Europa Barbarorum Bibliography

[oudysseos]

Voluntary non-binding guidelines for submitting books to the bibliograhpy

I will include all suggested books. I think that it is more useful if there is some uniformity in the list. I therefore ask that if you submit a book, please use the following format:

Name of Book Underlined, Name of Author or Editor, (Publishing data optional), A Brief squib of your opinion, Your Name/Handle

I will edit submissions to more-or-less conform to this format, so it just saves me time if you do it like that.

If I miss or forget to add your submission to the main post, please remind me and I will rectify. It will never be on purpose.


General Histories of the Period, Theoretical Works on Language, Economics, Demographics

:bullseye: :bullseye: The Hellenistic Age, Peter Green. Must read.
:bullseye:Barbarians, Terry Jones Highly Recommended
~:argue: Black Athena volume One: The Fabrication of Ancient Greece 1785-1985, Martin Bernal. Very Controversial, Not Very Well Written. Not necessarily all wrong.
:bullseye: Egypt, Greece and Rome Charles Freeman
Empires of the Word:A language History of the World Nicholas Ostler
New Larousse Encyclopedia of Mythology ed. Robert Graves
Mapping Human History Steve Olson
The Field and the Forge: Population, Production, and Power in the Pre-Industrial West, John Landers. Thought-provoking book incorporating demographics, economics, macro-politics, but especially military technology and logistics within the context of the “Organic Economy” over a wide chronology of western history, from Antiquity through the French Revolution.
Religions of the ancient world : a guide, Sarah Iles Johnston a good overview of various religions and their interconnectness in antiquity, interesting insight into the spiritual and everyday world of that time.
Food in the ancient world, John M. Wilkins and Shaun Hill, informative, interesting perspective into sociology and everyday life of the ancient times.

Works on Military Theory and Armies

:bullseye: The Face of Battle, Masks of Command, A History of Warfare, John Keegan
:bullseye: Soldiers and Ghosts, a History of Battle in Classical Antiquity, J.E. Lendon
War in the Hellenistic World by Chaniotis
The Mercenaries of the Hellenistic World G.T. Griffith very informative and detailed, especially about the economics of the mercenary market
Warfare in the Classical World John Warry
Warfare in the Ancient World Brian Todd Carey; Joshua B. Allfree,; John Cairns
Greek Mercenary Soldiers Parke
Warfare in Antiquity Hans Delbruck. Excellent book for getting a feel for the evolution of warfare in the ancient West, with a surprising amount of detail for a survey work.
:bullseye: Greek Warfare: Myths and Realities Hans van Wees
Absolutely critical book to read for analysis of hoplite/phalanx fighting
The Bloody Crucible of Courage: Fighting Methods and Combat Experience of the American Civil War Brent Nosworthy
Off topic but still germane: the psychology and methods of line infantry and great explanations of logistics, terrain and the impact of technology on warfare.
The Ancient Greeks Nicholas Sekunda. One of those illustrated 'Soldiers of the x period' books from Osprey publishing, but the articles are also excellent and explain a great deal about the difficulties of drawing conclusions about things like hoplite armour from the sources that w have.
The Western Way of War, Victor Daivs Hanson
Warhorse: Cavalry In Ancient Warfare, Philip Sidnell. Concentrates mainly on Roman and Greek cavalry and highlights why the stirrup wasn't all that big a deal for cavalry.
Hellenistic infantry reform in the 160's BC, Nicholas Sekunda.
the latest work of N. Seckunda where he somewhat changes his earlier ideas (expressed in his previous works) on what happened in the infantry reforms of the 160's.
Besieged, D. B. Campbell.
development of siege warfare from 6th century Persia to the 4th century Roman world.
The Ancient World at War ed. P. de Souza.
:bullseye: Xenophon's Retreat:Greece Persia & the End of the Golden Age, Robin Waterfield
War and peace in the ancient world, Kurt A. Raaflaub ed., excellent compilation of studies into the concepts, theory and practice of war and peace in various antic civilizations from assyrians to India (and even North American Indians), A MUST!


Greece/Hellenistic

The Cambridge History of the Classical World vol 7
A standard work, every college library and most good public libraries will have a set. Volume 7 covers the EB period for All the Diadochi/Greek factions, as well as Epirus and lots on Rome. Perhaps the best one-stop-shop for an overview of the period. The following articles were very good:
The Aetolian League; Social Changes in Greece; Greece after Pyrrhus' Death; The Greek Leagues and Macedonia all by WW Tarn
Rhodes in the Hellenistic Age R.M. Berthold
:bullseye: Sparta and Lakonia and Hellenistic and Roman Sparta (both are excellent and cheap) P. Cartledge
Spartan Twilight Piper
Athens From Alexander to Antony C. Habicht
Wealthy Corinth Salmon
Greeks, Romans, and Barbarians: Spheres of Interaction Barry Cunliffe
A History of the Greek City States, 700-338 B. C. Raphael Sealey
The Greek World 479-323 BC Simon Hornblower
The Greek Tyrants, A. Andrews. More about the Classical Period, but a great background book with some good bits on hoplites
Ancient Greece, Eyewitness Guides. A cheesey selection but has some nice pictures :).
The Cambridge Companion to the Hellenistic World. Glenn Bugh ed. Great collection of articles, especially Hellenistic Military Developments by the editor and Hellenistic Economies by John Davies
A History of the Greek Workd 323-146 BC M. Cary
Very Hellono-centric, nothing really new but later chapters on economics and governments in post Alexandrine Greece very interesting.
The Hellenistic World and the Coming of Rome Erich Gruen
Only had a chance to skim through this but a very interesting work: not a chronological history but more an analysis of the impact on Greek thought and life of Roman dominance, i.e. how the previously world-conquering hellenes adjusted to being conquered.
The Social and Economic History of the Greek World M. Rostovtzeff
( 3 volumes ) Covers the EB period in depth with great chapters on the 'minor monarchies' (Pergamon, Pontus, Galatia, Bithynia and the Black Sea City-statesand the Bosporan Kingdom)
:bullseye: The Extraordinary Voyage of Pytheas the Greek Barry Cunliffe
A Massaliot Greek's travels to Britain in 320 BC, and lots of stuff about the interaction between the Hellenic and Celtic worlds. Well written.
An Introduction to Greek Epigraphy of the Hellenistic and Roman Periods from Alexander the Great down to the Reign of Constantine (323 B.C. - A.D. 337), McLean
Babylon, Memphis, Persepolis: Eastern Contexts of Greek Culture, Walter Burkett
The City of Sharp Nosed Fish, Greeks Lives in Roman Egypt, Peter Parsons
The story of the late 19th century expedition of Grenfell and Hunt to the ruins of Oxyrhynchos, outside of Cairo, where they found a massive horde of papyri detailing the everyday lives of Greek colonist in Egypt from Alexander up to Roman times. Fascinating.
The Role of Metals in Ancient Greek History Michail Yu Treister
Daily Life in Greece at the Time of Pericles, Robert Flaceliere
Hellenistic History and Culture, Peter Green ed. (http://www.escholarship.org/editions/view?docId=ft0000035f;brand=ucpress)
Dividing the Spoils, Robin Waterfield


Macedon

Lysimachus: A Portrait of Hellenistic Kingship Helen S. Lind
A History of Macedonia Errington
The Macedonian State N Hammond
The Macedonian Empire: The Era of Warfare Under Philip II and Alexander the Great 359-323 BC James R. Ashley
Alexander the Great and the logistics of the Macedonian Army, Donald W. Engels.
The Genius of Alexander the Great N.G. Hammond
Alexander by Robin Lane Fox
Alexander to Actium: The Historical Evolution of the Hellenistic Age Peter Green
Alexander of Macedon Peter Green
Alexander Lt. Col. Theodore Ayrault Dodge
The Nature of Alexander the Great, Mary Renault- The Grandmother of Classical Historical Fiction gives her non-fic opinion of Al. Well written and also provides a glimpse behind the scenes of her famous trilogy.


Epiros

Pyrrhos: King of Epirus Petros Garoufalias
Epirus Hammond
The Illyrians John Wilkes Fantastic book- v. good on the differences between the Illyrians and the Greeks, really puts them in context


Seleukids

The House of Seleucus Edwyn R. Bevan
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=hhkKLKXnZA4C&dq=house+of+seleucus&printsec=frontcover&=web&ots=3z6i7FV4te&sig=EPAQwPc_stRCHYCaaAkJHpzdy3c&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result#PPR3,M1
A link to an etext version of the above, I hope
Late Achaemenid and Hellenistic Babylon T. Boiy
The Seleucid Army: Organisation and Tactics in the Great Campaigns Bar-Kochva
From Samarkhand to Sardis (best on Seleukids) Sherwin-White and Kuhrt
The Seleucid Army: Organisation and Tactics in the Great Campaigns Bar-Kochva
Roman War of Antiochos the Great by Grainger


Ptolemies

The House of Ptolemy Edwyn R. Bevan !!read it online!! (http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Gazetteer/Places/Africa/Egypt/_Texts/BEVHOP/home.html)
A History of the Ptolemaic Empire (very good) G. Holbl
Cleopatra, Ernle Bradford- Begins with a concise and informative overview of the Ptolemies, and includes the most interesting analysis of Caesar's character I have ever seen. Made me think.
Rome and the Ptolemies of Egypt : the development of their political relations 273-80 B.C., Anssi Lampela


Baktria

:bullseye: Thundering Zeus (Baktria - excellent) Holt
The Greek Kingdom of Bactria Sidky
The Greeks in Bactria and India W.W. Tarn
The Indo-Greeks A.K. Narain
The Greeks in India : A Survey in Philosophical Understanding, Demetrios Th. Vassilides (https://www.vedamsbooks.com/no15423.htm)
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=96539&highlight=Indogreek+references
Intercourse Between India and the Western World H.G. Rawlinson (http://books.google.ie/books?id=UmMnh1XKJjQC&pg=PA85&dq=baktria&lr=&client=firefox-a#PPP1,M1)

Persian/Parthian

The Persians Maria Brosius
From Cyrus to Alexander: A History of the Persian Empire Pierre Briant
The Parthians Malcolm Colledge
Older book that traces the Parni throughout til the Sassanids.
Shadows in the Desert: Ancient Persia at War Kaveh Farrokh
History of Persia, Sir Percy Sykes. Old but good. Go for the first volume since it deals with the EB timeframe and beyond.
A History of Parthia, George Rawlinson (http://www.gutenberg.org/files/16166/16166-h/16166-h.htm) Old but excellent.
Ancient Persia : from 550 BC to 650 AD, Josef Wiesehöfer (trans. Azizeh Azodi), excellent modern study covering Achaemenid, Arsacid and Sasanian Period (Seleucids are largely ommited, sadly) it is A MUST!
Rome and Persia in late antiquity : neighbours and rivals, by Beate Dignas and Engelbert Winter, very good overview of the development of mtual relations from Carrhae to the fall of Sasanian Empire, studying not only mutual wars, but also the development of the diplomatic protocol, trade and cultural interchange.
History of the Persian Empire, A.T. Olmstead


Pontus

The Foreign policy of Mithridates VI Eupator King of Pontus B.C McGing (http://books.google.com/books?id=8L2S0kuhDTsC&printsec=frontcover&dq=mithridates&lr=&sig=ACfU3U14tLgqQ5MHT2r98QNUGwImATjKgw#PPP1,M1)
Colloquica Pontica
Cambridge Ancient History V. 9, Pontus and its Neighbors, M. Rostovtzeff, H.A. Ormerod
Mithridates the Great, Rome's Indomitable Enemy, Philip Matyszak
The Poison King, Adrienne Mayor



Haydasan

History of Armenia Movses Khorenatsi. A classic.
The Armenians A.E. Redgate
The Kingdom of Armenia M. Chahin
The Pre-History of the Armenians in 2 volumes. Gabriel Soultanian
The Peasantry of Ancient Armenia, The Art of Dionysius Grammarian and his Armenian Interpretations, Political parties in Ancient Armenia, Armenia in the Period of Justinian, all by Nicolas Adontz
Tigranes II and Rome, Hakob H. Manandyan
A History of Armenia, Vahan M. Kurkjian (http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Gazetteer/Places/Asia/Armenia/_Texts/KURARM/home.html)(entire book online)

Rome

Rubicon by Tom Holland
:bullseye: The Fall of the Roman Empire Peter Heather
The Ancient Roman City John E. Stambaugh
History of Rome Theodor Mommsen
History of Rome Indro Montanelli
Claudius by Barbara Levick
War and Imperialism in Republican Rome W.V. Harris
Handbook to Life in Ancient Rome (Lesley and Roy Adkins)
As the Romans Did: A Sourcebook in Roman Social History (Jo-Ann Shelton)
The Cambridge Companion to the Roman Republic (Various)
Greek and Roman Medicine (Ian Dawson)
The Roman World; The Oxford History of the Classical World Boardman, Griffin, Murray ed.
In the Name of Rome:The Men Who Won the Roman Empire Adrian Goldsworthy
The Battle That Stopped Rome: Emperor Augustus, Arminius, and the Slaughter of the Legions in the Teutoburg Forest Peter S. Wells
Good book about the Battle of Teutoburg Forest that is backed up with archaeological evidence. The author, Wells, goes into cultural aspects of Germania during that time. He also talks about how that Battle haunted Rome and inspired the Germanic people for years to come.
Roman Religion, Valerie Warrior
Roman Art, Ramage and Ramage
The Jews in the Roman World, Michael Grant- also pretty much anything he ever wrote is worth looking at
The Enemies of Rome by P. Matyszak
greatest leaders that fought Rome, from Hannibal to Attila. addressed to general public somewhat lacks depth. it is obviously impossible to tell every character's story thoroughly in a single volume. fine read nevertheless.
Scipio Africanus, B. Liddell Hart
The Roman Army at War 100 BC - AD 200, The Complete Roman Army, Roman Warfare, Adrian Goldsworthy
Weapons of the Romans, Michel Feugere
Rome and Her Enemies: An Empire Created and Destroyed By War, Jane Penrose (Ed.). An Osprey Title.
Ancient Rome: A Military and Political History, Christopher S. Mackay.

:bullseye: Caesar Adrian Goldsworthy
Caesar Lt. Col. Theodore Ayrault Dodge
Caesar's Legion: The Epic Saga of Julius Caesar's Elite Tenth Legion and the Armies of Rome
Stephen Dando-Collins


Carthage

Carthage: A History Serge Lancel
The Fall of Carthage by Adrian Goldsworthy
Motya, Unearthing a Lost Civilization, Gaia Servadio
The Carthaginians in Spain, an article in vol. 7 of The Cambridge History A. Schulten
The North African Stones Speak Paul MacKendrick Archeology and its relation to history
Tripolitania DJ Mattingly Very detailed about this part of North Africa
The Phoenicians and the West; Politics, Colonies and Trade Maria Eugenia Aubert Not Carthage specific but a lot of cultural info
The World of the Phoenicians, Sabatino Moscati A decent survey of Carthaginian history on the second half but really worth it for the chapters on culture, religion and language

Hannibal, Ernle Bradford
Hannibal Lt. Col. Theodore Ayrault Dodge
Hannibal's last battle: Zama and fall of Carthage, B. T. Carey.
good narrative on Punic wars, but the beauty of this book is in detailed graphic reconstructions of all major engagements, both at sea and on land.


Celts/Gauls/Germans

The Prehistory of Germanic Europe Schutz
The Ancient Celts Barry Cunliffe
:bullseye: The Celtic Empire, The First Millenium of Celtic History 1000BC - 51 AD, Peter Berresford Ellis
Die Germanen Herwig Wolfram
Die Roemer in Germanien Reihhard Wolters
Der Limes, Geschichte einer Grenze Egon Schallmayer
Die Goten und ihre Geschichte Herwig Wolfram
Geschichte der Kriegskunst, Die Germanen, Vom Kampf der Römer und Germanen bis zum Übergang ins Mittelalter Hans Dellbrück
The Celts Edited by Sabatino Moscati, Otto Hermann Frey, Venceslas Kruta, Barry Raftery, Miklós Szabó 1991.
Celts and the Classical World David Rankin 1996.
Gallia Narbonensis: Southern Gaul in Roman Times A.L.F. Rivet 1990.
The Historical Atlas of the Celtic World, John Haywood- Stretches to modern times but half the book is pertinent to the EB time frame. Good maps.


Lusotannan

The Romans in Spain, 217 BC – AD 117, C.H.V. Sutherland
Roman Spain: Conquest and Assimilation, Leonard A. Curchin (http://books.google.com/books?id=0sg9AAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover#PPP1,M1)
Rome's Enemies (4): Spanish Armies, R. Martinez, R. Trevino, A. McBride
(Osprey, but what the hell) (http://books.google.com/books?id=jz5VJpHXZDAC&printsec=frontcover#PPP1,M1)
Hispaniae: Spain and the Development of Roman Imperialism, 218-82 BC, J. S. Richardson (http://books.google.com/books?id=rCXVeXrRrHAC&printsec=frontcover#PPP1,M1)
The Decline of the Roman Republic, George Long (http://books.google.com/books?id=9nloAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA29&dq=lusitani&lr=) Download it as a PDF.


Britain and Ireland

Roman Ireland Vittorio di Martino
Agricola invaded Ireland! Maybe.
Roman Britain Plantagenet Somerset Fry
The standard work on Roman sites in Britain with plenty of history. Also a good book for IBFD.


Sab'yn

Monuments of South Arabia 1983 Falcon-Oleander Press. Brian Doe- from Teleklos Archelaou
Arabia Felix From the Time of the Queen of Sheba: Eighth Century B.C. to First Century A.D. 1999 University of Notre Dame Press Jean-Francois Breton -from Teleklos Archelaou
Hellenism in the East Amelie Kuhrt, Susan Sherwin-White ed.
A compilation, I read the article The Arab-Persian Gulf under the Seleucids by Jean-Francois Salles- a lot more was going on there than you might think
Ancient South Arabia Klaus Schippman -Qwerty
Das Reich der Königin von Saba, Gabriel Mandel


Getai/Thrace

The Ancient Civilization of Romania E.Condurachi and C. Daicoviciu
The Thracians R.F. Hoddinott
Bulgaria in Antiquity R.F. Hoddinott

All three contain sections on the Getai and their environs in the EB time frame, also tons of photos and cultural info, plus a lot about the Celtic kingdom of Komontorius from ca. 280 to 220 BCE.


Sarmatians/Yuezhi/Saka Rauka

Scythians and Greeks; Cultural Interactions in Scythia, Athens and the Early Empire ed. David Braund Mostly translations of Russian academic works that have not been available in English
The Sarmatians T. Sulimiroki
The World of the Scythians Renate Rolle (translated from German)
The above two books not specific to EB time frame per se but lots of pics and cultural info
UNESCO History of Civilizations of Central Asia, vol. II: The development of sedentary and nomadic civilizations: 700 BC to AD 250. Ed. by Janos Harmatta, with co-editors B.N. Puri and G.F. Etemadi. 1994. Chapters on Parthia, the greek kingdoms of Central Asia, Nomads in east central Asia, the Yueh-chih, The Sakas and Indo-Parthians, the Kushans, languages and scripts in GraecoBactria and the Saca kingdoms, etc.
The Tarim Mummies, JP Mallory and Victor H. Mair
Warriors of the Steppe, Hildinger

Misc

Ancient Cyprus, Veronica Tatton-Brown- A publication of the British Museum

A Bibliography of the Classical Sources germane to EB.

I think it is important to remind people that some (many) of these works are not themselves primary sources, even though they are old. Livy's history of the early republic is a secondary work of scholarship in the same way that Tom Holland's Rubicon is. "Primary" vs. "Secondary" is not better vs. worse, but merely a distinction of kind.

Most of these are available online at either the Library of Ancient Texts Online (http://sites.google.com/site/ancienttexts/) or the Perseus Project (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cache/perscoll_Greco-Roman.html), and they are in the Loeb Library.

Herodotus, The Histories
Xenophon, Anabasis, Hellenica, Cyropaedia, Constitution of Sparta, Ways and Means, The Cavalry General, On Horsemanship
Thucydides, The History of the Peloponnesian War
Aristotle, Athenian Constitution, Politics, Nicomachean Ethics
:bullseye:Polybius, The Histories (The Rise of the Roman Empire)
Plutarch, The Parallel Lives, The Moralia
Aeschines, Against Ctesiphon
Demosthenes, Philippics, Orations
:bullseye:Arrian, The Campaigns of Alexander, Array Against the Alans, Art of Tactics, Indica
:bullseye:G. Julius Caesar, Gallic War, Civil War
Appian, Roman History
Titus Livius, Ad Urbe Condita
M. Tullius Cicero, Too Many to List;try the Verrine Orations and the Caesarian Speeches to start
G. Suetonius Tranquillus, Lives of the Twelve Caesars
Josephus, The Jewish War, Jewish Antiquities, Against Apion
:bullseye:Strabo, The Geograhy
Tacitus, The Histories, The Annals of Imperial Rome, Germania, Agricola
Cassius Dio, Roman History
G. Sallustius Crispus, The Catiline Conspiracy, The Jugurthine War
G. Plinius Caecilius Secundus, Epistulae
Diodorus Siculus, Bibliotheca Historica
Dionysius of Halicarnassus, Roman Antiquities

Podcasts and Other Web Resources

A very selective and short list of some of the better online resources that might be of interest to the EB community. Not intended to be comprehensive.

:bullseye: The History of Rome (http://feeds.feedburner.com/TheHistoryOfRome). Fantastic Podcast, to be found on iTunes. A must for all EB players.
12 Byzantine Rulers: The History of the Byzantine Empire (http://www.anders.com/lectures/lars_brownworth/12_byzantine_rulers/rss.xml). Another fantastic podcast, not in the EB time frame but still worth a listen.
In Our Time (http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/iot/rss.xml). Well known BBC radio programme hosted by Melvyn Baron Bragg. A wide range of subjects, some quite germane to EB. Also on iTunes.

iTunes U offers podcasts of university lectures and courses for free. The sound quality is often mediocre as these are not recorded specifically for webcasting but just as a byproduct of a lecture or symposium. Still some good stuff. You find these by going to the iTunes Store and clicking on iTunesU.

Stanford;

Geography of World Cultures, Martin Lewis
:bullseye: Hannibal, Patrick Hunt
:bullseye: Alexander in Fact, Alexander in Fiction, Alexander's Predecessors John L'Heureux
Egypt's Hold on the Greek Imagination, Marsh McCall

Santa Clara University;
History 110 Roman Republic, Isabelle Pafford

Loyola Marymount University
King Leonidas and the 300 Spartans, 2nd Annual Classics Archaeology Symposium

Indianapolis Museum of Art;
Roman Art at the Louvre

Berkley

History4A: The Ancient Mediterranean World

Google Books (http://books.google.com/bkshp?hl=en&tab=wp) is a good resource for those who don't mind reading online, however unless the book is out of copyright you will only get a partial preview at best.

Digital Book Index (http://www.digitalbookindex.org/_search/search010hstancienta.asp) is a much better source for etexts and pdfs to download: the Ancient History category is 7 webpages long. Most are free: the more recent books are for sale.

The Ancient History Sourcebook (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/asbook.html) has a good selection of classical texts and extracts, some not easily available elsewhere.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Go with stuff much more focused on individual factions, not big sweeping generic works.

N Hammond's The Macedonian State
R.M. Berthold's Rhodes in the Hellenistic Age
G. Holbl's A History of the Ptolemaic Empire (very good)
Holt's Thundering Zeus (Baktria - excellent)
Sidky's The Greek Kingdom of Bactria
Sherwin-White and Kuhrt's From Samarkhand to Sardis (best on Seleukids)
P. Cartledge's Sparta and Lakonia and Hellenistic and Roman Sparta (both are excellent and cheap)
Piper's Spartan Twilight
C. Habicht's Athens From Alexander to Antony
Salmon's Wealthy Corinth
Schutz' The Prehistory of Germanic Europe
Hammond's Epirus
Serge Lancel's Carthage: A History

And if you do absolutely need something huge and that does a great job covering most all things in this period, even though it has to be quite disjointed, try Green's Alexander to Actium.

[Subedei]

May I add one question? Any good books about Parthia or Bactria around? Thank you....

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Those two I listed above are two of the best ones you can find on Bactria. I don't know about the Parthians though. Oh, I forgot to add Serge Lancel's Carthage: A History.

If you can find those books I mentioned above, and if you're serious about any one or few of them, you'll have a really good intermediate handle on most of these subjects.

[paullus]

oxford and cambridge presses have both been putting out "companion" books to various stages or places of the ancient world in recent years (some are still pre-press), and they are quite good, though some of the articles in them can be thicker than others.

Soldiers and Ghosts by Lendon is a good read, though I don't agree with everything he says.
There's a nice, light book by Goldsworthy called In the Name of Rome, its about some of the better Roman generals. Its not very demanding, pretty well-written, and has maps.
Roman War of Antiochos the Great by Grainger is an interesting perspective on the Seleukids and Romans up to Magnesia. Like Lendon, not sure how much I agree, but I liked it.
War in the Hellenistic World by Chaniotis is a well-researched book on issues surrounding war, though not so much about war itself. Its heavy on Krete, so if that's your interest, it and other works by Chaniotis are worth following up.

I'll also echo the quality of Holt's and Holbl's books on TA's list.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Yeah, it's sort of sad that there isn't something bigger and better on the Seleukid empire, but that's that - I get the feeling there may be more work and discoveries in the future here with more publication of Babylonian tablets though. There's a good Religion and Religious Practices in the Seleukid Kingdom published in 1990, but it's sort of specific.

[oudysseos]

Found Carthage: A history and will have a look. Gratias tibi ago. What I'm really interested in is the continuity of Persian history from Cyrus to the Sassanids. Any good reads?

[QwertyMIDX]

Tele mentioned a lot of the ones I would have but here are some others

Pierre Briant's From Cyrus to Alexander: A History of the Persian Empire
Barry Cunliffe's The Ancient Celts
Barry Cunliffe's Greeks, Romans, and Barbarians: Spheres of Interaction
Bar-Kochva's The Seleucid Army: Organisation and Tactics in the Great Campaigns
Raphael Sealey's A History of the Greek City States, 700-338 B. C.
Simon Hornblower's The Greek World 479-323 BC
John E. Stambaugh's The Ancient Roman City

[mcantu]

Go with stuff much more focused on individual factions, not big sweeping generic works.

N Hammond's The Macedonian State
R.M. Berthold's Rhodes in the Hellenistic Age
G. Holbl's A History of the Ptolemaic Empire (very good)
Holt's Thundering Zeus (Baktria - excellent)
Sidky's The Greek Kingdom of Bactria
Sherwin-White and Kuhrt's From Samarkhand to Sardis (best on Seleukids)
P. Cartledge's Sparta and Lakonia and Hellenistic and Roman Sparta (both are excellent and cheap)
Piper's Spartan Twilight
C. Habicht's Athens From Alexander to Antony
Salmon's Wealthy Corinth
Schutz' The Prehistory of Germanic Europe
Hammond's Epirus
Serge Lancel's Carthage: A History

And if you do absolutely need something huge and that does a great job covering most all things in this period, even though it has to be quite disjointed, try Green's Alexander to Actium.

Whoa! Holt was one of my favorite History professors at the University of Houston

[-Praetor-]

Teleklos, Oudisseos, both of you have made my day very happy, and just provided me with entertainment for the closing summer. Thank you very much, guys!!!! I was actually looking for ancient texts to read, but didn`t know which ones were good and deep and others weren`t!!!

A question, how much does those books cost in your country BTW (an average)?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

That Carthage one is hard to find and a little expensive. You can get the Holbl pretty cheap on Amazon and the Athens from Alexander to Antony, both of Cartledge's books on Sparta, and also I'll mention Lionel Casson's Ships and Seamanship in the Ancient World - all of those are pretty cheap in trade paperback on Amazon too. Some others are harder to find.

mcantu - you lucky dog. Holt knows more about Baktria than anyone else writing in English at least (some French might have more archaeological knowledge that hasn't been published yet for all I know).

[Cheexsta]

A very good idea for a thread, may make for some interesting trips to the library for some 'light reading' ~D

Might also pay to compile all of these sources into a single post as well, for easy reference.

[Ignoramus]

A good book about the Tenth Legion is:

Caesar's Legion

I can't remember the author, but it is a very good bock if you're interested in the post-Marius Roman army.

[Subedei]

Thanks to Teleklos Archelaou, Quwerty & all others...yeah this is a very good threat. I will look those up, maybe amazon Germany distribute them. I always wondered where you guys in EB get all the wicked names & units from :bounce: :2thumbsup:

[Mad Guitar Murphy]

Found Carthage: A history and will have a look. Gratias tibi ago. What I'm really interested in is the continuity of Persian history from Cyrus to the Sassanids. Any good reads?

try Persians: An Introduction (Hardcover) by Maria Brosius
http://www.amazon.com/Persians-Introduction-Maria-Brosius/dp/0415320895

It's quite general but not that bad.

[Krusader]

For information and analysis on the Pontic Kings.

B.C McGing: The Foreign policy of Mithridates VI Eupator King of Pontus

[mcantu]

That Carthage one is hard to find and a little expensive. You can get the Holbl pretty cheap on Amazon and the Athens from Alexander to Antony, both of Cartledge's books on Sparta, and also I'll mention Lionel Casson's Ships and Seamanship in the Ancient World - all of those are pretty cheap in trade paperback on Amazon too. Some others are harder to find.

mcantu - you lucky dog. Holt knows more about Baktria than anyone else writing in English at least (some French might have more archaeological knowledge that hasn't been published yet for all I know).

I did luck out...I had him for Western Civ I/II, a class on Rome and one on Alexander. I tried to take his class on Greece but it was allway full...

He told a story once that when he first started teaching, his wife would drive him to work. When he got out of the car she would say a date (any date) and he would have to tell her something that happened in that year

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Yeah, I forgot that one Krusader. For everyone else - McGing's book is the only modern book that is serious scholarship that deals with the kingdom of Pontos, and thankfully it does provide a history of the kingdom too briefly. Better than you'll find anywhere else. It's a shame there isn't a good solid history on the whole kingdom.

Maybe the members could put together a list of no more than three books per faction. Might try that internally and then post and sticky it.

[Aranor]

Wow there are some great books in the list so far. Im wondering what book you guys are using to find your historical facts in regards to the Getai and other Thrakian tribes ( I realise that only the Getai are represented in the game in any real detail~;) ) I ask because I am researching the entirety of Romanian history for a Romanian mod for Civ 4 Warlords ( Shameless plug I know :laugh4: ) and would like to be able to find more solid information on the Getai other than after the Romans invaded.

[Pelopidas]

The French archeological survey on Afghanistan is effectively impressive, but getting a little older now.
Meanwhile, the work was particulary concentrate on the Saka and Hun periods, with extensive search in the evolution of Budhist temple.

I'll warn you as soon as I get my hands on the exact references.

[VandalCarthage]

Edwyn R. Bevan's The House of Seleucus and The House of Ptolemy
Helen S. Lind's Lysimachus: A Portrait of Hellenistic Kingship
W.W. Tarn's The Greeks in Bactria and India
A.K. Narain's The Indo-Greeks
Errington's A History of Macedonia
Petros Garoufalias' Pyrrhos: King of Epirus
T. Boiy's Late Achaemenid and Hellenistic Babylon

Those are some of my favorites in addition to those that Mike and Dave posted; unfortunately most are relatively expensive and Lind's all but completely beyond reach. Bevan's however are a little more at the lower end of the price spectrum, and are truly fantastic texts for the general study of the two states. Another great author I recommend is Plutarch ~;) He was an incredible guy and his lives of Pyrrhus and Eumenes for example are incredibly insightful.

[paullus]

For the Getai and the Thraikians generally, I couldn't point you toward a source that's generally available or readable that I also consider particularly trustworthy. There have been some pretty good archaeological compilations coming out in recent years, or are soon to come out, but aren't as readable as someone like Tarn.

If you want something that covers the Getai, I'd suggest Dacia by Parvan. Make sure its the translated history, not the archaeology report collections (unless that's what you want). Parvan was an excellent archaeologist, but his analysis can be seriously lacking. His nationalist leanings are regularly evident, and result in glaring contradictions (continuity of population in transylvania to the present day, but the real Dacians also left transylvania to maintain independence) or a refusal to incorporate the very evidence he cites (sometimes he understates Celtic influence, or tries to totally separate the Daco-Getae from other Thracians). But its still a good read, just be wary.

[The Celtic Viking]

Greetings fellow EB-fanatics!

I've got one self-inflicted assignment in school to write about why the Roman empire fell, so I would be very grateful if you could throw in some names of good sources concerning that topic. I count to one book already named in here which is all about that topic, so many thanks for that! But the other books mentioned here doesn't seem to cover this aspect adequately for me to buy them (if they cover it at all), so any more tips would be highly valued!

Thanks. ~:)

[oudysseos]

I'll try and collate the suggestions from time to time. Thanks everybody for chipping in.

[abou]

I've started reading Thundering Zeus and it is quite good so far. Granted, I am only about ~40 pages in, but already Holt has done much to rehabilitate images Seleucus I and Antiochus I. I really didn't know how much they had done to make the Seleucid empire what it was, but Holt discusses it.

Seriously, this is a good book to get - especially because of the obscurity of the topic. Go through your library though because buying it is going to cost a lot of money for something that is less than 200 pages.

[-Praetor-]

Hi!

I`ve started reading Flaubert`s Zalambo. Actually the first historic novel, and I`ve read elsewhere that it`s well known for beign a good historic portrait of Carthage`s history...

I can`t think of a better place to ask than here.

Is it accurate? I`ve read some awkward things, such as Baals beign the denomination of not a single god, but the name given to the pantheon of gods... or that Melkart is one of the forms of Moloc...

That`s weird for a noob like me...

But on the other hand, the initial depictions of the city of carthage are stunning for it`s detail.

Soo, has anyone read that novel? It`s pretty old, from 1862, so it shouldn be expensive (thus inaccesible for poor mortals like us)

Cheers!!!

[MSB]

Ancient Rome: The Rise and Fall of an Empire by Simon Baker and Mary Beard
Good book based on the BBC1 series. Includes information on the foundation of Rome, the reforms of Tiberius Graccus, the civil war of Ceasar vs. Pompey, Augustus, Nero, The Jewish Revolt, Hadrian, Constantine and the Western empire's fall.

Ceasar: The Gallic War and Ceasar: The Civil War by Gaius Julius Ceasar
Good writings by Gaius Julius Ceasar about his most famous wars. However it is just a little heavy for under sixteens. Strange that he wrote it in the third person.

[Calgacus]

David Mattingly has just published a book about Britain under Roman rule called 'An Imperial Possession'. It's in the Penguin History of Britain series which David Cannadine has been editing. Having looked at it briefly, it seems quite an intense read - lots of dense factual information from archaeological surveys - but some of his conclusions are very interesting. I imagine it's aimed at later undergraduates who require a core text for a Roman Britain module.

No one seems to have mentioned Tacitus or Arrian, but maybe I just missed the posting? Arrian's 'Campaigns of Alexander' are worth a go, but get a bit wearing after a while - he doesn't seem to have been a particularly inspired writer in terms of style, and no matter what the translators do, it does tend to plod a bit. Also his sources are a bit dodgy, and he seems to have strange ideas about kings never lying.

Tacitus's 'Histories', 'Annals' and both the 'Agricola' and 'Germania' are all worth reading. Their content is excellent, and his style is both easy to follow and eminently quotable. If you haven't already read them, I'd strongly recommend trying them out. The 'Agricola' and 'Germania' are both pretty short (they usually come in the same volume) and are a good way in. The 'Annals' jumps about a bit with its areas of interest, but is, again, extremely good. For me, his best work, because of its overall coherency, is the 'Histories' which details the Year of the Four Emperors.

Also, if you can get access to JSTOR, the online journals resource, there are many. many articles on every conceivable aspect of ancient civilisation. Only trouble is that the number of libraries which subscribe to this are quite limited.

[Publio Cornelio Escipión Africano Mayor]

Don't forget a modern classic....
Theodor Mommsen, History of Rome Literature Nobel Prize 1902.

Or a soft and fast (sometimes funny) reference to roman history.....
Indro Montanelli, History of Rome

[MSB]

Hey! Publio Cornelio Escipión Africano Mayor has got my old avatar. Thought nobody would pick it up.

One that I just ordered today:
Histories: The Rise of the Roman Empireby Polybius
I haven't seen it yet, but it is supposed to have plenty of information about the Roman conquest of the Mediterranean and the early Roman Army. It is, however, supposed to be incredibly hard to understand and interpret. Certainly if you are a younger reader.

[antiochus epiphanes]

hmmn anyone got any good reads on the saka and saroumatae?
id love to get my hands on them.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

An excellent book if you can find it is the UNESCO History of Civilizations of Central Asia, vol. II: The development of sedentary and nomadic civilizations: 700 BC to AD 250. Ed. by Janos Harmatta, with co-editors B.N. Puri and G.F. Etemadi. 1994. Chapters on Parthia, the greek kingdoms of Central Asia, Nomads in east central Asia, the Yueh-chih, The Sakas and Indo-Parthians, the Kushans, languages and scripts in GraecoBactria and the Saca kingdoms, etc.

[oudysseos]

A book that I just finished is Soldiers and Ghosts, a History of Battle in Classical Antiquity, by J.E. Lendon. Very Highly Recommended (by me, at least), not only for it's excellent analysis of developments in military practice from the Greeks to the Romans, but also because of its clear-sighted treatment of the issues and problems inherent to the nature of the historical record.

P.S. At some point after 0.8 comes out ( if there's any interest ) I'll edit the first post of the thread and group the books by subject and title. I do hope that people keep contributing sources.

Oh and thanks to EB for having the inhuman patience to keep up these forums, bearing in mind that the public forums are not a direct part of the modding process. There are some rotten apples in the barrel of EB fans who post, and I am amazed at the forebearance and maturity that the EB devs display most of the time. I'm 39 years old with two kids, and assuming as I do that many (most) of the EB devs are younger than me, I have to say that often I would not have been as patient with some of the know-it-all jerks who berate ye. Kudos!

[olly]

Just thought I'd recommend The Fall of Carthage by Adrian Goldsworthy and also Alexander by Robin Lane Fox (the book the film was based on but don't let thet worry you if you hated the film which I quite liked)

[Geoffrey S]

Just thought I'd recommend The Fall of Carthage by Adrian Goldsworthy and also Alexander by Robin Lane Fox (the book the film was based on but don't let thet worry you if you hated the film which I quite liked)
Whether it's more accurate or not, I much preferred Mary Renault's biography of Alexander due to the passionate style of writing making me realise why men followed him through such perils; particularly in her historical novel written from Bagoas' perspective she presents a believable Alexander with great charisma and personal failings.

[oudysseos]

I agree about Mary Renault- I must have read both the Alexander trilogy and the Theseus books 20 times (seriously).

[oudysseos]

Some more books that I just finished reading-

Hannibal, Ernle Bradford

The Celtic Empire, Celtic History 1000 BC - 51 AD, Peter Berresford Ellis

Empires of the Word, a Language History of the World, Nicholas Ostler

Edit- sorry, I had fogotten that I had already posted all of these books. Mea culpa.

[abou]

How good is Bevan's The House of Seleucus? It is quite old - originally published in 1902. My library has both volumes, the first of which is in my current possession along with From Samarkhand to Sardis. I stumbled upon it by accident when looking for the latter and eagerly checked it out; however, the date puts it as a contemporary of Tarn's work.

After reading Holt's Thundering Zeus, I am very leery of what Tarn has written and his conclusions; if Bevan follows Tarn's trend, I doubt I would want to read The House of Seleucus. What should I expect from it?

[Lucasiewicz]

Peter Green, Alexander to Actium: The Historical Evolution of the Hellenistic Age
Peter Green, Alexander of Macedon

As you can see, I like his work. On the second book; I find it far better reading then Lane's work on Alexander, which is cited here some previous post.

[geala]

Very nice thread!

I wondered a bit about yours sources of information because the time frame and the "unconventionel" factions are not in the focus of everyone. I must frankly admit that I don't know anything about some of the factions despite some interest in ancient and medieval military history for years.:shame:

I will try some books for sure. Most of my books are about later or earlier times so I'm deeply in need of more information.

I like personal stories and what I read with pleasure time after time is Xenophons "Kyrou Anabasis" which "played" 130 years before EB but gives a vivid impression of soldiers problems.

And I like Mary Renaults books, too.:book:

[Zaknafien]

Sweet, what an excellent thread how did I miss this one. Here's a few more contemporary works I've been reading recently.

Handbook to Life in Ancient Rome (Lesley and Roy Adkins)
As the Romans Did: A Sourcebook in Roman Social History (Jo-Ann Shelton)
The Cambridge Companion to the Roman Republic (Various)
Greek and Roman Medicine (Ian Dawson)

[Lucasiewicz]

Ed. Ehsan Yarshater; Encyclopaedia Iranica
This can also be consulted online: http://www.iranica.com

I'm also wondering, has anyone before used this encyclopedia? Because I'm wondering how usefull it is. I discovered it some time ago but haven't gotten the time yet to consult it and compare it to other sources.

[oudysseos]

First post updated.

[oudysseos]

Having reorganized the list I can see where there are some gaps. Can anyone suggest some good reads on Pontus and Armenia?

[oudysseos]

First post updated.

[QwertyMIDX]

Having reorganized the list I can see where there are some gaps. Can anyone suggest some good reads on Pontus and Armenia?

For information about the civilizations around the black sea the Colloquica Pontica collection is great. I'm reading volume 9 right now (about the relationship between the black sea polities and the larger world). Number 12 (Wealth, Aristocracy and Royal Propaganda Under the Hellenistic Kingdom of the Mithradatids in the Central Black Sea Region of Turkey by Deniz Burcu Erciyas. ) is probably a helpful one for EB's Pontus though, it covers 120-63 BC. A number of them are in German or French though, beware.

[oudysseos]

New Book- The Cambridge Companion to the Hellenistic World. Glenn Bugh ed. Great collection of articles, especially 'Hellenistic Military Developments' by the editor and 'Hellenistic Economies' by John Davies.

[cyberVIP]

Just my 50 cents...

Roman faction excellent source of "historical action" with genuine point of view

H.L.Havell "Ancient rome: The republic"

btw my copy in russian (translated) but U'll find original I think

[oudysseos]

First post updated. Does anyone find this useful or interesting? I'll stop if it's a bore.

[Geoffrey S]

Yes, I find it interesting. Certainly allowed me to find a few books I wouldn't have looked for otherwise.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Didn't we have some Saba ones listed here too?

Brian Doe - Monuments of South Arabia 1983 Falcon-Oleander Press.

Jean-Francois Breton - Arabia Felix From the Time of the Queen of Sheba: Eighth Century B.C. to First Century A.D. 1999 University of Notre Dame Press

I'll stick this also if you keep updating it O.

[Gazius]

First post updated. Does anyone find this useful or interesting? I'll stop if it's a bore.

I'm definitely interested in it, and will proceed to hunt down recommended books from the list. I just never felt compelled to say anything about it like many, I suspect.

To those recommending the books, any comments on whether they were really good, highly recommended, or even a mini-review so that those looking might, if the title doesn't cover it, find what they're after if its something specific would be greatly appreciated.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Good idea Gazius - Feel free to give mini-reviews on those books people. We will put your name next to it. Only your own words though please - don't copy something from somewhere else.

[oudysseos]

Hey, great! Thanks for sticky-ing. I will keep it updated and also attribute people's contributions.

[QwertyMIDX]

Didn't we have some Saba ones listed here too?

Brian Doe - Monuments of South Arabia 1983 Falcon-Oleander Press.

Jean-Francois Breton - Arabia Felix From the Time of the Queen of Sheba: Eighth Century B.C. to First Century A.D. 1999 University of Notre Dame Press

I'll stick this also if you keep updating it O.

You forgot Klaus Schippman's Ancient South Arabia.

[Quirinus Kuhlmann]

An excellent and very detailed book about the roman civil wars and the rise of octavianus is "The romen revolution" by the british historian Ronald Symes. It's a classical work from 1939, which also focusses on the many minor characters involved in the story and is written in a both academical and grimly humourous style. It's also good secondary lecture if you watch the amazing "Roma" series on HBO.
"Ceasar" by Christan Meier is also a remarcable Biography, which is translated to english too. He wrote a book called "Athens" too, but I didn't read that yet.

Currently I read a very entertaining historic novel called "Minutus, the roman", by the finnish author Mika Waltarí, (who also wrote the famous "Sinuhe the egypt"), which covers the time of the roman Caesars Claudius and Nero. It's full of details from roman culture and a very fun read.
Also "The pumpkinification of the Divine Claudius" by Seneca the younger is an original anciend text, which is so mean and evil, that it's worth the read, also maybe to extract quotas for future EB builts.

[oudysseos]

Have had a look at the following books, all look very worthwhile. Also updated the first post.

Hellenism in the East Amelie Kuhrt, Susan Sherwin-White ed.
A compilation, I read the article The Arab-Persian Gulf under the Seleucids by Jean-Francois Salles- a lot more was going on there than you might think

The Ancient Civilization of Romania E.Condurachi and C. Daicoviciu
The Thracians R.F. Hoddinott
Bulgaria in Antiquity R.F. Hoddinott

All three contain sections on the Getai and their environs in the EB time frame, also tons of photos and cultural info, plus a lot about the Celtic kingdom of Komontorius from ca. 280 to 220 BCE.

The Sarmatians T. Sulimiroki
The World of the Scythians Renate Rolle

Not specific to EB time frame per se but lots of pics and cultural info
Southern Arabia Brian Doe Very good chapter on Sabaeans and Himyar plus photos and examples of Saba texts and art, this might be the same book as in a previous post.

Unfortunately I can't take these books out of the library (it's reading only) or else I'd start scanning in photos. A project for the future.

[Disciple of Tacitus]

This thread is EXACTLY why I love this game. You guys have fully rounded out my reading list for the year (and then some). Oh, happy, happy, joy, joy.:bounce:

I will add a few of my own asap.

again...:beam:

[oudysseos]

Well i just thought that more knowledge about the Getai (for example) would help with the role playing immersion. It does for me, anyway. I need to imagine myself there in order to retain any interest. Now if only I could put my own pic in the family tree......

[CountArach]

Well I'm about half way through Adrian Goldsworthy's The Men Who Won the Roman Empire, and I highly recommend it. I also enjoyed his Punic Wars (I think that's the name), which covers all 3 of the wars.

[abou]

Well I'm about half way through Adrian Goldsworthy's The Men Who Won the Roman Empire, and I highly recommend it. I also enjoyed his Punic Wars (I think that's the name), which covers all 3 of the wars.
I very much enjoy reading what Goldsworthy has written and he seems to be highly respected. If there is anything that bothers me about him it is that the man loves his pronouns, which sometimes can be confusing for me as a reader.

[Geoffrey S]

I liked his presentation, but found he didn't really add anything to what I already knew or what was already written by others. In particular, his Punic Wars is probably best read alongside Polybius.

[Shifty_GMH]

A good book about the Tenth Legion is:

Caesar's Legion

I can't remember the author, but it is a very good bock if you're interested in the post-Marius Roman army.

The book Ignoramus is talking about is...

Caesar's Legion: The Epic Saga of Julius Caesar's Elite Tenth Legion and the Armies of Rome, Stephen Dando-Collins

As the title suggests the book follows what is known about the 10th Legion from it's conception till it's end. It also mentions information on other legions that fought and/or were stationed around the 10th. Good book from what I remember (been almost two years since I read it).

Stephen Dando-Collins has another book about Rome's Legions entitled Nero's Killing Machine: The True Story of Rome's Remarkable 14th Legion. I have not read it yet, but it is my "to be read" list.

The Battle That Stopped Rome: Emperor Augustus, Arminius, and the Slaughter of the Legions in the Teutoburg Forest, Peter S. Wells

Good book about the Battle (Massacre is more like it) of Teutoburg Forest that is backed up with archaeological evidence. The author, Wells, goes into cultural aspects of Germania during that time. He also talks about how that Battle haunted Rome and inspired the Germanic people for years to come.

Peter S. Well has another book that may be of interest to some. It is entitled The Barbarians Speak: How the Conquered Peoples Shaped Roman Europe. I have not read this so I cannot say anything about it. Just saw it and thought someone might like to know about it.

[Shifty_GMH]

A good book about the Tenth Legion is:

Caesar's Legion

I can't remember the author, but it is a very good bock if you're interested in the post-Marius Roman army.

The book Ignoramus is talking about is...

Caesar's Legion: The Epic Saga of Julius Caesar's Elite Tenth Legion and the Armies of Rome, Stephen Dando-Collins

As the title suggests the book follows what is known about the 10th Legion from it's conception till it's end. It also mentions information on other legions that fought and/or were stationed around the 10th. Good book from what I remember (been almost two years since I read it).

Stephen Dando-Collins has another book about Rome's Legions entitled Nero's Killing Machine: The True Story of Rome's Remarkable 14th Legion. I have not read it yet, but it is my "to be read" list.

The Battle That Stopped Rome: Emperor Augustus, Arminius, and the Slaughter of the Legions in the Teutoburg Forest, Peter S. Wells

Good book about the Battle (Massacre is more like it) of Teutoburg Forest that is backed up with archaeological evidence. The author, Wells, goes into cultural aspects of Germania during that time. He also talks about how that Battle haunted Rome and inspired the Germanic people for years to come.

*Not sure why it double posted. Feel free to delete this duplicate.*

[oudysseos]

Some new books-

The Genius of Alexander the Great N.G. Hammond

Warfare in the Classical World John Warry

Warfare in the Ancient World Brian Todd Carey; Joshua B. Allfree,; John Cairns

posted by Eduorius

Cambridge Ancient History vol 7
A standard work, every college library and most good public libraries will have a set. Volume 7 covers the EB period for All the Diadochi/Greek factions, as well as Epirus and lots on Rome. Perhaps the best one-stop-shop for an overview of the period. The following articles were very good:
The Aetolian League; Social Changes in Greece; Greece after Pyrrhus' Death; The Greek Leagues and Macedonia all by Tarn
The Carthaginians in Spain A. Schulten


The Parthians Malcolm Colledge
Older book that traces the Parni throughout til the Sassanids.

A History of the Greek Workd 323-146 BC M. Cary
Very Hellono-centric, nothing really new but later chapters on economics and governments in post Alexandrine Greece very interesting


The Hellenistic World and the Coming of Rome Erich Gruen
Only had a chance to skim through this but a very interesting work: not a chronological history but more an analysis of the impact on Greek thought and life of Roman dominance, i.e. how the previously world-conquering hellenes adjusted to being conquered.

Will update the first post, also with SPQR's post.

[oudysseos]

Just wondering if anyone has any access to the Journal of Hellenistic Studies- looks like it could be an excellent source

[QwertyMIDX]

Yeah, I imagine most University students have access to it, I do.

[abou]

Just wondering if anyone has any access to the Journal of Hellenistic Studies- looks like it could be an excellent source
If you are at a university then chances are that you can get access to jstor.org through your library, which has the journal in it's database as well as several others.

[oudysseos]

Thanks guys, my uni does indeed have JSTOR, but there is a fairly harsh policy on printing/photocopying, so it'll be time-consuming to write out extracts by hand. I'll have more time in a few weeks.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Just a note: You can save jstor articles as pdf files, then put them on a flash drive and bring them back home with you or wherever. I've got a ton on my home computer that doesn't have jstor access (when I go to the university library and download and save every article I think I might need, then bring it back with me).

[oudysseos]

Thanks for the tip TA! I'm ashamed to admit that I never thjought of thrat. I will do that next week when I get a chance to pop into campus.

[abou]

Does your university have a proxy option, TA? I know mine does so I can access jstor.org from my apartment as long as I go through my library website first.

[Geoffrey S]

I've logged on to JSTOR using the proxy option from my library's website, but I can't find Journal of Hellenistic Studies; there is a Journal of Hellenic Studies, but that one only runs until 2003. Is that the one you mean?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Yeah, that is it. Hellenic, not Hellenistic.

[oudysseos]

Being doing some research into Carthage (sorry I'm late Tanit but I'll PM you today) and have found some very good books on the subject.

The North African Stones Speak Paul MacKendrick Archeology and its relation to history

Tripolitania DJ Mattingly Very detailed about this part of North Africa

The Phoenicians and the West; Politics, Colonies and Trade Maria Eugenia Aubert Not Carthage specific but a lot of cultural info

The Illyrians John Wilkes Fantastic book- v. good on the differences between the Illyrians and the Greeks, really puts them in context

Scythians and Greeks; Cultural Interactions in Scythia, Athens and the Early Empire ed. David Braund Mostly translations of Russian academic works that have not been available in English

The Social and Economic History of the Greek World M. Rostovtzeff
( 3 volumes ) Covers the EB period in depth with great chapters on the 'minor monarchies' (Pergamon, Pontus, Galatia, Bithynia and the Black Sea City-statesand the Bosporan Kingdom)

Will update the first post.

[Gazius]

Are most academic journals locked behind school requirements and/or large mnai requirements? I'd love to get my hands on any I can find, but am not really sure where to even begin searching. Just [subject matter] + journal?

[Al-Masri]

Here's a new book on the Parthians that has not been put up here yet:

Shadows in the Desert: Ancient Persia at War Kaveh Farrokh- will be out next month, area of focus seems to fit this timeline.

[Count Belisarius]

Alexander
Hannibal
Caesar
Lt. Col. Theodore Ayrault Dodge. Although somewhat dated, having been written before the turn of the last century, these books are still excellent secondary sources. After all, Dodge drew on Polybius, Livy, Caesar and the other original authors, just as Goldworthy, et al. draw on today.

They're styled as biographies, but these books present a great deal of background information. I personally found his hagiography of Hannibal Barca a bit tiresome, not to mention the fact that he ranked Scipio Africanus as the third-best ROMAN general of the Second Punic War, behind Fabius Maximus and Claudius Nero, solely because Scipio made Dodge's hero Hannibal look bad. Even so, the books are quite useful, and readable to boot.

Warfare in Antiquity
Hans Delbruck. Excellent book for getting a feel for the evolution of warfare in the ancient West, with a surprising amount of detail for a survey work.

[Varg1204]

:viking: :viking: :viking: :viking:

Swebiz faction literature :book:

sources:

- P. Cornelius Tacitus: Germania
- Gaius Iulius Caesar: De Bello Gallico

secondary literature: (all are in German language, titles are translated by myself)
- Herwig Wolfram: Die Germanen [The Germanics]
- Reinhard Wolters: Die Römer in Germanien [The Romans in Germania]
- Egon Schallmayer: Der Limes, Geschichte einer Grenze [The Limes, History of a frontier]
- Herwig Wolfram: Die Goten und ihre Geschichte [The Goths and their history]
- Hans Dellbrück: Geschichte der Kriegskunst, Die Germanen, Vom Kampf der Römer und Germanen bis zum Übergang ins Mittelalter [History of the Art of War, The Germanics, On the Fight between Romans and Germanics untill the Beginning of the Middle Age]

[abou]

Hey, could someone put an asterisk and footnote to some of the older sources - specifically works by Tarn and Bevan. Many of their ideas have been shown to be flat out wrong due to two reasons: the first is that not enough was known at the time they published (early 1900s); the other problem is that sometimes they let their imagination really run wild (Tarn is terrible at this).

[varuna]

It will be nice to have all those materials as online content (e-book or any other electronic content) I sure it will very helpful for peoples like me who doesn't have adequate resource to acquire such books collection

[abou]

Oh, I totally agree. I spend more time searching the index than strictly reading through the books that I get. It would also probably stem the cost of many books. It is a systemic problem - and it is like that for a number of reasons. In fact, there is a second edition of a book that I desparately want a copy of, but it is mired in manuscript form because no one wants to publish it.

*sigh* If only we had an EB Press...

[varuna]

EB Press sound fantastic, what about establish this kind of stuff (EB Press although not literaly) so every player are able to study ancient history and playing game at the same time. It's a perfect combination of "A Great Game & A Great Mod" thus archieving education & entertainment value in one pack.

[oudysseos]

First post updated.


I haven't been keeping this thread up due to real life commitments. Sorry, I'll try and keep it more up to date.

I have been reading a few good books lately:

Greek Warfare: Myths and Realities Hans van Wees
Absolutely critical book to read for analysis of hoplite/phalanx fighting
The Extraordinary Voyage of Pytheas the Greek Barry Cunliffe
A Massaliot Greek's travels to Britain in 320 BC, and lots of stuff about the interaction between the Hellenic and Celtic worlds. Well written.
Roman Ireland Vittorio di Martino
Agricola invaded Ireland! Maybe.
Roman Britain Plantagenet Somerset Fry
The standard work on Roman sites in Britain with plenty of history. Also a good book for IBFD.
The Bloody Crucible of Courage: Fighting Methods and Combat Experience of the American Civil War Brent Nosworthy
Off topic but still germane: the psychology and methods of line infantry and great explanations of logistics, terrain and the impact of technology on warfare.


I think it was Abou who commented that some of the sources that have made it on to the bibliography are quite dated (Tarn, Dodge, many others). This is true, but my purpose in this thread was to provide a resource, not literary/historical criticism. Of course these are books that I and other people have liked reading and felt were worthy of inclusion, but it is up to the individual to make their own decisions about what to read. Perhaps another thread, discussing the merits of whatever sources?

[Geoffrey S]

Cunliffe's work on Pytheas is brilliant. It's not an exact reproduction of his voyage, which would be impossible, but a very enlightening step-by-step depiction of the sights he could have seen considering his most likely route. Fascinating, easy to read, and a perfect introduction to people just starting to read about northern Europe in Classical times.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Really enjoying the reference qualities of:

McLean (2002). An Introduction to Greek Epigraphy of the Hellenistic and Roman Periods from Alexander the Great down to the Reign of Constantine (323 B.C. - A.D. 337).

It really is a great book, with articles on everything from calendar systems to magistrate titles to orthography of letter styles to changes in Greek pronunciation to Greek onomastics.

[Sarkiss]

Having reorganized the list I can see where there are some gaps. Can anyone suggest some good reads on Pontus and Armenia?
i found this one on Armenia.
http://www.amazon.com/Kingdom-Armenia-New-Caucasus-World/dp/0700714529/ref=sr_1_1/103-5629654-0201407?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182807716&sr=8-1
im still waiting for it to arrive so not sure of a content, but was told that an author has some interesting if not to say controversial views.

spend a fortune lately buying books on ancient warfare.
what i bought and would deffinetly recommend are:
GREECE AND ROME AT WAR by Peter Connoly
THE COMPLETE ROMAN ARMY by Adrian Goldsworthy
CANNAE the same author
these two are nicely decorated have an abundance of pics and illustrations, and schemes attached. nice read comes at a price of £25 each though.
i also bought ROME AND HER ENEMIES by 'Osprey', but found it too brief and shalow.

right now reading above mentioned very old issue of HANNIBAL by colonel Dodge.

[Geoffrey S]

Right now I'm looking for something to read about the Western Greek colonies; prefereably something that covers as many areas as possible, but something focusing on either Syracuse, Massilia (although I may have found something for that one already) or the Greek presence in southern France and eastern Spain would be great too. Has anyone got any tips?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

There is relatively little I have found Geof. I have just got some articles or chapters in books really. Greek Colonists and Native Populations has some stuff, as does Ancient Greeks: West and East.

[oudysseos]

It's my birthday so I treated myself to a couple of books.

Barbarians, Terry Jones

and

Black Athena volume One: The Fabrication of Ancient Greece 1785-1985, Martin Bernal

The Terry Jones book should be required reading for everyone playing and/or developing Europa Barbarorum. The former Python has created a BBC Television series, and now a book, that could serve as the EB mission statement. Buy it now!

The Bernal book is probably well-known to some of the devs and is highly controversial. I am excited about reading it.

P.S. People's Front of Judea! Romanes Eunt Domus!

[oudysseos]

I have been meaning to do this for while: a bibliography of the Classical Sources germane to EB.

I think it is important to remind people that some (many) of these works are not themselves primary sources, even though they are old. Livy's history of the early republic is a secondary work of scholarship in the same way that Tom Holland's Rubicon is. "Primary" vs. "Secondary" is not better vs. worse, but merely a distinction of kind.


Herodotus, The Histories
Xenophon, Anabasis, Hellenica, Cyropaedia, Constitution of Sparta, Ways and Means, The Cavalry General, On Horsemanship
Thucydides, The History of the Peloponnesian War
Polybius, The Histories (The Rise of the Roman Empire)
Plutarch, The Parallel Lives, The Moralia
Aeschines, Against Ctesiphon
Demosthenes, Philippics, Orations
Arrian, The Campaigns of Alexander
G. Julius Caesar, Gallic War, Civil War
Livy, Ad Urbe Condita
Cicero, Too Many to List;try the Verrine Orations and the Caesarian Speeches to start
Suetonius, Lives of the Twelve Caesars
Tacitus, The Histories, The Annals of Imperial Rome, Germania, Agricola
Sallust, The Catiline Conspiracy, The Jugurthine War
Pliny
Seneca



I know I'm probably missing a few but I'm tired and in a hurry. If anyone wants to suggest some additions I'll add them in. Long live the People's Front of Judea.

[oudysseos]

First Post Updated.


I sat in Hodges and Figges (famous Dublin bookstore) for a couple of hours (really comfy chairs) and read 2/3 of a book that I highly recommend. The City of Sharp Nosed Fish, Greeks Lives in Roman Egypt, by Peter Parsons, is the story of the late 19th century expedition of Grenfell and Hunt to the ruins of Oxyrhynchos, outside of Cairo, where they found a massive horde of papyri detailing the everyday lives of Greek colonist in Egypt from Alexander up to Roman times. Fascinating.

[Geoffrey S]

There is relatively little I have found Geof. I have just got some articles or chapters in books really. Greek Colonists and Native Populations has some stuff, as does Ancient Greeks: West and East.
Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for those. Also, the recommendation of Thundering Zeus is great. I just read it on holiday and it's a fascinating book illuminating not only the history of Greek Baktria but also the methods used to come to those conclusions.

It's probably a question for another topic, but anyway: has the EB team ever considered making a minting building, possibly using the original RTW races building to set the production amount? It seems that minting coins was an essential propoganda tool and certainly an economic boon, but is as yet unrepresented in EB to my knowledge.

[abou]

We might for EB2, but we're short on complexes for EB1.

PS. I thought Thundering Zeus was a great book too. If only it wasn't so expensive for how thin it is. The only books more expensive are Seleukid ones. Seriously guys, thank your libraries for existing.

[Philip of Massalia]

:help: I'm curious to know what sources were used to design the skin of the Massaliotes Hoplitai.

Well, my name is the reason :beam:

[Centurion Varricus]

Couldnt see it mentioned before so I would like to recomend

The Western Way of War
by Victor Daivs Hanson

The book is dedicated to the soldier fighting in the phalanx in the hellenistic period. Sections on why they fought, their armour and weapons, morale & leadership, the charge, the close combat fighting, wounds and treatment.

[Geoffrey S]

Just keep an eye out for when he mixes in his political opinions...

[abou]

For those curious, a great book on Roman art and architecture is Roman Art by Ramage and Ramage. Learning the artwork is quite important to understanding politics and Roman thinking. Plus, it is extensively illustrated. I highly suggest it.

[Philip of Massalia]

:help: I'm curious to know what sources were used to design the skin of the Massaliotes Hoplitai.

Well, my name is the reason :beam:

Well, I'd really love to know the answer, this skin is nice but I can't trace its sources.

[Spvrrina Vestricivs]

Warhorse: Cavalry In Ancient Warfare by Philip Sidnell. Concentrates mainly on Roman and Greek cavalry and highlights why the stirrup wasn't all that big a deal for cavalry.

[oudysseos]

First post updated with recent suggestions. Thanks for the continuing interest!

[oudysseos]

First post updated. Thanks to Sarkiss for Armenian sources.

[Digby Tatham Warter]

Does anyone rate Appians the Iberian wars? I quite liked it, but I have no real experience with these 'old' primary/secondary source books, it's only the 3rd I've read, Caesars Gallic wars and Xenophons 10,000 being the others.

It's EB's fault that I've become somewhat interested in the 'classics'.
I do struggle though if their abit heavy/on the dry side. Barchovas(spelling?) work on the Seleucids I found a tad hard going. Now there's a book that one is glad that my local library is willing to source these things for me(costs £1).

I am mainly interested in first hand accounts of combat, and tactics as a secondary interest. Anyone here willinging to make any interest nourishing segestions?

[Tarkus]

Thanks so much, oudysseos, for putting together this bibliography -- I'm a bit new to this period of history and this is a true goldmine of opportunity for me!

I assume most people here are burned out on Roman history, but I'm still a bit surprised at the relatively short list of books listed here on the subject. Additionally, it seems like most of the books focus on the later stages of the Empire. At this point I'm interested in reading about the early phases of the Empire, specifically the late Camillan - early Polybian transition, the Samnite wars, and the early conflicts with Phyrros and Carthage. Does anybody have any suggestions of some good reading on this subject?

Thanks again!

[oudysseos]

36 Books on the list mainly concerned with Rome: seems like a good few to start with. Also bear in mind that many books not directly about Rome will nonetheless have a great deal to do with Roman history: anything about Carthage, for example. And there are lots and lots of popular histories about Rome on the shelves of any bookstore, so I think we're spoiled for choice there. Personally I'd like to see some more about Pontus and Mithradates, or something really detailed about the Achaean and Aitolian Leagues- they usually only turn up as background in another history.

For the period you mentioned Polybius is a great place to start. Freeman's Egypt, Greece and Rome is also very good on the earlier period, if a bit general.

[Tarkus]

I was specifically referring to the 20 books listed directly under the Rome heading in the list. But of course you're right in pointing out such other works as Polybius and the other classical sources...didn't mean to exclude them from the list...shows my noob ignorance...

Today I picked up a general but good-looking reference titled Rome and Her Enemies: An Empire Created and Destroyed By War by Jane Penrose (Ed.). It's an Osprey title so it's got alot of the artwork on uniforms, etc. we've come to know and love. I'll give it a preliminary recommendation!

On to Polybius! Thanks for the advice.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

That book you want on the Aitolian League is available. Try getting "The Politics of Plunder" - it's pretty new and very detailed, and cheap too.

[Sarkiss]

I was specifically referring to the 20 books listed directly under the Rome heading in the list. But of course you're right in pointing out such other works as Polybius and the other classical sources...didn't mean to exclude them from the list...shows my noob ignorance...

Today I picked up a general but good-looking reference titled Rome and Her Enemies: An Empire Created and Destroyed By War by Jane Penrose (Ed.). It's an Osprey title so it's got alot of the artwork on uniforms, etc. we've come to know and love. I'll give it a preliminary recommendation!

i was seduced by Osprey's colourful pics too :laugh4: but been dissapointed after buying it. too shallow, more for a general public and doesnt cover as much as it could.

here is another addition to "Works on Military Theory and Armies" section:
Alexander the Great and the logistics of the Macedonian Army by Donald W. Engels.
just started reading it. the title says it all.

[Strategy]

May I just mention that some time ago (quite a long time actually... what can I say, I've been busy...), I created a Hellenistic and Roman Bibliography (http://www.fenrir.dk/history/database/) which is a intended as a web database for of books and articles on Hellenistic and Roman history.

It currently contains some 60 books and articles.

It is a Wiki, which means anyone who will take the trouble to register may add and edit to their hearts content. I would be pleased if people would take the time to do so, e.g., with the books they have listed here (if it gets used more, I'd probably also update the software for WikIndx, which is actually quite a nifty little system, despite its occasionally cumbersome interface).

Good reading.

[HamilcarBarca]

This thread is a disgrace!

I just spent US$ 300 on Amazon buying some of the titles mentioned here that I was not aware of!:help:

H.

[oudysseos]

Oh Hamilcar, if only you knew how mad my wife gets when I buy another book... little does she suspect that I still plan to buy the entire Cambridge Classical History (20 volumes or so) one day. My kids don't like school anyways. Who needs money for college?

Believe me I sympathize. The only advice that I can give you is to haunt used bookstores. There are some good ones where I live (Dublin). And charity shops like Oxfam can be a surprisingly good source for serious books (if you keep checking). Also, libraries are a good thing, and there are used books available for sale online. Try www.abebooks.com, and of course ebay.
If the EB community was physically closer together, I would suggest starting a book exchange. Maybe we could start up an EB Facebook group or something? Too bad new books aren't available for online reading.

First post updated.


P.S. @ Teleklos- I miss 'The diet coke of Evil'.

P.P.S. A note on Osprey books. I include them because I kinda like them- sometimes looking at a well-done 'artist's conception' helps me to understand something in a way that words or pictures or archeological finds does not. Also I like to read in the bathtub. And my kids like them.
The Osprey books are probably not at the highest level of academic rigour, but I do think that they have some value, so, like everything, read them and make up your own mind.

[Sarkiss]

Oh Hamilcar, if only you knew how mad my wife gets when I buy another book... little does she suspect that I still plan to buy the entire Cambridge Classical History (20 volumes or so) one day.
luckily i dont have that problem JUST YET:laugh4:
poped into Foyles yesterday and after torturing my wife browsing books for half an hour i was ready to leave, but she said we aint leaving until i buy something:whip: :laugh4: so here it is Philip of Macedon by Professor Nicholas Hammond. was actually looking for something on Mithridates and Pontus...
EDIT: oh, and if you havent guessed already, the books is about Philip II.

[edyzmedieval]

Anyone know how good is Graham Shipley's Greek World after Alexander? 600 pages, seems a good book.

[Lusitani]

Great thread....probably the best...thanks for the info.

[Power2the1]

I would recommend The Celts A History by Peter Berresford Ellis.

Brief synopsis: Contains "niche" information that the majority of Celtic books, that are easy to get your hands on, have not published. Presentation is laid out well, and might be a bit pro Celtic in a few areas, but, theres always a reason why, and the book is balanced on each topic. Once finished, you will not consider the Celts a member of the "barbarian factions" again, and, you'll have a stronger view that the Romans were not as advanced as common culture might have mislead you to believe. Recommended for easy, light readers and heavy readers looking for more.

[Quintus Aurelius]

Pardon me, if this has asked before..

Some Quotes in the game come from a source called "Cycle of Telam".

I am very interested in history of the acient world, but i´ve never heard about it.

Can someone please tell me, is this a book? Where can i read more about it?

Edit:
Never mind, i got it

[matte89]

I think i need to get my hands on some of these books, so far i only read fictional books about ceasar and that sort of thing. I got a huge collection of WW2 history, perhaps its time to add the ancient warfare :2thumbsup:

[Beefy187]

Sorry if it doesnt fit here

Im trying find a primary source on Pre Phillip and during Phillips rule Macedonia (Phillip II). However I cant find any source besides Demosthenes and his a bit biased..

Im especially intrested about the primary sources on Macedonian military before Philip and Greek world during Philips rule.

Could anybody help me out?

[Sarkiss]

interested in modern accounts?
http://www.amazon.com/Shadow-Olympus-Emergence-Princeton-Paperbacks/dp/0691055491

[Intranetusa]

"Black Athena" ...sigh, a sad piece of Afrocentric distortion that caters to afrocentrists and black supremacists.

He should've stuck to his original field of study - East Asia...but then again, he might've published something called "Black Shang"... :(

IMO, the racist IPOAA sucks as much as the KKK, Nation of Islam, and neo nazis.

[HamilcarBarca]

Sherwin-White and Kuhrt's From Samarkhand to Sardis (best on Seleukids)

Amazon is charging $1,200.00 for this book! Can you believe that!

Its a scandal!

H.

[Strategy]

Amazon is charging $1,200.00 for this book! Can you believe that!

Its a scandal!


I'm happy I have it then. :2thumbsup:

[Tarkus]

Pardon me, if this has asked before..

Some Quotes in the game come from a source called "Cycle of Telam".

I am very interested in history of the acient world, but i´ve never heard about it.

Can someone please tell me, is this a book? Where can i read more about it?

Edit:
Never mind, i got it

I assume you checked this thread:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=95156&highlight=Telam

So what's your conclusion?

[Senatus Populusque Romanus]

Surely you read a lot of books :)

[cmacq]

I had to actually dig these up out of my library. I relocated two online. I didn't see these above? All very hardcore history and archaeology, hope they help.

The Celts
Edited by Sabatino Moscati, Otto Hermann Frey, Venceslas Kruta, Barry Raftery, Miklós Szabó 1991.
http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=62941063

Celts and the Classical World
David Rankin 1996.
http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=103475919

Gallia Narbonensis: Southern Gaul in Roman Times
A.L.F. Rivet 1990.
sorry no link

I've a number of German, French, and Italian titles on same subject, if you like, as well?

The Role of Metals in Ancient Greek History
Michail Yu Treister 1996.
http://books.google.com/books?id=dcT...9STk#PPA185,M1

The Macedonian Empire: The Era of Warfare Under Philip II and Alexander the Great 359-323 BC.
James R. Ashley 1998.
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&...EyYpTO0nXpzv8o

Philip II and Alexander the Great
Edmund M. Burke in Military Affairs, Vol. 47, No. 2 (Apr., 1983), pp. 67-70
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=002...OR-enlargePage

The Ars Tactica of Arrian: Tradition and Originality
Philip A. Stadter in Classical Philology, Vol. 73, No. 2 (Apr., 1978), pp. 117-128
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=000...OR-enlargePage

Found these works online as well.

Quintus Curtius Rufus -Historiae Alexandri Magni
http://la.wikisource.org/wiki/Historia_Alexandri_Magni_regis_Macedonum
Marcus Iunianius Iustinus -Epitoma Historiarum Philippicarum
http://la.wikisource.org/wiki/Historiarum_Philippicarum_libri_XLIV

[CirdanDharix]

I'm somewhat surprised not to see Alexander to Actium (Peter Green, 1990) in the bibliography. It's not the best or most detailed book, but it remains a fair general overview of the period. By the way, it's Social and Economic History of the Hellenistic World, not Social and Economic History of the Greek World, that Rostovtzeff wrote (sorry for the nitpick).

For Carthage, Hannibal (Serge Lancel--translated into English 1998 http://www.amazon.com/Hannibal-Serge-Lancel/dp/0631206310 ) is a good account of Hannibal's life and the context in which he lived.

[oudysseos]

Sorry have not updated recently, waiting for baby to be born next week. Will include all recent posts soon I promise. Happy New Year.

[Disciple of Tacitus]

This is a wonderful thread. I appreciate everyone's contributions. Good luck with all things small and screaming, Oudysseos.

[Anakuj]

Congratulations to your baby, Oudysseos!!! :birthday2:

[Tarkus]

Congrats on the new family addition, Oudysseos!! As father of twins, I have felt your pain...:balloon2: :balloon2: :balloon2:

[The Wandering Scholar]

Phew, i'm needing some new reading material.

[oudysseos]

First post updated.

Re: JSTOR- I haven't included some of cmacqs suggestions as not everybody has access to JSTOR resources (unfortunately).

@CirdanDarhix- both those books have been on the list for a long time and are well worth reading.

About the new section: Podcasts!! Check these out, some of them are great. If ye know of any other good pod- or webcasts let me know. iTunes U in particular is a great resource for all kinds of learning.

Sorry I haven't been keeping this current. Changing lots of nappies recently.

[Sarkiss]

Sorry I haven't been keeping this current. Changing lots of nappies recently.
congrats. :beam:
EDIT: Podcasts rock, thanks!

[V.T. Marvin]

Maybe it is already well-known, but for me it is a newly discovered amazing new world - THE GOOGLE BOOKS!!!:book: :dizzy2:

Just to give a few examples of not-so-much-cut-down books relevant to EB timeframe:

Shadows in the Desert: Ancient Persia at War by Kaveh Farrokh (2007)
http://books.google.com/books?id=p7kltwf9yrwC&hl=cs

Ancient Persia: From 550 BC to 650 AD by Josef Wiesehöfer (1996)
http://books.google.com/books?id=yFocMaM49SgC&hl=cs

With Arrow, Sword, and Spear: A History of Warfare in the Ancient World by Alfred S. Bradford (2000)
http://books.google.com/books?id=dY86rHCI1I8C&hl=cs

Besieged: Siege Warfare in the Ancient World by Duncan B. Campbell
http://books.google.com/books?id=JuK01ghSbm4C&hl=cs

and many many others:2thumbsup:

[I Am Herenow]

Ach, I was going to suggest The History of Rome and 12 Byzantine Rulers but someone beat me to it! Can I just add, though, that The History of Rome really is an excellent podcast and the only one at the moment whose episodes I will listen to as soon as they come out. Also, 12 Byzantine Rulers has its own reading list, which is given in the last episode, although I suppose its contents are not wholly appropriate for an EB bibliography.

[oudysseos]

First Post Updated.

VT Marvin- I linked to Google Books, but didn't list your selections. This is really meant to be a bibliography of actual, physical books that people have actually read, and not an exhaustive list of all available online resources. I know that I have blurred the boundaries somewhat with the podcasts et cetera.

Sarkiss- Thanks for the books on Armenia. We're still very light on Pontus, anybody?

The first post is getting very long. Any suggestions on how to make it more manageable? An I hope that this thread has been useful.

PS At risk of a big ole can o worms being opened... http://www.maryjones.us/ctexts/index.html is an excellent link for anyone interested in the whole Cycle of Telam controversy.

[Strategos Alexandros]

Does anybody know where I could get hold of a copy of The Cambridge History of the Classical World vol 7? I can't seem to find it anywhere. :sweatdrop:

[Sarkiss]

We're still very light on Pontus, anybody?

actuall, not so long ago i read a book on Mithridates Eupator written by a Soviet scholar... it is in Russian though... not sure if there is English translation at all.

[oudysseos]

http://www.cambridge.org/uk/browse/browse_highlights.asp?subjectid=1009088

That's the source for the Cambridge History. A full set costs €1000 or more. Most big universities have copies in their libraries, and the better municipal libraries will have one too. Good luck.

[Strategos Alexandros]

Thanks. :2thumbsup:

[Disciple of Tacitus]

Tacitus is very sad, b/c he just noticed that there is no Iberian section.

:sweatdrop:

That's a tear drop, not a sweatdrop. I have very little to put on the list and my study is under renovation, so my books are everywhere. And we all know how quickly D.I.Y. projects go. :embarassed:

[oudysseos]

Good point. Nobody has suggested any Iberian faction specific books. If I run across any I'll put them up.

[fenix3279]

Sorry for the necro post but this has been a very interesting topic. I've been searching for books in my local library about the ancient celts. Over there, I've seen most of the suggested books all of you posted on the forums but there are too many choices to choose from. I don't read alot of books regarding ancient history so I need something that a "beginner" can still delve into without feeling too overewhelmed. Of course, I would like it to be equally informative as well as fun to read. I was leaning toward The Ancient Celts by Barry Cunliffe. Any other suggestions?

[oudysseos]

@ Defiant- The Cunliffe books (he has written a few) are all good, as is the Peter Beresford Ellis book listed, and both should be readily available in a good public library. Also, try

The Historical Atlas of the Celtic World, John Haywood- Stretches to modern times but half the book is pertinent to the EB time frame. Good maps.

I can also recommend;

Ancient Cyprus, Veronica Tatton-Brown- A publication of the British Museum

Cleopatra, Ernle Bradford- Begins with a concise and informative overview of the Ptolemies, and includes the most interesting analysis of Caesar's character I have ever seen. Made me think.

The Nature of Alexander the Great, Mary Renault- The Grandmother of Classical Historical Fiction gives her non-fic opinion of Al. Well written and also provides a glimpse behind the scenes of her famous trilogy.


Still nothing this end about the Lusotanann. But as an added bonus, I found ER Bevan's The House of Ptolemy as a hyper-text online book. It might be the only way this essential classic is accessible to most EBers. Enjoy.

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Gazetteer/Places/Africa/Egypt/_Texts/BEVHOP/home.html

First post updated.

[fenix3279]

Awesome. Thanks for all the suggestions :2thumbsup:

[fenix3279]

Also, while I was at my library, I saw this book while I was searching for The Ancient Celts by Barry Cunliffe. It's called The Celts by Gerhard Herm. I'm not familiar with this. Anyone else know anything about the book or the author?

[Theodotos I]

I just finished reading J.E. Lendon’s 2005 book entitled Soldiers and Ghosts: A History of Battle in Classical Antiquity and found it quite a fascinating read. As he says in the author’s notes, it is a book about Why—why things changed when and where they did. Whether his conclusions are accurate, I have no idea. Did find a touch of humor in his account of the Spartan hoplites at the Battle of Lechaeum and their reaction to the peltasts deployed by Iphicrates. Their (disastrous) tactics are exactly the same as those used by the RTW AI whenever it’s confronted by skirmishers or horse archers or whatever! Anyway, I may have figured out where CA got it’s inspiration. I noticed it was in the bibliography but would be interested to hear any opinions of the book.

[oudysseos]

Soldiers and Ghostsis totally an excellent book. I sometimes think that it together with Wees' Greek Warfare: Myths and Realities should be required reading before posting anything about the technical aspects of hellenistic battle ~;) .

A couple of books that are worth reading but slightly off the EB timeframe, so I won't put them in the first post.

The Golden Age of Persia Richard Frye. Only the first third deals with Achaemenid, Seleucid and Arsacid Persia and the rest is the Sassies and Islam, but it's great to get a non-Greco-Roman view of the area.

The Triumph of the West JM Roberts. Again, covers a much broader period than EB, but the first few chapters provides a litttle perspective on some of the reasons that Greco-Roman civilization was so successful. This is not a 'West is Best' book at all.

Helen of Troy Bettany Hughes. If the EB timeframe was a thousand years earlier then this book would be your one-stop-shop for info on the late bronze age. Engrossing.

[Power2the1]

Just wanted to add a few more

Celt and Greek by Peter B. Ellis
Celt and Roman by Peter B. Ellis
The Celts A History by Daithi O' Hogain
Celtic Warriors:The armies of one of the first great peoples in Europe by Daithi O' Hogain (A touch lighter reading)

I enjoy all four of these books, very informative IMHO ~:)

[Hooahguy]

Amazon is charging $1,200.00 for this book! Can you believe that!

Its a scandal!

H.

wrong- its $849.95

[Sarkiss]

just finished reading "Hannibal's last battle: Zama and fall of Carthage" by B. T. Carey.
good narrative on Punic wars, but the beauty of this book is in detailed graphic reconstructions of all major engagements, both at sea and on land.

[socal_infidel]

I've taken an extreme interest in the Parthians as of late. Managed to get my hands on The Parthians, by Colledge and Shadows in the Desert: Ancient Persia At War.

Has anyone read The Cambridge History of Iran, Volume 3: The Seleucid, Parthian and Sasanid Periods? New York Public Library has it, so I might hit it up this weekend. Beat having to pay $255 US for it...

Any other books I should check out?

Cheers!
s_i

[Strategos Alexandros]

I just found this at wikipedia: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Ancient_and_Classical_texts

No idea how good they are.

[Mythra]

Edward Gibbon's masterpiece : The decline and fall of the roman empire :applause: 2nd century BC to the fall of Constantinope in the east in the fifteenth c. The hole thing... quite old but still ( 1st publish between 1776-1788).

[Strategos Alexandros]

Polybius' histories for free: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?lookup=Plb.+toc

[Disciple of Tacitus]

Polybius' histories for free: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?lookup=Plb.+toc

Link didn't work for me. Who doesn't like free stuff?!?

[Strategos Alexandros]

Strange. It worked when I posted it but it doesn't seem to now.
EDIT: and a minute later it does work.

[Sarkiss]

here is what i read in the last few months.

The enemies of Rome by P. Matyszak
greatest leaders that fought Rome, from Hannibal to Attila. addressed to general public somewhat lacks depth. it is obviously impossible to tell every character's story thoroughly in a single volume. fine read nevertheless.

The ancient world at war edited by P. de Souza.
tries to cover the entire globe, from the wars before history till early middle ages. written by many different authors with each covering particular country and time frame.
greatly done, real eye candy.

Besieged by D. B. Campbell
development of siege warfare from 6th century Persia to the 4th century Roman world.
also greatly illustrated.

Hellenistic infantry reform in the 160's BC by Nicholas Sekunda
the latest work of N. Secknda where he somewhat changes his earlier ideas (expressed in his previous works) on what happened in the infantry reforms of the 160's.

[TWFanatic]

The Field and the Forge: Population, Production, and Power in the Pre-Industrial West, John Landers. Thought-provoking book incorporating demographics, economics, macro-politics, but especially military technology and logistics within the context of the “Organic Economy” over a wide chronology of western history, from Antiquity through the French Revolution.

[Dutchhoplite]

Hellenistic infantry reform in the 160's BC[/U] by Nicholas Sekunda
the latest work of N. Secknda where he somewhat changes his earlier ideas (expressed in his previous works) on what happened in the infantry reforms of the 160's.

I've downloaded his Montvert books on the Seleucid and the Ptolemaic armies some time ago. Are there much differences??

By the way...

I'm looking for good books on the successors, any tips??

[Strategos Alexandros]

Bar-Kochva's The Seleucid Army is reputed to be good.

[oudysseos]

I haven't been around for a while, but I'm glad to see that there's still some activity on the bibliography. Thanks people, I'll post your suggestions.

I have found the ultimate beginners guide to the EB time period. The Hellenistic Age, a short history, Peter Green. Covers the years 336 BCE to 30 BCE in only 130 pages, and yet is full of detail and commentary. If you read nothing else read this one!

Also found an old gem. Hannibal, Harold Lamb. From 1958, a straightforward narrative biography. Not bad.

First post updated.

[Zeibek]

This doesn't really relate to EB's subject matter, but Comparative Mythology by Jaan Puhvel is quite interesting. The name pretty much tells what it's about. Basically a study of Indo-European mythology.

[jabarto]

I haven't been around for a while, but I'm glad to see that there's still some activity on the bibliography.

As am I. I recently decided to fulfil my end of the EB user agreement and bought "Carthage: A History" and am liking it quite a bit. The two books you just mentioned sound intriguing as well, and I plan on getting "The Prehistory of Germanic Europe" later on. I give my thanks to all who contributed to this excellent thread. :book:

[Gazius]

Any particular reason this thread was destickied? I realize there's a desire to clean up clutter, but this is a really useful thread.

[Foot]

Thats why it is now linked in the "Important Information For Forum Users" Sticky.

Foot

[Gazius]

Totally managed to skim over that, oops. :embarassed:

[oudysseos]

So I have books like junkies have smack. Anyways, I picked up Xenophon's Retreat, Greece, Persia and the End of the Golden Age by Robin Waterfield. Provides the background to the Anabasis that non-Classicists might lack. Although 125 years before the EB timeframe it's still very pertinent- the discussion of logistics and the military lifestyle of hoplites is a good read.

First post updated.

[Rodrico Stak]

I'd just like to point out that the book The House of Seleucus (the first source on the list about the AS) is available free online from Google Books. Link: http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=hhkKLKXnZA4C&dq=house+of+seleucus&printsec=frontcover&=web&ots=3z6i7FV4te&sig=EPAQwPc_stRCHYCaaAkJHpzdy3c&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result#PPR3,M1

[oudysseos]

Um, Rodrico, that seems to just be a link to a citation for the book along with the opportunity to buy it. I don't see any hyper-text anywhere. Am I missing something?

Edit: I just noticed that the views count is over 20,000. Most excellent.

[oudysseos]

I couldn't find an online version of Bevan's House of Seleucus, but faffing around on the internet while my wife was cleaning the kitchen turned up two great things:

A History of Armenia, Vahan M. Kurkjian
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Gazetteer/Places/Asia/Armenia/_Texts/KURARM/home.html

I haven't done more than skim the table of contents, but it looks great, and finally something really substantive for the Haydasan faction.


History of the Later Roman Empire, John Bagnall Bury
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/secondary/BURLAT/home.html

More into the IBFD time-frame but still looks cool.

First post updated. 20,000 bibliography fans can't be wrong.

[Rodrico Stak]

Um, Rodrico, that seems to just be a link to a citation for the book along with the opportunity to buy it. I don't see any hyper-text anywhere. Am I missing something?

Edit: I just noticed that the views count is over 20,000. Most excellent.
Really? The link works for me. It takes a minute, and then a page like this one comes up:

https://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z157/RodricoStak/houseofseleucus.jpg

There's also a link to download it as a pdf on the right.

[oudysseos]

Nope, this is all I get:
http://books.google.com/books?id=gj6QAAAAIAAJ&q=house+of+seleucus&dq=house+of+seleucus&pgis=1
Which explains to me why I can't read the whole book online.

But I'm thinking that there may be different copyright issues in my country. I also can't access a lot of iTunes content, for example. Anyway I'll stick the link up on the first post and hope that some people can use it. Thanks Rodcrico.

[keravnos]

A great book about specifically the IndoGreeks is
The Greeks in India : A Survey in Philosophical Understanding/Demetrios Th. Vassilides. New Delhi, 2000, xvi, 261 p., plates, map. ISBN 81-215-0921-1.

https://www.vedamsbooks.com/no15423.htm

some excrepts from there...

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=96539&highlight=Indogreek+references

This book is priceless as the Greek author, a PhD in Hindu literature and a top awarded Sanskrit scholar, he has gone into all the relevant sources to find all mentions of "Yavanas", and exclude the IndoGreeks from all other invaders of India collectively called Yavanas after the IndoGreeks. (for more on that, click on the second link I include). He presently resides (and teaches I think) in Varanasi, India.

Having the Indian references from Vassiliades (about 200 references per chapter of his book), the books from Tarn and Holt and the online refernces and pics, a lot can be found out about IndoGreeks. More than is presently thought.

There is of course the Native Indian opinion on the IndoGreeks.
The Indo-Greeks : Revisited and Supplemented/A.K. Narain. Reprint. Delhi, B.R. Pub., 2003, x, 585 p., maps, plates. ISBN 81-7646-349-3.
https://www.vedamsbooks.com/no32919.htm

and a regular Indo Greek post...

Their legacy,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_of_the_Indo-Greeks

[HFox]

Currently reading "Fall of Carthage" by Goldsworthy

Like the way it is written, the flow and style of writting and the fact it falls neatly over the EB time frame.

Recommended not as a historian, or man of letters, only as a closet enthusiast for all of this. :)

[Zeibek]

There is of course the Native Indian opinion on the IndoGreeks.
The Indo-Greeks : Revisited and Supplemented/A.K. Narain. Reprint. Delhi, B.R. Pub., 2003, x, 585 p., maps, plates. ISBN 81-7646-349-3.
https://www.vedamsbooks.com/no32919.htm

Isn't Narain the scholar who believes that the entire Indo-European language family dispersed from Gansu westwards based on the fact that classical Chinese sources locate the Yuezhi there?

Well, I trust that he has more expertise when it comes to Indo-Greek studies than general Indo-Euoropean ones.

I'm not sure if this belongs in the EB bibliography, but since the Yuezhi used to be a faction and still make an appearance I'm gonna recommend The Tarim Mummies by JP Mallory and Victor H. Mair.

It's written so that even a fairly well informed layperson can read it without compromising content. The main focus is on the two most prominent candidates for the identity of the mummies, the Tocharians and the Indo-Iranians, but discusses several other issues, such as the origin of Indo-Europeans and the exact amount of western influences on the rise of Chinese civilization.

Highly recommended for anybody who wants to know more about the obscure people known to us as Tocharians/Yuezhi/Kushans/Kucha-Agneans.

[oudysseos]

First Post updated with submissions from Keravnos, Zeibek and HFox.

Also, I picked up Daily Life in Greece at the Time of Pericles, Robert Flaceliere.
Technically a little early for the EB timeframe but still a worthwhile read for the sake of imagining yourself there, and besides, a lot of the day to day facts of life didn't change for hundreds of years.

Oh, and I found a link to the Cambridge Ancient History, vol. 6, The Fourth Century B.C. It's a Google Preview so they left out some pages but still a lot of good background reading, online, for free.

http://books.google.ie/books?id=vx251bK988gC&pg=PA783&lpg=PA783&dq=league+of+corinth&source=web&ots=f6BPecCZGk&sig=bWydKooLCzL2jilwLUi3VRfTMDo&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=9&ct=result#PPP1,M1

I suppose it's obvious that if there's one volume of the Cambridge History on Google Books then there probably are more. Here's a link to volume 7, The Hellenistic World, aka Europa Barbarorum.

http://books.google.com/books/cambridge?ie=UTF-8&vid=ISBN052123445X&refid=ca-print-cambridge&q=pontus&submit=Go#PPP1,M1

[oudysseos]

I've gotten interested in the Lusotannan because of the whole Ambakaro Epones face mask thingy, and though I haven't found any actual books here in Dublin, I have found some previewed on Google Books. I'm not wild about online books, but since I don't have anything at all on this faction, I'll post these citations along with links. Remember, Google Books only has partial previews, so you can't actually read the whole thing.

Roman Spain: Conquest and Assimilation, Leonard A. Curchin
http://books.google.com/books?id=0sg9AAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover#PPP1,M1

Rome's Enemies (4): Spanish Armies, R. Martinez, R. Trevino, A. McBride (Osprey, but what the hell)
http://books.google.com/books?id=jz5VJpHXZDAC&printsec=frontcover#PPP1,M1

Hispaniae: Spain and the Development of Roman Imperialism, 218-82 BC, J. S. Richardson
http://books.google.com/books?id=rCXVeXrRrHAC&printsec=frontcover#PPP1,M1

The Decline of the Roman Republic, George Long: older book from 1864, but contains a good chapter on Viriathus. Since it's old the preview is complete, no missing pages. You can even download it as a PDF.
http://books.google.com/books?id=9nloAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA29&dq=lusitani&lr=

First post updated. Now if only there was something on Pontus.

P.S. If you go to this site ( http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=cambridge%20ancient%20history%20AND%20mediatype%3Atexts ), you can download PDF files of many books, in this particular instance complete volumes of the Cambridge Ancient History, something no EB fan should be without, Be warned! PDF files are large and laggy: go for the black and white PDF if you have the option.

[Goth47]

heres a list of good reads that i have in my collection

The Punic Wars by Adrian Goldsworthy

Scipio Africanus by B.H.Liddle Hart

Warriors of the Steppe by Hildinger

Hannibal by Ernle Bradford

[oudysseos]

First post updated to include suggestions by Goth47 that weren't already there.

Also, I scored a major coup and bought a complete set of the Cambridge Ancient History (used). Volume 9 includes a section on Pontus!! By M. Rostovtzeff and H Ormerod. So I did some scanning. This is a large chunk of the article, scanned to PDF and then copied to text. I left out anything significantly later than the 3rd century BCE. Even so it's a couple of pages long, thus the spoiler tags.

Pontus was subdivided into districts or provinces called eparchies as in Parthia, probably with strategoi as governors^. As in Cappadocia, fortified strongholds both of the kings and of the nobles were scattered all over the country. Strabo mentions the Kainon Chorion^ Ikizari (or Kizari), Sagylion, Kamisa, Pimolisa and Kimiata. The owners of these castles, then feudal barons, were most of them of Iranian origin ; one of them known from a Greek inscription is called Pharnabazus, while his vassal bears a Greek or hellenized name—Meriones^. No cities existed in Pontus except the Greek cities of the coast. Those which are mentioned in our sources as Greek cities, not as native quasicities, were created by the Mithridatid dynasty and will be dealt with later. The typical form of settlement was the village. Therich plain near Amasia had the name of Chiliokomon (thousand villages) and we are told that Murena overran in one raid four hundred villages (p. 353). Temples of exactly the same character as those of Cappadocia play a great part in the life of the country. It is interesting to note that though these were dedicated to gods of various origin (the Cappadocian Ma, the Anatolian Men Pharnaku, the Iranian Anaitis with her two acolytes, and the hellenized Zeus Stratios), they all were organized in the Oriental fashion with a chief priest, with a large number of sacred slaves or serfs of both sexes, some of the women slaves being temple-prostitutes, and with vast stretches of land from which the income went into the treasury of the temple or the chief priest. Near the large komopolis of Ameria was situated the temple of Men, a god important enough to play the leading role alongside the Tyche of the king in his royal oath. The temple at the large village of Comana in Pontus was the counterpart of that in Cappadocia. Comana itself was the chief emporium for commerce with Armenia, and the temple, with its 6000 sacred serfs, and the town were noted for their luxury and dissipated life, a paradise for soldiers and for merchants. No less famous was the temple of Anaitis near Zela. The excavation of one or more of the Pontic or Cappadocian temples, which has hitherto not been attempted, would throw a much needed light on the organization and culture of these great centres of Anatolian life. Of the variety of races which lived together, the various cults which met in the Pontus are eloquent and our sources speak of twenty-two languages spoken in the region, a fact which indeed is not surprising in view of the many languages which were in use during the Hittite period. Such in short was the land which was organized into a solid state by the efforts of the dynasty of the Mithridatidae of which the greatest representative was Mithridates VI Eupator, who at last, in 89 B.C., ventured to challenge the power of Rome.
^
II. THE MITHRIDATID DYNASTY
It is beyond doubt that the dynasty of the Mithridatidae, which ruled in Pontus from at least 302 B.C. until the last offspring of it, Darius, son of Pharnaces II, was removed from the throne, belonged to the highest Persian nobility (their claim to be descendants of the Persian king has, of course, no foundation), to a family which was connected with Asia Minor for many generations. The identity of the earliest two representatives of the family, Mithridates and Ariobarzanes, is still a matter of controversy. It seems, however, more or less certain that the Mithridates whose end was reported by the historian Hieronymus^ was one of the lesser city-dynasts of Asia Minor of the late Persian and early Hellenistic period. His city was Cius on the Propontis. Whatever his early history may have been, in the closing years of the fourth century, when he was more than eighty years of age, he supported Antigonus and planned to betray him. Whether he was at that time with Antigonus or in his own city of Cius while his son, also named Mithridates, was with Antigonus, or whether both of them were in Antigonus^ camp we do not know. So much is certain, that the king became suspicious and decided to get rid of his former allies, both father and son. Warning was given of it to the younger Mithridates by his friend, the prince Demetrius, who was almost of the same age, and Mithridates fled, perhaps together with his father, who was soon killed either on his flight in Paphlagonia, or near his own city.
In the turmoil of the events after Ipsus Mithridates the younger, who established his residence in Paphlagonian Kimiata, one of the Pontic strongholds, gradually succeeded in building up for himself a kingdom which he successfully defended against Seleucus I. Whether, however, he or his father is to be regarded as the founder (Jktistes) of the kingdom and dynasty is a matter of controversy. Almost all modern scholars are inclined to give the credit to the younger Mithridates, but this opinion must be revised in the light of an inscription which, though several times published, has not been taken into account by recent historians of the Pontic kingdom^. The problem is closely connected with the question of the Pontic Era. It is known that Mithridates the Great used an era which started with the year 297 b.c, the first year of the Bithynian Era^. This era was still in use in the Bosporan kingdom in imperial times, and we have a synchronism which admits of no doubt as regards its starting-point. The same era was apparently used by Eupator's predecessor and father Mithridates Euergetes, as is shown by an inscription found at Ineboli (Abonuteichos) and dated by the king Euergetes and the year 161 of an unknown era^. If this era be the Bithynian and Pontic Era, the inscription belongs to the year 137/6 b.c. If we assume the Seleucid Era, the adoption of which by the Mithridatidae is perhaps less difficult to explain than the adoption of the Bithynian Era, then the date corresponds to 1 5 1 e.g., a; date which fits equally well, since Euergetes was no doubt ruling as early as 149. The era of Euergetes may then be either the Bithynian or the Seleucid. But, twenty years ago, the important inscription mentioned above was found in the ruins of Chersonesus in the Crimea (see further below, p. 221). It contains the oaths taken by the city of Chersonesus and a king Pharnaces of Pontus and is dated as in the year 1 57 of the era of Pharnaces, This era cannot be the same as that used by Eupator, for if it is the Bithynian, it gives the date 140 B.C., when Pharnaces I was long dead and buried, and Pharnaces II was not yet born; and if it is the Seleucid, it gives the date 155, which is also too late for Pharnaces I, since his brother and successor Mithridates Philopator Philadelphus was ruling in 156^. The era of Pharnaces must then have some other starting-point, which may be discovered. A treaty between Chersonesus and Pharnaces is most intelligible if it followed closely upon the war which raged from f. 1 83 to 179 B.C. between Pharnaces and a coalition of Anatolian states. In the peace which ended the war Chersonesus was included, and it seems logical to connect the treaty of the inscription with the peace-treaty, and to place it about the year 179. If that is so, then the era used by Pharnaces will begin in 336 B.C., which is precisely the year in which, according to Diodorus, the elder Mithridates began to rule in Cius. From this it follows that Pharnaces used an era which went back to the rule of the elder Mithridates and thus treated him as the founder of the dynasty^. Why Mithridates Euergetes changed to the Seleucid or the Bithynian Era and why Eupator used only the Bithynian we cannot tell. If then we place the ruler of Cius at the head of the dynasty as Mithridates I, it becomes possible to avoid the expedient of inserting a hypothetical Mithridates into the list of the kings in order to make Eupator what our sources declare him to have been, the sixth Mithridates and the eighth king of Pontus^. It also becomes possible to explain the number of royal graves at Amasia, the capital of the early kings. There are four of these and a fifth still unfinished. It was Pharnaces I who moved to Sinope and probably was buried there so that the unfinished fifth tomb may well be his ; and if so the other four just suffice for the elder and younger Mithridates, Ariobarzanes and Mithridates the father of Pharnaces*. We may then assign to the younger Mithridates the credit, not of founding the dynasty, but of building up the power of Pontus. His endeavours, as those of his immediate successors, were directed towards the same goal as those of his neighbours of Bithynia, Pergamum and Cappadocia. Amid the political chaos of the times they sought to extend their borders and, above all, to include within them as many Greek cities as possible. From time to time in the course of these endeavours the Pontic kings emerge for a moment into the light of history, and it is possible to detect some of the stages in the growth of the monarchy from its beginning to the accession of Mithridates VI . It is not known when they succeeded in adding to their kingdom the city of Amisus and its rich territory inhabited by people who in Roman times were reputed excellent agriculturists^. In about 255 B.C.2 Amisus was certainly dependent on Mithridates III, since the city supplied the king and his army with grain sent through Heraclea at the time of a Gallic invasion. Since, however, the Pontic kings never thought of making the city their capital, it seems that Amisus retained a good deal of its autonomy and probably was, at least in theory, an allied not a subject city. It is equally unknown when the Pontic kings, while leaving alone for the moment the territory of Sinope, first reached the coast to the west of that city. Since Amastris was given to Ariobarzanes^ the son and co-ruler of Mithridates II, by Eumenes its dynast as early as 279^, the cities to the east of Amastris were no doubt reduced to obedience still earlier (we know that Abonuteichos was Pontic in 137/6 or 151/0 e.g.). Thus from 279 onwards the river Parthenius marked the frontier of Pontus to the west. How far the first four Mithridatid kings extended their power to the east and south we do not know. Armenia Minor was probably a vassal state, and Pontus had control of the rich mining districts of the Chalybes, perhaps even before the conquest of Pharnaces I. It was under the first four kings that a close connection was established between their dynasty and the Seleucids, when Mithridates III married Laodice, sister of Seleucus II and daughter of AntiochusII,andgave his own daughter Laodice toAntiochus III.
Scanty as is the information which we possess on the first Mithridatidae we can recognize the general lines of their policy. Their chief aim was to consolidate and to increase their kingdom, and to this end they used all the available means, no more disturbed about their moral or immoral character than all their crowned and uncrowned contemporaries. One of these means was the use of the resources which Greek civilization offered them. This, along with the increased income which could be derived from the Greek cities, made them strive first and foremost to incorporate their Greek neighbours in their kingdom. What they needed from them was their help in organizing an efficient army and navy, in improving the organization of their revenues and in assisting them to acquire a good reputation in the eyes of the Greek world, for which they cared very much indeed. How far they intended to hellenize the non-Greek parts of their kingdom it is very difficult to say. No doubt they had not the slightest desire to force urban life upon Pontus as a whole. Only one city designated by a dynastic name and at all comparable with those which were created in scores by the Seleucids was created by the predecessors of Eupator. It was Laodicea, known to us only from coins and from the survival of the name (modern Ladik)^. The synoecism of Cerasus and Cotyora and the creation of Pharnaceia by Pharnaces I have nothing to do either with urbanization or with hellenization. So long as no one of these Greek cities has been excavated, we have no means of knowing how the Pontic kings treated the few cities which they incorporated in their realm. A priori it is probable that Amisus, Amastris and the other cities which were annexed before Pharnaces I enjoyed a larger amount of autonomy than Sinope, the capital of the later Mithridatidae, and the new creations Pharnaceia and Laodicea. On the other hand Pharnaceia as well as Amastris was allowed to mint copper earlier than the reign of Eupator^.
Thus from the Greek point of view, Pontus after two centuries of the rule of the Mithridatid dynasty remained a country of villages and temples not of cities. This does not mean, however, that more or less hellenized urban centres did not develop there. The capital of Pontus before Pharnaces I and the home of Strabo, Amasia, had no doubt a large Greek population. The same is probably true of so important a market and caravan city as Comana. By intermarriage and social intercourse the Greeks must have done much to hellenize the native aristocracy. The best instance of it are the kings themselves, who were proud of their close family connection with the Seleucids and who, all of them, spoke and wrote Greek and showed a great appreciation of Greek literature and art. The same is true of the nobles with native names who were sent out as ambassadors, for example, to Rome. And yet the kingdom never became really hellenized. Until the end of its independent existence it remained as it used to be before the founding of the dynasty. Proud as they were of their Greek training, the Mithridatid kings, especially Pharnaces I and his successors, were still more proud of their Iranian connections. They claimed to be descendants of the Persian kings, and they remained devoted to their native gods, especially to those who, like themselves, were of Iranian origin. If we look at the coins of the Mithridatid kings we notice one interesting phenomenon. The rare coins of the predecessors of Pharnaces I are almost exact reproductions of the coins of Alexander and of those of the early Seleucids, Greek through and through^. With Pharnaces, however, the reverse types of the coins become more individual and Iranian. Pharnaces I indulges in a certain mystic syncretism, which was in the air in this period. His god, the mysterious youthful god of hiscoins^, was a beautiful youth wearing a bashlyk^ holding the attributes of Hermes and those of Tyche and feeding a little stag with a branch of ivy or vine. This young god is no doubt related to Zeus : over his head there appears the thunderbolt. At the same time he belongs to the gods of the astral religion as shown by the crescent and star which from this time on become the main symbol or coat of arms of the dynasty. The god has been explained recently^ as the Graeco-Oriental Aion, the divine son of Zeus who symbolizes the Saeculum frugiferum^ the same mystic being, perhaps, as the similar figure on Roman coins and the divine child of the Fourth Eclogue of Virgil. However this may be, the god of Pharnaces is more Iranian than Greek (in this like the god of the kings of Commagene—Apollo-Helios-Hermes- Mithras), though it was a Greek artist who fashioned the cult statue figured on the coins. Zeus, his father, is no doubt Ahuramazda rather than Zeus, and his essence is nearer to the essence of Mithras and Hvareno (the kingly glory) than to that of Hermes and Tyche. We find the same Greek travesties of Iranian political and religious ideas on the coins of Pharnaces' successors: Perseus, the mythical ancestor of the Persians, appears on the coins of Philopator, and his horse Pegasus on those of Eupator^. No doubt we must regard the Dionysus of Eupator as an Anatolian not as a Greek god, a symbol, like the Ephesian stag, of his Anatolian empire. It is worthy of note that nothing in the coins reveals any influence of Iranian art; they were made by Greeks in the purest Greek style. The portraits of the kings before Eupator are wonderful in their brutal realism^. We see before us the astute and cruel rulers of Pontus in all their original ugliness. Eupator dropped this style and preferred to appear as a new Alexander the Great with his hair floating romantically around his head^. While the portraits of the coins are real productions of a great art, Greek in their very essence, most of the reverse types of the coins, equally Greek, are trivial and of no artistic importance. It seems that the Hellenistic period interrupted an evolution which started in North Asia Minor in the fifth and fourth centuries B.C. This period produced interesting monuments in a peculiar style which we call Graeco-Persian. To this style belong many objects found in the Bosporan kingdom^, the front of the rock-grave of Kalekapu in Paphlagonia^, the beautiful Persolonian silver vases, one said to have been found in Armenia (one part is now in the Louvre, the other in the Berlin Museum)^, another found in a fifth-century grave at Duvanli in Bulgaria*, and, finally, the interesting Graeco-Persian gems ^. On the other hand the Hellenistic period has not yielded anything similar to it, any object of art which would be an attempt at a synthesis of the Greek and Iranian artistic creative power. The attempt to create a new version of Graeco-Persian art came later, simultaneously in India, Parthia, Mesopotamia and even Commagene, at a time when Pontus had played its part in world history to a close ^. Thus the Iranian and the Greek elements in Pontus were never fused in Hellenistic times into one unit: they lived on quietly side by side. Each had its special part in the policy of the Pontic kings. The same phenomenon may be noticed in the life of the Parthian Empire in the Hellenistic period (p. 595). The leading political idea of Eupator, the creation of a Pontic Graeco-native empire including large parts of Asia Minor, was not first devised by Eupator. No doubt Pharnaces I had the same ideals, which he transmitted to his brother, his son and his grandson. This Pontic empire was not a national State like the Parthian empire : it was an unification of all the Pontic Greeks around one dynasty which was supported by the strength and cohesion of their Oriental subjects. It was an empire with a Greek sea-front and an Oriental hinterland.

[Dutchhoplite]

The Punic Wars by Adrian Goldsworthy

Just bought it in Dutch :)

Also bought this one:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51j15pdG9bL._SL500_AA240_.jpg


Glory. Death. Well-born Athenian cavalry officer, Kineas, fought shoulder to shoulder with Alexander in his epic battles against the Persian hordes. But on his return from the east to his native city, he finds not glory but shame - and exile. With nothing to his name but his military skills, Kineas agrees to lead a band of veterans to the city of Olbia, where the Tyrant is offering good money to train the city's elite cavalry. But soon Kineas and his men find they have stumbled into a deadly maze of intrigue and conspiracy as the Tyrant plots to use them as pawns in the increasingly complex power games between his own citizens, and the dread military might of Macedon. Caught between his duty to the Tyrant, his loyalty to his men and a forbidden love affair with a charismatic Scythian noblewoman, Kineas must call on all his Athenian guile, his flair on the battlefield, and even - he is convinced - the intervention of the gods, to survive.

"Just" historical fiction but it looks like a fun read :)

[oudysseos]

Just wanted to draw everyone's attention to the vast improvement in iTunes U. Many more Colleges and Universities have contributed material and you can now browse by subject matter. It's really worth a look.

Stanford;

Geography of World Cultures, Martin Lewis
Hannibal, Patrick Hunt
Alexander in Fact, Alexander in Fiction, Alexander's Predecessors John L'Heureux
Egypt's Hold on the Greek Imagination, Marsh McCall

Santa Clara University;
History 110 Roman Republic, Isabelle Pafford

Loyola Marymount University
King Leonidas and the 300 Spartans, 2nd Annual Classics Archaeology Symposium

Indianapolis Museum of Art;
Roman Art at the Louvre

Berkley
History4A: The Ancient Mediterranean World

These are only some of the EB-pertinent programmes, and of course there are many other categories to browse through.


I also added a link for the Digital Book Index http://www.digitalbookindex.org/_search/search010hstancienta.asp which has thousands of etexts and pdfs. Most are free, although newer books might be for sale. You gotta check this out.


Intercourse Between India and the Western World H.G. Rawlinson
Hellenistic History and Culture, Peter Green ed.

I was only able to look at both of these in the library (damn reference copies) but the Rawlinson book in particular looks fantastic. I found some preview links for them and stuck them on the main post.

Great Battles of the Ancient World, Garrett Fagan
This is a really excellent course of lectures by Professor Fagan, running the gamut from the wars of the Assyrians and Babylonians to the late Roman Empire. Available in video or as audio download, Fagan is a remarkably even-handed informant and manages to follow not only the historical threads but also some of the academic contretemps that surround them. These lectures and many others are available from The Teaching Company.
http://www.teach12.com/storex/courses.aspx?t=&sl=&s=911&fMode=s&sbj=History%20-%20Ancient%20and%20Medieval
Please don't pirate them.
First post updated (and cleaned up a little)

[oudysseos]

Got some goodies for Christmas including

The World of the Phoenicians, Sabatino Moscati

Philip II and the Sacred War, John Buckler

and I found a used (but pristine) box set of Theo Dodge's Caesar, Alexander and Hannibal. Score!

[Dutchhoplite]

The second book sounds very interesting!

[jabarto]

Got some goodies for Christmas including

The World of the Phoenicians, Sabatino Moscati

Philip II and the Sacred War, John Buckler

and I found a used (but pristine) box set of Theo Dodge's Caesar, Alexander and Hannibal. Score!

Awesome. I really liked Dodge's "Hannibal" and I'm waiting for "Alexander to arrive from Amazon. I'll dfinitely be sure to check out the first book you mentioned to sate my Phoeniciomania (is that a word?).

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

History of Persia, by Sir Percy Sykes. Old but good. Go for the first volume since it deals with the EB timeframe and beyond.

[jabarto]

I think this was asked earlier, but does anyone know of good books specific to Greek colonies like Massalia, Syracuse and Chersonesos? I've been reading "The Extraordinary Voyage of Pytheas the Greek" and found out that I really want to know more about such places.

[keravnos]

There are some books I know, but almost all of them are in Greek.

[oudysseos]

Basileos, I've added your suggestion. Also found The Romans in Spain, 217 BC – AD 117, C.H.V. Sutherland in my cousins used book store (we have a deal going). Despite its title there are substantial chapters about pre-Roman times and about the history of Carthage in Iberia.

Also A History of Parthia, George Rawlinson (http://www.gutenberg.org/files/16166/16166-h/16166-h.htm) Old but excellent.

First post updated.

[thecellarlife]

Ancient Rome: A Military and Political History, Christopher S. Mackay. 2004.

Set in chronological order spanning around 800 BC - 650 AD. Provides detailed maps of major time periods of Roman expansion, as well as 20 some pages of high quality photos of archaeological examples. Covers the early kingdom to the beginnings of the republic with good comparisons between archaeological evidence and written sources, and explains the Punic Wars very well. I'm only about 80 pages in, but found it very informative thus far.

[hipshott@gmail.com]

I would add Herodotus, Xenephon.

[oudysseos]

Cellarlife, I'll add that one in.

Um, hipsott, there is an extensive classics section down towards the bottom of the post. Herodotus and Xenophon are *cough* the first and second authors cited.

First post updated. Oh, and good luck, Obama. You're gonna need it.

[Sarkiss]

finally, a book on Pontos on Mithridates VI Eupator: "Mithridates the Great, Rome's indomitable enemy"!
:smash:

a long-overdue biography of one of the dominant figures of the first century BC
written by an athour of bestselling "Ancient Rome on five denarii a day" and "Enemies of Rome", Philip Matyszak.

havent read it yet, just got it yeaterday as a birthday present from my wife. but so looking forward to reading it!:grin2:

[V.T. Marvin]

I would also contribute a few books I have read recently:


Religions of the ancient world : a guide, by Sarah Iles Johnston (general editor), Harvard University Press, 2004 - a good overview of various religions and their interconnectness in antiquity, interesting insight into the spiritual and everyday world of that time.
Food in the ancient world, by John M. Wilkins and Shaun Hill, Blackwell, 2005 - informative, interesting perspective into sociology and everyday life of the ancient times.
War and peace in the ancient world, by Kurt A. Raaflaub (general editor), Blackwell, 2007 - excellent compilation of studies into the concepts, theory and practice of war and peace in various antic civilizations from assyrians to India (and even North American Indians), A MUST!
Ancient Persia : from 550 BC to 650 AD, by Josef Wiesehöfer (translated by Azizeh Azodi), I.B. Tauris, 2001 - excellent modern study covering Achaemenid, Arsacid and Sasanian Period (Seleucids are largely ommited, sadly) it is A MUST!
Rome and Persia in late antiquity : neighbours and rivals, by Beate Dignas and Engelbert Winter, Cambridge University Press, 2007 - very good overview of the development of mtual relations from Carrhae to the fall of Sasanian Empire, studying not only mutual wars, but also the development of the diplomatic protocol, trade and cultural interchange.
Rome and the Ptolemies of Egypt : the development of their political relations 273-80 B.C., by Anssi Lampela, Societas Scientiarum Fennica, Helsinki 1998


The secret of the Hittites : the discovery of an ancient empire, by C.W. Ceram (translated from the German by Richard and Clara Winston), A.A. Knopf, 1967 - outside EB timeframe, yet interesting read, especially on how the information from past is transfered to us and how our understanding develops through careful examination and re-interpretation of historical and archeological evidence.

[ray243]

A Companion to the Roman Army By Paul Erdkamp (from the Roman kingdom to the era of Justinian)


http://books.google.com/books?id=hR73TNL7YMAC&pg=PA1&dq=companion+to+the+roman+army#PPP1,M1 (http://books.google.com/books?id=hR73TNL7YMAC&pg=PA1&dq=companion+to+the+roman+army#PPP1,M1)

Google book link.

Just a side note, it is rather expensive, but it is worth the price.

[V.T. Marvin]

It is a shame that this thread fell off down to sixth(!) page - should be stickied probably:idea2:

To bring it up, let me point out to another excellent on-line source of knowledge: The Ancient History Sourcebook (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/asbook.html):book:

[oudysseos]

VT, I'm sorry that I have been so tardy in adding in your previous suggestions. Done now. The thread is indeed stickied, under Important Information for Forum Users.

Cheers.

First post updated.

[Sarkiss]

oudysseos, you could add the above mentioned "Mithridates the Great, Rome's indomitable enemy" by Philip Matyszak.
im almost done with it, a fine read. thought i wish he'd go more into details at times and wouldnt rely on Appian so heavily when it comers to army numbers and there are alternative sources available to double cross check. ~;)
all in all a good book though.

in bibliography i also found one of the earliest and rear books on Mithridates' ally and son in law, Tigranes the Great of Armenia. written by K. Armen, Hrand (1940). "Tigranes the Great: A Biography."
tried to purchase it online but to no vain, its out of print and unavailable. :disappointed:
if anyone got any info on this book let me know please.

[oudysseos]

Sarkiss, sorry, I should have gotten that one too. Done now.

[chairman]

I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet, but

History of the Persian Empire (1959) by A.T. Olmstead is in my opinion a definitive study of Achaemenid Persia, the nations that came before it, the geopolitics, economics, religion, policies, military strategies and mindset of the Persians, as well as an objective look at the causes for the decline and fall of the empire.

My dad had a copy from years ago, I think it was an earlier edition. I finally got around to reading it, and it changed my entire view of the Persians. It takes into account the importance of Babylon to Achaemenid internal policies and follows the birth of distinctive Persian government, cultural, architectural, military and religious fashions and policies. Calling it a must read is a grave and unjust understatement.

Chairman

[oudysseos]

Okedoke, CHairman, I'll add thát in.

Just wanted to point out to you all that there are some quality podcasts at the moment: The History of Rome Podcast is back after a hiatus and has reached the Crossing of the Rubicon! Really good, you must try this one out (on iTunes and there's a link at the bottom of the first post of this thread). Also, BBCs In Our Time's latest podcast is The Destruction of Carthage! So get wired, people!

[penguinking]

I just wanted to say that this thread has been enormously helpful to me in finding good history books. Thank you.

[Marcus Ulpius]

Recently I've found this one: Cambridge History of Greek and Roman Warfare Philip Sabin, Hans van Wees,Michael Whitby.

Didn't read it yet, but certainly planning to do it when I'll have time. Sounds quite interesting.

[keravnos]

I was very lucky to find "Philopoemen" by R.M. Errington (Oxford University Press). The edition I found is over 40 years old, yet it is a treasure trove of information for the Achaian League (Achaike sympoliteia).

2 more books I have to recommend, even if I probably won't find them to read are...

Greek Federal States by J.A.O Larsen and

Foreign Clientelae (264-70 B.C.) by E. Badianby, both by Oxford University Press.

[Kikaz]

The Romans 850 B.C.-337 A.D., Donald R. Dudley (1970): A pretty well organized intuitive read.

[Iskander 3.1]

Lost Battles, Philip Sabin, 2008. He comes up with a universal mathematical model that can be used both for wargaming as well as for playing out actual historical battles, assuming sufficient information is known (i.e. Ipsus isn't covered here). For example, the sources differ greatly on the size of the Persians at Gaugemela. This model can let one re-fight with differing Persian sizes and see what the different results would be.

[The Fuzz]

Nomadic Empires: From Mongolia to the Danube by Gerard Chaliand

It's brief and expansive (as the title suggests), but it's a readable introduction to the mass confusion that is the migrations and invasions in Central Asia. It deals with the Yuehzi on a few separate occasions.

[oudysseos]

Wow guys! I haven't checked this thread for a while: sorry. I'll add all those excellent suggestions to the main post soon.

[desert]

Hey Oudysseos, would it be ok to post books that I haven't read?

[anubis88]

just a quick question... Why isn't this thread stickied anymore? I almost forgot about it, and now i always have to do a forum search to find it:book:

[johnhughthom]

It's part of the Important Information for Forum Users sticky.

[anubis88]

finally, a book on Pontos on Mithridates VI Eupator: "Mithridates the Great, Rome's indomitable enemy"!
:smash:

a long-overdue biography of one of the dominant figures of the first century BC
written by an athour of bestselling "Ancient Rome on five denarii a day" and "Enemies of Rome", Philip Matyszak.

havent read it yet, just got it yeaterday as a birthday present from my wife. but so looking forward to reading it!:grin2:

So did you read the book by now? Or anyone alse for that matter? I'm really interested of buying it, but i saw some mixed reviews online so i don't know....

Oh, and thanks john. Didn't notice it:yes:

[Sarkiss]

buy it. whilst i wish he would go into more details on some occasions it does provide a good info and sums everything you need to know about Mithridates Eupator quite nicely.

not sure this was mentioned before, there is a magazine called Ancient Warfare.
it featured a few interesting articles (in the issue i received) on Successor wars, "Alexander's funeral games". it really grows on me! a very fascinating time frame. im now looking forward to expanding my knowledge of Diodohi and their struggle for absolute supremacy (and to playing an upcoming Gaza campaign, of course!!!) shame there is not much literature dedicated to it and the books that there are cost a fortune.:worried2:

[Silence Hunter]

I remember that there was an actually good online book about the Diadochi. I didn't want to read it on the screen so I printed it and it was over 400 pages long. A shame I had not enough luggage space to carry that huge block of papers and left it at home... I will try to do a net search and find it again.

[heldelance]

God, this game has been the single biggest drain of my time! All the time that could've been spent doing something constructive spent on this game!!!! Daaaamn you!!!

But seriously, awesome mod, made RTW worth the money I spent and hell, it got me back into ancient history. I've been trying to look up stuff on the Thracians and the Sweboz without much luck so thanks a lot for posting the links.

[Dutchhoplite]

I remember that there was an actually good online book about the Diadochi. I didn't want to read it on the screen so I printed it and it was over 400 pages long. A shame I had not enough luggage space to carry that huge block of papers and left it at home... I will try to do a net search and find it again.

I would be very interested in that one :yes:

[I Am Herenow]

just a quick question... Why isn't this thread stickied anymore? I almost forgot about it, and now i always have to do a forum search to find it:book:

You can make it a personal sticky, if you like (under Thread Tools).

I Am Herenow

[Scud]

I'm sure I enjoy military history as much as the next person in this community, but (shock horror), it isn't my main area of interest. :sweatdrop:

I'm very much interested in political history and also political philosophy, and I've noticed my collection of books/.pdfs are rooted very much from the Renaissance onwards (Machiavelli, Rousseau, J.S Mill, Marx etc.). I'd be interested if anyone has material based on the subject rooted more in Antiquity - for though I've learnt a lot about the social and military history of the time thanks to this mod and the community, I haven't seemed to have picked much up on the politics side of things.

Anyone have any good books to recommend, be they contemporary works or classical pieces? :book:

[I Am Herenow]

Something like this (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=GIEbW5w8klsC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_summary_r&cad=0)?

I Am Herenow

[Scud]

Something like this (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=GIEbW5w8klsC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_summary_r&cad=0)?

I Am Herenow

Yeah, that was the sort of thing I was looking for. It seems very imformative and of decent depth, thanks. :2thumbsup:

While on classical pieces, I did try reading Plato's Republic (in english) a while back but the Socratic dialogue style of prose just didn't really appeal to me and made reading it a chore. Well that was my personal opinion of it and I think it might be worth a revist if I can slog it through.

[Luduan]

To provide some variety (since most of the titles listed so far tend to be military/political history):

The Greek Achievement: The Foundation of the Western World, Charles Freeman. A breezy, cursory overview of Greek history that I picked up recently.

Lost Christianities: The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew, Bart D. Ehrman. Provides a brief layman's overview to the religious battles amongst Christian communities (Gnostic, Ebionite, proto-Orthodox, etc.) in the late Roman empire. His other works come highly recommended as well.

To Think Like God: Pythagoras and Parmenides, The Origins of Philosophy, Arnold Hermann. An account of pre-Socratic Greek philosophical history.

Homosexuality and Civilization, Louis Crompton. Has a scope far wider than ancient history, from Asia to England to Islamic Spain, but does an solid job of covering the Greek and Roman ethos. His views on sexual history seem more along the lines of Boswell than Foucault, whose work I admire greatly, but still very insightful.

Mohammed and Charlemagne, Henri Pirenne. A classic history on the fall (or rather, continuance) of the Roman Empire that runs contrary to Gibbon, mentioned earlier. No contemporary scholar would accept his thesis, of course, but it remains a seminal work.

[Luduan]

I apologize for double posting, but I was unable to include URLs as that was my first post.

A lecture series on ancient Greece available from Yale University: https://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=023BCE5134243987. The course page with MP3 and MOV downloads is available at http://oyc.yale.edu/classics/introduction-to-ancient-greek-history/. I have only just begun watching it, but thus far the professor seems well-informed about the period. Aside from his annoying habit of clearly his throat after nearly every sentence and a Nietzsche caricature that he presents in several lectures, I recommend it.

The controversial New Testament scholar Robert M. Price also has a large recommended reading list with numerous titles on Roman and Near Eastern history, along with other less topical, but still excellent, books: http://webulite.com/node/1818.

[Sarkiss]

Mithridates VI and the Pontic Kingdom Edited by Jakob Munk Højte, Aarhus University Press 2009

available in PDF
http://www.pontos.dk/publications/books/BSS%209

[penguinking]

A lecture series on ancient Greece available from Yale University: https://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=023BCE5134243987. The course page with MP3 and MOV downloads is available at http://oyc.yale.edu/classics/introduction-to-ancient-greek-history/. I have only just begun watching it, but thus far the professor seems well-informed about the period. Aside from his annoying habit of clearly his throat after nearly every sentence and a Nietzsche caricature that he presents in several lectures, I recommend it.


That professor, Donald Kagan, is one of the leading experts on the Peloponnesian War. His book, The Peloponnesian War, also available in four volumes, is a very detailed and well written account of the conflict. Highly recommended. The lectures are also very good, I've seen them.

[option]

Giving this a bump because it's a great resource, and I've read several books listed here and plan to read many more. Also, I'm looking for a good biography of Augustus, and figured this would be a fine place to ask about it. I'm currently looking at the one by Anthony Everitt, but I would love some suggestions.

EDIT: Also, if someone could show me a link to a pdf (or other online version) of From Sardis to Samarkhand, I would be very grateful.

[Sarkiss]

"Tigranes the Great" by Herant K. Armen

the first biography of Tigranes II the Great to be ever published in English. ("Tigranes II and Rome" by Professor H. Manandyan has been published the same year, in 1940, in Armenian in Yerevan and was only recently translated into English)

this work, unlike all others i come across so far, is addressed to general public (the above mentioned work of Professor Manandyan being more of an academic study). its author for the first time tells the story from Armenian point of view. by scrutinizing and cross checking primary sources he draws a more balanced and accurate picture than those drawn by biased Roman authors who are often inconsistent and even contradict themselves (Plutarch is a great example).

i highly recommend this book to all interested in the history of Antiquity.

[vartan]

Plutarch was a major disappointment for me when studying Armenian history. What a joke he must've been. Sheesh.

Thanks for the book Sarkiss jan.

[Alien of Germania]

Cmon mods this thread worth a Sticky please. :book:

[Rubicon]

I do not know if this has been posted here already, but if it hasn't I think it belongs here.

Yale University puts some of its courses online, free to download for everyone. Among it is an entire 24 class course called Introduction to Ancient Greek History.

This is the describtion:


This is an introductory course in Greek history tracing the development of Greek civilization as manifested in political, intellectual, and creative achievements from the Bronze Age to the end of the classical period. Students read original sources in translation as well as the works of modern scholars

And these are the classes:

1. Introduction
2. The Dark Ages
3. The Dark Ages (cont.)
4. The Rise of the Polis
5. The Rise of the Polis (cont.)
6. The Greek "Renaissance" - Colonization and Tyranny
7. The Greek "Renaissance" - Colonization and Tyranny (cont.)
8. Sparta
9. Sparta (cont.)
10. The Rise of Athens
11. The Rise of Athens (cont.)
12. The Persian Wars
13. The Athenian Empire
14. The Athenian Empire (cont.)
15. Athenian Democracy
16. Athenian Democracy (cont.)
17. The Peloponnesian War, Part I
18. The Peloponnesian War, Part I (cont.)
19. The Peloponnesian War, Part II
20. The Peloponnesian War, Part II (cont.)
21. The Struggle for Hegemony in Fourth-Century Greece
22. The Struggle for Hegemony in Fourth-Century Greece (cont.)
23. Twilight of the Polis
24. Twilight of the Polis (cont.) and Conclusion

I have put the entire course on my Ipod to listen to during long train rides and I am really enjoying it. I thought maybe some of you would feel the same.

Here is the link:

http://oyc.yale.edu/classics/introduction-to-ancient-greek-history/content/downloads.html

[Sarkiss]

I have put the entire course on my Ipod to listen to during long train rides and I am really enjoying it. I thought maybe some of you would feel the same.


i was doing that for quite some time now but with different course as well as getting bits and pieces from here and there. thanks for the info, downloading now :beam:

[Andronikos]

I wanted to post that course. I found it on this page (http://www.academicearth.org/). There are more courses from various universities. Unfortunately, that one is the only one about ancient history, but if you are interested in modern history, engineering or natural sciences, you will find some good stuff there.

I am not sure if it was mentioned, but interesting books are:
Flavius Vegetius Renatius: Art of war (translation?)
Sextus Iulius Frontinus: War lies (translation?) - short lines about unusual tactics
Onasandros: Commander (translation?), how should a good commander act
All three could be a good source for EB quotes.

[Alien of Germania]

Montvert Publications - Seleucid and Ptolemaic Reformed Armies 168-145 BC.
Author: Nick Sekunda, Art by Angus McBride

2 volumes, one for the Seleucids and one for the Ptoleis.

And sticky this thread!!! :smash:

[Andronikos]

I don't know if available in wide spoken languages, but this man has awesome books. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vojtech_Zamarovsk%C3%BD
History written by Rome and The Greek wonder cover EB period or its part.

[Fluvius Camillus]

Is the following book:

"From Samarkhand to Sardis (best on Seleukids) Sherwin-White and Kuhrt"

Really 300+ euros????:dizzy2:

Am I searching incorrect? Is there a way around? Or if I really want to enlighten myself I just have to pay that amount?:gah:

~Fluvius

[abou]

Is the following book:

"From Samarkhand to Sardis (best on Seleukids) Sherwin-White and Kuhrt"

Really 300+ euros????:dizzy2:

Am I searching incorrect? Is there a way around? Or if I really want to enlighten myself I just have to pay that amount?:gah:

~FluviusTry your library.

The book itself had an incredibly short print run mainly because it was targeted toward a solely academic audience. The book has been out of print for a very long time. The information within is excellent (although there isn't much concerning the military), if you can find it.

[Fluvius Camillus]

Yep it's me again...

Also this book:

"The Fall of the Roman Empire Peter Heather"

was advised and I want to buy it, which should I choose???

Author: Peter Heather & P.J. Heather

Paperback

592 pages | Pan Macmillan | New edition | may 2006

OR

Author: Peter Heather

Paperback

572 pages | Oxford University Press | june 2007

Thanks for the help.

~Fluvius

[Fluvius Camillus]

Sorry to bother again...:sweatdrop:

"Xenophon's Retreat:Greece Persia & the End of the Golden Age, Robin Waterfield"

There is a more expensive 2006 title and also a cheaper 2007 version, exactly same title and writer. Which one?

They say the last one has 100 more pages, but that may not mean it is better.

~Fluvius

[Fluvius Camillus]

Is there nobody who knows an answer to my question? it has been around 3 days since a posted without the slightest reply. If someone knows which ones to buy please tell me.

Thanks in advance!

~Fluvius

[burn_again]

The Google Books link for Edwyn R. Bevan's The House of Seleucus isn't working for me, but I've found it (and some of his other books) available on archive.org:


Vol. 1:
http://www.archive.org/details/houseofseleucus01bevauoft

Vol.2:
http://www.archive.org/details/TheHouseOfSeleucusVolII

[Poppis]

Great, thanks!

I read Bevans house of ptolemy a few years ago and loved it, but then couldn't find the house of seleucus.

Too bad the second volume is only available on DjVu, though.

[burn_again]

DjVu sucks, but you can convert it to Pdf: http://www.djvu-to-pdf.com/


I just read the first volume and though a bit outdated it was very entertaining.

[king of thracia]

Both volumes 1 & 2 of Edwyn R. Bevan's House of Seleucus were on Google books when I read it last month. I did find it quite entertaining.

[anubis88]

Hi, i have a question...

Are there any books that focus on the Carthaginian expansion in spain? I've always been a Carthy fanatic, but i really lack anything more than a few page info about the subject... It would be really great to if someone would tell me where i could find a book about those expeditions:smash:

[Fluvius Camillus]

Hello again!

I am currently confused which one to buy/read.

The Armenians A.E. Redgate

A History of Armenia, Vahan M. Kurkjian

Someone who can give me some tips which one would be better to read? I know the bottom one is online but I cant read such a huge book online. So which one do you advise to read from page 1 to the end?~D

~Fluvius

[vartan]

Hello again!

I am currently confused which one to buy/read.

The Armenians A.E. Redgate

A History of Armenia, Vahan M. Kurkjian

Someone who can give me some tips which one would be better to read? I know the bottom one is online but I cant read such a huge book online. So which one do you advise to read from page 1 to the end?~D

~Fluvius

Read the second one, definitely. Read Michael Chahin's "Kingdom of Armenia" (I believe that is what it is called. Can't believe I've forgotten the name, I own the book and after reading it many times, it is simply collecting dust!). If you can, buy the blue version of Chahin's book, as it is the newer post-soviet version. The version I own is the red/pinkish version, the late soviet-era version. No biggie, just a bit more expensive to get the newer one ;)

I haven't read the first book, but hey, go for it. Whatever you do, don't take everything you read too literally. You might come across stuff that seems odd, etc. It's too much of a headache I say. As an Armenian (read 'ultra-nationalist'), I might not agree with everything the writers say, but I enjoy the text, like I enjoy sci-fi novels (and I ENJOY SCI FI NOVELS BELIEVE ME!!). So just read, and have fun!

Enjoy,
Vartan

[Fluvius Camillus]

Read the second one, definitely. Read Michael Chahin's "Kingdom of Armenia" (I believe that is what it is called. Can't believe I've forgotten the name, I own the book and after reading it many times, it is simply collecting dust!). If you can, buy the blue version of Chahin's book, as it is the newer post-soviet version. The version I own is the red/pinkish version, the late soviet-era version. No biggie, just a bit more expensive to get the newer one ;)

I haven't read the first book, but hey, go for it. Whatever you do, don't take everything you read too literally. You might come across stuff that seems odd, etc. It's too much of a headache I say. As an Armenian (read 'ultra-nationalist'), I might not agree with everything the writers say, but I enjoy the text, like I enjoy sci-fi novels (and I ENJOY SCI FI NOVELS BELIEVE ME!!). So just read, and have fun!

Enjoy,
Vartan

Thank you for the reply, its good to hear from someone.

I found the Kingdom of Armenia one (blue), it is around 50 euros. I did spend a lot on the EB bibliography, so I might wait a while till I buy that, still if you keep reading it, it will probably good although I am not a Armenian ultra-nationalist:clown:. When I will make a new order in the future it will probably contain the following ones:

- Babylon, Memphis, Persepolis - Walter Burkert Hardcover
- If I have to believe you~D the Armenian book from Vahan Kurkijan instead of the A.E. Redgates one.
- Maybe Sun Tzu, art of war. I came across it and it was only 10 euros for a 200 page oxford edition, so why not?:yes:

I am reading Soldiers & Ghosts from J.E. Lendon atm.

I have managed to get quite a collection in 1 and a half month. First I had nothing and now my bookshelf contains around 10 EB bibliography books~D

~Fluvius

[Fluvius Camillus]

Hello again!

I recently ordered the recommended Celtic historical atlas. It was very detailed and I found it really interesting.

Now my question is:

Are there more EB recommended Historical Atlasses? The other one of John Haywood, the historical atlas of ancient civilisations perhaps?

Thanks in advance.

~Fluvius

[Fluvius Camillus]

I hereby revive this Thread!

But really, I don't know which book to pick:

Alexander Of Macedon, 356-323 B.C. Peter Green
Engels - Paperback

OR

Conquest and Empire
Conquest and Empire A. B. Bosworth
Engels - Paperback

The last one is not included in the EB bibliography but both are recommended by Frank Holt from Thundering Zeus.

Thanks in advance!

~Fluvius

[tsidneku]

Does any EB group member have advice regarding Augustan and post-Principate Provincia Galatia?
I'm already using Mitchell 2003 (Anatolia) and Magie 1993. I can't really use anything but English. Ich spreche ein bisschen Deutsch.

[anubis88]

Hi...

I just found an interesting book about the Kingdom of Saba in my library, and I wonder if the EB team used it, or was it dissmised for some reason. The book is in German though, so I have no idea what it says.

The book name is : Das Reich der Königin von Saba, by Gabriel Mandel.