View Full Version : Banning Trans Fats in New York!?
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-13-2006, 23:57
Hey,
So I was reading in my News Magainze, and saw on the news recently, that NY is banning Trans Fats in their food. I got Mixed Reactions about it. One thing is, why? if people want to kill themselves (liteally) by eating fatty foods and little/no workout, then oh well, it's there choice. But, I don't mind, since I don't notice the Taste. Have you Guys after Ate these Cheese Crackers named Cheez-its (think it the name)? I eat both the Normal ones and 50% less Fat, and do I notice a difference? Yes I do, but it's not a major difference, and I still like the taste from both..
your thoughts??
I heard about that a while ago... did it finally go thru?
The concept is absolutely moronic. Is NYC really such a utopia that they can waste the effort on trying to decide for their residents what they can and can not eat? Isnt there something more worthwhile they can deal with?
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-14-2006, 01:00
Not Sure..
It is moronic. They wasting their time deabting, "oh,lets ban Trans Fat". it like, I don't really care. Foods taste the same or slighty different without them,and I don't eat myself to death,so you know.
yesdachi
10-14-2006, 03:47
I don’t like anyone telling me what I can’t do, don’t restrict my freedom. Inform me, but don’t control me. I’ll make my own decisions and be held accountable for them.
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-14-2006, 04:10
Extacly. If I smoke (which I won't, I don't plan on killing myself by that), that my choice,if I don't, fine. If I want to eat 50 burgers,fine,if not,ok. if I want to step out in front of a train...
you get my point.
Crazed Rabbit
10-14-2006, 07:09
Don't you people get it? The gov't is here to help. They only want what's best for you. They have the resources of many intelligent people who can help them determine a healthy lifestyle, even though in this case its very simple. We all know this stuff is bad. The government is increasing public safety and health, because they know what's best, and they have to prevent people from getting sick and unhealthy, and to prevent unscrupulus food producers from taking advantage of people. We can't be so hung up on trivial 'rights' when our most important is at stake : the right to feel safe and healthy.
Crazed Rabbit
Sasaki Kojiro
10-14-2006, 07:16
Buh, if they were banning rat poison in food you'd have no complaint. The only issue here is whether trans fat is bad enough to be banned, it's not about whether regulation is good (obviously it is).
I don't know any medical data but I seriously doubt trans fat is that bad for you.
Hey, if someone thinks they can make a living by serving rat poison they can go for it- as long as they're upfront about it, I dont care. Of course, I (nor anyone else) would never eat there.
InsaneApache
10-14-2006, 08:09
Buh, if they were banning rat poison in food you'd have no complaint. The only issue here is whether trans fat is bad enough to be banned, it's not about whether regulation is good (obviously it is).
I don't know any medical data but I seriously doubt trans fat is that bad for you.
Is it's hydrogenated fats then they are very bad for you.
What do trans fatty acids do to us?
Among other results, researchers have found that trans fatty acids significantly raise LDL cholesterol levels, the bad cholesterol, while lowering the HDL levels, the good cholesterol. In the Framingham Heart Study (a 40 year study covering 5,209 individuals living in Massachusetts) high LDL cholesterol levels combined with low HDL levels was indicative of coronary heart disease risk.
With all this information about cholesterol and heart problems, why does the food industry use hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated fats in food products?
Plain and simple reason: hydrogenation extends the supermarket shelf life of products.
http://cyberparent.com/nutrition/hydrogenated.htm
Now there's a surprise!
Sasaki Kojiro
10-14-2006, 08:24
Hey, if someone thinks they can make a living by serving rat poison they can go for it- as long as they're upfront about it, I dont care. Of course, I (nor anyone else) would never eat there.
Pshh, if it said "Tetramethylenedisulfotetramine" in the list of ingredients you'd still buy it.
Nah, 'methylene' is a pretty good giveaway that you probably dont want to be eating it. :wink:
...and 'sulfo' is none too good either.
Major Robert Dump
10-14-2006, 12:40
NYC should just ban fat people instead
To those in opposition to the fat ban, where do you draw the line ? Marijuananananana ? Crack ? Tea ? Sea biscuits ? Rat poison ?
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-14-2006, 14:31
Buh, if they were banning rat poison in food you'd have no complaint. The only issue here is whether trans fat is bad enough to be banned, it's not about whether regulation is good (obviously it is).
I don't know any medical data but I seriously doubt trans fat is that bad for you.
you seriously doubt? No Offense, but what do you think happens when you gouge yourself with tons of fatty foods with a good workout reigme?
Xiahou, do you always read and analyze the entire EULA before you click that you agree before installing software?
Do you always read about all the ingredients every time before you buy some food? And yes, I mean always because they may change over time("we put some rat poison in there to enhance the taste"). ~;)
Mithrandir
10-14-2006, 15:59
NYC should just ban fat people instead
:laugh4:
Proletariat
10-14-2006, 16:06
It's really unAmerican for the government to tell people how to live their lives. But Americans do unAmerican things all the time, and sometimes it's good. I think this is pretty stupid, tho.
The people who make billions off junk food and dishing out heart disease all over the country are still not making as much money as the people who are raking in billions convincing the country (and world) that everyone here is fat. We're no more fat than any other western country, it's all hype, we're just obsessed by weight loss more than others and it really has more to do with the market for it than anything substantial.
Isn't New York one of the slimmest least fat cities in america? Good policy at the wrong place, there is nothing wrong with forcing companies to produce quality food, or at least raise some consiousness about truely bad food. I am sure the macDonalds and the other's are screaming bloody murder and would be devastated that they can no longer make money by stuffing people's main arteries and making the rest of the community pay for the treatment, but I don't really feel sorry for them.
We're no more fat than any other western country
Oh you are....
InsaneApache
10-14-2006, 16:52
We're no more fat than any other western country
Oh you are....
What he said. :laugh4:
Isn't New York one of the slimmest least fat cities in america? Good policy at the wrong place, there is nothing wrong with forcing companies to produce quality food, or at least raise some consiousness about truely bad food. I am sure the macDonalds and the other's are screaming bloody murder and would be devastated that they can no longer make money by stuffing people's main arteries and making the rest of the community pay for the treatment, but I don't really feel sorry for them.
We're no more fat than any other western country
Oh you are....
You better watch out, you're in danger of being labeled a liberal with talk like that.
You better watch out, you're in danger of being labeled a liberal with talk like that.
Well I'll take that, companies have respondibilties like everyone else. MacDonalds is a great example of a rogue company within our economies, they do nothing but harming people and couldn't care less. Every excess is undeseriable, be it Walmart or Macdonalds, they just take more then they give.
Proletariat
10-14-2006, 17:28
It's a crock, I used to believe it, until about last week when I picked up that book Louis recommended, American Vertigo. Go to the Borders Books or whatever's near you, and read pages 94-97. He mentions a couple professors who challenged the idea as well, Paul Campos and Glenn Gaesser. So take it from a French Euroweenie if you don't believe me. Americans being fat is just funny joke material, like Anglo dental care. It's a canard, and I still like jokes about Americans being fat as much as they next person, don't get me wrong.
Come here sometime, you will see what I saw whenever I go abroad to another western country. Fat people are everywhere.
Anyway, NYC does seem like a slim place, but in LA even their junk food is healthy. Eating at McDonald's out there seems like social suicide if you're caught. Just going from what I've seen, having been in both cities over the last few weeks.
Strike For The South
10-14-2006, 17:31
In the chat one time one of our resident canucks Gorebag said there larges were our mediums at McDonalds. I cried for about 4 minutes.
Proletariat
10-14-2006, 17:35
SFTS, did you know you live in one of the top five fattest cities in the US? You're making the rest of us look bad, put down your Whattaburger and eat a carrot!
Go to the Borders Books or whatever's near you, and read pages 94-97. He mentions a couple professors who challenged the idea as well, Paul Campos and Glenn Gaesser. So take it from a French Euroweenie if you don't believe me
Challenging things is a very french thing to do, these people will debate everything just for the sake of it, for weeks, they aren't unlike americans when it comes to that.
Obsesity is a 'lower class' problem, and america being big as it is has many different, well cultures. It is just true that you will hardly find any fat people in france, a truth that baffles us all considering their diet. But in some parts in america it is a major problem, and I am one of those euro's that just happen to find america a pretty nice place for some reason, but there really is a major difference. People in America are a lot fatter, it just can't be denied.
Ser Clegane
10-14-2006, 17:58
The view that Americans are "fatter" than people from other countries might be based on the "fact" (actually I should not call it "fact" as I do not have any numbers to support this, just my own subjective observations) that there seems to be a relatively high number of extremely obese people in the US that catch the visitor's eye more than a "normal" obsese person would do.
On average Americans might be just as "fat" or "slim" as Europeans, but as with a lot of other things it is the extremes that make an impression.
Kanamori
10-14-2006, 18:43
I don’t like anyone telling me what I can’t do, don’t restrict my freedom. Inform me, but don’t control me. I’ll make my own decisions and be held accountable for them.
Agreed.
To those in opposition to the fat ban, where do you draw the line ? Marijuananananana ? Crack ? Tea ? Sea biscuits ? Rat poison ?
Rat poison, and some rat poisons are not bad at all for humans.~;) Not knowing exactly where to draw the line does not invalidate the reason we ban things like arsenic. The things are in entirely different realms of harm.
You better watch out, you're in danger of being labeled a liberal with talk like that.
There's nothing at all liberal about telling people what they can order in a restaurant, that's an oxymoron.
I am sure the macDonalds and the other's are screaming bloody murder and would be devastated that they can no longer make money by stuffing people's main arteries and making the rest of the community pay for the treatment, but I don't really feel sorry for them.
Actually, they've been working to get rid of trans fats in their food making process for a while. The mass of shifting opinion is against their product, so they are changing their food in order to keep selling it.
Obsesity is a 'lower class' problem, and america being big as it is has many different, well cultures. It is just true that you will hardly find any fat people in france, a truth that baffles us all considering their diet. But in some parts in america it is a major problem, and I am one of those euro's that just happen to find america a pretty nice place for some reason, but there really is a major difference. People in America are a lot fatter, it just can't be denied.
If people want to be fat, let them. I don't understand when people care so much about how other people treat their own bodies, it's not yours and they do it to themselves. (Not a response to you necessarily, just that it is common)
Banquo's Ghost
10-14-2006, 18:53
The view that Americans are "fatter" than people from other countries might be based on the "fact" (actually I should not call it "fact" as I do not have any numbers to support this, just my own subjective observations) that there seems to be a relatively high number of extremely obese people in the US that catch the visitor's eye more than a "normal" obsese person would do.
On average Americans might be just as "fat" or "slim" as Europeans, but as with a lot of other things it is the extremes that make an impression.
Some research figures (http://www.iotf.org/database/GlobalAdultsAugust2005.asp) to help inform the discussion. Assuming one accepts BMI as a reasonable index of obesity (which is very debatable).
:bow:
Tribesman
10-14-2006, 18:54
The view that Americans are "fatter" than people from other countries might be based on the "fact" (actually I should not call it "fact" as I do not have any numbers to support this, just my own subjective observations)
Have some numbers then .
http://www.iotf.org/database/GlobalAdultsAugust2005.asp
Banquo's Ghost
10-14-2006, 18:56
Have some numbers then .
http://www.iotf.org/database/GlobalAdultsAugust2005.asp
Ha! Beat you by a minute, Tribes'!! :bounce:
Tribesman
10-14-2006, 18:58
Hey Banquo , I was busy giving the kids bread and dripping to eat .
Banquo's Ghost
10-14-2006, 19:01
Hey Banquo , I was busy giving the kids bread and dripping to eat .
Crikey, you're posh. We only have dripping on feast days. :wink:
Rat poison, and some rat poisons are not bad at all for humans.~;) Not knowing exactly where to draw the line does not invalidate the reason we ban things like arsenic. The things are in entirely different realms of harm.
Clearly you have a guidline. Sounds like a good one. Different levels of harm. Thats a nice start when talking about things that the government should and should not restrict. I only ask to see if we have consistency in application. Its when you take a simple yet wonderful idea such as "don't restrict my freedoms" and apply it to the complexities that exist in real world situations that things become interesting.
"Don't restric my freedoms" is great in theory, but I suspect the number of true practioners is farily slim relative to those who merely use the slogan to voice their general dismay with the current state.
There's nothing at all liberal about telling people what they can order in a restaurant, that's an oxymoron.
Tell that to the conservative brew. If its something they're against, you're a liberal.
Strike For The South
10-14-2006, 20:12
SFTS, did you know you live in one of the top five fattest cities in the US? You're making the rest of us look bad, put down your Whattaburger and eat a carrot!
Correction I live in THE fattest city in teh USA. I'll tell you right now it isn't the Whataburger it's the Mexion food its damn good but its a fried heart attack.
Xiahou, do you always read and analyze the entire EULA before you click that you agree before installing software?
Do you always read about all the ingredients every time before you buy some food? And yes, I mean always because they may change over time("we put some rat poison in there to enhance the taste"). ~;)
You're missing the point. No business would get away with putting tetramethylenedisulfotetramine in their food in the US- with or without a government ban on it. Why do I say this? The thread itself is an example of why- it wasn't the government that came up with the idea that trans fat is a health concern and it wasnt the government that got companies to list trans fat on their nutrition info(the government did recently mandate it- but they were all already doing it by that time anyhow). It's consumers and consumer watchdogs that are the proactive ones who go out and find problems like this. Government beauocracies are by default reactive- responding after the fact. Sure, they'll ban rat poion in twinkies- but only after 100 people have died from eating them, everyone knows about it, and the company has gone out of business.
EULAs are another kettle of fish altogether. I'm not aware of much case law, but I suspect most of the bizarre stuff in them is pretty unenforcible. For example, if in the middle of of 30 pages of a EULA it states 'by accepting, you agree to give the company ownership of your house', the company wouldn't have much luck if it took you to court to evict you. :wink:
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-14-2006, 21:35
Don't you people get it? The gov't is here to help. They only want what's best for you. They have the resources of many intelligent people who can help them determine a healthy lifestyle, even though in this case its very simple. We all know this stuff is bad. The government is increasing public safety and health, because they know what's best, and they have to prevent people from getting sick and unhealthy, and to prevent unscrupulus food producers from taking advantage of people. We can't be so hung up on trivial 'rights' when our most important is at stake : the right to feel safe and healthy.
Crazed Rabbit
I like to say something about this.
Dude, We Don't Need the Goverment to come and make decsions for us. I hope you all realize that. If you can't sit down, read the food Labels, eat heatlhy and exerciese, like I do, then you oging to be Fat. If you do all the stuff what I said (and do), you proably going to be fine. Working otu 1 hour a day may be good, but when you eat 5 hamburgers the same day, and 3 candy bars with 45 grams of sugar each, then we got a ploblem..
I like to say something about this.
Dude, We Don't Need the Goverment to come and make decsions for us. I hope you all realize that. If you can't sit down, read the food Labels, eat heatlhy and exerciese, like I do, then you oging to be Fat. If you do all the stuff what I said (and do), you proably going to be fine. Working otu 1 hour a day may be good, but when you eat 5 hamburgers the same day, and 3 candy bars with 45 grams of sugar each, then we got a ploblem..
*Please tell that Crazy Rabbit more about individual responsibility and how his crazy right wing love of the nanny state is so misguided.
*I'm looking forward to the {BHC}KingWarman888 era.
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-15-2006, 00:12
* Whyidie is correct on that. If you Rely on the Goverment to make descions about what you eat, well, you need some help.
* Thanks.
* Whyidie is correct on that. If you Rely on the Goverment to make descions about what you eat, well, you need some help.
* Thanks.
~:cheers:
Crazed Rabbit
10-15-2006, 02:19
*cough*sarcasm*cough*
CR
Shaka_Khan
10-15-2006, 02:45
I think it's worth it to take away the freedom of what to eat. Think of all the good-looking people you'd see in NY (because I remember how most of the New Yorkers looked the last time I was there). :hide:
Crazed Rabbit
10-15-2006, 02:48
Alright, from now one you'll only eat plain outmeal, vegetables and soy products. You will have healthy meals, which you seem to value above freedom. Also, you will be forced to exercise every day for an hour.
Crazed Rabbit
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-15-2006, 04:28
~:cheers:
:2thumbsup: , but I don't drink Beer, I'm addiceted to Milk :idea2: :2thumbsup:
k,Back on Topic:
lol No One Said to stop Eating Hamburgers and shit.It just Amazing how People Rely on the Goverment to tell them what they should eat, and what they should,even though every on this fourm knows how to follow a healthy life style, but no offense, but I bet half of them don't.
Major Robert Dump
10-15-2006, 08:52
They should also ban excessive carbohydrates in food as well, because those and trans fats mix together to make people get bad hearts, or get front butts which can lead to bad hearts, and then my insurance premiums go up because Fatty McGee and his two butts just had to get the add-a-piece at long john silvers. If the governement is going to send people to jail for having marijuana, or, say, interfere with my ability to find a temporary female companion to perform certain oral services for me at market cost, then the government should just ban everything outright if it causes, or can cause, or at one time was rumored to have caused, something bad to happen to someone somewhere at sometime. Despite what you guys say, this is very American. Now excuse me while I go buy beer for some 19 year old girls.
and then my insurance premiums go up because Fatty McGee and his two butts just had to get the add-a-piece at long john silvers.They should allow insurance companies to charge higher premiums/deductables to people who are obese, smoke, ect. That way, the costs of their decisions will be borne by them and not shouldered by people who live healthy lifestyles.
Major Robert Dump
10-15-2006, 09:26
I agree completely with you on that, but they already do it to a certain extent.
It seems the exception to the rule is the type of clearinghouse insurance you get with large companies who pay most or part of the insurance premiums. If they pay all the costs, the company slowly scales back what sorts of things they will pay for to meet risingt costs. If they pay for partial they slowly scale back how much they pay to cover rising costs. The better alternative in both these cases would be to make everyone come take a damn physical, and then charge them appropriately, but this would also open up a whole new can of worms in terms of fraud, eqaulity and "civil" liberties.
Insurance is a tricky business, as "rising costs" could actually mean operating costs, salaries and poor business planning, not just payouts to physicians and pharmacies.
And on a lmore serious note, Trans Fats keeps the population at managable levels. Its really unfortunate it hasnt been around longer then we wouldn't have all these silly baby boomers and their parents sucking up SS and medicare funds while driving poorly, having sex with their wrinkly no-nos and whining about the cost of butter.
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-15-2006, 18:19
They should also ban excessive carbohydrates in food as well, because those and trans fats mix together to make people get bad hearts, or get front butts which can lead to bad hearts, and then my insurance premiums go up because Fatty McGee and his two butts just had to get the add-a-piece at long john silvers. If the governement is going to send people to jail for having marijuana, or, say, interfere with my ability to find a temporary female companion to perform certain oral services for me at market cost, then the government should just ban everything outright if it causes, or can cause, or at one time was rumored to have caused, something bad to happen to someone somewhere at sometime. Despite what you guys say, this is very American. Now excuse me while I go buy beer for some 19 year old girls.
It's Called, You-Need-The Goverment-To-Think-For-You-Cause-You-To-Stupid-to-Read-Food-Labels, (directed that to your post,not you). If You Rely on the Goverment to do this for you, You pretty much Stupid then, I hate to say it, but it's true. It's not hard reading a food label,come on. I can understand soem 70 year old or some dumb 12 year old who likes to play games all day, having touble, but a normal Amercian should not have touble. if it has,14 grams of a Fat, for Example. First off, How much junk do you eat a day? Me, not alot. Do you Excerise Alot, me, Normal Amount. So if you say Yes,alot,to my first question, and Say "little or no" to second, then you should not eat it till you start doing a heathly Lifestyle. It's pretty sad how people want the goverment to ban things for them, when they can just sit down,shut up, and think.
Papewaio
10-16-2006, 00:29
I agree with Major Robert Dump-san and Xiahou-san. It should be on the insurance form,
Are you a smoker? yes/no
Are you a tran-fat eater? yes/no
We should extend it to plane tickets (bigger take up more room) so your luggage total should include the persons weight, schooling ...obese kids turn into obese adults who then die sooner so the society that pays for their education gets less benefit... imagine sending someone to school until they are 18 to have then die of a heart attack at 40... you lose half the working life out of them... and probably don't get a particularly good performance out of them.
How many labels have trans-fat on it? The buyer can only know so much... so have the government make it mandatory that the products are labeled as such.
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-16-2006, 02:22
I agree with Major Robert Dump-san and Xiahou-san. It should be on the insurance form,
Are you a smoker? yes/no
Are you a tran-fat eater? yes/no
We should extend it to plane tickets (bigger take up more room) so your luggage total should include the persons weight, schooling ...obese kids turn into obese adults who then die sooner so the society that pays for their education gets less benefit... imagine sending someone to school until they are 18 to have then die of a heart attack at 40... you lose half the working life out of them... and probably don't get a particularly good performance out of them.
How many labels have trans-fat on it? The buyer can only know so much... so have the government make it mandatory that the products are labeled as such.
Do you Like Junk Food? Yes/No
Do you eat Bad Foods Yes/no
The Dumbest Idea I ever heard. You people really like the Feds to step in? Hm, dude, I see trans fats on alot of Labels. Try looknig sometime. If you to stupid to actually eat right, and if you need the Goverment and Insurance companies and schools to start steping in, then we got a ploblem. Major one. I know my Limit on how much Junk I can Eat, and By the Way, I eat alot, yet I'm Heathly and Skinny, Hmmmmmm, I wonder why. Yes, you do lose half their working life when they die at 40, but it's their own fault when they don't take care of their health.
Proletariat
10-16-2006, 02:34
Do you Like Junk Food? Yes/No
Do you eat Bad Foods Yes/no
The Dumbest Idea I ever heard. You people really like the Feds to step in? Hm, dude, I see trans fats on alot of Labels. Try looknig sometime. If you to stupid to actually eat right, and if you need the Goverment and Insurance companies and schools to start steping in, then we got a ploblem. Major one. I know my Limit on how much Junk I can Eat, and By the Way, I eat alot, yet I'm Heathly and Skinny, Hmmmmmm, I wonder why. Yes, you do lose half their working life when they die at 40, but it's their own fault when they don't take care of their health.
Uhm, he was talking about insurance, which isn't Federal last time I looked into it... The labels was another issue.
Papewaio
10-16-2006, 02:51
I'm talking about taking it to the next step... user pays, bigger users should pay more.
Papewaio
10-16-2006, 03:11
Do you Like Junk Food? Yes/No
Do you eat Bad Foods Yes/no
The Dumbest Idea I ever heard. You people really like the Feds to step in? Hm, dude, I see trans fats on alot of Labels. Try looknig sometime. If you to stupid to actually eat right, and if you need the Goverment and Insurance companies and schools to start steping in, then we got a ploblem. Major one. I know my Limit on how much Junk I can Eat, and By the Way, I eat alot, yet I'm Heathly and Skinny, Hmmmmmm, I wonder why. Yes, you do lose half their working life when they die at 40, but it's their own fault when they don't take care of their health.
I'm talking about user pays. Seems like you want a federal government that pays for everything.
a) Insurance companies.
b) Insurance companies already do ask lifestyle questions. Such as are you a smoker. They do this because smokers cost them more.
c) Airplane companies.
d) Airplane companies already charge for multiple seats for obese individuals. They do this because fat people take up more seats.
e) Free education.
f) Free education ain't free. It is a reciprocal arrangement in which society invests in you and expects you to be a better worker-bee for the colony er better citizen for the society. Obviously if you work a shorter period of time society gets less dividends from the investment so it shouldn't be expected to invest as much in the individual in the first place.
Tribesman
10-16-2006, 03:16
We should extend it to plane tickets
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
guess the nationilty of every single person I saw having to wait for the next plane (or multiples thereof if it was a big group of tourists)during this summer .
Some were so frigging fat that they couldn't even fit in the planes , and had to get the boat instead .:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Papewaio
10-16-2006, 03:32
Well if they get a boat they should get a discount as they are supplying their own floatation device. But the ship company better have a disclaimer saying that they are not responsible for any sharp barbs from other patrons or japanese research vessels.
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-16-2006, 04:04
I'm talking about user pays. Seems like you want a federal government that pays for everything.
a) Insurance companies.
b) Insurance companies already do ask lifestyle questions. Such as are you a smoker. They do this because smokers cost them more.
c) Airplane companies.
d) Airplane companies already charge for multiple seats for obese individuals. They do this because fat people take up more seats.
e) Free education.
f) Free education ain't free. It is a reciprocal arrangement in which society invests in you and expects you to be a better worker-bee for the colony er better citizen for the society. Obviously if you work a shorter period of time society gets less dividends from the investment so it shouldn't be expected to invest as much in the individual in the first place.
Really? I wasn't. It Seems like you Want a Goverment to Make the "tough" life descions for you.
I know he was Talking about Insurance, I was going back and forth people :inquisitive:
Papewaio
10-16-2006, 04:19
BTW do your local labels come with the amount of
Omega-3/Mono/Saturated/Trans fats as a single quantity or as separate items on the food list?
BTW do your local labels come with the amount of
Omega-3/Mono/Saturated/Trans fats as a single quantity or as separate items on the food list?
Here it says only: "Fett : xxx g" so I would assume single quantity.
It's mostly single quantities.
I have seen a division between carbohydrates and sugar once but only once so far.
Of the four you mention above I only know Omega-3 = good, Saturated = not so good, maybe we can make a food ingredients explanation thread to reduce bad eating habits among orgahs.:idea2: :2thumbsup:
What about a taxation instead of banning it?
If you want to eat unhealthy, that's fine, but you're going to pay.
Consider it as a contribution for 1) the cost of the treatment you'll need later on 2) the risk of being no more able to work and thus no more being able to contribute to society in a (economically speaking) usefull way.
So you keep your freedom, but since exercising your freedom in that particular way (i.e. eating a lot of unhealthy food) causes damage to society, you'll have to pay a little extra.
Sounds fair enough to me.
That would be the first step down a very slippery slope.
If you are taxed by risk, how long before other things are added to the list? Things like driving, going on a trip, picking up medicines at the pharmacy, etc.
Wouldn't be long before you had a tax on breathing, after all, with all the smog, you're risking your life.
What about a taxation instead of banning it?
If you want to eat unhealthy, that's fine, but you're going to pay.
You mean like €23/$29 for a pizza or €9/$11 for a small whopper meal?
yesdachi
10-16-2006, 14:21
I noticed yesterday at the store that Cheetos has a “No Trans Fat” label on the top corner, I promptly bought a bag. I feel healthier already. :2thumbsup:
My point is that some companies are using it as a marketing hook (and that they are delicious :wink: ).
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-16-2006, 14:24
BTW do your local labels come with the amount of
Omega-3/Mono/Saturated/Trans fats as a single quantity or as separate items on the food list?
Hm, you people still want a Tax, Insurance raises,etc.... :no:
Yea Papewaio they do
For Example, on my Extra Butter Popcorn I was looknig at,at my school (mind you,I actually check, don't rely on the goverment or insurance to tax/raise things)
Fats 14 G (grams)
Satured 6 Grams
MonoSaturated 2 Grams
Poly 0.5 Grams
Trans Fat 1 gram
Omega 3- 0
there you go, actually label.,, and I see that alot, so can't say there "not much on labels"..
Kralizec
10-16-2006, 15:58
You mean like €23/$29 for a pizza or €9/$11 for a small whopper meal?
The justification for a fat tax is that everybody pays for healthcare, but that some deliberately engage in unhealthy habits such as eating grotesque amounts of hamburgers. I actually wouldn't mind paying more for my whopper (or kebab, yummy) if it meant that my health care contribution went down. People who eat fastfood sparringly will be off cheaper.
Of course, fat chance (pun intended) that a government will actually lower health care taxes if they decide to introduce a fat tax ~:rolleyes:
Blodrast
10-16-2006, 16:19
That would be the first step down a very slippery slope.
If you are taxed by risk, how long before other things are added to the list? Things like driving, going on a trip, picking up medicines at the pharmacy, etc.
Wouldn't be long before you had a tax on breathing, after all, with all the smog, you're risking your life.
but, but, isn't that exactly what they're already doing to cigarettes and alcohol?
So, afaict, we already are on that slippery slope.
Let me rephrase then.
This would be another step on a very, very slippery slope. So far, we haven't slipped, but you never know what happenes with the next step.
Besides, I'm not sure that tobacco and alcohol are taxed for similar reasons, personally, it's more to do with profit. Tobacco and alchohol companies have massive profits, so the goverment wants a cut.
edyzmedieval
10-16-2006, 16:28
If they ban fat foods, then the Fitness Centres and Doctors will remain without a job...
Wouldn't be long before you had a tax on breathing, after all, with all the smog, you're risking your life.
:laugh4:
USA and Australia do indeed put much on their food labels. Back in Norway it is sorely missing. It only mentions fat = xx g …
Oh and BTW those prices I posted are the actual prices on said products here in Norway.
Blodrast
10-16-2006, 18:49
Let me rephrase then.
This would be another step on a very, very slippery slope. So far, we haven't slipped, but you never know what happenes with the next step.
Besides, I'm not sure that tobacco and alcohol are taxed for similar reasons, personally, it's more to do with profit. Tobacco and alchohol companies have massive profits, so the goverment wants a cut.
Heh, sadly, I am pretty sure that junk food makes a pretty penny, too. :skull:
I am not sure either what the real reason why cigs & alcohol are taxed is, but I was under the impression that this was the excuse at least :2thumbsup:
Or maybe because they are considered "luxury items", perhaps ? While it would be pretty hard to justify including burgers into the "luxury" category - unless it's shark burgers, or dolphin burgers, or panda burgers...
Major Robert Dump
10-17-2006, 11:14
Actually, this is no different than banning marijuana. good luck NYC, I think its all quite funny.
Actually, this is no different than banning marijuana. good luck NYC, I think its all quite funny.
Now you're talking...
KukriKhan
10-18-2006, 13:40
Actually, this is no different than banning marijuana. good luck NYC, I think its all quite funny.
This got me thinking; the mob could sieze this as a money-making opportunity...
"Pssst - hey buddy, got a sizzlin' hot transfat burger right here for ya" (opens oversized trenchcoat; steam rises). :)
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-19-2006, 14:12
lol Khan,good one..
I think this is just dumb. Drug Ban? Who Cares, I don't do drugs. Trans Fat ban in New York? I prefabley don't care. The Goverment wants (or city gov anyhow) to step in, and make decsions for people who need "help" eating the right foods and such.
In Fact, there should be no Ban, but Mandatory Health Class for Obese People all over the country..
yesdachi
10-19-2006, 15:14
In Fact, there should be no Ban, but Mandatory Health Class for Obese People all over the country..
Health class or gym class!:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Health class or gym class!:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
And teachers should have permission to use this: :whip:
And if that doesn't help, send them on a mandatory trip to Ethiopia...
yesdachi
10-19-2006, 15:42
And teachers should have permission to use this: :whip:
And if that doesn't help, send them on a mandatory trip to Ethiopia...
Warning to the Ethiopians: RUN! The hunger pains those fat Americans will suffer from will cause hallucinations, they will think you look like some kind of food! Some of the bigger ones could put two or three of you in their mouths at once. RUN!
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-19-2006, 15:44
Both Dachi,,
Send them to Africa, show them all the kids and families that are dying from hunger,then that might make the people stop eating that much..
Don Corleone
10-19-2006, 16:20
I think it's perfectly reasonable that people should have the right to determine their own diet, if they're responsible for paying the financial cost of their own poor decisions. Otherwise, your insurance company should be able to raise your rates or the government should be able to tax you for unhealthy behavior at a higher rate than the average Joe. If you're self-employed or are frugal enough to save and pay your own health care costs out of pocket, have a pair of double-quarter-pounders at every meal for all I care.
I do find the allowable sadism towards fat people in our society somewhat puzzling. You'd never be able to get away with laughing at somebody with Cystic Fibrosis, Muscular Dystrophy or Down's Syndrome, (at least not among all but the most socially degenerate), but here we all are... yucking it up with the idea of chasing fatties around with a whip or shipping them off to Ethiopia and joking about them resorting to canabalism, when there's plenty of evidence that genetics plays one of the primary roles in obesity. We all know people that eat junk/drink lots of beer, don't exercise yet remain light. Yet when the reverse is true, people that eat average amounts retain extra fat stores, we ridicule them and declare it to be some sort of character failing and vilainize them.
Yes, obese people contributed to their own condition through their behaviors, but how many of us do things that we know we shouldn't? Because our foolish behaviors don't result in such obvious signs of stigma, we duck that lash. What's more, there's a lot of psychological evidence that indicates two of the main reasons obese people overeat is lack of self esteem and self-comforting in times of stress. Do you really think public ridicule and constant humiliation are going to help in that regard?
Oh, who am I kidding... let's get the fatties some more! Maybe we could solve the energy crisis by taking everyone 5% over their target BMI or more, chain them to a converyer and sticking a bucket of fried chicken on a fishing line
in front of them... :elephant::whip: Hahahahahaha!!! Those fatties will run and run...just to get the chicken!!! Hahahahaha!!!! Stupid fatties!!! Hahahahaha!!!! :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
:no:
On the other hand: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
:shame:
yesdachi
10-19-2006, 16:56
Rough morning on the playground I guess.
Don Corleone
10-19-2006, 17:20
Have some numbers then .
http://www.iotf.org/database/GlobalAdultsAugust2005.asp
It would appear that American men are not the fattest in Western society. Adding the 25% to 30% and the 30% category together yields the following results (fattest men in the world):
(American men placed 11th).
Tonga
Nauru
Albania
Croatia
Slovakia (Trebisov)
Germany
French Polynesia
Czech Republic
Greece
Cyprus
USA
Norway (Limited area)
Qatar
Saudi Arabia
Malta
Ranking them again just based on extreme fat (30%+ only) again put America at 11th on the list, England, Germany and Scotland were 14, 15 and 16... the difference between them being only 1.6%.
American women on the other hand, did even better, they were 19th on the total overweight list (interestingly, Middle Eastern countries and Mexico dominated this list) and 16th on the extremely fat list.
In general, American men tended to lead, but only slightly so, other Western countries in both total fat and extreme fat, American women led Western women signficantly in total fat and extreme fat. American men, and western men in general, however, were clearly higher in the ranks then American women in particular and western women in general.
By the way, what's up with Greece? Apparently, you don't feed your women, because the men eat all their food! The men were at close to the top of the list and the women were very low, resulting in the largest delta, by sex. Damn, I knew I should have moved to Greece when I was single! :idea2:
Another interesting trend... countries that tend towards chauvansim, especially Latin American countries and Middle Eastern countries, come out very extreme in the reverse delta between sexes, because many of them didn't bother to report of their men!!! Talk about the life....
Don Corleone
10-19-2006, 17:39
Last post on this, I promise. But isn't BMI a pretty lousy way to indicate 'fattiness' or overall health? A power lifter comes off pretty poorly but a severe alcoholic that has moved on to hard liquours will come off pretty good. It doesn't account for muscle or fat, it treats all weight as bad. I also think their ranges are somewhat skewed. They put a male standing 5'9" tall (1.753 meters) weighing 125 lbs (56.7 kg) as healthy. Personally, I think they'd be on bedrest. The upper limit for said male to be healthy is 165lbs (74.84 kg). It just seems as though the people that develop BMI are deliberately skewing the data to make people seem heavy.... I would argue somebody 5'9" that weighs 170lbs (77.1 kg) would be pretty healthy, but they have them listed as overweight.
Big King Sanctaphrax
10-19-2006, 17:50
They put a male standing 5'9" tall (1.753 meters) weighing 125 lbs (56.7 kg) as healthy. Personally, I think they'd be on bedrest.
I'm 5'11" and 125 lbs. I don't starve myself or anything-far from it, I eat what I consider to be a pretty decent diet. Just naturally skinny, I've never been able to put weight on. My father was pretty much the same height and weight at my age, so I figure it's a genetic thing.
Don Corleone
10-19-2006, 17:51
I'm 5'11" and 125 lbs. I'm perfectly healthy. I don't starve myself or anything-far from it, I eat what I consider to be a pretty decent diet. Just naturally skinny, I've never been able to put weight on. My father was pretty much the same height and weight at my age, so I figure it's a genetic thing.
At your age, I can understand it. Your father on the other hand is downright amazing. Does he run marathons or that sort of thing? I know that generally speaking, it's healthier to be leaner, but I'd think there comes a lower limit. Apparently no...
Big King Sanctaphrax
10-19-2006, 17:53
He was the same height and weight when he was my age-18. He's a bit heavier now. ~;)
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-19-2006, 19:21
I'm 5'11" and 125 lbs. I don't starve myself or anything-far from it, I eat what I consider to be a pretty decent diet. Just naturally skinny, I've never been able to put weight on. My father was pretty much the same height and weight at my age, so I figure it's a genetic thing.
Excuse me Language but Damn it King, you about the same stats of me lol. I'm 6' 0'', 130-135 pounds, you just 5-10 pounds less and a inch short lol.
I am skinny to.I eat Healthy, with the occsonliy piece of chocatle or cookie every other day, along with doing my exerciese, I'm skinny :-)
Well I bet those Norwegians that put our nation in the place just below USA is more or less like me. BIG VIKINGS!!1111one :laugh4:
BMI?? Come on... I have a BMI of 28 but I can benchpress 1.5 times my own weight and can still run a decent 100 yards. I have since childhood built explosive musculature and can jump 2.83m (9.28 feet) standing still.
Norwegians fat... :furious3:
BMI is renowned for not being a particularly brilliant way of defining who is overweight or obese.
e.g. it identifies most professional athletes as obese.
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-19-2006, 22:22
I had a BMI or whatever of 11.5, I could be wrong though, not sure..
BMI is renowned for not being a particularly brilliant way of defining who is overweight or obese.
e.g. it identifies most professional athletes as obese.
A lot of American athletes ARE overweight. I'm 6', 208lbs. In most positions in football I'd be considered severly undersized. Doesn't matter if its muscle or fat, if you're 6' you're carrying more weight than necessary if you're 225 +.
Kralizec
10-19-2006, 23:41
I think it's perfectly reasonable that people should have the right to determine their own diet, if they're responsible for paying the financial cost of their own poor decisions. Otherwise, your insurance company should be able to raise your rates or the government should be able to tax you for unhealthy behavior at a higher rate than the average Joe. If you're self-employed or are frugal enough to save and pay your own health care costs out of pocket, have a pair of double-quarter-pounders at every meal for all I care.
I do find the allowable sadism towards fat people in our society somewhat puzzling. You'd never be able to get away with laughing at somebody with Cystic Fibrosis, Muscular Dystrophy or Down's Syndrome, (at least not among all but the most socially degenerate), but here we all are... yucking it up with the idea of chasing fatties around with a whip or shipping them off to Ethiopia and joking about them resorting to canabalism, when there's plenty of evidence that genetics plays one of the primary roles in obesity. We all know people that eat junk/drink lots of beer, don't exercise yet remain light. Yet when the reverse is true, people that eat average amounts retain extra fat stores, we ridicule them and declare it to be some sort of character failing and vilainize them.
Yes, obese people contributed to their own condition through their behaviors, but how many of us do things that we know we shouldn't? Because our foolish behaviors don't result in such obvious signs of stigma, we duck that lash. What's more, there's a lot of psychological evidence that indicates two of the main reasons obese people overeat is lack of self esteem and self-comforting in times of stress. Do you really think public ridicule and constant humiliation are going to help in that regard?
Oh, who am I kidding... let's get the fatties some more! Maybe we could solve the energy crisis by taking everyone 5% over their target BMI or more, chain them to a converyer and sticking a bucket of fried chicken on a fishing line
in front of them... :elephant::whip: Hahahahahaha!!! Those fatties will run and run...just to get the chicken!!! Hahahahaha!!!! Stupid fatties!!! Hahahahaha!!!! :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Excellent point, Don Corleone.
We should be able to make fun of all those other people too :furious3:
Sarcasm!
or is it?
Divinus Arma
10-20-2006, 01:17
Another examples of the "freedoms" poffered by liberalism.
An essential component of liberty is the God-given right to destroy one's self. Under the auspices of "personal safety" a government can institute tyrannical behavioral controls. The food you eat, the activities you engage in: all are open for regulation when the right to die or harm one's self is infringed upon.
I hate this about religious nuts and I hate this about liberals. It is the ultimate social control under disguise of benevolence. The aura of self-righteousness is a mask for evil.
Kralizec
10-20-2006, 01:35
Religious nuts? Isn't the bulk of self proclaimed conservatives against suicide as well? Whereas support for euthanesia almost always comes from so called liberals?
I support tabocco tax (despite that I'm still a smoker), because smokers put a strain on health care by their habit. The tax serves to make them pay for it, or at least that's the justification.
I feel that if anything should have been done about the health risks of trans fat, it's tax as well. I'd switch over to products wich are healthier and cheaper. If companies would find out that expensive trans fat products no longer sell, they'd dissapear. Problem solved. No whining about "lost freedoms".
KukriKhan
10-20-2006, 04:35
I have a question; I don't mind doing the research myself, but one or more of you may have this info right at hand:
Are there actual numbers/studies that show that people who smoke/drink/eat themselves to death, cost (monetarily) society more than people who die from other causes?
Or is the 'healthcare burden' of these folks, usually touted as the reason behind legislation outlawing and/or overtaxing the products, just an accepted canard?
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-20-2006, 13:51
Religious nuts? Isn't the bulk of self proclaimed conservatives against suicide as well? Whereas support for euthanesia almost always comes from so called liberals?
I support tabocco tax (despite that I'm still a smoker), because smokers put a strain on health care by their habit. The tax serves to make them pay for it, or at least that's the justification.
I feel that if anything should have been done about the health risks of trans fat, it's tax as well. I'd switch over to products wich are healthier and cheaper. If companies would find out that expensive trans fat products no longer sell, they'd dissapear. Problem solved. No whining about "lost freedoms".
Tobacco Tax,I agree also. Normally, I would not care smoke (Hey,you get lun cancer, it's your own dang fault,no offense Kralizec) but I don't feel like breathing in second hand smoke every single day I go out.
There should not be a Ban of Trans Fats. Or Taxs, or Sending People to Africa. You should let the people make their own choices,they know what wrong and what is right. if you really want a ban, make it nationwide,not just in one state.
yesdachi
10-20-2006, 14:01
if you really want a ban, make it nationwide,not just in one state.
Ooooo, I don’t encourage taking away individual states rights. If it’s not a constitutional issue let each state decide for themselves what is best for their own.
Kralizec, does the tax on tobacco go towards relieving the strain on health care? I’m guessing no. Why accept it for that reason? :inquisitive:
Kralizec, does the tax on tobacco go towards relieving the strain on health care? I’m guessing no. Why accept it for that reason? :inquisitive:
Nah, just a milkcow. Goes to all sorts of government commisions where people get 100.000 a year for thinking up cool 'don't smoke' lines. Such a magnificant pie. Sometimes I feel like stopping just to annoy them.
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-20-2006, 14:30
you should Stop, but this isn't the "why smoke/not smoke" Topic I saw months ago.
Well, have the States Vote. A ban in one state won't help stop obese people from getting Fat from all over the Country,and even in NY.
yesdachi
10-20-2006, 14:37
Well, have the States Vote. A ban in one state won't help stop obese people from getting Fat from all over the Country,and even in NY.
But you must surely agree that the people should have the right to choose?:inquisitive:
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-20-2006, 15:13
Hey,
read over my posts. my thoughts still Stand of Having NO Ban, and no stupid Taxing. I was just saying, IF they wanted to, they should just ban it all together..
There's probably at least biological process in the human body which results in the production of trans-fatty acids, at least briefly. Therefore, ban humans.
If no one knows of this process yet, it probably is present, therefore ban humans as a precaution (see most illegal drugs as precident).
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-20-2006, 15:40
Or, Make People Start THINKING. Useing your Brain is a good thing, and a bad thing to waste..
Big King Sanctaphrax
10-20-2006, 17:08
There's probably at least biological process in the human body which results in the production of trans-fatty acids
As I understand it, breast milk contains them. Although this is linked to the amount of trans-fatty acids that the mother consumes.
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-20-2006, 17:45
Breast Milk contains quite a few things, depending on what the Mothers Does, Including eating alot of Trans Fatty foods. That's why they don't usally stick mothers on pills and crap when they get sick.
Don Corleone
10-20-2006, 18:08
As I understand it, breast milk contains them. Although this is linked to the amount of trans-fatty acids that the mother consumes.
There you have it. I propose a law forcing all nursing mothers to a diet of soybeans and flax seed oil. Think of the kids!!! And if it makes even just one kid healthier, isn't it worth it?
Kralizec
10-20-2006, 22:22
I have a question; I don't mind doing the research myself, but one or more of you may have this info right at hand:
Are there actual numbers/studies that show that people who smoke/drink/eat themselves to death, cost (monetarily) society more than people who die from other causes?
Or is the 'healthcare burden' of these folks, usually touted as the reason behind legislation outlawing and/or overtaxing the products, just an accepted canard?
Interesting question, haven't looked into that. However it's a well documented fact that smokers statistically have more health problems later on that have to be treated, so it seems logical.
Kralizec, does the tax on tobacco go towards relieving the strain on health care? I’m guessing no. Why accept it for that reason?
It just strikes me as unreasonable that if smokers put an actual strain on health care, everybody should pay equally regardless of wether or not they smoke. The easiest way to do it is to tax tobacco. I'm not the way it's handled in the Netherlands is correct because I don't know if the insurance premiums we pay for health care already cover the entire health care budget, I always assumed not but I'll look into it.
Major Robert Dump
10-21-2006, 02:58
Next thing you know cities are going to start having seatbelt laws, damn the liberal!!!1111
Tatoo parlors were illegal in Oklahoma until 5 months ago.
This form of preventative law making, pre-emptive life saving is garbage legislation at its best. I think I'm going to go get drunk tonight and pre-emptively beat up a frat boy to keep him from date raping his date.
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-21-2006, 04:29
I think some laws should be in place, such as the Tobacco law, but some laws liek the Seatbelt law, or on this Topic, the Trans Fat "laws" and ban are just plain idiotic.
Major Robert Dump
10-21-2006, 12:03
what tobacco law?
you mean the 18 and up part? fatty food is addictive, too, amigo. it makes your blood pressure spike and gives an energy kick you won't get from a mere piece of celery and cottage chee.
If we are going to make alcohol and tobacco not accessible to minors, we should do the same with fried chicken without parental consent. I have a 13 year old, 300 pound niece. She and her parents blame it on her thyroid, of course she also eats 8 meals a day. go figure.
I have a 13 year old, 300 pound niece. She and her parents blame it on her thyroid, of course she also eats 8 meals a day. go figure.
That is just sick, she needs professional help. That is just begging for diabetes.
what tobacco law?
you mean the 18 and up part? fatty food is addictive, too, amigo. it makes your blood pressure spike and gives an energy kick you won't get from a mere piece of celery and cottage chee.
If we are going to make alcohol and tobacco not accessible to minors, we should do the same with fried chicken without parental consent.
Now you're talking. If we are going to make distinctions, lets try to be consistent in our application.
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-21-2006, 15:07
what tobacco law?
you mean the 18 and up part? fatty food is addictive, too, amigo. it makes your blood pressure spike and gives an energy kick you won't get from a mere piece of celery and cottage chee.
If we are going to make alcohol and tobacco not accessible to minors, we should do the same with fried chicken without parental consent. I have a 13 year old, 300 pound niece. She and her parents blame it on her thyroid, of course she also eats 8 meals a day. go figure.
Major, I don't feel like dying from your second hand smoke.wanna smoke, go do it away from people amigo.
So you asking the feds for help with this? patheic. 8 meals a day? surley that sarcrasm there, but she probly does load herself for beening 300 :no:
you want to lose wieght/not to get fat, Stop cry like babies to the Goverment and start using your brain,not hard to read food labeles.
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