Gunners or Archers ?

[GunShire]

i really like gunners and archers, but i dont know how to get the best of them, and which one is better, will it make gunners any better if you lower their honour or is it the other way around ? one thing that really anoys me is when my archers run out of ammo, is it best to suicide them or am i missing something ? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/confused.gif

[Dark Phoenix]

Well they are used for different uses. I use archers to really damage certain u8nits if I can. An example of this was the other day I was against this guy and he put a monk within range and I whittled it down to under 10 and with the same archer unit i got a No Dachi unit down to 30. What Musks and Arbs are good for is getting units to rout units that charge them.

When I have archers out of ammo it depends if it is online or or in campaign. If it is online I use them in the second wave and try to flank with them. If it is in campaign I normally withdraw them if I have reserveds if not I use them only when I need to.

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DoragonPhoenix of the Clan Doragon

[Nelson]

GunShire, don't forget that teppo don't shoot in the rain! They also melee for crap. Those are the teppo problems.

On the other hand, in good weather they will fire destructively all day and they are much cheaper than samurai archers. Raise them in Owari or Tosa and they get the ashigaru honor bonus too.

In a campaign I phase out archers in favor of aquebusiers and musketeers as soon as possible. That's what the Japanese did. I always have a few archers around though where I think I may have to defend since the defender can't choose the weather.

Archers put out mucho pain faster than teppo but winchester quickly. Fortunately they can still fight. Early in the game this is critical because every unit counts and you need them all to melee. SA also run fast and are the best pursuit troops for some time. Because they are expensive and vulnerable archers should be used judiciously while at the same time never forgetting that every unit on the field is there to fight for a win not skulk in the rear.

[This message has been edited by Nelson (edited 03-07-2001).]

[ShaiHulud]

Archers of equal honor get considerably more kills than arqs or muskets.

That said, how many times have you had enemy troops take your archers in hth combat? Often! Guns have a value archers do not in that they can, single-handedly, halt an attack by routing the enemy, even tho they've taken few losses.

The greatest risk to guns is WM and ND with their high morale. They can take losses and morale checks that others will not withstand easily.

The greatest risk to the commander is rain that makes guns useless. Thus, in campaign I rarely have more than two guns in a single army. The AI is clever enough to use rain to advantage, too. So, a mix of archers/guns works to attack high morale units with archers and other units with guns.

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Wind fells blossoms, rain
fells steel,yet bamboo bends and drinks

[BanzaiZAP]

I like to keep a mix of both. Two units of guns to form a nasty center punch, and archers on the flanks to harass, and to use in melee if necessary. I'll usually have one or two more archers, mostly because of that versatility, but still keep some guns for the scare factor.

You always want to go for higher honor. Lowering a units honor means that they will have poorer aim, less morale, and be generally more lame in battle. Some people sell honor back in multiplayer games to squeeze out a few more koku, but I find tht it makes the troops too unreliable. What's the point of having two extra yari, when they'll run away the moment the fight turns ugly?

-- B)

[theforce]

Well it depends. If you are attacking you have an idea of what the weather would be. Sometimes yer plans can be screwed up though by the weather. There are guys who use high honor guns. These guns not only kill your units and are deadly accurate but because they have such high honor melee units flee much quicker. Archers though are good against no-dashi, wm and cav since horses are so big to hit http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
When out of arrows use them to flank or take out other shooting units firing yer men or hold your line!

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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://www.darksideshogunclan.cjb.net
Enter the Darkside...

Archers fire in rain but due to wind accuracy is diminished. Archere kill at at a highe rate than guns but with their high ammo guns make up for it. Have arches on heights and guns on plains but a good mix is the best. Ca sting and are fast but infantry archers are more accurate and reliable. Guns have the scare factor which will rout any low honour unit rushing at them. Archers kill half a unit of a wm/nd in seconds.

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Honour to Clan No Fear.

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[Bigboned]

personally i like going with both.... i normally go with cav archers the are fast and good for charging musks or sa if the nemy has nothing really near them... use em to flank musks and sa when they run outta arrows too

[Minagawa Daimon]

geishas....ohh your talkin abt archers and gunners, i dont know abt that http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif