View Full Version : Who lost the battle of Agincourt?
Come on, you know you can't keep it a secret forever ;)
I find it hard to lose, without sending my general on a suicide attack. If I just order all units i have into a fight, I win anyway
Anyone managed lo lose? while playing serious? Did you manage to lose at all?
Furious Mental
10-10-2006, 17:49
I lost the first time. I think my longbowmen shot Henry V in the back. I do wish they wouldn't do that.
Bob the Insane
10-10-2006, 18:25
Won the first, lost the second, won the third...
I think the only way you can really lose is if you do not deal with the rear cavalry attack appropriately...
When I lost I had been had been running the billmen around a bit and they where still in motion and out of position when the cavalry attack turned up... The cavalry made the efoort to strike my manuvouring billman from the flanks and proceeded to cut them to bits. Plus one unit got past and smashed the longbow men on the left flank and proceeded to roll along the archers... King Henry went down fight in a mass of French dismounted nobles...
In the third attempt I I put my infantry on guard (except of the King's unit whim I used as mobile trouble shooters) and left the billmen in the rear...
I hardly had to lift a finger to win that time...
Ibn Munqidh
10-10-2006, 18:49
To lose in that battle u must be an idiot. You just have to sit around and wait for victory.
x-dANGEr
10-10-2006, 19:35
Well, I lost Pavia a couple of times.. (Mind you, my 3 FPS rate and really bad GFX were no help :P )
Though, now after I picked the perfect settings with the smallest scale possible, it shows easy.
P.S. Isn't it strange there are no difficulties?
I played the demo... 7 times.. and i never lost 1 battle... Not to brag or someting but it isn't that hard.
Well, I lost Pavia a couple of times.. (Mind you, my 3 FPS rate and really bad GFX were no help :P )
Though, now after I picked the perfect settings with the smallest scale possible, it shows easy.
P.S. Isn't it strange there are no difficulties?
Why can't i pick my unit sizes?
cutepuppy
10-10-2006, 19:51
the French?
I won but it was much closer than I expected :embarassed:
England won the real battle with relatively low losses, I was left with only about 2-300 guys :no:
yeah i won but with only King Henry`s unit and a few longbowmen.
When I played I didnt really do anything, I just let the french come at me.
Zatoichi
10-10-2006, 22:50
First time I played it was a pyrhic victory, as I only had a handful of dismounted knights and longbowmen left. Second time was better but by then I was aware of the surprise element and cheesily planned accordingly!
Pavia I lost first time and won the second, but I was concentrating on the new units and animations more than the actual battle. That's my excuse and I'm sticking with it.
Bob the Insane
10-10-2006, 22:54
Having a lot of fun running around the battle feild with King Henry's army now...
Try retreating to the big hill to the rear of your position, that is a laugh... You have to sacrific a unit to give you troops time to get there...
I think I will try moving my units into the town, and possibly an all out attack to see what happens...
Doing this really shows the scripted nature of the battle though... So units appear to be instructed to go to a position and attack, but if you have moved away they just hang around doing nothing. But other units appears to be scripted to attach certain of your units and will follow them all over the battlefield to do so...
The Marcher Lord
10-10-2006, 23:12
:laugh4: Oh yes! Lost it the first time I played it because I switched off all the HUD buttons/icons etc. then went in close for a load of screenies and just to enjoy seeing the French cavalry slaughtered at the wooden stakes. Then I got the message that Henry was having a spot of bother and could I possibly help, looked up and the poor sod was completely surrounded by the French rear attack. King dies - Game Over :laugh4:
Sir Robin
10-10-2006, 23:23
The Brits just have so much more experience than the French it would be hard really to lose.:oops:
I just hope some modder hacks it so I can bring the Brits experience down or the Frenchies up. That would make it a more interesting battle.
2nd time was less close but still uncomfortably high losses.
3rd time I swapped out the knights in the middle for the billmen & then hopped in the shower.
Came out & the cav seems to have charged the stakes to the death, all but 3individual archers dead + billmen & 4 units of knights largely unmolested.
I hate to think how this battle would go with weaker English units :o
Polemists
10-11-2006, 03:24
You people who keep braggin about never losing must be bored lol. I personally enjoy the challenge. Paxia is pretty challenging and while Agincourt is not the hardest battle ever it has it's own challenges. Mainly like others said the calvary in the rear. I guess if you pause alot and don't actually watch the fighting i'd be easier but it's just so nice to watch :)
RtkBedivere
10-11-2006, 04:05
P.S. Isn't it strange there are no difficulties?
the demo only supports the one AI setting. The real game of course will have many more options. I guess its CA's way of suprising us with potentially stronger AI.
Beelzebub
10-11-2006, 04:34
I didnt lose but it was challenging, most of my units of english knights/billmen (besides Henry's unit) had taken a beating and were between 10-30 men by the end. They held the line but just barely (same with the 2 units of billmen/knights) that held off rear, if one of them had routed I would of easily been overrun, although I did bolster them with Henry's guard. Overall a very entertaining battle, and a good reminder of why total war rules.
Oo man, just played through the demo battles, awesome! I can't wait till this thing is released. Came pretty close to losing, gotta say. I was left with 187 men when all was said and done, Henry did well. If their King didn't go down at the last minute when he did, I would have lost for sure. Boy oh boy, fun stuff. I like the speeds, animations, blood, everything. One month is looking like a lifetime right about now.
Oh and Pavia was called a draw! Awesome! I forgot that I was supposed to go on the offensive and take out the remaining forces after their initial attacks, so I lost a few minutes there. By the time I was mobilizing to take them out, I got the draw message. Pretty fun though, muskets are awesome. Graphics are gorgeous, I'm running everything on high with no slow down at all, I can't believe it.
Slartibardfast
10-11-2006, 05:09
the French?
Yes but they were defeated by the mud.
Yes but they were defeated by the mud.
And the arrows piercing their flesh.
Midnight
10-11-2006, 08:53
I decided to just start the battle, ramp the speed up to 3.0, and wait.
Guess what? Clear Victory! Henry, 5 of his bodyguard, and a unit of 30 or so yeoman archers (all arrows spent) were all I had left, but I still won without doing a single thing (doesn't seem like a Clear Victory to me, but that's what it said)!
Ituralde
10-11-2006, 08:55
I actually lost Agincourt once, when King Henry managed to get killed in the cavalry charging in from behind (he was turned around and facing them though), kind of a bummer as the battle was really progressing well and I had very few casualties. The only other time I came close to loosing was when I watched out for blood effects and to admire the pretty graphics. Was left with 300 men at the end.
The more I play the battles, the more I actually like Agincourt, I know it's simple and you hardly have to maneuver as opposed to Pavia, but the scale feels more epic and the High Era units are just much more to my liking than the Late Era units.
Cheers!
Ituralde
Won Agincourt relatively easily.Agincourt ain't much of a challenge.I didn't lose ONE unit,and when units where having a hard time,I just sent henry in to deal with the French.Mind you,Henry's unit only lost 2 men:P
But...my first battle,Pavia,I lost.Mainly because I thought I was watching a movie^^ I just sent my men in,and see how those finishing moves work and I gotta say,it's awesome:2thumbsup: Well done CA:laugh4:
x-dANGEr
10-11-2006, 13:32
the demo only supports the one AI setting. The real game of course will have many more options. I guess its CA's way of suprising us with potentially stronger AI.
Well, the difficluties in RTW gave the AI bonuses, nothing more about it.. Does this tell us that now difficulties actually make a difference in skill/tactics/strategies of the AI rather than the usual bonus(es) it gets?
I downloaded the demo last night but didn't get to play. I got up this morning, set the resolution to fit my widescreen 24" monitor and started the Agincourt battle. Someone said you could win by doing nothing so I kicked the speed up full and watched before getting ready for work. I got slaughtered! Looks sweet though! I can't wait till tonight when I can actually play.
Derfal Cadarn
10-12-2006, 13:17
Lost Agincourt the first time, totally surprised by the knights at the rear and well poor old henry was left standing fighting against them all.
Played it second time and countered the attack from the rear, and won, however like most people had that few men left I wouldnt have wanted to see any more French coming at me.
As for Parvia, first game won fairly easily, other than my Musketeers routed a bit quick, however when I played the second time, I got swamped by troops , but hey such is life.
Any ways from what Ive seen so far it looks good, plays ok, and given that this is not the final version, am hopeful that the game will meet most expectations
RtkBedivere
10-12-2006, 14:52
Well, the difficluties in RTW gave the AI bonuses, nothing more about it.. Does this tell us that now difficulties actually make a difference in skill/tactics/strategies of the AI rather than the usual bonus(es) it gets?
Thats the hope but you would have to ask someone who knows. The idea was to make a much better AI and i assume that means put different skills/tactics in. But as i said you would have to ask someone like pala who really knows.
I won my first time but then lost the next two because Henry got himself impaled on lances after he charged the rear-going cavalry.
After that, I've had several interesting ones where I abandon my position at the stakes and either fall back to the hill behind and across the road (a battle which took nearly fourty minutes) or else charge out into the open field at the last minute and flank with my archers, leaving some to contend with the incoming cavalry.
The pull back to the hill ended up with the lowest losses, even though I had to sacrifice two Archer units to keep the cavalry busy while I got into a defensive position.
Today's adventure will be moving everyone to take on the flanking cavalry early and then occupy that ridge up by the windmills.
Something very strange occurred at Pavia last night...
As you know,the French knights always charge in front of your spearmen(they are scripted too) but last night,they actually charged very well,resulting in them slaying my spearmen all the way.First,I thought i already lost,but then, I saw good old Francis was a little overconfident,and found himself in the middle of all spearmen.They killed him of course,then the battle was easily won...
My point is,how can it be that that charge had so much more impact?I played Pavia like 5 times,and I saw the cavalry fall like flies everytime when they hit my spearmen...This time,it seemed they didn't want to die,I was very lucky that my spearmen killed Francis,otherwise i would have been beaten,no doubt.
Leet Eriksson
10-12-2006, 16:20
Yeah i had the same weird thing happen yesterday, the french knights broke through the landsknechts and formed an oppening, francis proceeded and charged through the opening and slaughtered some of my arquebus soldiers. Luckily either my arquebusiers or the spanish musketeers killed him, becuase my soldiers were occupied dealing with the scots guard and attacking voulgiers.
About agincourt, i left the battle alone without commanding or doing anything, and i won :|
Beelzebub
10-12-2006, 18:48
Im guessing that one lucky knight (or maybe just him and his horse's flying corpse) got through the spear wall and disrupted the formation enough that it created an opening for others to follow.
Slartibardfast
10-13-2006, 02:18
And the arrows piercing their flesh.
Mud! mud! Glorious mud!
Was on one of those Battlefield Detective doco, thingie, whatsits on SBS.
At the time of Agincourt English longbow bodkins couldn't pierce the latest in French military fashion for "Nobs on Horses" and the earth around Aginincourt is supposed to consist of this soil that if it gets churned up when wet turns into mud that is especially sticky to metals.
All the French knights, mostly on foot and looking to cash in on ransoms for the very few English Nobs on location, charge up the narrowing rise churning up the mud like a mini-Somme and in their eagerness to "grab the cash" get bogged. The English then counter-charge and with most of them wearing leather and cloth based armours they slip and slide around and proceed to butcher the French who are stuck up to their waists in full plate armour.
Ehh! Bloody weather!
Soulflame
10-17-2006, 00:36
I lost the very first time I played it, at the preview event. I was actually already winning and they said 'now is the time to strike!' and all when I killed their general. I sent my general in a flanking attack, but apparently he ran into some spears and died, and my entire army (whom stim outnumbered the enemy 3 to 1) routed :p
Patriarch of Constantinople
10-17-2006, 00:46
I lost. my main line was broken and my longbowmen couldnt keep up the pressure. Any tips?
Barkhorn1x
10-17-2006, 01:55
I managed an Average Victory first time out as I got a 5 or 6 units chewed up pretty well. I really like those pole-axe armed English Dismounted Knights - they are good!
Barkhorn.
Beelzebub
10-17-2006, 02:25
I lost. my main line was broken and my longbowmen couldnt keep up the pressure. Any tips?
Use Henry's guard and the billmen unit on the right flank to bolster the line where it starts getting thinned out after using the two reserve units on the left flank to defeat the french rear attack, use them to also reinforce the line.
Overall I thought the demo was pretty good, however, some of the battle animations are quite silly. People finishing each other off with headbutts and guys spinning around like ballerinas in full plate armour... As long as the Ai works in the full game though I may be able to look past these peculiarities.
Kommodus
10-17-2006, 03:28
I lost the first time because I didn't see the French charging from behind (was watching a different part of the field). King Henry's unit basically took a charge from the rear and he died.
SpencerH
10-19-2006, 13:30
How could any experienced player lose without deliberately trying to? All I did the first time I won was to actively defend against the French flanking attack with billmen. The second time through I turned on flaming arrows, directed the arrow fire, and won even easier.
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-19-2006, 14:05
I won off the bat. French charged right into my stakes, the cav did, then as the inf was close, I charge,use archers to shoot their flanks (tatic I learned on RTW MP) and never saw the cav attack from behind, but I barley,won :-).
ProudNerd
10-20-2006, 03:51
I’ve won most times its all about not letting Henry get in trouble since its hard to pull him back without him dying.
The last few I played I went up the huge forested him at the back at the very beginning leave on unit of English knights to delay the French and used a melee first double lien formation. I just sat there with the archers on fire at will and the French who were running the whole way were exhausted as they reached the hill and were cut down in absolute droves since my archers were so high up it was awesome to watch and listen to, the sound of arrows in flight and being fired is perfect and great to listen to as is the sound of the arrow hitting a troop and the death screams as well as the thundering of running or marching infantry the sound works brilliantly.
I noticed the AI is terrible tho in places When I had killed all their infantry the French cav stopped at the road like thing just behind your starting position refusing to advance up the (now covered with corpses) hill and crossbows were a long way off still on the muddy field So I marched down to the foot of the hill were I got my archers to unload on the chivaralic knights and generals bodyguard that were sitting there and the general stayed there not moving until he and his men died from arrows in probably about 2 mins the chivs just stayed in their spot as well then I fired at the chivs which died far more quickly and also didn’t move even tho there was another unit of chivs behind them as well. I crushed them mostly with arrow fire and a bit of melee then the crossbows that hadn’t moved were systematically shot to death with longbows. I hope the AI has improved since that old bet.
Comrade Alexeo
10-20-2006, 06:38
I noticed the AI is terrible tho in places When I had killed all their infantry the French cav stopped at the road like thing just behind your starting position refusing to advance up the (now covered with corpses) hill and crossbows were a long way off still on the muddy field So I marched down to the foot of the hill were I got my archers to unload on the chivaralic knights and generals bodyguard that were sitting there and the general stayed there not moving until he and his men died from arrows in probably about 2 mins the chivs just stayed in their spot as well then I fired at the chivs which died far more quickly and also didn’t move even tho there was another unit of chivs behind them as well. I crushed them mostly with arrow fire and a bit of melee then the crossbows that hadn’t moved were systematically shot to death with longbows. I hope the AI has improved since that old bet.
The demo battles, especially Agincourt, are heavily scripted, and not based off the AI. More than likely, you messed up the timing of the script...
Two days ago I watched the Battle of Agincourt and received a victory without any input whatsoever :2thumbsup:
Today, I decided to see if I could get anything better than an "Average Victory" in Pavia - which I kept getting over and over again - and, thanks to some superb commanding on my part :yes: I did in fact manage to get a "Clear Victory" :2thumbsup:
Silly me, I pressed the "Enter" key before I could printscreen the results, but I did manage to get one immediately afterwards so at least I have a record of how many troops I had left
https://img213.imageshack.us/img213/949/pavia1bq4.jpg
Time for another smiley :2thumbsup:
IPoseTheQuestionYouReturnTheAnswer
10-20-2006, 06:45
I haven't lost Agincourt the two times I played it, but I lost Pavia once or twice. Granted, I hadn't played a Total War game in months up till that point, so I was used to the controls of other RTS games. Now that I'm back into it, Pavia's a snap, too.
Agincourt was real easy the first time. Honestly, I didn't even really do much. Like I said, I haven't played Total War in a while, so I forgot how to set up my troops. It wasn't till the French made contact with my battle line that I realized i set my guys up with the BACKS facing the French. Still won. I don't think I even lost a unit, maybe one Yeomen to that rear cavalry charge. Hell, one of my Yeomen units managed to not only survive a charge from the Chivalric Knights, but actually BEAT them in melee. Wierd. Surprisingly, I almost lost the second time I played. Came out with Francis, a couple units of Yeomen, and one unit of knights.
Pavia's a ton of fun. I didn't really know what I was doing the first two times, but then I got my act togather and never lose it anymore. Pavia is all about the first two or three minutes. If you don't deal with Francis and his cavalry and the Scots Guard quickly enough, the Volgiers and Pikemen can catch you in the rear. Luckily on my third try, the first time I won, Francis died instantly upon making contact with my pikes. Then its just a matter of killing the waves of guys and then booking it across the field at full speed into the cannons.
I've done Pavia twice without losing a single unit. I just finished a game about ten minutes ago. Didn't lose any units, though I almost lost my general. When he was charging the cannons, they shot and NAILED his unit taking them from 25 down to 4 instantly. Yikes.
https://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/inky5/0001.jpg
And ummm, anyone know why the battle screen is all white and stuff?
I thought it was pretty easy, once I had tuned the settings to increase my FPS.
Bob the Insane
10-20-2006, 13:13
I noticed the AI is terrible tho in places When I had killed all their infantry the French cav stopped at the road like thing just behind your starting position refusing to advance up the (now covered with corpses) hill and crossbows were a long way off still on the muddy field So I marched down to the foot of the hill were I got my archers to unload on the chivaralic knights and generals bodyguard that were sitting there and the general stayed there not moving until he and his men died from arrows in probably about 2 mins the chivs just stayed in their spot as well then I fired at the chivs which died far more quickly and also didn’t move even tho there was another unit of chivs behind them as well. I crushed them mostly with arrow fire and a bit of melee then the crossbows that hadn’t moved were systematically shot to death with longbows. I hope the AI has improved since that old bet.
Personally I think this is down to the scripted nature of the battle...
Some enemy units are instructed to move to a certain localation and attack anyone nearby (and thus when you move they tend to just stand around looking stupid). And some enemy units are instructed to attack particular units of yours and will ignore other targets and chase that unit all over the map...
It will be nice if the script of the historical battles is improving in the final release so trying cazy stuff does not break the battle, but I am not judging the final game's normal battle AI on this...
Bombasticus Maximus
10-22-2006, 12:03
I never lost at either of them, agincourt I just used firearrows and stayed in formation then crushed them.
https://img86.imageshack.us/img86/7549/deadgeneralef6.th.jpg (https://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=deadgeneralef6.jpg)
https://img86.imageshack.us/img86/5670/battleresultav2.th.jpg (https://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=battleresultav2.jpg)
At pavia I was just about to win as all the french had left we're crossbow men and the timer ran out so it said a draw. :shame:
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