearing on the history channel about a book that was about a Japanese-American war. This was written a good bit before Pearl Harbor and officers on both sides read it. Anyone ever hear of this book too?

[Kraxis]

I seem to remember something about that.

But it might have to do with the wargames the Navy played only a short while prior to Pearl Harbor, where a carrier force attacked from the north. It was a devastating rout of the base and the airfields.

[Geezer57]

Any true fan of alternate history, especially with an ancient flavor, should read S. M. Sterling's Nantucket Trilogy (Island in the Sea of Time, Against the Tide of Years, and On the Oceans of Eternity). They're all linked here: http://www.amazon.com/Island-Sea-Time-M-Stirling/dp/customer-reviews/0451456750

And when you're through with that masterpiece, you should go on to his related trilogy, set in modern times but where most fundamental processes of contemporary technology no longer work (Dies the Fire, The Protector's War, and A Meeting at Corvallis]). Link here: http://www.amazon.com/Dies-Fire-Roc-Science-Fiction/dp/0451460413/sr=1-1/qid=1159808774/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-7556398-0144833?ie=UTF8&s=books

Both trilogies highly recommended, just don't read them out of sequence. :laugh4:

[Derfasciti]

I seem to remember something about that.

But it might have to do with the wargames the Navy played only a short while prior to Pearl Harbor, where a carrier force attacked from the north. It was a devastating rout of the base and the airfields.


I don't know about that, but I do remember(at least thinking I do) that it was a British author...I think. Wish I could find it somewhere.