High Period - Sicilians

[Jxrc]

Having played the Early period inside out (and being a bit bored of the battles with the Horde and the uber-Byzantines general) I tried to give my first serious shot at the high period (crippled Byzantines, smaller horde ... Sounded good to me:idea2: ).

Picked the Sicilian in order to have a secured location to start with. Was quite amazed by the higher tempo of the whole thing ... Everyone at war, crusades sent every five years, Italy taking Scotland and Wales before the English... Even the Danes actually doing something else than getting large army of knights for no purpose :inquisitive:

Made what I tought to be a decent cautious start (keeping my homeland, adding Egypt, Antioch, Tripoli, Crete and Syria in about 100 years, two ships in each square, 400,000 florins). Was doing ok in GA point just behind most factions other than the Hungarians who had already a substantial lead. When the game reaches 1320, new GA points calculation for me: 1 for keeping Malta (only homeland), 1 for 3 additonal provinces. This basically means that I am screwed except if can conquer all the non-catholic factions, and burn all other catholic factions with Grand Inquisitors (which is a bit too easy given the AI inability to defend against that ... but already did it to the Italians ... shame on me) ...

A combanition of all-out conquest and cheesy tactics that I do not enjoy too much (but conquering as much as possible with high tech unit could be fun) and I was wondering if anyone (i) could tell me if there is some turn of event before the end of the game that I can expect regarding the calculation of the Sicilian GA points ? or (ii) would have any suggestion for a faction in the high period that would be less at a disadvantage than the Sicilians?

[Deus ret.]

I was wondering if anyone (i) could tell me if there is some turn of event before the end of the game that I can expect regarding the calculation of the Sicilian GA points ? or (ii) would have any suggestion for a faction in the high period that would be less at a disadvantage than the Sicilians?

(i) I'm afraid that since the Sicilian dynasty died out sometime towards the end of the 13th century and the kingdom passed inzto Aragonese hands subsequently, there is nothing which will help you in terms of GA points in the late period. If you look at the faction selection screen in "Late", you'll notice that there are no more Sicilians and that Sicily belongs to Aragon. The only thing which can help you win now is the elimination of factions leading on you in GA points supplied by a decent conquest spree to somewhat alleviate your dire GA point situation.

(ii) basically all which are still there in Late. If you want a safe GA win, take the Russians. You'll have a hell of a time fighting off the horde in High, but once it's done and you're in possession of the steppes you can lean back and rake in GA points. Works even better if you start in Late with them, when the Horde is not as strong as several decades earlier.

[Jxrc]

(ii) If you want a safe GA win, take the Russians. You'll have a hell of a time fighting off the horde in High, but once it's done and you're in possession of the steppes you can lean back and rake in GA points.

Sounds tempting. I will just give it a go (I hate boyards and all horse archers, but trying my luck with halbardiers only could be fun). I think that rus spearmen are no longer available in high but those cool guys who can dismount as feudal knights (Druzzsomething) should be !!! :2thumbsup: Will probably not have enough cash to buy many of those unless I let rebellions happen every year :laugh4:

[Empirate]

Sorry, no Druzhinas for you in Late... go on a recruiting spree as soon as you can build them, is my advice.
Boyars are one unit that simply has no decent counter, except for dense formations of polearms plus Arbalesters. Use them all you can. They can shoot, don't get too tired, and can easily go mano-a-mano with all kinds of heavy cavalry, as well as Chivalric Knights (just don't let them get charged). They are very, very powerful heavy cavalry, and being able to shoot means there is no part of the battle in which they can't contribute. Don't use them as horse archers - they pack too mean a punch in melee for that.
Steppe Heavies are also very good. They don't kill quickly, as their attack stat is a bit low, but they have some very decent armor on them. Against most infantry archers, these guys can actually win a missile duel (counting out stuff like Turcoman Foot or Longbowmen, as well as everything with a crossbow). They're very sturdy, so don't be afraid to send them into melee: They will be able to hold against most everything except anti-cav or the best of knights.
Halberdiers will be the staple of your Russian armies. A unit that you need to recruit in masses, and one that should always come from a province that has at least a church. Build everything you can to increase their morale.
Pavise Arbalesters in numbers are often considered a little cheesy, but against the Mongols, you just need them. The Mongols have almost no troops that can't shoot, but all they have is bows. Arbalesters have them for breakfast, lunch and dinner, with the occasional snack in between...
Hold that bridge in Kiev/Crimea, let everything east of that go to the Horde when they first appear. You can whittle them down in several successive bridge battles in Kiev. You must also hold Muscovy, of course. After decimating the Horde in defensive battles, you can wipe the off the eastern plains forever, or leave a remnant as a buffer against the Turks/Egyptians/Whoever dominates in Asia Minor.

[Jxrc]

Sorry, no Druzhinas for you in Late... go on a recruiting spree as soon as you can build them, is my advice.

Bankruptcy ahead but I do like those guy. Only unit I keep even as mercenaries...


Boyars are one unit that simply has no decent counter, except for dense formations of polearms plus Arbalesters. Use them all you can. They can shoot, don't get too tired, and can easily go mano-a-mano with all kinds of heavy cavalry, as well as Chivalric Knights (just don't let them get charged). They are very, very powerful heavy cavalry, and being able to shoot means there is no part of the battle in which they can't contribute. Don't use them as horse archers - they pack too mean a punch in melee for that.
Steppe Heavies are also very good. They don't kill quickly, as their attack stat is a bit low, but they have some very decent armor on them. Against most infantry archers, these guys can actually win a missile duel (counting out stuff like Turcoman Foot or Longbowmen, as well as everything with a crossbow). They're very sturdy, so don't be afraid to send them into melee: They will be able to hold against most everything except anti-cav or the best of knights.

Will try but I will probably suck at this since too used to cavalry with good charge and average melee.



Halberdiers will be the staple of your Russian armies. A unit that you need to recruit in masses, and one that should always come from a province that has at least a church. Build everything you can to increase their morale.
Pavise Arbalesters in numbers are often considered a little cheesy, but against the Mongols, you just need them. The Mongols have almost no troops that can't shoot, but all they have is bows. Arbalesters have them for breakfast, lunch and dinner, with the occasional snack in between...
Hold that bridge in Kiev/Crimea, let everything east of that go to the Horde when they first appear. You can whittle them down in several successive bridge battles in Kiev. You must also hold Muscovy, of course. After decimating the Horde in defensive battles, you can wipe the off the eastern plains forever, or leave a remnant as a buffer against the Turks/Egyptians/Whoever dominates in Asia Minor.

Should do ok here. Once I tried in an early campaign (earthquake had destroyed my only facility producing arbs while the constuction of the cathedral was on its way:wall: :wall:) I had to stop the Horde in Khazar with just about eight unit of arbalesters the rest being harlardiers and chivalric seargeant. It was the most boring battle ever (waiting in the woods for their MHA to run out of arrows ...:shame: ) but in the end time was on my side (killing 50% of the horde, rest ran away, almost no prisoners but try chasing fleeing horses with halbardiers :no: ).

Anyway thanks for all the tips. Something I will definitavely try next week-end. Will post the result for my greater shame or glory .... (probably the former the first time I try bu what the heck :laugh4:)

[King Kurt]

I have been doing a High Sicilian campaign for some time - see
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=65937

and "Pics and history of your empire"

I have found it a real challenge and great fun - why are you worried about attacking Catholics? - I tend to have a rule of only attacking those who attack me or those who are excommunicated - but the game has been great. The GA points are a bit of a pain, but, once that had sank in, I have been slowly building an empire. Because of your small beginings and the fact that the High period seems more free wheeling ther are a succession of challenges to get through.

So have a look at my campaign - the key was grabbing Constantinopole early and hanging on. I have come close to oblivion a couple of times, but have won through.:2thumbsup:

[Jxrc]

Why are you worried about attacking Catholics?:

Just because the French, English and Danes have got plenty of ships and that a war with them would disrput my trade routes for ages. On the other hand, getting rid of them with inquisitors makes all those ships disappear (ships do not turn into rebels). Even if the faction are bound to reappear later one they will in any event only recover all or part of the land forces and will not be able to build any substantial amount of ship for a while (moreover their GA points restart at 0). :shame: :shame: :shame:


I tend to have a rule of only attacking those who attack me or those who are excommunicated - but the game has been great. The GA points are a bit of a pain, but, once that had sank in, I have been slowly building an empire. Because of your small beginings and the fact that the High period seems more free wheeling ther are a succession of challenges to get through.?:

Game has been fun so far. Quite nice to use high tech unit "for real" (I mean that usually - unless when you play as Arragon perhaps - if you start in the early period you do not really need to use chivalric knights and the like to win the game. You can just keep using the feudal units you already have to complete a minor victory in no time).


So have a look at my campaign - the key was grabbing Constantinopole early and hanging on. I have come close to oblivion a couple of times, but have won through.:2thumbsup:

That looked to be a tempting move at the start of my campaign but I selected to build ships out of my three provinces until I had the full sea covered (too many Italian ships and sealandings all around for comfort). Plenty of cash but then the Hungarian owned the place with a nasty looking 8 stars general. Whenn, in addition, I see all the crusade going through Constantinople, it does no look to tempting now (even if that province has no high zeal). Probably better off picking up the whole middle east before that (Hungarians got quite a large kingdom stretching, as far as a can seen from Venice to Kiev and Lithuania - but I helped them a lot when I killed the Doge to get rid of his 150 galleys - one cannot have his cake and ...:juggle2: )

[Vladimir]

Trust me, you can win with them. If I can win a GA with Armenia, Late, XL relying on gunpowder and armored spearmen, you can win GA with that powerful little island empire. Just don't neglect your happiness buildings.

[Jxrc]

Trust me, you can win with them. If I can win a GA with Armenia, Late, XL relying on gunpowder and armored spearmen, you can win GA with that powerful little island empire. Just don't neglect your happiness buildings.

Trying, trying but I have not had as much time as I would I liked this week-end :embarassed:

Saturday afternoon was enough to get the entire middle east from Egypt to Trebizon :egypt:

Had never used handgunners extensively but they are quite fun with a good general. Rebellion of saracen and spearmen send twelve units of them (+ the general's knight), wait to of the hill, spearmen come close and then 1) kaboum 2) charge 3) spearmen all running away !!!!:2thumbsup: (probably killed three guys while shooting - morale effect was probably enough to trigger a chain rout):laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

[Vladimir]

I increased the accuracy of my Arbequessers 5% to .25, handgunners also have .20 and it doesn't make too much sense. You have to choose the weather carefully and armor upgrades are a must because of the arrows. You'll probably take more casualties per battle but the simplicity in command and ease of creation (only 3 types of units needed) will make up for it. At valor 5 Arbs the pendulum shifts and they are lethal.

It sounds like a great battle you had. Spearmen are the best to use guns against. A nice, long front to absorb lots of little lead balls.

[Jxrc]

Battle took place in Arabia so armour upgrade was not on the agenda.

Luckily, I was sitting on the hill closest to the edge of the map so that the handgunners had noty to chase routers a very long way before getting exhausted (would have been a smart move but I only thought about geting the high ground). The unit of knight (with the blue shield ... must be hot in there) chased the rebel general and manage to capture him. Was all over after that ... a very few units managed to regroup but as you know once the general is out most low morale unit run as soon as they see your troops.

Regarding the need for upgrade, I would say that weapon upgrade would be nicer. The handgunner's armour is ok and with weapon upgrade they become CMA with guns :clown: :clown: