View Full Version : Father bashed in 'Racist' attack
Papewaio
10-17-2006, 00:11
Children see father bashed in 'Nazi' attack (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20595004-2,00.html)
A JEWISH man was racially abused then bashed in front of his two young children by a busload of country footballers drunk after a day at the races.
Victorian police are investigating the savage attack on Menachem Vorchheimer, 33, by players from the Ocean Grove Football Club.
The trouble began when Mr Vorchheimer and his children were walking along Balaclava Rd, Caulfield, about 6.30pm on Saturday.
Mr Vorchheimer was wearing traditional Jewish dress including a shabbat hat and a yamulka, the skull cap worn by Jewish men.
As the minibus drove past, some of the players were laughing and yelling racist abuse.
When the bus stopped at a red light, Mr Vorchheimer went to the driver's door.
"I wanted to find out where they were from so that . . . I could make approaches to that organisation," he said.
But the bus driver appeared to ignore him and took off when the light turned green.
Reading this I got rather down. :coffeenews: :shrug: ~:( I really don't like this kind of thing at all.
However reading on things got interesting.
As the bus drove past, two men reached out the back window, grabbed Mr Vorchheimer's hat and skull cap and hurled more abuse.
A driver who saw the incident pulled in front of the bus and stopped it.
Mr Vorchheimer said the men threw one of his hats out the bus window but when he asked for the other hat he was attacked.
"I was pulled toward the open window and then punched by a right hand into my left eye by a passenger on the bus. I fell back and was in enormous pain."
I thought, wow a guy stepped in to help that was brave of him. :viking: :horn:
Then.
"Meanwhile my kids are on the sidewalk crying and screaming," he said.
He said witnesses surrounded the bus and stopped it from moving.
Mr Vorchheimer said he sat in front of the bus and said. "You're not going 'til the police come."
When St Kilda police arrived they took details from the footballers and witnesses. They confirmed the men had been to Caulfield races.
Now that left a warm glow to see that a lot of people stepped in to stop this kind of behaviour. :coffeenews: ~:thumb: ~:pat:
This is sick and wrong. What more is there to debate about?
Sasaki Kojiro
10-17-2006, 00:39
This is sick and wrong. What more is there to debate about?
It's about heartwarming not debate.
Crazed Rabbit
10-17-2006, 05:40
So did the police actually arrest anybody?
Crazed Rabbit
So did the police actually arrest anybody?
Crazed Rabbit
Had it happened here the people that stopped the bus. Oh wait, the victim ain't white, scratch that.
Tribesman
10-17-2006, 07:54
Had it happened here the people that stopped the bus. Oh wait, the victim ain't white, scratch that.
Poor Fragony , of course Mr Vorchheimer isn't white , he is Jewish , that ain't quite white is it :dizzy2:
You really like to nail your colours to the mast don't you .:stupido3:
Poor Fragony , of course Mr Vorchheimer isn't white , he is Jewish , that ain't quite white is it :dizzy2:
You really like to nail your colours to the mast don't you .:stupido3:
You tell me, if the victim wasn't jewish this thread wouldn't have existed. There are racist attacks on whites on daily bases, racist attacks by whites are a rarity, and for some reason much more evil.
Ser Clegane
10-17-2006, 08:05
You tell me, if the victim wasn't jewish this thread wouldn't have existed. There are racist attacks on whites on daily bases, racist attacks by whites are a rarity, and for some reason much more evil.
I beg you pardon?
Firstly, as Tribesman already indicated, the "color" of the victim is not mentioned anywhere - chances are actually that he is "white" (but I guess it depends how you define "white")
Secondly, I would love to see some facts that back up your statement I put in bold.
On the original topic - kudos to the guy who first stepped in and stopped the bus, especially considering the fact that he did not only interfere with one thug but with a full busload of thugs :bow:
Secondly, I would love to see some facts that back up your statement I put in bold.
Oh please, no day goes by where someone (most of the time white girls and elders, cowards) isn't attacked by a gang of these poor socially excluded north-africans that are so horribly discriminated, are you really being serious here??
Ser Clegane
10-17-2006, 08:31
are you really being serious here??
Actually I am serious (and again you do not present anything to back up your views).
I would also like to note that in the article presented by Pape (to pay respect to the courage of those who intervened, BTW), the victim was very likely "white" and the "racial profile" of the thugs was not even mentioned.
This of course did not stop you from stepping in to vent once again how "whites" suffer racial attacks from "non-whites" on a much more frequent base than the other way around while claiming that you only hear about the latter (and I feel compelled to repeat myself - without providing anything to back up your claim)
Nazi's tend to be white, never noticed?
Nah I think I'll just stop, it's just of no use.
Major Robert Dump
10-17-2006, 09:11
A group on non-whites once attacked my white penis. I almost called the cops, but then i realized it wasn't racial discrimination, but rather a celebration of diversity.
A year ago I read an article in Knack (a decent belgian quality magazine) about the situation of the north-african inhabitants in Sint-Jans-Molenbeek (part of Brussels).
The author noticed a serious degree of hatred towards the native, white belgians. The word "Flamand" (the inhabitants of the Northern part of Belgium), was considered an insult.
Just to say that racism does go both ways.
Imho though, the colour of the racists or the victims doesn't matter, racism is disgusting, period.
So what happened to the Jewish man is on the one hand very, very sad, on the other hand it's a good thing people disapprove such behaviour AND have the heart to take action.
A year ago I read an article in Knack (a decent belgian quality magazine) about the situation of the north-african inhabitants in Sint-Jans-Molenbeek (part of Brussels).
The author noticed a serious degree of hatred towards the native, white belgians. The word "Flamand" (the inhabitants of the Northern part of Belgium), was considered an insult.
How about you tell Ser Clegane what is very likely to happen if you decide to take a little walk with your lovely wife there in the occupied zone.
Major Robert Dump
10-17-2006, 11:00
A celebration of diversity?
We prefer to call it a masterclass in intercultural communication :laugh4:
Tribesman
10-17-2006, 17:39
Firstly, as Tribesman already indicated, the "color" of the victim is not mentioned anywhere - chances are actually that he is "white" (but I guess it depends how you define "white")
It doesn't mention his skin colour , but the surname might be a bit of a givaway about his european backround , if if you get really stuck you can always do a colour comparison with the victims photo in the article Pape posted .
Alternatively people can just label others so as to fit with their particular racial/religeous predjudice , if their mind just happens to be ever so slightly faulty .:no:
How about you tell Ser Clegane what is very likely to happen if you decide to take a little walk with your lovely wife there in the occupied zone.
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: too far gone , way to far .....sad isn't it .
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: too far gone , way to far .....sad isn't it .
Yes indeed, I would suggest you try it, you were going to give me a visit anyway and Belgium ain't that far.
Tribesman
10-17-2006, 17:58
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
That went completely over your head didn't it , :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Would you understand better if it was in C[COLOR="darkred"][COLOR="Pink"]OLOUR .
Devastatin Dave
10-17-2006, 18:06
A group on non-whites once attacked my white penis. I almost called the cops, but then i realized it wasn't racial discrimination, but rather a celebration of diversity.
Strangly enough, I had the same thing happen to me back in my younger years. The non-white gang that attacked my genitals must have moved to Oklahoma. Although some would consider it "abuse" I found it to be a "celebration of diversity" as well. Maybe more research is required? MRD, I call upon you to research this for us and send me lots of video to review. Thanks...
Reading the article, the football coach sounds like a spineless snake of a man. I'm glad the bystanders were made of better stuff. Kudos to the person who ran the bus off the road. :2thumbsup: And the victim, of course.
Kralizec
10-17-2006, 22:16
Glad to hear it! It's always nice to hear when people stand up to these dumb jerks.
Had it happened here the people that stopped the bus. Oh wait, the victim ain't white, scratch that.
If you're a witness to a crime, you're legally allowed to stop the culprit and hold him until the police arrives (with reasonable means of course, beating up a shoplifter is unsurprisingly not allowed)
Tribesman
10-17-2006, 23:43
If you're a witness to a crime, you're legally allowed to stop the culprit and hold him until the police arrives
What !!!!!!!!!
you mean you don't have laws that stop citizens taking action based on the colour of the victims skin ?????? errrr...... you do live in the same Netherlands as Frag don't you :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Now that left a warm glow to see that a lot of people stepped in to stop this kind of behaviour. :coffeenews: ~:thumb: ~:pat:
Yes indeed
Strike For The South
10-17-2006, 23:53
I must agree with Fragony. Although can you really blame the immagrants. Imagine you are an immagrant and you move to a well off country where if you have you right amount of organazation and zeal you can get away with murder. Its a problem with modern white culture. Blacks can say there black and Mexicans can say there Mexican and proud. Hell we devote months to these peoples cultures but god forbid we say were white and proud or we want to celebrate our heritage. Then all of a sudden were racists.
The Blind King of Bohemia
10-17-2006, 23:57
Pape mate I don't call that 'stepping in' - I'm not sure about the definition of it round your way but over here 'stepping in' is using your fists and actually getting physically involved. Its intervening on a minimum level at best as anyone should.
I 'stepped in' to help a mate once when I didn't need to but threw caution to the wind and suffered heavily for it.
Also he was hit the once, it was not a severe beating. Sometimes when you dealing with lads who had too much beer you give them the abuse back or the finger. Don't get out and with no sense at all and demand something done from the bus driver. It really is daft. The bloke had kids with him, what was he thinking? The kids probably didn't care about the shouting but sure as hell didn't want dad pulling up and argueing with drunken footie lads. Why didn't he get the license plate or something like that? He had responsibility as his kids were with him. He should have laughed it off and moved on. The situation was a no win one for him which was bound to end in tears in some way another.
Papewaio
10-18-2006, 00:17
To step into a conflict is to take sides, it may have ended with the hooligans attacking him or not. The point is he put his butt on the line for someone else.
Had it happened here the people that stopped the bus. Oh wait, the victim ain't white, scratch that.
Now Mr Vorchheimer is about as white as a person can get. I fail to see how ones religion changes ones skin tone. He all likely hood given that the attackers were aussie rules players, the vast majority of whom are white, the attackers where white as well.
The attack was racist but it wasn't based on skin tone. I'm sure if the victim had no religious garb on him he wouldn't have been singled out for attack.
So enough of this cry baby self indulgent attitude of 'Oh but there are other colours that are racist'. Yes, yes there are racists of every skin tone... it is ironic but the thing that seems to be shared most between different groups is the ability to raise mindless idiots who can't see beyond the colour of a persons skin or their creed or their sex. And if I get any more good news stories of people stepping in and stopping thugs I will post them, regardless of the colours of the attackers or the victims or those brave enough to step in against the attackers.
The attackers were creeps and that saddened me. Unfortunately there are cretins everywhere. The main point of why I posted it though was the rapid response of the witnesses to the event.
CaesarAugustus
10-18-2006, 02:38
Now that left a warm glow to see that a lot of people stepped in to stop this kind of behaviour. :coffeenews: ~:thumb: ~:pat:
I dunno, i still think its sad that this happened in the first place.:embarassed:
but god forbid we say were white and proud or we want to celebrate our heritage. Then all of a sudden were racists.
Well if you say "I'm proud of my white heritage" you really are making an ass of yourself, because white ain't a heritage. Now if you say "I'm german and proud of it." I have rarely seen people being ridiculed for that. Hell the Greeks, the Irish, the Italians, the Russians, and the Poles in my town each take over the main street one day a year to celebrate their cultures. Their all as white as anyone else, and no one complains.
Imagine you are an immagrant and you move to a well off country where if you have you right amount of organazation and zeal you can get away with murder.
The same can be said for whites. You remember a kid named Emmett Till? Show that there is a measurable difference between the way races are treated in the justice system that discriminates against whites
Oh please, no day goes by where someone (most of the time white girls and elders, cowards) isn't attacked by a gang of these poor socially excluded north-africans that are so horribly discriminated, are you really being serious here??
Anyone else think this reeks of the Klu Klux Klan?
On the topic, cheers to the people who stopped the bus. People reaching out to do something good always makes the day better.
Tribesman
10-18-2006, 07:59
Anyone else think this reeks of the Klu Klux Klan?
Do you possibly mean that there is the faintest whiff of small minded racist bigotry in that statement ?
I hadn't really noticed .
Peasant Phill
10-18-2006, 14:25
Anyone else think this reeks of the Klu Klux Klan?
Do you possibly mean that there is the faintest whiff of small minded racist bigotry in that statement ?
I hadn't really noticed .
Oh please. Now who's making harsh judgements?
I don't know where you all live but it must happen all over. Here in Belgium many immigrants (mostly the North Africans and Turks) indulge in their role as victims (which they are to a certain extend). They use their status as less fortunate as an excuse.
I honestly don't know anybody that hasn't had some bad experiences with immigrants. Beeing mugged, sexually harrased, ... Make a remark and your a racist or suddenly ten other immigrants turn up.
As I said, I don't know the situation where all of you live and what the situation is overthere but I don't consider Fragony a racist for saying what he said. It is the present situation, unfortunatly.
I don't consider Fragony a racist for saying what he said. It is the present situation, unfortunatly.
I agree.
Fragony can be a bit sharp in his comments and sometimes very cynical, but I don't think of him as a racist.
He's just saying what a lot of other people think but don't dare to say because of the terror of the so called "politically correct thinking" as it is cultivated in Belgium and the Netherlands.
Tribesman
10-18-2006, 18:27
Oh please. Now who's making harsh judgements?
The harshness is based on the content of his posts .
Fragony can be a bit sharp in his comments and sometimes very cynical, but I don't think of him as a racist.
If someone constantly makes posts where the only issue that they have with the topic is either the race or religeon of the people involved , then what word would you use to describe it Andres ?
Or alternately just in case you are a little confused , if someone makes a post where they say they are going out to beat up immigrants to teach them a lesson , as a certain poster who shall remain nameless in this post has , then what particular type of ideology would you attribute to that person ?
Kralizec
10-18-2006, 20:51
because of the terror of the so called "politically correct thinking" as it is cultivated in Belgium and the Netherlands.
I'm pretty pissed off sometimes with the behaviour of "allochtonen" (is there an English word for that anyway?), but "terror"? Who's playing the victim now?
This thread wasn't about immigrants in the first place.
Papewaio
10-18-2006, 22:12
I'm an immigrant, my wife is an immigrant. In fact one in four Australians are immigrants.
In all likely hood the football thugs were not and neither was the Jewish man. Just to add more dimensions to this there are Jews in Football and Jews who own Football clubs in Aussie rules... it isn't like they keep themselves separate from the game. No this was a bunch of bullies, being bullies. The type of guys who are brave when they move in packs and have drunk alcohol, so those who like a challenge can try and defend their actions. I don't however see how this is an issue to do with immigration.
Oh please. Now who's making harsh judgements?
My comment was about the 'whites girls and the elderly' part. Here in the US we had (and unfortunatly still have) a group called the Klu Klux Klan. They have a long and rather interesting history, but basically serves as a club for weak men who are afraid of Jews, Blacks, Catholics, and all non-WASPS. They have a habit of talking about how 'Blacks are after our young white women' because they think it arouses more fear in people than saying the Blacks are after "Our white men".
Tribesman
10-19-2006, 00:06
Jimbob, you made me think of this
http://www.jahozafat.com/php/sounds/?id=bst&media=WAVS&type=Movies&movie=Blazing_Saddles"e=whitewmn.txt&file=whitewmn.wav:laugh4:
Strike For The South
10-19-2006, 03:04
Well if you say "I'm proud of my white heritage" you really are making an ass of yourself, because white ain't a heritage. Now if you say "I'm german and proud of it." I have rarely seen people being ridiculed for that. Hell the Greeks, the Irish, the Italians, the Russians, and the Poles in my town each take over the main street one day a year to celebrate their cultures. Their all as white as anyone else, and no one complains.
The same can be said for whites. You remember a kid named Emmett Till? Show that there is a measurable difference between the way races are treated in the justice system that discriminates against whites
Anyone else think this reeks of the Klu Klux Klan?
On the topic, cheers to the people who stopped the bus. People reaching out to do something good always makes the day better.
1. White in America is used to encompass everyone of European heritage. People these days blame whites for everything and I still cant figure out why. We to seem keen on giving ourselves this guilt trip.
2. Emmet Till and 1955 Mississippi couldnt be a worse comparisson to the 2006 west.
3. Why is it everyone who dosent treat these immagrants as saints branded as racists? Can you begin to imgane if this happen in Iran or Mexico? We would call the whites idoits for moving to a country and then try to put in place there culture as the domaninet one. But its ok if the Mexicans do it in Texas or California or the Muslims in Holland or France becuase we are white and we need to open our arms to these poor people becuase we put them in that sutuaion. This is insanity.
1. White in America is used to encompass everyone of European heritage. People these days blame whites for everything and I still cant figure out why. We to seem keen on giving ourselves this guilt trip.
1) Yes white in America means people of European heritage. But here's the thing, there is not one single European heritage, so celebrating white heritage is rather pointless. Celebrating German or Irish or Russian heritage would make more sense.
Black is the same way, East Africa, South Africa, West Africa all are different culturally, yet all the people there are black.
2) People also blame blacks for everything, what would be worrying is if a large number of people believed that a race was responsible for most things. If you can demonstrate that, then you have an argument.
3) I honestly don't feel guilty about what white people did hundreds of years ago, and I have never met another white person who does. I think it is terrible, and I feel sympathy for the people who were brutalized, and some amount of scorn for the people who did it.
Tribesman has got the point. Mr. Brooks said it better than I could have.
2. Emmet Till and 1955 Mississippi couldnt be a worse comparisson to the 2006 west.
No, Lao-Tzu and 400 BC China would probably be worse. But beside that, why not? You say that immigrants get away with murder, I say white people do too. But if you don't like Emmett Till we'll try something else, bring me the evidence that immigrants are getting away with murder anymore than another section of society.
3. Why is it everyone who dosent treat these immagrants as saints branded as racists?
Proof please.
Can you begin to imgane if this happen in Iran or Mexico? We would call the whites idoits for moving to a country and then try to put in place there culture as the domaninet one. But its ok if the Mexicans do it in Texas or California or the Muslims in Holland or France becuase we are white and we need to open our arms to these poor people becuase we put them in that sutuaion.
Let's see in the US:
I didn't know that Spanish was the official language, that anywhere had been officially renamed Aztlan, or that we were required to take Mexican history courses in high school.
People come in with different cultures. They bring those cultures and mix them with the current one, especially in democratic societies.
Now let me ask you a question:
What about the Greeks, Italians, Russians, Poles. They all have ethnic enclaves where they speak their native tounge. There are parts of the Greektown in Chicago where no one speaks English. They cook their native foods, they wear traditional dress. What should we do about them?
Tribesman
10-19-2006, 07:58
Why is it everyone who dosent treat these immagrants as saints branded as racists?
Strike , what is the basis you use for treating someone differently ?
The harshness is based on the content of his posts .
If someone constantly makes posts where the only issue that they have with the topic is either the race or religeon of the people involved , then what word would you use to describe it Andres ?
Obsessed? Bitter because of bad experiences? I admit "racist" would be another possibility. But I think it's not appropriate to become personal and to judge other members of this community.
Or alternately just in case you are a little confused , if someone makes a post where they say they are going out to beat up immigrants to teach them a lesson , as a certain poster who shall remain nameless in this post has , then what particular type of ideology would you attribute to that person ?
Maybe it's a racist. Maybe it's somebody who suffered a lot, became angry and reacts in the wrong way. Maybe it's somebody who likes to provoke. But as stated before, who am I to judge other members of the community?
I'm pretty pissed off sometimes with the behaviour of "allochtonen" (is there an English word for that anyway?), but "terror"? Who's playing the victim now?
This thread wasn't about immigrants in the first place.
Guess you misunderstood. I meant the terror of the "politiek correct denken", not the "terror of immigrants". I just meant the attitude of certain media and politicians who tend to call other people a racist if they claim that for a good integration policy you also need repressive mesures.
And as you and Pape said, this thread is not about immigrants.
Kralizec
10-19-2006, 08:47
Guess you misunderstood. I meant the terror of the "politiek correct denken", not the "terror of immigrants". I just meant the attitude of certain media and politicians who tend to call other people a racist if they claim that for a good integration policy you also need repressive mesures.
I didn't misunderstand, it was my own poor wording in my reply. Political correctness is way past its peak and on its way out (though every now and then there's a PC incident that hits the news of course)
People need to stop crying about it and stop pretending they're treated like second class citizens in their own country.
AntiochusIII
10-19-2006, 14:13
I didn't misunderstand, it was my own poor wording in my reply. Political correctness is way past its peak and on its way out (though every now and then there's a PC incident that hits the news of course)
People need to stop crying about it and stop pretending they're treated like second class citizens in their own country.But it's good victimization! How could you ask another person to abandon his own pretense of victimization for some other, less securely righteous position?
Come on, we all know modern society has compassion for victims; some people who aren't real victims then want to be victims too.
Quite frankly, if your politicians scream "racist" at everyone else, then it's your politicians' fault, not the evil colored people. Do you blame every Jews for that terrible lobbying organization in the USA that apparently* makes the US Israel's little puppet in foreign policy? Of course not.
*apparently
As I said, I don't know the situation where all of you live and what the situation is overthere but I don't consider Fragony a racist for saying what he said. It is the present situation, unfortunatly.
Many thanks
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