View Full Version : EB looking for betatesters!!
Krusader
10-02-2006, 01:20
Work on EB 0.8 is progressing and some big new systems we have are now in place, but there are still things to do and things to work out. We want 0.8 to have as few bugs, quirks and CTDs as possible and it's here that you can help out. We need some fans to help us out beta-testing the 0.8 mod while we are adding new content to it, so we are sure minimal hiccups or other fatalities sneak in.
Anyone can apply, but people who can bring something extra to the table like skinning skills, text writing, being able to do time-consuming grunt work etc. will get priority. The main criteria though is that you can play EB often and provide constructive and helpful feedback to the EB team. However, we must also note that this will not be a first-come, first-served arrangement. We had a beta testing group before where the mod was served straight up to outside people and modders, and we do not want a repeat (though this time we have less to keep secret - relatively few things really). So although offering to help sooner rather than later might help matters, it still will depend on whether or not we have some indication that you will be able to actually help us in playtesting and that we feel somewhat safe handing you a copy of the current build. If your reply to this is your first or second post, it's probably best just to wait, in other words :grin:. The group will be pretty small, so the odds aren't good that any one person will be able to test for us, but some of our testers in the past have joined the team and done great things for us, and this sort of route might be open to people who we really see helping us out here too.
We still have a couple of things we would like to clean up even for the playtesters though, so this won't happen immediately. But you probably won't have very long to wait if you are chosen. Thanks for your interest and we're only sorry that we can't say this is the very last step before releasing 0.8 - because it's not. But we are trying and working as hard as ever and we have nothing in front of us that looks insurmountable, at least for now.
As a further update, the biggest single thing that remains between now and the release of 0.8 is full integration of all currently completed units, and our unit integration team is moving forward on these every day, with more and more units in-game. We are prepping everything else to get ready for this. Our most recent big step has been a totally new unit recruitment and MIC system that was required by the changes CA put into the game between 1.2 and 1.5 that caused CTD's under our old system. Every single recruitment line was thrown out, and now a totally new system has been put in place, with new hidden resources and all the rest of our building complexes being given over to the new method. This system is now in place and is being tested and tweaked.
All applies are done in this thread. Don't use PM as it will not help and will not be counted.
Zaknafien
10-02-2006, 01:26
ooh,ooh, me. :2thumbsup: I have a full 12 hours per day of computer time now that I'm on operations center duty, of which I am eagerly able to devote a full 9 or 10 to betatesting :idea2:
I am also more than capable and willing to assist with text writing, descriptions, etc.
I am willing to do beta-testing. Unfortunately, my abilities beyond that isn't much except for text-writing and spell checking, but I am willing.
Slartibardfast
10-02-2006, 01:52
What a coincidence,
Deep Thought has finally after ten thousands years found the answer to life, the universe, and everything. What an anti-climax that was let me tell you.
Anyway, so I'm using him to play EB0.74 more or less 24/7 pan-dimensionally so if I can help with 0.8 beta testing I can always put those fiord CAD's on hold for a century or two. Pick me!
Or............... I could use a big gun!
Sorry, that was a threat. I believe some people find them effective, but I'm afraid I've never been terribly good at them.
No job, no responsibilities, am awake for around 14 hours per day and would be willing to dedicate at least 4 a day to testing 0.8... Can't do anything other than test it and look for bugs/spelling errors though.
Not too bothered if you pick me or not, 0.8 will be released with or without my help.
(This post was serious)
What a coincidence,
Deep Thought has finally after ten thousands years found the answer to life, the universe, and everything. What an anti-climax that was let me tell you.
Anyway, so I'm using him to play EB0.74 more or less 24/7 pan-dimensionally so if I can help with 0.8 beta testing I can always put those fiord CAD's on hold for a century or two. Pick me!
Or............... I could use a big gun!
Sorry, that was a threat. I believe some people find them effective, but I'm afraid I've never been terribly good at them.
First of all I would like to say that I too am a Hitchhikers fan and that post was bloody hilarious!
Second of all I would like to apply to be a beta tester. I am in Classical Archaeology, so I am learning new stuff about the Roman and Greek civs, as well as many others, daily. I am an arts student and have LOADS of free time in the evenings. I love EB and would gladly playtest any faction or section you order endlessly. And...I have a background, even if not a big one, in programming, modding, and scripting. I also have many friends in computer engineering who also love EB and though they have no time to play they would answer any questions I had. As an added bonus I am getting photoshop any day now so I can do skinning as well.
Please pick me!
I'll volunteer. My useful skills would be limited to text writing, unfortunately. However, I figure myself a passable writer with good research skills. And while I do have university-related work, I currently devote 1-4 hrs a day, 4-5 days a wk to playing .74. Pretty sure that'd go up if it was .8, know what I mean?
Good luck getting things figured out for the release.
I am more than willing to test I have a basic understanding of the basic RTW text files desc_strat , names, units, buildings (at least the recruitment part), and look forward to to understanding EB's recruitment system (whenever I get my hands on it) and I have been playing around with EB's background script lately so I am somewhat familiar with it although I have'nt really figured much out yet.
I have done some work before on a RTW tech support subforum mainly handling the repetitive bugs (install errors, corrupt downloads ect) while forwarding actual bugs to team members to deal with.
I do work full time so can only play 3-4 hrs a day during the week but weekends are quite free lately.
Heres hoping :grin3:
-Praetor-
10-02-2006, 05:23
A beta test for a beta??? :inquisitive: That doesn`t make much sense.
I assure you, there will be information leaks. You can`t know who`s really responsible. My humble opinion is that you should only test it internally.
Plz, don`t pick me BTW.
Teleklos Archelaou
10-02-2006, 05:46
A beta test for a beta??? :inquisitive: That doesn`t make much sense.
I assure you, there will be information leaks. You can`t know who`s really responsible. My humble opinion is that you should only test it internally.
Plz, don`t pick me BTW.
We need additional people to test it. We will pick people we think we can trust - but if they leak something, well, worse things happen at sea. We'll do as best we can though.
It makes sense to us at the stage we are at. We have a lot of members, but they can't spend all their time making content as well as playtesting things thoroughly. So we bring in maybe 5 folks or something (that's a guess; I've no idea how many it will be really, it could be more) to do some very active testing for us and they get to start playing the new build a little early and let us know what things still need help. If you don't like the "beta" title, we still haven't gotten to 1.0, so the build is still a beta from our point of view.
vizigothe
10-02-2006, 05:48
I am presently not playing any games so if you wanted I could do this. I can work my way through the text files and people tell me all their secrets because I never tell anyone other people's secrets.
Obviously I am bored and I have this computer so I should see if someone can put it to work for me.
Anyway off to bed I have a test tomorrow morning. (hurrah Wester Civ)
I would love to BETA test 0.8. I do have some basic experience with desc_strat, but I am a very fast learner and with correct training I could be able to do everything! Although above all things I can write descriptions if I have the correct historical information and sources and I can make good suggestions (I have been very active in the suggestions for 0.8 thread submitting 29 posts). I never leak secrets to anybody and I promise that I will lock the door and close the curtains when I play EB Closed BETA.
I have about two hours every day I can dedicate to EB, but at the weekend (particularly on a Sunday) I can play almost all day (1:00-5:00 Saturday 9:00-12:00 and 2:00 - 7:00 Sunday)
And I am also planning on getting photoshop so I could (with a little training and a few tutorials) skin.
GiantMonkeyMan
10-02-2006, 07:44
i'll beta test if you want... i have about 3-5 hours to do so a day depending on when i get to tired and just want to go to sleep :sweatdrop:
i also have modding experience and have beta tested both blue lotus and (for a while until my BI disk stopped working) athurian: total war
I'd be interesting in Beta Testing, I have practically all the time in the world...no job and a light college scedule with little to no homework plus three day weekends where I could theoretically beta-test for eight hours or more each day.
Markus_Aurelius
10-02-2006, 11:26
I would be willing to help you on this. I have relatively good experience at reading code (or whatever its called, export descr unit,strat,buidlings and all that jazz). If i did get picked I would not leak anything as knowing and not telling is alot more fun. Im still in highschool though so I may not have a whole lot of comp time, but its the beginning of the year and i have no projects as of yet. Maby 2-5 hours a day a week on average.
Reenk Roink
10-02-2006, 11:45
Reenkmeister has turned in his first batch of college papers and took his first group of tests, and so would really like to get back to EB. :grin:
I must confess, other than editing the data files here or there, I'm really no good at modding.
By the way:
Will beta-testers get lines to torture fans? :tongue3:
Zaknafien
10-02-2006, 15:13
If trust is a qaulifying merit, I just want you guys to know I hold a Top Secret/SCI security clearance :2thumbsup: lol
fallen851
10-02-2006, 17:57
As a further update, the biggest single thing that remains between now and the release of 0.8 is full integration of all currently completed units
Excellent, but may I ask a few questions?
So, did the reinforcement CTD get fully fixed or not?
Also will or will there not be some placeholder general/captain and standard bearer skins in EB so we don't have to look at the vanilla models?
Teleklos Archelaou
10-02-2006, 18:03
We're still working on the reinforcement CTD. Our main problem has been the disappearance of our trait team leader about three or four months ago. But quie honestly since Bozoslivehere showed up things have been moving a lot faster, and we've got some other newer guys to help out too.
I must ask though, did you ever get the reinforcement CTD in an EB campaign game?
Zaknafien
10-02-2006, 18:22
Ive noticed a few CTDs after reinforcement battles during several campiagn gamers; auto-resolve is the only way to avoid them
GiantMonkeyMan
10-02-2006, 18:50
i've never had a CTD with EB at all... possibly one of the most stable 'beta's i've played :shrug:
Teleklos Archelaou
10-02-2006, 18:57
I was specifically asking the person who was asking us about it - though I didn't use the "quote" button, so I see whence the confusion came. I was under the impression that fallen hadn't played an EB campaign at all, so I was wondering if he had experienced one of our reinforcement CTD's himself. :grin:
I'm really tempted to sign up, but I wouldn't do a lot of good.
iberus_generalis
10-02-2006, 19:24
i've got some skill at writting, skinning a bit but it could still get some improvement, .txt files editing...no scripting though, still trying to learn modeling but ain't got 3dsmax(i using blender)....i would like to be able to help, i would hope i had more skills i don't have the skills, but that's i've got at the moment... i do have some time up till the begining of november(then my clinical teaching period begins, all day long at the hospital, and the rest of the time, studying for the next day), being back to moding and RTW by the midle of December/begining of january up till the beginings of march....
if by chance you at EB deem me worthy, i would be honored to help and beta test...(pm me if that ocurs...=))
Discoskull
10-02-2006, 19:26
This post does not exist.
Hi all,
almost exactly one year ago i (like many other people, too) announced myself to be part of the closed beta team of EB.
I wasn't chosen ~:mecry (i think it was one of my first posts in this forum).
Now i'm asking again: I would be an honour to me to be in the closed beta team:
I have some freetime again (wrote my last exam on friday :2thumbsup: , faq update is going to come this week), and basic knowledge about the different RTW textfiles, especially the EB 0.74 ones (sprites and some different enhancement like grass mod and several tutorials of the scriptorium...).
I know how to use the Vercingetorix tools
I have advanced knowledge about PC in general (except programming).
it doesn't look like, but my English is better than last time.... ~;)
Nevertheless godd luck with your mod
:bow:
Bonny
ps: if it goes like last time "when it's done" means between christmas and new year.....:balloon2:
MarcusAureliusAntoninus
10-02-2006, 22:20
I'd love to help! I'm pretty good at finding errors and seeking them out. I have no skinning, modelling, or complex modding skills. Though I have edited a great many txt files in my own version of every mod I download.
fallen851
10-02-2006, 23:25
I was specifically asking the person who was asking us about it - though I didn't use the "quote" button, so I see whence the confusion came. I was under the impression that fallen hadn't played an EB campaign at all, so I was wondering if he had experienced one of our reinforcement CTD's himself. :grin:
Is this a cheap shot? I have in fact experienced a reinforcement CTD, based on someone's saved game. You can download saved games with the reinforcement CTD from the thread where the EB team asked for them.
What about the other questions I asked, particularly the one about the skins, whether or not we'll be see ugly vanilla skins?
Sometimes I wonder if you should google better insults TA...
Teleklos Archelaou
10-02-2006, 23:35
Hey, I'm perfectly capable of insulting someone without using google. :laugh4:
But yes, I was wondering if you had actually had a reinforcement CTD yourself - you stated that you have not played an EB campaign yet, so I was confounded by the apparently contradictory information. I didn't think of that as a cheap shot though; I did answer the question, right?
As for the "other questions" (makes it sound like I avoided a bunch, but there's only one other one that I can see), we are working on getting rid of the vanilla general skins, but I can't guarantee that they will all be gone by 0.8. I'm waiting on that just as anyone else is.
Musopticon?
10-03-2006, 00:02
Add me in if you want an internal leak.
We call our release a "beta" because we don't consider it having enough content and polish to be a full release. I will say that our "beta" has far fewer bugs than most "full releases" from mods. Of course, we have the reputation of being extremely buggy, simply because we chose to be honest with the fans and not, shall we say, overly optimistic in our choice of presentation.
fallen851
10-03-2006, 02:27
I'm waiting on that just as anyone else is.
Doh. Makes my life so much easier when I don't have to skin.
*Prays deeply for vanilla free 0.8*
:shame:
Though I don't know if I'll ever play a full campaign of RTW. I started one when I bought the game, then I realized the game...(I have enough warning points)... so I decided to make my own mod, got about half way done, then realized EB had everything my mod had and more and it was all way better, so I stopped work on my mod.
I never play any computer game as much as I modify it... I think that must be why I buy them, to enjoy them through modifying them, rather than actually playing.
So I eagerly await EB so I can modify it... am I the only one?
Ser.Cornelius Equitis
10-03-2006, 02:49
Well my skills in modding limit me to editing some txtfiles:hide: But i do have a lot of time to play, from 2 to 8 hours a day. I havent played any other mod for RTW after i found EB as i am a realism freak..:book:
Olaf The Great
10-03-2006, 03:29
So wait, you HAVE 0.8 completed, but you want to 'beta test" it..
welll..
ITS ALREADY A BETA.:help: :furious3: :furious3: :furious3:
Why didn't you just release it, and let us Beta test it, with this forum.
Oh and uh... I have the power to play for over 12 hours.
Also I can easily mod many textfiles, I don't know how to skin though.
And I know a whole lot about this time period.
Teleklos Archelaou
10-03-2006, 03:35
No. 0.8 is not completed yet. Who said that anywhere?
Trithemius
10-03-2006, 03:37
Alas, between work, university, being married, and trying to lure QwertyMIDX into a discussion about military professionalism in the ancient world I can't commit to the kind of attention required to do a good job at this. :shame:
Olaf The Great
10-03-2006, 06:44
No. 0.8 is not completed yet. Who said that anywhere?
Nvm, I read it wrong what it said is you are putting all the completed things into the Mod, but will the beta-test thing be available to everyone, or just the Beta-testers(In my opinion it doesn't make too much sense, but..awell..
Teleklos Archelaou
10-03-2006, 06:55
Well, we know that when we do release 0.8, a lot of people will have been waiting a long time for it and will be pretty excited about it. It's not 1.0, but still it will be a big deal for us at least. So we want to try and iron out any big problems we can catch before that happens. Not a big deal really - we'll just grab about 5-10 people here (or so, still not sure of number) and let them try it out first and see if we can get some good feedback. That will make the real release of 0.8 go a lot smoother then.
Plus, we don't even have 0.8 yet really. We'll let the betatesters try out our .79 build though first too. We just don't have any people really actively testing campaigns for us, and it would be nice to have a few on hand, so that's what we're doing.
Can I just ask:
How do we know if we get chosen or not? Are you going to PM us?
And how can we give feedback without giving secret infomation to others? I read somewhere that you have a hidden forum. Is that how we give you the feedback?
Do we join the EB public group if we get chosen?
After we have tested it what will be end up doing for EB?
Thankyou
Teleklos Archelaou
10-03-2006, 07:06
We have a second hidden forum on another site - all EB members and the beta testers will have access to it, but beta testers won't have access to the most holy of holies, EBH. :grin: We'll make decisions in a few days and let the people know who were chosen, and let everyone else know if they haven't been in some manner. It's possible some beta testers might become EB members, but that just happens if it happens (if a tester is really helpful and we think the tester can contribute in other areas). The beta testing forum though would probably become temporarily obsolete with the actual release of 0.8, but might be reused as things get closer to 1.0 (which we really hope won't be too much further after 0.8, as we aren't dealing with stepping to another patch or anything like that, which has absolutely beat us senseless and crushed our souls with the changes made in 1.5).
...which has absolutely beat us senseless and crushed our souls with the changes made in 1.5).
Surely it can't be that bad!
Teleklos Archelaou
10-03-2006, 07:17
Yeah, it was pretty horrible. It forced us to entirely scrap the old recruitment and MIC system. ALL building conditionals for units were totally thrown out the window with 1.5. It instantly caused crashes when you looked at the barracks that had units like that in them. That didn't happen in 1.2. It was a nice new "feature" of 1.5 though. Thanks!
We've had a lot of people put their names in now, here and at twc - I hope folks won't be too disappointed if they don't get to test it, but we are really really pushing to try to get 0.8 out soon either way, so hopefully it won't be too much longer either way.
fallen851
10-03-2006, 07:31
Just make sure to include those general/standard bearer skins.
Yeah, it was pretty horrible. It forced us to entirely scrap the old recruitment and MIC system. ALL building conditionals for units were totally thrown out the window with 1.5. It instantly caused crashes when you looked at the barracks that had units like that in them. That didn't happen in 1.2. It was a nice new "feature" of 1.5 though. Thanks!
We've had a lot of people put their names in now, here and at twc - I hope folks won't be too disappointed if they don't get to test it, but we are really really pushing to try to get 0.8 out soon either way, so hopefully it won't be too much longer either way.
Does that mean that the recuitment system in 0.8 will be completly different? And will the 0.79 that the BETA testers be testing for 1.5 or for 1.2. If it's for 1.2 I will have to play downgraded or buy a new copy of RTW (not gold).
To clarify a few issues:
1) The Beta test is for v1.5.....the old days of v1.2 are gone forever.
2) "Soul-crushing" barely begins to describe the impact of losing our core EB system. We lost about half the team during the painful process of rebuilding from the ground up. And if you focus on "active working members", the attrition rate was more like 80%. Fortunately we picked up many new guys who have stepped into the breach and done the heavy lifting that's gotten us this far. I cannot thank them enough - this mod would be dead without them.
3) The EB "Beta" perception. I swear to god, this makes me want to vomit. This version is going to be damn close to v1.0, and I wouldn't be surprised if we made the jump to full release within a month or two after v.80. The whole team is sick and tired of hearing a bug-free game described as a Beta, although to some extent we did this to ourselves with this pre-1.0 numbering convention - it's just that NOBODY imagined the bitter, mod-destroying horrors that lay hidden within the deceptively simple goal of "oh, let's take a month and port over to v1.5 next!" (And yes, we posted a fix to the Reinforcement CTD Bug. It's not perfect, but it's a fix. So for those who just want to bitch about it? Shut up already!)
4) The reason we beta test before releasing is that v.79 contains a number of problems and omissions that we know about but are working on. If we gave it out to the world, people would get pissed off and focus on everything that isn't there. Don't delude yourselves, at least half our work was spent just trying to regain what we had in the last release. Many of the features we had in v.74 STILL aren't back in v.80, although they will be. And finally, we have lots of new stuff that hasn't been integrated yet simply because we needed a stable platform first.
5) That said, there's lots of "blow-your-socks-off" new features, and many of the old standby's have been given facelifts and/or core-level hardening. There will be fewer exploits and a whole lot more eye candy. The music alone makes this next release a "Home Run". But baby, there is sooooo much more!
To clarify a few issues:
1) The Beta test is for v1.5.....the old days of v1.2 are gone forever.
Horray! ~:santa: ~:santa: ~:santa: It's as if Christmas has come early ~:santa: ~:santa: ~:santa: Horray!
Now if I do get to play the closed BETA I will play as a Barbarian first....
Markus_Aurelius
10-03-2006, 11:14
I just can't wait to play those night battles when .8 is released (if i'm not chosen for beta of course!)
Trithemius
10-03-2006, 13:24
Horray! ~:santa: ~:santa: ~:santa: It's as if Christmas has come early ~:santa: ~:santa: ~:santa: Horray!
Now if I do get to play the closed BETA I will play as a Barbarian first....
A barbarian with a long beard and silly red cap? :sweatdrop:
A barbarian with a long beard and silly red cap? :sweatdrop:
Its the Barbarian god of strange hats, silly beards and Christmas. He didn't exist, but hey who cares? Actually don't answer that last one. :laugh4:
A barbarian with a long beard and silly red cap? :sweatdrop:
And by the way: It's meant to be Santa, also known as St. Nicholas, also known as Father Christmas, also known as your mum and dad.
:oops: I just destroyed Christmas for all under twelves in the Org! :oops:
UltraWar
10-03-2006, 17:05
I'd love to help Europa Barbarioum as a beta tester as I love the mod and enjoy playing it.
Teleklos Archelaou
10-03-2006, 18:54
I don't suspect any further applications will be required guys. I think we have gotten about 8-9 people we are looking at and we will let people know as soon as we can. Thanks for putting your names in the hat!
I don't suspect any further applications will be required guys. I think we have gotten about 8-9 people we are looking at and we will let people know as soon as we can. Thanks for putting your names in the hat!
Will you notify us if we are not chosen so that we know that our application has been turned down?
Teleklos Archelaou
10-03-2006, 19:51
Yes.
Trithemius
10-03-2006, 23:31
And by the way: It's meant to be Santa, also known as St. Nicholas, also known as Father Christmas, also known as your mum and dad.
Well he was a saint too, I've have got a 19th century icon with him on it.
yup, ole st nick was a caretaker of orphans among the orange orchards of southern anatolia...lived by the beach in fact. i'm pretty sure i could make a moderately solid academic argument (one day when i'm tenured etc) that the varangian guards were the vehicle for taking st. nick to the north to be id'd with kris kringle/santa claus.
how's that for on-topic?
Zaknafien
10-04-2006, 01:16
Jolly ol' Nick's also known for punching Arias in the face at the First Ecumunical Council :2thumbsup:
Sign me in! I know, that I am quite new here at this forum, but I have played MTW and RTW for some time and EB for about two month.
Aks K
Surely it can't be that bad!
I've probably harped on this topic enough, but let me help you visualize it:
1) Open the file called export_descr_buildings.txt in the Data subdirectory of your v.74 build, and notice that MIC recruitment occupies the section running from row 217 to 13,382. We threw away ALL of it.
2) When you finally get a chance to look at the same file in v.80, you will see that MIC recruitment now runs from approximately row 4560 to 32,300. Every bit of this is new. (And we'll probably add another 10,000 lines or so by the time we finish all the new unit recruitment.)
And this is just one file.
MarcusAureliusAntoninus
10-04-2006, 07:13
The current export_desc_buildings.txt takes me like a minute to open or save, and the new one is going to be more complex?! :dizzy2: :2thumbsup:
Teleklos Archelaou
10-04-2006, 07:24
Yeah, waaaaay more complex. :grin:
We're crazy like that. But dangers are sum like a kold bath, very dangerous while you stand stripped on the bank, but often not only harmless, but invigorating, if you pitch into them.
I've probably harped on this topic enough, but let me help you visualize it:
1) Open the file called export_descr_buildings.txt in the Data subdirectory of your v.74 build, and notice that MIC recruitment occupies the section running from row 217 to 13,382. We threw away ALL of it.
2) When you finally get a chance to look at the same file in v.80, you will see that MIC recruitment now runs from approximately row 4560 to 32,300. Every bit of this is new. (And we'll probably add another 10,000 lines or so by the time we finish all the new unit recruitment.)
And this is just one file.
So you had to get rid of all of that brilliant work. No wonder EB 0.8 is taking so long! You have my deepest sympathy and if I could I would help, but I don't really have the knowledge. However I could be taught! :2thumbsup:
For all that brilliant work you all deserve to get paid, get an award, get promotion to senior member and on top of all that get a job offer from the CA!
Teleklos Archelaou
10-04-2006, 07:33
Well, those 30,000 new lines appear to be working quite well now I must say, after playing a decade as the Maks today.
Those who have been selected to participate in the EB Closed Beta Test Team have received PMs. Don't get discouraged if you did not get a message, there are only so many people that we can let in. Your continued dedication and support on the public boards is greatly appreciated by the whole EB team.
Faenaris
10-04-2006, 14:39
Good luck and happy hunting to all the new testers. Make us proud!
Those who have been selected to participate in the EB Closed Beta Test Team have received PMs. Don't get discouraged if you did not get a message, there are only so many people that we can let in. Your continued dedication and support on the public boards is greatly appreciated by the whole EB team.
Does that mean that if you do not have a PM yet then you are not in?
Teleklos Archelaou
10-04-2006, 18:21
Yes, but you should be glad actually. Take this as a brief reprieve from playing EB all the time. Get your affairs in order and your homework done in advance, so when 0.8 is released you can spend unhealthy amounts of time playing it. Pity those poor souls who will be mercilessly driven to betatest our current working build to get it better ready for you nice folks.
fallen851
10-04-2006, 18:26
Yes, but you should be glad actually. Take this as a brief reprieve from playing EB all the time. Get your affairs in order and your homework done in advance, so when 0.8 is released you can spend unhealthy amounts of time playing it. Pity those poor souls who will be mercilessly driven to betatest our current working build to get it better ready for you nice folks.
Exactly why I did not volunteer... and also why I don't play .74, so .8 will be that much better. So much for me helping the team beta test!
But then again, I likely wouldn't have been picked anyway, people don't like me, and that is just fine with me.
Avicenna
10-04-2006, 18:30
I'm confused. Why is this not alpha testing?
hi if you still need a beta tester i'm available and i can write some descriptions ~:)
Yes, but you should be glad actually. Take this as a brief reprieve from playing EB all the time. Get your affairs in order and your homework done in advance, so when 0.8 is released you can spend unhealthy amounts of time playing it. Pity those poor souls who will be mercilessly driven to betatest our current working build to get it better ready for you nice folks.
You make better testing sound almost hard. When 0.8 is released I probably will not just spend unhealthy amounts of time playing it. I will spend ALL of my time playing it.
And may I wish good look to all BETA testers. May you have no CTDs and may you have all the time in the world to play it. Really I am starting to feel glad that I didn't get in the BETA testing. It gives me lots more time to work out what faction X is... :inquisitive:
And by the way, who did get chosen?
vizigothe
10-04-2006, 18:45
Add me in if you want an internal leak.
Rofl!
fallen851
10-04-2006, 18:47
(And yes, we posted a fix to the Reinforcement CTD Bug. It's not perfect, but it's a fix. So for those who just want to bitch about it? Shut up already!)
Uhh I guess this one is directed at me. So how is this fix going to be included in .80? Is the file going to the be same and we just swap it out when we can't get past a battle?
I'll probably end up tracking down this CTD when .80 comes out anyway, cause that is what I do.
Teleklos Archelaou
10-04-2006, 19:08
If 0.8 still has the problem, and if you track it down and fix it, we will lay wreaths upon your door and give you a special "I pwnd EB!" sig banner. :grin:
Olaf The Great
10-04-2006, 22:47
If 0.8 still has the problem, and if you track it down and fix it, we will lay wreaths upon your door and give you a special "I pwnd EB!" sig banner. :grin:
So your that dancing gnome that attacks the squirrels!
hi if you still need a beta tester i'm available and i can write some descriptions ~:)
Sorry, but it's a little too late.
fallen851
10-05-2006, 17:34
If 0.8 still has the problem, and if you track it down and fix it, we will lay wreaths upon your door and give you a special "I pwnd EB!" sig banner. :grin:
Oh you don't even know if it still have the problem?
I don't see why it is so hard to find, just need to comb through a few text files, really just takes a lot of tedious work, and because I'm a weirdo, I would be paranoid playing EB if I didn't fix it, so I would at least try to fix it... or die trying...
:skull:
Teleklos Archelaou
10-05-2006, 17:51
Oh you don't even know if it still have the problem?
I don't see why it is so hard to find, just need to comb through a few text files, really just takes a lot of tedious work, and because I'm a weirdo, I would be paranoid playing EB if I didn't fix it, so I would at least try to fix it... or die trying...
:skull:
No, that is not the case. It is not a matter of combing through a few files, even tedious amounts. It seems to be more connected to the number of triggers. A lot of people have looked through them to try and find the problem, people inside EB and people outside of EB. It is not an issue of not trying.
And yes, I have stated even recently that we still don't have the problem totally taken care of. Here's the deal, and although Kull got irritated before, I'm going to get extremely irritated if you take the position that we aren't trying to fix this problem:
-there is a reinforcement CTD problem
-we have worked and worked at trying to find what exactly the problem is, and we don't have the problem totally solved yet
-we have ideas about what it is, but it involves restructuring a lot of things, not just going through a lot of things and making one fix
-we have a way of getting around it - a patch - but it keeps you from getting any post-battle traits/ancillaries; still, it can be applied just before a single battle if you have one big one to get around but still want to keep them otherwise
-finally, it has been very difficult for our current trait leader (our previous trait leader just got tired of modding and had real life things that he had to attend to and left a few months ago) to even get the ctd to occur, even in savegames, consistently enough to test it
We aren't lying to people. I said we still have the problem, we are trying to fix it, we have a sorta-fix that will stop it if somebody is freaking out about it, but this is the only damned problem in the whole game that we know of and we are still working to try and figure it all out completely. If you in your great wisdom just sit down and fix it, like you say you "will probably do", we will be *genuinely thrilled*. Until you do that, and until you play an actual campaign where you encounter this CTD, stop busting our balls about it.
fallen851
10-05-2006, 19:33
Busting balls?
I was simply curious about whether or not it had been fixed (not try to question your efforts), I wasn't busting anyones balls. If anything your busting mine.
If no one fixes it before I do, it matters not to me, I don't expect anyone to do anything for me. I'm lucky people actually made this mod, saves me a lot of time. So thank you.
I apologize if it seems like I was trying to say you guys weren't doing anything, however that was not my intention and I was unclear or you misunderstood what I wanted to know. The fact is, to me, it didn't (and doesn't) matter how much your trying in relation to whether or not it was fixed. I just wanted to know if it was fixed or not . That's it. I didn't want to get a long explanation... yada yada yada... I don't care if your trying to fix it, it doesn't matter to me, I'll do it myself, I just don't want to start a game and have it happen before I fixed it.
I've modded nearly everything there is to mod in RTW, it is by far the easiest game to mod I have ever worked on.
Easy is relative though, and this is a product of the amount of time you work on it, after X amount of time, either the problem will be found or someone will found out what is doing it, and why it can't be fixed, or a work around or something. Finding a problem like this is like trying to learn a new skill, some people catch on quick, others don't. X is the amount of time it takes to a person learn that new skill, and if you don't reach, you don't learn it. No one has reached their individual X (since it differs from person to person) when it comes to this problem. Perhaps my X is more or less time than those who have tried, but it doesn't matter, because I do not quit.
With enough time you can build a bridge to the moon. Or monkeys can type Shakespeare. Or something. It doesn't have anything to do with wisdom.
We do not know what X is, but I intend to find out.
As a temp fix to the matter of reinforcement CTDs, I came across this thought: save the game when the screen comes up displaying the forces involved, save the game, exit, and restart. Now, play the battle through and you shouldn't get a CTD because you haven't turned the EB background script on yet. This way, you don't lose after-battle traits with every battle, but you can avoid the CTD.
I haven't had a problem yet, but I have by no means worked out this hypothesis scientifically.
fallen851, would you please do us the kind favour of (putting it very bluntly) shutting up about how easy the Reinforcement CTD would be for you to fix. If you want to try fixing it, try fixing it. Then you will see how what TA said is extremely true. From what I can see about you are not an experienced modder, nor are you an EB player. EB is a BETA and it will have issues like this in it, however it is extremely clear from what the team has said that they are attempting to fix this CTD now and are also trying find a more ideal solution to the problem than removing all post battle traits.
If you think you are so good at fixing CTDs them join the team and try it! I believe that they are trying their hardest to fix it and so should YOU!
fallen851, would you please do us the kind favour of (putting it very bluntly) shutting up about how easy the Reinforcement CTD would be for you to fix. If you want to try fixing it, try fixing it. Then you will see how what TA said is extremely true. From what I can see about you are not an experienced modder, nor are you an EB player. EB is a BETA and it will have issues like this in it, however it is extremely clear from what the team has said that they are attempting to fix this CTD now and are also trying find a more ideal solution to the problem than removing all post battle traits.
If you think you are so good at fixing CTDs them join the team and try it! I believe that they are trying their hardest to fix it and so should YOU!
I remember when i was playing .74 not long after it came out and was looking for bugs to report, a file was released which changed some traits to see if it fixed the reinforcement CTD, and it worked... So the problem is in the traits... It should just be a matter of removing each trait one by one until you find which one it was that was causing the problem... Or has this been done already? I mean i'll be happy to do boring grunt work like this in the closed beta... I did 3 hours of boring gruntwork a while back getting coordinates for each city on the map, then a further 2 hours trying to find out which one i had missed! :laugh4:
As a temp fix to the matter of reinforcement CTDs, I came across this thought: save the game when the screen comes up displaying the forces involved, save the game, exit, and restart. Now, play the battle through and you shouldn't get a CTD because you haven't turned the EB background script on yet. This way, you don't lose after-battle traits with every battle, but you can avoid the CTD.
I haven't had a problem yet, but I have by no means worked out this hypothesis scientifically.
Script on or off, does not matter. Not for me at least.
While we are on the subject of reinforcment battles: I noticed that the only times I get CTD's is when barbarians are involved. Ive done 3 campaigns. With the romans it crashed in most battles when fighting gauls/ germans/ britons or Iberia. With Sweboz it crashed in most battles. With Carthage it has crashed 1-4 times in +- 30 reinforcement battles, which was vs rebels/Iberia. No crashes vs KH and Ptolemy's).
I was wondering if others have had the same experience.
Teleklos Archelaou
10-05-2006, 20:29
I remember when i was playing .74 not long after it came out and was looking for bugs to report, a file was released which changed some traits to see if it fixed the reinforcement CTD, and it worked... So the problem is in the traits... It should just be a matter of removing each trait one by one until you find which one it was that was causing the problem... Or has this been done already? I mean i'll be happy to do boring grunt work like this in the closed beta... I did 3 hours of boring gruntwork a while back getting coordinates for each city on the map, then a further 2 hours trying to find out which one i had missed! :laugh4:
Please read what I just posted above. It does not seem to be one trait. It also doesn't happen everytime - and since these are battles, it's hard to make them all turn out the same. It appears to be a much more complex problem, possibly brought on by the number of post battle triggers and the way the system checks and sometimes double checks them. I think bozoslivehere has a possible solution, but it seems complex, so we may just have to wait a bit longer.
BozosLiveHere
10-05-2006, 21:07
A couple of facts about the Reinforcements CTD:
*After extensive testing by Malrubius and others, it was agreed that there wasn't a single problem trait. Before he left, he was working with the hypothesis that the problem happened because the engine made too many PostBattle tests, even with captains (it's well known that 1.2 has a bug where if you don't autocalc battles, PostBattle triggers are checked twice: we had a pretty neat workaround for that).
*Turning the script on or off won't help you avoid the CTD. The problem is trait, not script related.
*I'm not even trying to fix the .74 version CTD. Sorry, my time is limited, and right now I think getting .8 done is a much more important job.
*At the moment, I don't know if our current internal build suffers from the Reinforcement CTD. I haven't received any reports of it yet, but then again, not a lot of people have been playtesting it so far. Trying to get one is one of the things I specifically asked the betatesters to do. What I do know is that we have a heavily modified traits file and that 1.5 solved the 'PostBattle triggers get checked twice' bug, so I'm hoping we just won't have to deal with it.
*If it persists, we will fix it. Even if it's related to the number of PostBattle triggers we'll find a way. Bear in mind though, that if that happens, we'll have to make a few tough decisions about cutting traits. Just to give you guys some perspective, my latest version of export_descr_character_traits.txt has 447 PostBattle triggers.
fallen851
10-05-2006, 21:19
fallen851, would you please do us the kind favour of (putting it very bluntly) shutting up about how easy the Reinforcement CTD would be for you to fix. If you want to try fixing it, try fixing it. Then you will see how what TA said is extremely true. From what I can see about you are not an experienced modder, nor are you an EB player. EB is a BETA and it will have issues like this in it, however it is extremely clear from what the team has said that they are attempting to fix this CTD now and are also trying find a more ideal solution to the problem than removing all post battle traits.
If you think you are so good at fixing CTDs them join the team and try it! I believe that they are trying their hardest to fix it and so should YOU!
Easy is relative. Hard is relative. They are not objective. Hard to them, may be easy to me and vice versa. I guess this needs to be explained.
Hard to many people is having to spend a long time on something. Like "easy-mac" is being able to quickly whip up mac and cheese. The mac isn't "easy", the process which you make it isn't "easy" (easy is a construct and requires something to relative, so it is hard to make easy mac compared to closing your eyes), what makes it easy is that it takes less time (and less steps) than making normal mac and cheese.
So this bug is "hard" for the EB team for the same reason easy mac is easy to many people. This bug takes more time to solve, and requires more steps (unless someone is missing the very obvious, which is unlikely) compared to other bugs, so it is "hard".
To me, hard is not something that takes a long time to fix or requires a lot of steps, and as I proved above, this is a problem that can be solved (either by fixing, or realizing it can't be fixed) through time. Thus it is easy to me because the number of steps required (which take time to learn so it is really just time) and the time are of no consequence. I can work on this bug for a long, long time, if necessary. It is nice to live a life of leisure where I can pick and choose the problems I want to solve because I'm not materalistic.
I ran into an arguement that fixing cars is "hard". I work on my own car, because I felt like it. Learning how to work on cars (which for me was overcoming the fear of breaking something and having an extra expense or dying) takes time. Spending the time to earn money to buy tools, or make your own tools is of course said to be "hard" because anything that takes time is "hard" in our society.
So maybe instead of getting all worked up, you could read my post and think "hmm he is going to work on it a lot, for a long time, learn how to fix it, and he doesn't think its hard, because what makes it hard for the EB team, isn't what makes things hard for him."
So drop the idea that there is a universal hard, and be happy. And drop the idea of universal complex to, because how this bug is complex, is relative to what you compare to it. This bug is not hard, nor complex, compared to other things I have overcome. This attitude is one that wills Ann Wolfe to be one of the best boxers in the world, and it can empower you too.
Going even deeper, we can drop hard and easy from our vocab, and just say "this exists, it need to be altered so we can use it differently". Something being hard or easy doesn't help us solve it. So in conclusion, not only should I stop saying the bug is easy, but the EB team should stop whining about hard it is, because they don't exist until you define them. And of course by labeling it as hard it doesn't tell us anything. Which is why I said it was easy, to show how quickly things can be redefined and how useless a tag it is.
Finally, I don't join teams, for a variety of reasons. One being that joining a team requires you give up a measure of your individual goals, in order to seek the team's goals. Furthermore, they often have their own "laws" of what is acceptable and not acceptable, which may or may not violate other "legal" laws... ect ect.
So I play Chess, Bad Minton, drag race.. ect ect for those reasons, and furthermore, because if I lose, I have no one to blame but myself, and I can look at the reasons why I lost very objectively.
Those of us who actually know what we are talking about will continue to work on the problems until they are solved, or we determine they cannot be solved and work around them, as always. Others who talk a lot yet produce nothing will, well, talk a lot but produce nothing of value, as always.
fallen851
10-06-2006, 05:46
Those of us who actually know what we are talking about will continue to work on the problems until they are solved, or we determine they cannot be solved and work around them, as always. Others who talk a lot yet produce nothing will, well, talk a lot but produce nothing of value, as always.
Ahh I love you. The best part about this is, the problem isn't solved. So talk. Or don't. But where is the production of value? Looks to me like the problem hasn't been solved. So everyone is talking, and no one is producing anything of value.
When you can't defeat my logic, enter the personal attacks.
Or maybe you're keeping it a secret, you've solved it. I don't know, but that is just fine with me too, less work for me. It seems to me you guys are quite close, if it is indeed too many post battle traits, you're already there. So I hope 1.5 fixes it, and I hope I don't have to work on it. I can be on the bottom rung or the top rung of the "internet social group" and I'll still the be the same.
How do I incite such reactions? I ask a simple question about what is happening with the reinforcement CTD, and everyone gets out their torches...
Of course that question was never answered..."Is the file going to the be same and we just swap it out when we can't get past a battle?", because ripping on me was more important. As always =)
Discoskull
10-06-2006, 05:53
Shush
Teleklos Archelaou
10-06-2006, 05:58
Ahh I love you. The best part about this is, the problem isn't solved. So talk. Or don't. But where is the production of value? Looks to me like the problem hasn't been solved. So everyone is talking, and no one is producing anything of value.
I want to reach through the screen and spray your keyboard with some bleach to get you to go away.
I work, every single day, most of the day, on pouring content into this mod - many many things "of value". You are absolutely insane fallen. :laugh4: As a suggestion, take a break from the forum till you can play nicely. "I rather admire the insolent civility ov a bull-tarrier, who only growls when i pass by him, but i never did like it in a man."
On another note, the beta test team has been chosen. Let's put this here thread to sleep. Nitey nite folks.
Here's something to have sweet dreams over (one cool pic of a unit we've already previewed before; one of a number of them we showed the betatesters as a welcome present :grin:):
https://img95.imageshack.us/img95/1660/2yk9.jpg[/cruelty]
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