View Full Version : Disgusting... Police officer killed by man he once saved
http://www.rutlandherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061020/NEWS/610200328/1004/NEWS03
Officer once gave first aid to his accused killer
October 20, 2006
The Associated Press
MANCHESTER, N.H. — Police officer Michael Briggs once helped save the man accused of killing him.
In March 2003, Briggs responded to a shooting at a Manchester apartment. The victim was Michael Addison, who was shot in the collarbone, police said. Briggs was the first officer on the scene; he started giving first aid to Addison.
"I guess you could say it's ironic that in Michael Addison's time of need, it was Michael Briggs who responded," Sgt. Nick Willard of the Manchester Police Department told WMUR-TV on Thursday. "I think him treating Michael Addison for a gunshot wound back in 2003 is a testament to what Michael has done since the day he became a police officer — indiscriminately helping others."
Addison, 26, of Manchester, is charged with capital murder in the shooting death of Briggs, 35, who died Tuesday. Addison was arrested in Boston on Monday and remains jailed there on $2 million bail while he fights his return to New Hampshire, where he could be sentenced to death if convicted.
Senior Assistant Attorney General Jeff Strelzin said it could take up to 60 days to extradite Addison.
"It just takes as long as it takes" Strelzin said Thursday, noting everything could change if Addison decides to waive extradition. Addison's next Boston court date is Nov. 10.
The attorney general's office on Wednesday upgraded charges against Addison from attempted murder to capital murder after autopsy results confirmed that Briggs, gunned down in an inner city alley early Monday, died of a single gunshot wound to the head.
Authorities say Briggs was shot 15 minutes before the end of his shift, when he and a fellow bicycle patrol officer responded to a domestic violence call involving a gunshot. Briggs' gun never left his holster, but prosecutors say two other officers shot back, as the gunman escaped.
New Hampshire's death penalty law applies only in limited circumstances, including killing a police officer.
Briggs, a married father of two sons, died at a Manchester hospital. A funeral is planned for Saturday at the stadium that's home to the New Hampshire Fisher Cats, the minor league baseball team Briggs often took his sons to watch.
"He tried to spend as much time as he could with us," Briggs' 8-year-old son, Mitchell, told WMUR-TV. "Even if he had a second left, he'd spend it with us."
Since the shooting, mourners have left bouquets of flowers and signed a guest book near the scene and at other makeshift memorials in a yard nearby and at the police station.
Strelzin said three other police officers were at the scene early Monday when Briggs was fatally wounded. The names of the others and details such as how many shots were fired and by whom have not yet been released.
A neighborhood resident, Jonathan Johnson, 26, said he saw police re-enacting the shooting several hours later. Johnson told the New Hampshire Union Leader he saw one officer grab another by the shoulder, who then spun around and mimicked shooting the officer.
Strelzin declined to confirm that account or whether Addison, a suspect in a rash of violent crimes during the preceding week, was involved in the domestic dispute that drew officers to the area.
Two women allegedly involved in the crime spree were arraigned Wednesday in Nashua District Court on charges stemming from the robbery of a Hudson convenience store last week.
According to court records in Manchester and Nashua, Angela Swist, 28, and Teresia Shipley, 26, rode along with Addison and Antoine Bell-Rogers during the robbery and split the money with the men. They also rode along when the men fired shots at a Manchester apartment building early Sunday morning, court documents said.
Bell-Rogers was with Addison when Briggs was shot, police say, but investigators have declined to say whether the dispute Briggs responded to involved one of the women.
Pity things like karma and Hell are non-existent because if found guilty Addison truly deserves a terrible end.
Is what you get for trying to help filth, some people just can't be helped, and just don't deserve the effort. Idealism makes baby Darwin cry.
Don Corleone
10-20-2006, 18:56
They found him. It's a huge issue... They found him a week later down in Massachussets, about 60 miles away. It's become a huge stink because there's a whole "Defend Michael Addison" down in Massachussets, like in Cambridge (where they held the Uday and Qasay candlelight vigils, no joke). The Massholes are claiming they shouldn't extradite him because NH still has the death penalty (though I think they haven't executed anybody since 1939). They're also claiming that race is a mitigating factor since Addison is black and Biggs was white (New Hampshire is about 97% white, which was freaky when I moved here from North Carolina). Addison's defenders claim he cannot find a fair trial because he's black and New Hampshire is full of racists. It's actually becoming quite a shooting match between state houses because the governor's race is going on in Massachussets. The Democratic candidate (Deval Patrick, who is black and in the past wrote two petitions for pardon and/or parole for a 'humane, well spoken' serial rapist) has come out and said he should be kept in Mass, the Republican (Kathleen Healey) who while she's sympathetic, doesn't want to make it look like Massachussets rolls over for anyone, especially not Maine or New Hampshire (generally viewed as rednecks by the rest of New England).
Do some research on the web, this is a HUGE deal in reigonal politics right now. The NH House (Republican controlled) did some grandstanding by passing a bill that provides extra funding to the Attorney General to seek the death penalty (though the AG already had an unlimited budget for the case). The Democratic governor of New Hampshire (John Lynch), wants to veto the extra cash and has been accused (without proof) of offering to take the death penalty off the table for immediate extradition.
We'll see......
Edit: Technically there's a governor's race going on in New Hampshire too, but it's not much of one. The fiscally conservative Democratic governer, the aforementioned John Lynch, would have to murder a puppy on television to blow his lead at this point. In the 'if it ain't broke...' vein of thinking, I'm even voting for him.
Wow, that's a truly sad story. Good deeds had better be their own reward, 'cause they sure as heck get punished on Earth.
Wow, that's a truly sad story. Good deeds had better be their own reward, 'cause they sure as heck get punished on Earth.
That's sig info there.
Anyways, I say he gets the death penalty.
:rtwno: :hanged:
Crazed Rabbit
10-20-2006, 19:17
A tragedy. I hope the mass...ahem...h**** give him back and get off their righteousness wagon. And you're saying people are protesting in support of him? What complete morons. And again with the race card, sheesh.
The Democratic candidate (Deval Patrick, who is black and in the past wrote two petitions for pardon and/or parole for a 'humane, well spoken' serial rapist) Scum. Did he offer to house the rapist?
One thing, though...
New Hampshire's death penalty law applies only in limited circumstances, including killing a police officer.
I guess normal people aren't as important.
Crazed Rabbit
Don Corleone
10-20-2006, 19:18
It's funny that you picked that particular smiley, Ice. The anti-extradite crowd keeps saying "Not only do they still have the death penalty, they hang people". Technically, the last person to be executed washung, but that was 67 years ago. Lethal injection has been on the books since 1995. I think SCOTUS is going to find capital punishment unconstitutional nationwide here pretty shortly though, probably this term.
This guy will probably end up being extradited, convicted and will do roughly 12 years of his 'life' sentence.
Don Corleone
10-20-2006, 19:19
A tragedy. I hope the mass...ahem...h**** give him back and get off their righteousness wagon. And you're saying people are protesting in support of him? What complete morons. And again with the race card, sheesh.
Scum. Did he offer to house the rapist?
One thing, though...
I guess normal people aren't as important.
Crazed Rabbit
It has to be capital murder:
-multiple
-police
-children
-after a kidnapping
Just murdering one person doesn't get you the big needle.
Scum. Did he offer to house the rapist?
The kind of hypocrasy that will never fails to anger me. Making a moral appeal one doesn't back up with individual action. Why not show how much he really cares. Don't know how it is over there, but here the ones with the biggest mouth tend to be the ones living in the biggest houses. For these kind of people its all one big luxory item.
Don Corleone
10-20-2006, 19:32
He claims that when he wrote the petition for clemency, the DNA evidence hadn't confirmed the rapist's identity (though there's a lot of evidence to indicate this isn't 100% true, at least not with respect to his 2nd letter)...
doc_bean
10-20-2006, 19:33
Why not show how much he really cares. Don't know how it is over there, but here the ones with the biggest mouth tend to be the ones living in the biggest houses.
...with a fence.
Goofball
10-20-2006, 20:02
They found him. It's a huge issue... They found him a week later down in Massachussets, about 60 miles away. It's become a huge stink because there's a whole "Defend Michael Addison" down in Massachussets, like in Cambridge (where they held the Uday and Qasay candlelight vigils, no joke). The Massholes are claiming they shouldn't extradite him because NH still has the death penalty (though I think they haven't executed anybody since 1939). They're also claiming that race is a mitigating factor since Addison is black and Biggs was white (New Hampshire is about 97% white, which was freaky when I moved here from North Carolina). Addison's defenders claim he cannot find a fair trial because he's black and New Hampshire is full of racists. It's actually becoming quite a shooting match between state houses because the governor's race is going on in Massachussets. The Democratic candidate (Deval Patrick, who is black and in the past wrote two petitions for pardon and/or parole for a 'humane, well spoken' serial rapist) has come out and said he should be kept in Mass, the Republican (Kathleen Healey) who while she's sympathetic, doesn't want to make it look like Massachussets rolls over for anyone, especially not Maine or New Hampshire (generally viewed as rednecks by the rest of New England).
Do some research on the web, this is a HUGE deal in reigonal politics right now. The NH House (Republican controlled) did some grandstanding by passing a bill that provides extra funding to the Attorney General to seek the death penalty (though the AG already had an unlimited budget for the case). The Democratic governor of New Hampshire (John Lynch), wants to veto the extra cash and has been accused (without proof) of offering to take the death penalty off the table for immediate extradition.
We'll see......
Edit: Technically there's a governor's race going on in New Hampshire too, but it's not much of one. The fiscally conservative Democratic governer, the aforementioned John Lynch, would have to murder a puppy on television to blow his lead at this point. In the 'if it ain't broke...' vein of thinking, I'm even voting for him.
I hate cases like these, because they put my stance on the death penalty to the test. They also hit close to home quite often, as Canada routinely refuses to extradite criminal suspects to jurisdictions where they will face the death penalty.
Having said that, I still come down in favor of Massachusets refusing extradition on those grounds (they can shove all the racism crap up their pieholes, as that is no more than a political smokescreen, I think).
The problem with these cases is that they offer those in favor of the death penalty the opportunity to paint those who oppose it as supporting the individual (in this case, as in most, an individual who can correctly be described as scum of the Earth) rather than the principle. And that's where the ugly rhetoric starts flying around and everybody walks away feeling terrible no matter what the outcome. But I guess there's really nothing to feel good about in this case to start with, other than, perhaps, if Heaven exists, then Michael Briggs is surely there right now...
yesdachi
10-20-2006, 20:11
Scum. Did he offer to house the rapist?
I use a similar question when I talk to someone in favor of releasing or going easy on rapists, child molesters, etc.
I hate cases like these, because they put my stance on the death penalty to the test.
Why is that, the cop was just doing what he was payed to do when he saved his murderer, giving him aid because he was wounded. He didn't react out of pity, but because it is his job. That it had to be this guy that killed the cop is sheer coincidence, probably didn't even rocognise him because he was wounded at the time his ass was saved, probably even in shock. If a little bit of coincidence is enough to shake your foundations, then perhaps it's a good idea to re-examine them.
Divinus Arma
10-20-2006, 20:13
Interogate him.
America style. :laugh4:
Why is that, the cop was just doing what he was payed to do when he saved his murderer, giving him aid because he was wounded. He didn't react out of pity, but because it is his job.
First, not all cops are created equal. This guys sounds like he was an exceptional officer. Second, some people choose professions that put their bodies in harm's way because they want to make a difference. That should register somewhere on your moral scale.
So it's fatuous to say, "Oh, he was just doing his job, give him no special attention." It betrays a lack of understanding about choices and consequences.
First, not all cops are created equal. This guys sounds like he was an exceptional officer. Second, some people choose professions that put their bodies in harm's way because they want to make a difference. That should register somewhere on your moral scale.
So it's fatuous to say, "Oh, he was just doing his job, give him no special attention." It betrays a lack of understanding about choices and consequences.
Oh I am all for the highest tree aproach, I was trying to make a point, those that are now upset and typically oppose death penalty should think about why this case is different, after all it is a case of extreme coincidence.
Goofball
10-20-2006, 21:13
Preach on, Lemur, preach on.
People who sign up to be cops are signing up to put their lives on the line for their communities. But it's not like a soldier going off to war--when a cop is killed, he's being killed by the very people he is supposed to protect. Killing a cop is the absolute highest insult you can do your community.
By killing people who kill cops, we are defending the honor of our communities in the most direct fashion possible.
Killing in defence of honour is a stunningly silly concept.
yesdachi
10-20-2006, 21:20
Killing in defence of honour is a stunningly silly concept.
If we don’t have our honor what do we have?
Goofball
10-20-2006, 21:26
If we don’t have our honor what do we have?
If we kill somebody over honour, then we forfeit our own honour.
Now, on a lighter note, say this ten times fast:
She offered her honour, he honoured her offer, then the rest of the night he was on 'er and off 'er...
If we don’t have our honor what do we have?
You have your life. Truely a sad story.:shame:
Don Corleone
10-20-2006, 21:32
Well, hard as it is, I have to agree with the idea that even this individual should be immune from capital punishment. Life on a chain gang, with a bowl a rice a day, yes, but again... we have to respect human life, even folks that are marginally human. :shrug: Much as I'd love to line the guy up against the wall and call "Fire" myself, shouldn't be done...
yesdachi
10-20-2006, 21:40
If we kill somebody over honour, then we forfeit our own honour.
Now, on a lighter note, say this ten times fast:
She offered her honour, he honoured her offer, then the rest of the night he was on 'er and off 'er...
Aaaaugh, your right. Better to stick with the old kill them because they’re different reason. ~D
I support the death penalty only to parentally separate a dangerous person who is beyond any realistic hope of rehabilitation from those he may do physical, emotional or fiscal harm to. Not to derail the thread but I thought I would get my stance out there before the thread turns into a capital punishment debate.
on 'er off 'er on 'er off 'er on 'er off 'er on 'er off 'er on 'er off 'er :laugh4:
Well, hard as it is, I have to agree with the idea that even this individual should be immune from capital punishment. Life on a chain gang, with a bowl a rice a day, yes, but again... we have to respect human life, even folks that are marginally human. :shrug: Much as I'd love to line the guy up against the wall and call "Fire" myself, shouldn't be done...
I disagree. I've always been a supporter of the eye for an eye concept.
Goofball
10-20-2006, 21:47
Well, hard as it is, I have to agree with the idea that even this individual should be immune from capital punishment. Life on a chain gang, with a bowl a rice a day, yes, but again... we have to respect human life, even folks that are marginally human. :shrug: Much as I'd love to line the guy up against the wall and call "Fire" myself, shouldn't be done...
It's funny that you and I are both against the death penalty, but for different reasons, and yours are probably the more noble of the two.
It sounds like you are against the death penalty because of a belief in the sanctity of human life, stemming (I assume) from your Christian faith.
I am against the death penalty because I have no faith in its proper application. I think our justice system gets it wrong too often to allow it to take the ultimate step of killing somebody.
But if it were a case where I was the personal eye witness to a violent crime and knew in my own mind beyond a shadow of a doubt that the accused was guilty, I'd have no problem giving him a double-tap to the center of mass myself.
Kralizec
10-20-2006, 21:50
Oh I am all for the highest tree aproach, I was trying to make a point, those that are now upset and typically oppose death penalty should think about why this case is different, after all it is a case of extreme coincidence.
I'll have to agree that this is just an ironic coincidence, a very bitter one.
Well, hard as it is, I have to agree with the idea that even this individual should be immune from capital punishment. Life on a chain gang, with a bowl a rice a day, yes, but again... we have to respect human life, even folks that are marginally human. Much as I'd love to line the guy up against the wall and call "Fire" myself, shouldn't be done...
Agreed.
Tribesman
10-20-2006, 22:09
Killing in defence of honour is a stunningly silly concept.
You could even say that it is an outdated cultural concept that only lingers on in patriarchal tribal societies .
But there is already another thread on that .
It's funny that you and I are both against the death penalty, but for different reasons, and yours are probably the more noble of the two.
It sounds like you are against the death penalty because of a belief in the sanctity of human life, stemming (I assume) from your Christian faith.
I am against the death penalty because I have no faith in its proper application. I think our justice system gets it wrong too often to allow it to take the ultimate step of killing somebody.
Its funny that you two are both against the death penalty , but for different reasons , while I am against it for both of those reasons .
Don Corleone
10-20-2006, 22:20
Well, Goofy is primarily against it due to it's misapplication. Even though he doesn't have a spiritual side (or at least claims not to), I'm sure he has a certain belief in humanism that killing humans is just plain wrong, regardless of whether God is there to say so or not. And I'm primarily focused on the moral side of it, but I too would have to agree that the numbers just don't add up to it getting applied properly. What's more, as it's irreversible, you can't ever be wrong... at least you hope you aren't.
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-20-2006, 22:21
It has to be capital murder:
-multiple
-police
-children
-after a kidnapping
Just murdering one person doesn't get you the big needle.
um yes it does. If you Kill Anyone, Young People,Old People,Middle Age People or Worse of the Worse, Babies/kids, you should get the "big needle".
in this case, he should he kill a Cop.
I am Christian also, but I believe in the Death Penatly. People who purposly kill other people, should be excuted. the only way you should and will get off is, if you kill someone in self-defensce, which IS understandable..
Don Corleone
10-20-2006, 22:25
um yes it does. If you Kill Anyone, Young People,Old People,Middle Age People or Worse of the Worse, Babies/kids, you should get the "big needle".
in this case, he should he kill a Cop.
I am Christian also, but I believe in the Death Penatly. People who purposly kill other people, should be excuted. the only way you should and will get off is, if you kill someone in self-defensce, which IS understandable..
I'm not going to get into a death penalty debate with you. Pindar has repeatedly tried to show me how a state applied death penalty doesn't violate Christ's commands in the gospels and I respectfully say that I take a different interpretation of Christ's teachings and leave it at that.
The post of mine however that you're quoting isn't my thoughts on what should qualify (capital murder) I was explaining the law for capital punishment in the state of New Hampshire. Whether you or I agree with it or not, that is what it currently is.
Horrible story. But a solution has appeared. Ship him to Texas, screw New Hampshire. We know how to properly remove scum from the earth.
_________________________
Speak softly and carry tactical nukes.
BigTex
Ridicolus
"Hilary Clinton is the devil"
~Texas proverb
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-21-2006, 00:06
I'm not going to get into a death penalty debate with you. Pindar has repeatedly tried to show me how a state applied death penalty doesn't violate Christ's commands in the gospels and I respectfully say that I take a different interpretation of Christ's teachings and leave it at that.
The post of mine however that you're quoting isn't my thoughts on what should qualify (capital murder) I was explaining the law for capital punishment in the state of New Hampshire. Whether you or I agree with it or not, that is what it currently is.
Well so be it then Don. Sorry Don, But there comes a time when you have to violate Chirst's Teaches in Search of Justice, and if you don't like it, then, we have a ploblem m8.
I do understand your second paragraph, since I wasn't directly sending my comments towards you, though on the laws of New Hampshire.
AntiochusIII
10-21-2006, 00:41
I wonder if my criminal activities which offends every rule ever written on the very fabric of the American Nation, the DMCA, qualifies me for the violation of Christ's teachings?
I need some bargaining chips for the Deal with the Devil, you know. Like souls of humans who violate Christ's teachings. The more the better. Especially gratifying is that they feel just while at it. Removing my head, that is. The Place de la Revolution is an ideal place to die; and a French world-famous execution equipment is a classy way for it, too. I'd be like, Mr. Carton
:thinking2:
Well so be it then Don. Sorry Don, But there comes a time when you have to violate Chirst's Teaches in Search of Justice, and if you don't like it, then, we have a ploblem m8.
If anyone wonders, of course I am joking. Quite frankly, a horrendous crime displays a certain need to prevent this individual from being able to do further harm to society. But sometimes basic Human Rights do exist for all biological humans, regardless of moral outrage...
Tribesman
10-21-2006, 00:57
Horrible story. But a solution has appeared. Ship him to Texas, screw New Hampshire. We know how to properly remove scum from the earth.
Oh dear , Texas where there are some real big questions to be answered about the application of justice and the death penalty .:no:
Tex , just because your State happens to get more executions done doesn't mean that they know how to do things properly .
Or would you consider China to be a great example of "properly removing scum from the earth" because of the amount of executions they carry out ?
Tribesman
10-21-2006, 03:03
It shames me to see the way that you guys deface the concept of honor. Honor , true honor, the kind that maintains or breaks societies, is nothing to laugh at. It is consistency in belief, thickness of integrity. A measure of how much you can trust someone or trust a community.
Such a noble concept .
So as a measure of the consistancy of your belief in this honour of the community thingy you are on about .
Considering the judicial process is often flawed , considering that up to two thirds of capital convictions in your country are later found to be flawed in one way or another . What honour is there in imposing the death penalty ?
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-21-2006, 03:09
It shames me to see the way that you guys deface the concept of honor. Honor , true honor, the kind that maintains or breaks societies, is nothing to laugh at. It is consistency in belief, thickness of integrity. A measure of how much you can trust someone or trust a community. A man without honor is a wretched, disgusting thing, and a community without honor is the kind of community the entire world would happily gang up on. I may not be a conventionally religious man, and I tend to distrust religion as a force of anti-progress, societally and scientifically, but I do believe that there is an after-life that rewards people of honor, and punishes those who go through life with no regard to their own dignity or the dignity of others.
What this man did was kill a fellow human being in cold blood. A human being who put his life on the line every day, who at one point even saved the criminal in question. If convicted, this man deserves none of the clemency we reserve for people of integrity or respect, and should be slain.
I don't believe in True Honour, but I do believe in Respect,Diginity and a Afterlife..
I Do Agree with you on the Second Paragraph, and I am happy a fellw .org/ (or oragh) member liek yourself agree with me. When you Kill someone,anyone, I'm sorry, but yourself, should also be killed. You screw up in life, and you faces the music.
Strike For The South
10-21-2006, 03:17
We know he did it We know he did it in cold blood We know he killed a police officer. He should be excuteued. Why should he live? He can make his peace with God.
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-21-2006, 04:31
God won't forgive him, he can go talk to the Devil First.
I don't know why People want him to go to jail. if He was actually sick, like half those people are, they won't really feel that "oh my god,spending the rest of my life here...." type feeling..
Oh dear , Texas where there are some real big questions to be answered about the application of justice and the death penalty .:no:
Tex , just because your State happens to get more executions done doesn't mean that they know how to do things properly .
Or would you consider China to be a great example of "properly removing scum from the earth" because of the amount of executions they carry out ?
Maybe you should do some research before spouting off. Firstly Texas is the second largest state in the USA (24,0000). Sensibly for a country who still has the death penalty and is the 3rd largest in the world, of course Texas would have quite a few executions. Also keep in mind that California executions yearly are 2nd to Texas, and they do keep step pretty well. The number of excutions China admits to is somewere on the line of 42 times that of Texas. Personally the death penalty is neccesary. If you kill multiple people in cold blood, you should be killed, scum shouldn't be allowed to live. I don't want my tax dollar's spent keeping a man alive who's slaughtered a cop, a cop who had saved the mans life.:shame:
Ignoramus
10-21-2006, 06:41
I agree with the death penalty in cases like this. Especially when jails(certainly here in Australia) are becoming like hotels.
Tribesman
10-21-2006, 11:26
Maybe you should do some research before spouting off. Firstly Texas is the second largest state in the USA (24,0000). Sensibly for a country who still has the death penalty and is the 3rd largest in the world, of course Texas would have quite a few executions. Also keep in mind that California executions yearly are 2nd to Texas, and they do keep step pretty well.
OMG how can i have been so stupid , I never realised that California by conducting 13 executions since executing prisoners was keeping in step with Texas:dizzy2:
Go on , enlighten me as to how far ahead Texas is when it comes to stepping in front of California for executing convicts and how many other States are between Texas in 1st place and California in 2nd .:whip:
Hey Tex .....who needs to do some research before spouting off ???
The number of excutions China admits to is somewere on the line of 42 times that of Texas.
Woo-hoo a bigger country with a dodgy judicary and totalitarian gomernment is sooooo much worse , which means yours is just soooooo much better .:no:
I agree with the death penalty in cases like this. Especially when jails(certainly here in Australia) are becoming like hotels.
Lol check out dutch cell,
http://www.rvi.be/rvi_master/insite/rvi_insite_cel_aa/cel3.jpg
I have lived in worse places.
Don Corleone
10-21-2006, 14:16
I don't think honor is laughable at all. It is an important ideal, for both the individual AND the society. But, if we want to have any hope of calling ourselves a society that respects and honors life, we must end the death penalty. You can't say "We honor life more than anything else... except...". No exceptions. It's either our greatest good or it's not.
From a Christian perspective, and it is hardly required, when you take somebody's life, you are denying them all the plans God had made for them in their life. And He has a plan for everyone, even copkillers and child rapists. They became copkillers and child rapists by not following His plan, but the plan is still there and it's never too late for them to come back. Except when they die.
Now some of you might argue how I can advocate for war, even in self-defense, with a view of life and death like that. Taking life can only be justified when it saves innocent ones or by killing one, you save few or many. It should always be done as a last resort, but there are times when it is absolutely necessary, to reduce the number of casualties long term. If we had allowed Al Queda and the Taleban to get yet another free pass in Afghanistan, we could have expected a significantly larger casualty rate on their next attack (and significantly larger than 3K is really starting to get somewhere). What's more, we invaded the home base of the people that attacked us, arguably still a defensive posture.
Iraq is another whole tomato, which is why I don't treat it as part of the War on Terror.
But through it all, honor must guide our actions. I totally agree with you there, GC. I would just argue that executions diminish, not restore, the honor of our society. When a criminal is already incarcerated, they are powerless. They can no longer act against society at large. If they continue to act against guards and fellow inmates, continue to ratchet up the security they face, right up to Pelican Bay type standards. But there is no 'need' to execute them, only a desire, and it is never honorable to kill with without a need.
Strike For The South
10-21-2006, 14:36
Lol check out dutch cell,
http://www.rvi.be/rvi_master/insite/rvi_insite_cel_aa/cel3.jpg
I have lived in worse places.
LIAR
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-21-2006, 15:16
I don't think honor is laughable at all. It is an important ideal, for both the individual AND the society. But, if we want to have any hope of calling ourselves a society that respects and honors life, we must end the death penalty. You can't say "We honor life more than anything else... except...". No exceptions. It's either our greatest good or it's not.
From a Christian perspective, and it is hardly required, when you take somebody's life, you are denying them all the plans God had made for them in their life. And He has a plan for everyone, even copkillers and child rapists. They became copkillers and child rapists by not following His plan, but the plan is still there and it's never too late for them to come back. Except when they die.
Now some of you might argue how I can advocate for war, even in self-defense, with a view of life and death like that. Taking life can only be justified when it saves innocent ones or by killing one, you save few or many. It should always be done as a last resort, but there are times when it is absolutely necessary, to reduce the number of casualties long term. If we had allowed Al Queda and the Taleban to get yet another free pass in Afghanistan, we could have expected a significantly larger casualty rate on their next attack (and significantly larger than 3K is really starting to get somewhere). What's more, we invaded the home base of the people that attacked us, arguably still a defensive posture.
Iraq is another whole tomato, which is why I don't treat it as part of the War on Terror.
But through it all, honor must guide our actions. I totally agree with you there, GC. I would just argue that executions diminish, not restore, the honor of our society. When a criminal is already incarcerated, they are powerless. They can no longer act against society at large. If they continue to act against guards and fellow inmates, continue to ratchet up the security they face, right up to Pelican Bay type standards. But there is no 'need' to execute them, only a desire, and it is never honorable to kill with without a need.
Well m8, going to disagree with you. "not honorable to kill without a need", well, he should be killed, period. I don't really care,if God Saids this or that, when he dies, He's going to have a Nice Talk with God and his fate will be Hell IMO. Why stick him in Jail,explain please. Why should we WASTE Money on keeping a sick SOB in jail? Honour you say,eh? Well, Honour isn't all that good, and when it comes down to wasting money on a Sick Cop Killer, or having the Cop's Family grive, I'll say F Honour,kill the guy, lets Get the Actunal Justice around here.
Kaiser of Arabia
10-21-2006, 16:09
I hope this turns into one of those cases where, no matter what is sentance, he gets shot while leaving the courtroom, and no cop would bother to save his life. That'd be justice, I think.
If he's guilty, of course, which I feel he is.
Despicable. That man who was saved wasn't worth saving in the first place. It just shows what evil people we have on this planet, he should pay a harsh penalty for what he did.
Tribesman
10-21-2006, 18:45
Why stick him in Jail,explain please. Why should we WASTE Money on keeping a sick SOB in jail?
So funny , just too funny .
Big Tex made a similar point with ...... I don't want my tax dollar's spent keeping a man alive who's slaughtered a cop, a cop who had saved the mans life.
Perhaps you should heed his words and Maybe you should do some research before spouting off. .
Then maybe you could explain how executing a prisoner supposedly works out cheaper than incarcerating them for the rest of their natural with no parole :idea2:
Because States governments have done studies on this , Kansas has a good one , Florida has an even better one . :yes:
So if your case is based on saving you money , you have no case at all :oops:
Oh and before someone comes up with the final plank that they will attempt to use to justify the death penalty ...the value of the death penalty for detering crime ..... I suggest you take note of the bolded phrase above:book:
So funny , just too funny .
Big Tex made a similar point with ...... I don't want my tax dollar's spent keeping a man alive who's slaughtered a cop, a cop who had saved the mans life.
Perhaps you should heed his words and Maybe you should do some research before spouting off. .
Then maybe you could explain how executing a prisoner supposedly works out cheaper than incarcerating them for the rest of their natural with no parole :idea2:
Because States governments have done studies on this , Kansas has a good one , Florida has an even better one . :yes:
So if your case is based on saving you money , you have no case at all :oops:
Oh and before someone comes up with the final plank that they will attempt to use to justify the death penalty ...the value of the death penalty for detering crime ..... I suggest you take note of the bolded phrase above:book:
Only in some states is it more costly, and thats becuase they stretch the trials out for decades. Texas on the other hand, we've got an express lane.
____________________
Speak softly and carry tactical nukes.
BigTex
Ridicolus
"Hilary Clinton is the devil"
~Texas proverb
Crazed Rabbit
10-21-2006, 18:57
Tribesy, that's only because of the nigh-endless appeals prisoners get, and the way they can stay on death row for 20 years, and you know it. If it was reformed to still allow apeals, of course, but not endless delays it woudn't be so expensive.
This murderer deserves death-it is justice for taking another's life.
Crazed Rabbit
AntiochusIII
10-21-2006, 19:12
Somehow, honor killings start to come to mind as I read more and more of this thread. It's all in the name of honor, people.
:thinking2:
Seriously, the moral outrage is understandable -- the guy is a criminal through and through -- but the call is getting tiring. Let the judicial system does its thing. If it goes political (as it is now), Massachusetts should just extradite the man with some backroom deal to not have him executed in New Hampshire or something.
I don't want to start any Death Penalty debate here, but it's increasingly tempting. :clown:
Tribesman
10-21-2006, 19:30
Tribesy, that's only because of the nigh-endless appeals prisoners get
Yep , and you have to have the appeals process because once you kill someone there is no way to make amends when the judicary screws up .
This murderer deserves death-it is justice for taking another's life.
It isn't justice , it is just a little old time vengeance to give people a rosy satisfied glow .
Texas on the other hand, we've got an express lane.
Yep I noted that earlier ......Oh dear , Texas where there are some real big questions to be answered about the application of justice and the death penalty :no: .
So Big Tex , how many people has Americas leading execution State killed , yet after the act has been carried out said :oops: perhaps that was a mistake .
You know little things like flawed proceedings , mental patients with serious disorders being the sole star witness , DNA evidence surfacing after the execution which supported the convicts claims , witnesses who couldn't have seen events clearly testifying while those that were right in the centre of events were not even presented , psyciactric assesments of suspects by "proffesionals" who had never even met let alone assessed the suspect .
Hey if you are so proud of having an express lane why not go the whole hog and just bring on some good ol' really rapid lynchings , just think how cheap that would be for you tax money .
by wanting to punish the killer you imply (rightly) that willfully causing death is entirely wrong,
you then want to willfully cause death to the killer
murder is always wrong, killing another human is always wrong, yes he should be punished severley, but we have prisons for a reason, and better we keep this sort of criminals in them than those who commit petty theft etc.
by wanting to punish the killer you imply (rightly) that willfully causing death is entirely wrong,
you then want to willfully cause death to the killer
murder is always wrong, killing another human is always wrong, yes he should be punished severley, but we have prisons for a reason, and better we keep this sort of criminals in them than those who commit petty theft etc.
If he didn't want to be executed why did he commit a capital offence in a state that still had the death penalty. This was his choice, he always could have chosen not to kill the cop who saved his life. If he didn't like the consequences of his actions he shouldnt have done that.
Tribesman it takes quite alot to get anyone convicted and sentenced the death penalty. The express lane is for those who have committed a capitol murder and there were 2 or more credible witness to the event, almost always its more. It's gonna take quite alot to convince the district attorney you did it, and then to convince 12 more of your peers you did it. Though I do agree the redtape over the DNA testing is wrong, and should really be done away with. There's no reason why for a test thats quick and not that expensive it shouldn't be done. A person on death row should be given all the abilities possible to show he was innocent within reason. No Tuki Williams stuff, your not siting on death row for 30 years and going through dozens of appeals.
If your going to commit murder, go to New York, you wont be executed and I hear they even let you out on the weekends to visit your family.:juggle2:
_________________________
Speak softly and carry tactical nukes.
BigTex
Ridicolus
"Hilary Clinton is the devil"
~Texas proverb
I am all in favor of the the death penalty for this sort of disgusting crime (both to reduce taxes and reduce the amount of evil criminals that are free). In my opinion he should be tortured and then executed for this evil crime. I also think it should be done publicly so that he can be shamed infront of many people before his death. The sort of person that would kill the man that saved his life is not worth the food that is needed to sustain him.
I am all in favor of the the death penalty for this sort of disgusting crime (both to reduce taxes and reduce the amount of evil criminals that are free). In my opinion he should be tortured and then executed for this evil crime. I also think it should be done publicly so that he can be shamed infront of many people before his death. The sort of person that would kill the man that saved his life is not worth the food that is needed to sustain him.
erm.... Firstly, he didnt know he was killing the man who saved his life. This doesnt make what he did right, but it cuts the melodrama.
Second, torture is completely wrong - and even then what are you torturing him for? torture is useful purely for gaining information. the murderer wasnt even evil even torturte the police officer, yet you would torture him
third, it would reduce the number of evil criminals that are free just as much as if he was in jail, and killing people isnt cheap, it costs
lastly, what kind of sick person wants to watch a public excetution? hardly a crowd pleaser - anyway how is public execution at all shameful (or any less so than non-public) if anything it would be nice knowing your giving kids nightmares throughout there lives as you end yours
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-21-2006, 21:21
So funny , just too funny .
Big Tex made a similar point with ...... I don't want my tax dollar's spent keeping a man alive who's slaughtered a cop, a cop who had saved the mans life.
Perhaps you should heed his words and Maybe you should do some research before spouting off. .
Then maybe you could explain how executing a prisoner supposedly works out cheaper than incarcerating them for the rest of their natural with no parole :idea2:
Because States governments have done studies on this , Kansas has a good one , Florida has an even better one . :yes:
So if your case is based on saving you money , you have no case at all :oops:
Oh and before someone comes up with the final plank that they will attempt to use to justify the death penalty ...the value of the death penalty for detering crime ..... I suggest you take note of the bolded phrase above:book:
What is funny is what is above. How old is this guy? (don't got time to re-read it now) he's going to be in Jail for the next 40-60 years depending on his age, Yet you think it's cheaper to stick him in jail for a life sentance? :no:
Hm, I like to call myself part of that group of terrible, godless, amoral people who believe in the death penalty. (Or so the misconception goes.)
When people sink to this level, (or in my personal opinion, the moment they have anything beyond a misdemeanour on their record), they're no longer a contributing member of society and deserve to be removed from it by whatever means seems fitting to the crime. Rehabilitation for people like this is not a possibility, don't give me your 'amnesty helps rehab' garbage, 10 cents for a bullet costs a heck of a lot less than thousands upon thousands of dollars for jail time, trial, police work, and everything else that goes into attempting to catch this filth. And throw your burial costs and paperwork out the window too, societal trash like this deserves a mass grave where nobody cares who you are, because you didn't care who you killed. Sounds perfectly fair to me. But no, instead we just let our ineffective and worthless justice system let them out in 3 years on "good behavior", which is also a moronic policy. You're in jail, why? Bad behavior, so..what, we let you out before your sentence is served because compared to the rest of the arses in there, maybe you know how to pretend like you're a nice guy? It's all nonsense.
I've been working since I was fifteen years old, now I work full time and go to college part time, I volunteer for community services, I'm religious, I don't have so much as a parking ticket on my record. I'm not asking everybody to be an angel. Just a decent freaking human being. I have seen my hometown, where I've lived my entire life, go downhill because of people like this, and the only thing they deserve is to have done to them exactly what they do to good, honest people.
American ideals might be great, but let's face it, its policy is absolute filth.
Everybody is entitled moreso than anything to the rights of life and liberty, when you violate these rights of another human being, you should no longer be entitled to these things. It's that simple. For those of you who don't like it, go ahead and hop in bed with your murderers and your drug dealers, your rapists and your child molestors, your arsonists and your extortionists. My ideas may darn well not be the greatest in the world, but they're sure as heck better than the twisted criminal loving garbage I hear from some people.
Reenk Roink
10-21-2006, 21:33
Yet you think it's cheaper to stick him in jail for a life sentance? :no:
Studies have shown it is just that...
You cannot make a case for the death penalty on money. Best leave it too the "eye for an eye" argument (convincing, at least personally).
Tribesman
10-21-2006, 21:43
Tribesman it takes quite alot to get anyone convicted and sentenced the death penalty. The express lane is for those who have committed a capitol murder and there were 2 or more credible witness to the event, almost always its more.
You really should try learning about the death penalty in your own State before you post any further Tex :no:
So far practically nothing you have written has even the remotest resemblance to reality .
What is funny is what is above. How old is this guy? (don't got time to re-read it now) he's going to be in Jail for the next 40-60 years depending on his age, Yet you think it's cheaper to stick him in jail for a life sentance?
What is funny is that you have obviously posted without bothering to heed the bit that was bolded (originally posted by BigTex:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: )that you quoted .
So I repeat
Maybe you should do some research before spouting off.
If you had you wouldn't have written what you just have .
Perhaps you could have read Rabbits reply , he clearly understands the results of individual States own inquiries from their own studies of costs .
And BTW they find that it ain't cheaper , not by a long shot , it ain't chump change figures they are talking about here
Would you care to guess by how many million dollars it ain't cheaper ?
I am all in favor of the the death penalty for this sort of disgusting crime (both to reduce taxes and reduce the amount of evil criminals that are free). ~:doh: another one:wall:
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-21-2006, 22:36
You really should try learning about the death penalty in your own State before you post any further Tex :no:
So far practically nothing you have written has even the remotest resemblance to reality .
What is funny is that you have obviously posted without bothering to heed the bit that was bolded (originally posted by BigTex:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: )that you quoted .
So I repeat
Maybe you should do some research before spouting off.
If you had you wouldn't have written what you just have .
Perhaps you could have read Rabbits reply , he clearly understands the results of individual States own inquiries from their own studies of costs .
And BTW they find that it ain't cheaper , not by a long shot , it ain't chump change figures they are talking about here
Would you care to guess by how many million dollars it ain't cheaper ?
~:doh: another one:wall:
what is funny is, start reading other posts :no: , and I quote the following post
"Hm, I like to call myself part of that group of terrible, godless, amoral people who believe in the death penalty. (Or so the misconception goes.)
When people sink to this level, (or in my personal opinion, the moment they have anything beyond a misdemeanour on their record), they're no longer a contributing member of society and deserve to be removed from it by whatever means seems fitting to the crime. Rehabilitation for people like this is not a possibility, don't give me your 'amnesty helps rehab' garbage, 10 cents for a bullet costs a heck of a lot less than thousands upon thousands of dollars for jail time, trial, police work, and everything else that goes into attempting to catch this filth. And throw your burial costs and paperwork out the window too, societal trash like this deserves a mass grave where nobody cares who you are, because you didn't care who you killed. Sounds perfectly fair to me. But no, instead we just let our ineffective and worthless justice system let them out in 3 years on "good behavior", which is also a moronic policy. You're in jail, why? Bad behavior, so..what, we let you out before your sentence is served because compared to the rest of the arses in there, maybe you know how to pretend like you're a nice guy? It's all nonsense.
I've been working since I was fifteen years old, now I work full time and go to college part time, I volunteer for community services, I'm religious, I don't have so much as a parking ticket on my record. I'm not asking everybody to be an angel. Just a decent freaking human being. I have seen my hometown, where I've lived my entire life, go downhill because of people like this, and the only thing they deserve is to have done to them exactly what they do to good, honest people.
American ideals might be great, but let's face it, its policy is absolute filth.
Everybody is entitled moreso than anything to the rights of life and liberty, when you violate these rights of another human being, you should no longer be entitled to these things. It's that simple. For those of you who don't like it, go ahead and hop in bed with your murderers and your drug dealers, your rapists and your child molestors, your arsonists and your extortionists. My ideas may darn well not be the greatest in the world, but they're sure as heck better than the twisted criminal loving garbage I hear from some people."
Agreed Lucjac,
what Else can I say,besides the above?
Tribesman
10-22-2006, 00:27
what is funny is, start reading other posts
Well I read them , and if they contain nothing but emotional garbage they get ignored as rubbish , if they contain statements that are contrary to fact then they get those flaws pointed out .
If they cannot come up with anything to counter the obvious flaws in their position then their position is nonsensical , if their position is nosense then no matter how many times they try and ignore fact and pile on more emotional crap then it is still nonsense .
what Else can I say,besides the above?
Exactly , you came upwith arguements that were flawed, you cannot answer those flaws , so you repaet some emotional rubbish .
Oh look .....
Bull. Or at least, half-bull.
Nope , fact , but you don't like the fact .
What costs money is the ridiculous methods we use to kill them (Lethal Injection? Extravegant gas chambers? wtf?) and especially the lengthy and overly stupid legal process that these people subject the state to while they wait a few decades for the sentance to be carried out.
So you are against due process then GC .
It should go as thus: Trial, Conviction, Appeal to State Supreme Court right away to cut the crap and make it quick, if appeal is denied you get hung nice and cheap.
Wham bam thank-you ma'am, no more leeching Death Row losers.
Wow , now what did I write earlier Hey if you are so proud of having an express lane why not go the whole hog and just bring on some good ol' really rapid lynchings , just think how cheap that would be for you tax money .:thumbsdown:
Since Warman quoted Lucjac it gives a nice little lead that perhaps Tex could look into since it is his States express that he is so proud of that is involved .
Everybody is entitled moreso than anything to the rights of life and liberty, when you violate these rights of another human being, you should no longer be entitled to these things. It's that simple. For those of you who don't like it, go ahead and hop in bed with your murderers and your drug dealers, your rapists and your child molestors, your arsonists and your extortionists. My ideas may darn well not be the greatest in the world, but they're sure as heck better than the twisted criminal loving garbage I hear from some people."
murderes of children , damn shitebags , arsonist scum indeed terrible , so what do you get when you have an arsonist child killer ?
woo-hoo a nice little express killing to make people feel good that the killer of the 3 children ain't clogging up the prison system .
Its just a bit of a bugger when a proper investigation of the murder by arson turns up the fact that the forensics that sent the convict to his death for murdering his kids was bollox and it wasn't arson it was just a frigging normal tragic accidental house fire .:oops:
But hey mistakes happen ~:doh:
So far not a single rational reason for supporting capital punishment , just the usual "they are scum so deserve to die" rubbish .
Tribesman
10-22-2006, 00:59
You take a position, and say anything to defend it, absolutely refusing to buckle-down and look at the other argument seriously.
Cube , I have looked at the issue and arguements involved seriously for several decades , that is why I take the position .
You want the ultimate punishment , the be all and end all when it comes to law , but you don't like the expense that is involved in ensuring that justice is properly done .
You just want quick cheap vengance dressed up as justice , well I hate to burst your bubble , but that ain't justice in any sense of the word , and to use a word used earlier , it is deviod of any honour at all .
Those processes you moan about are there for a reason , a damn good reason , mistakes happen , even with all the the lengthy process mistakes still happen .
That is why capital punishment is bollox , because you cannot undo the mistakes when you kill the wrong suspect .
But hey , I am sure you have faith in your justice system , to quote Tex again....
It's gonna take quite alot to convince the district attorney you did it, and then to convince 12 more of your peers you did it.....
so whaddaya reckon on OJ ? how about Jackson ? and for all the conservatives out there how about the Kennedy clan ?:laugh4:
For those this side of the pond , whaddaya reckon on Guildford or Birmingham , if the Brits still had the death penalty do you thing they would have got a sorry 'bout that . Or what was that contentious one from the '50s that got sorted recently , that Bentley fella .
Well someone had to hang for that didn't they , after all it was a policeman that was killed and someone has to face the rope for serious stuff like that don't they .:oops:
Tribesman
10-22-2006, 01:22
Once again, you don't actually focus on the meat of my argument, merely attacking your preconcieved notion of the spirit behind my argument. Saying I want a swift death dressed up as justice? Eh?
You want some meat , here
No, I want to see the system stream-lined. If convicted, they should get to appeal straight to the State Supreme Court--it's life and death, so might as well go straight to them. If convicted there too, we should hold them only long enough to allow any immediate mistakes to surface--no more than a year. After that, we should kill them as cheaply as possible.
Take a look at those cases at at end of my last post , you want a year to avoid mistakes right , thats 12 months last time I looked , how many months passed before they finally admitted they screwed up in those 3 cases .
Hey in the first two cases there was a big push to bring back hanging just to make sure the murdering scum got what they deserved , turns out they got the wrong people though .
Incarceration in general, in fact, should be made far less luxurious.
agreed , and an end to early release .
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-22-2006, 01:53
Well I read them , and if they contain nothing but emotional garbage they get ignored as rubbish , if they contain statements that are contrary to fact then they get those flaws pointed out .
If they cannot come up with anything to counter the obvious flaws in their position then their position is nonsensical , if their position is nosense then no matter how many times they try and ignore fact and pile on more emotional crap then it is still nonsense .
Exactly , you came upwith arguements that were flawed, you cannot answer those flaws , so you repaet some emotional rubbish .
murderes of children , damn shitebags , arsonist scum indeed terrible , so what do you get when you have an arsonist child killer ?
woo-hoo a nice little express killing to make people feel good that the killer of the 3 children ain't clogging up the prison system .
Its just a bit of a bugger when a proper investigation of the murder by arson turns up the fact that the forensics that sent the convict to his death for murdering his kids was bollox and it wasn't arson it was just a frigging normal tragic accidental house fire .:oops:
But hey mistakes happen ~:doh:
So far not a single rational reason for supporting capital punishment , just the usual "they are scum so deserve to die" rubbish .
Me,Rubbish Facts? Some Reson, I just love when People Say "Rubbish" when they trying to put up a argument with me,sounds funny,don't know why,
but I tell you what I think of your "well, no good reason yet" crap.
Yes,Mistakes Happen, but that is NO Reason to take away the Death Penalty. Now,I'm going to ask you something,Tribes,Answer Honteslty,
If your,Say, Son (presume you older then me and got a family,if not,pretend), gets murder at the Park, IE. Would you like the guy,go to Jail,rest of his Life, OR, get excuted?
yea yea, I know what you going to say, that Rest of His Life Bullshit. Ok, why,Why, would you like to waste Taxpayers Money,on Those Scum of Society,eh? We got enough ploblems of the Goverment playing with our money, we don't need to throw more out the window for this kind of scum.
I save the rest for my next argumently Post.
Also,your quote
"Incarceration in general, in fact, should be made far less luxurious."
I third,also agree. It makes me sick,when those scumbags DO get throw in Jail for a Life Sentence, get a luxurious jail cell, just makes me sick.
I've spoken my mind, you guys can go ahead and waste your breathe argueing with him, but I can't be bothered with getting myself all riled up over someone whose blatant misinterpretation and politically distorted reprisals to my own personal opinion, to which I'm entitled, attempt to draw me into some drawn out arguement over why I'm smarter than him or vice-a-versa. It's not sensible.
Common sense is instinct, enough of it is genius. I don't claim to be a genius, but I can't be bothered with an arguement against my personal opinion that's so baseless it fails to even reach the level of "common."
IrishArmenian
10-22-2006, 02:58
I say give him life without the chance for parole, but probably in America that means he gets off the hook in ten years or so. The justice system over there seems quite soft, except for Texas and Oregon.
Crazed Rabbit
10-22-2006, 03:12
We're not that soft, IA. You might be thinking of Europe (I was reading Ireland's average "life" sentence is 13 or so years.)
(Speaking of Ireland- send Russell back over here already! He best not get asylum.:furious3: )
Crazed Rabbit
Tribesman
10-22-2006, 03:46
Heres a page on Bentley GC .
http://www.richard.clark32.btinternet.co.uk/bentley.html
I am sure you shouldn't have much trouble finding info on the Birmingham and Guildford pub bombings by yourself , they have even made several big blockbuster films about it:yes:
But, here's what I have to say towards mistakes in general, regarding the death penalty: Shit Happens. Most estimates here in the US regarding how many people have been falsely convicted are grossly exaggerated, and the real number is, while not exactly neglible (things like this are never neglible) it is within the acceptable limits.
So shit happens , what would you define as acceptable limits for wrongful execution .
Come on think of a number , you must have thought about it to be able to come to that conclusion , so how many do you consider it is right to accept ?
Onto Warman
If your,Say, Son (presume you older then me and got a family,if not,pretend), gets murder at the Park, IE. Would you like the guy,go to Jail,rest of his Life, OR, get excuted?
What purpose would the execution serve ?
Me,Rubbish Facts? Some Reson, I just love when People Say "Rubbish" when they trying to put up a argument with me,sounds funny,don't know why
Well you clearly challenged the point about cost , since you obviously didn't know any facts about costs then it is a rubbish "fact" you posted isn't it .
Yes,Mistakes Happen, but that is NO Reason to take away the Death Penalty.
Unless you are really happy that innocent people are killed by the State in the name of justice then it is every reason to take away the death penalty .
So warman , are you happy if innocent people are killed ?
I notice that once again you bring money into it ........Ok, why,Why, would you like to waste Taxpayers Money,on Those Scum of Society,eh? We got enough ploblems of the Goverment playing with our money, we don't need to throw more out the window for this kind of scum.
I take it that you have now realised that implementing the death penalty costs more than incarceration (or hasn't that fact sunk in yet ?) , so do you mean that you want to reduce the costs of the process by removing some of stages that try to ensure they don't fry the wrong person ?
I've spoken my mind, you guys can go ahead and waste your breathe argueing with him, but I can't be bothered with getting myself all riled up over someone whose blatant misinterpretation and politically distorted reprisals to my own personal opinion, to which I'm entitled, attempt to draw me into some drawn out arguement over why I'm smarter than him or vice-a-versa. It's not sensible.
Is it not sensible to question and examine your peronal opinion then Lucjan ?thats a novel approach .
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-22-2006, 04:06
Heres a page on Bentley GC .
http://www.richard.clark32.btinternet.co.uk/bentley.html
I am sure you shouldn't have much trouble finding info on the Birmingham and Guildford pub bombings by yourself , they have even made several big blockbuster films about it:yes:
So shit happens , what would you define as acceptable limits for wrongful execution .
Come on think of a number , you must have thought about it to be able to come to that conclusion , so how many do you consider it is right to accept ?
Onto Warman
What purpose would the execution serve ?
Well you clearly challenged the point about cost , since you obviously didn't know any facts about costs then it is a rubbish "fact" you posted isn't it .
Unless you are really happy that innocent people are killed by the State in the name of justice then it is every reason to take away the death penalty .
So warman , are you happy if innocent people are killed ?
I notice that once again you bring money into it ........Ok, why,Why, would you like to waste Taxpayers Money,on Those Scum of Society,eh? We got enough ploblems of the Goverment playing with our money, we don't need to throw more out the window for this kind of scum.
I take it that you have now realised that implementing the death penalty costs more than incarceration (or hasn't that fact sunk in yet ?) , so do you mean that you want to reduce the costs of the process by removing some of stages that try to ensure they don't fry the wrong person ?
Is it not sensible to question and examine your peronal opinion then Lucjan ?thats a novel approach .
No, but it seems like you refuse to back down from your Point of View, and nethier will I.so best dig in for a long argument.
So what. They still can put the wrong Person in Jail,for the rest of their Lives. I bet you would be whining (but happy you not on Death Row) if they wrongly convicted you and stuck you in Jail untill you died,if for example, they take away death row.
In a Death Trial, it should be more serious,because that person you "sending" to get killed,may be innocent,yes, but come on. if someone killed one of your friends, or family, would you like them to die? You can Say "no No No" all you want Tribes, and I can say "yes yes yes", but we won't know unless it happens to us or anyone else on this fourm,which I hope it never does.
"I've spoken my mind, you guys can go ahead and waste your breathe argueing with him, but I can't be bothered with getting myself all riled up over someone whose blatant misinterpretation and politically distorted reprisals to my own personal opinion, to which I'm entitled, attempt to draw me into some drawn out arguement over why I'm smarter than him or vice-a-versa. It's not sensible. "
Agreed, but I'll argue my point of view with him untill I get annoyed,and I'm not done yet
If you kill someone, you derserve to be Killed, period. If you don't like my Point of View, Well, tough,deal with it. I got mine, and you got yours.If you want to convince me,well you ain't.
Death Row is the only Way. People who oppose it,like Tribes, are the ones who take God's Laws into Full Effect, or whine about innocent people get killed. Well Tribes,you know what? Innocent People Die in Wars to,Iraw,for example, so there you go bud,don't like it,oh well..
Don Corleone
10-22-2006, 04:06
On an apparently unrelated note to the way this thread has gone, the funeral for Officer Briggs was held today. Approximately 5000 people attended, including his wife and 3 kids. Sad, really. There was absolutely no reason for Michael Addisson to have shot him, other than he wanted to. ~:angry:
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-22-2006, 04:16
Also, He killed the Officer Briggs, who had a Wife and 3 kids.
I think they would have more justice, if that SOB was dead,not alive. it won't have them stop greiving, but at least they know, the SOB who killed their dad/husband is dead..
You really should try learning about the death penalty in your own State before you post any further Tex
So far practically nothing you have written has even the remotest resemblance to reality .
The portion of text your taking completely out of context is about the express execution process. Yes indeed it does require at least 2 eye witness, though that is rare, the last time there was only 2 eye witness there was quite the media uproar about that.
Well I read them , and if they contain nothing but emotional garbage they get ignored as rubbish ,
Quote:
It's funny that you and I are both against the death penalty, but for different reasons, and yours are probably the more noble of the two.
It sounds like you are against the death penalty because of a belief in the sanctity of human life, stemming (I assume) from your Christian faith.
I am against the death penalty because I have no faith in its proper application. I think our justice system gets it wrong too often to allow it to take the ultimate step of killing somebody.
Its funny that you two are both against the death penalty , but for different reasons , while I am against it for both of those reasons .
:oops:
__________________________
Speak softly and carry tactical nukes.
BigTex
Ridicolus
"Hilary Clinton is the devil"
~Texas proverb
Also, He killed the Officer Briggs, who had a Wife and 3 kids.
I think they would have more justice, if that SOB was dead,not alive. it won't have them stop greiving, but at least they know, the SOB who killed their dad/husband is dead..
How would that help anything?
No one has the right to take another persons life no matter what said person has done.
just out of interest, would it be a possible life sentance for any murderer (ie. killing one person) or does the crime have to be more serious? Does the fact its a police officer increase the seriousness of the crime?
I think they would have more justice, if that SOB was dead,not alive. it won't have them stop greiving, but at least they know, the SOB who killed their dad/husband is dead..
I can't see how a family can be comforted by the murder of their loved ones murderer, to start with, theirs the criminals family to think about - maybe they should kill the executioner to comfort the criminals family :2thumbsup:
Tribesman
10-22-2006, 11:28
In a Death Trial, it should be more serious,because that person you "sending" to get killed,may be innocent,yes, but come on. if someone killed one of your friends, or family, would you like them to die? You can Say "no No No" all you want Tribes, and I can say "yes yes yes", but we won't know unless it happens to us or anyone else on this fourm,which I hope it never does.
Well there you go Warman , you don't know do you .
But I know many times , so where does your little theory go now .
If you kill someone, you derserve to be Killed, period. If you don't like my Point of View, Well, tough,deal with it. I got mine, and you got yours.If you want to convince me,well you ain't.
Death Row is the only Way. People who oppose it,like Tribes, are the ones who take God's Laws into Full Effect, or whine about innocent people get killed. Well Tribes,you know what? Innocent People Die in Wars to,Iraw,for example, so there you go bud,don't like it,oh well..
So you have your little theory , you have your point of view .
but how have you formed your little point of view ?
What is the basis for it , what is the rationale behind it ?
Answer a question I put earlier .
What purpose would the execution serve ?
A simple question isn't it , there are many answers that could be put forward , but they don't stand up to any kind of scrutiny .
So come on , what can you come up with in support of capital punishment .
All you have managed so far is "killers deserve to die" ' which is bollox based on some crazy feel good factor .
All you have managed so far is "killers deserve to die" ' which is bollox based on some crazy feel good factor .
Prison itself is based soley upon the retribution principle. Some systems have attempted to use the prison sentence as an attempt to rehab the criminal into a productive member of society, but the concept of prison itself is based upon a retribution on the criminal for his behavior. The death penelty is the ulitmate form of retribution that the state has for one's crime. If one is stating that the death penelty is based upon some crazy feel good factor - what does that individual base prison sentence upon? Is it not the same thing?
Both the life sentence and the death penelty have as a base the basic retribution principle of punishment for one's actions.
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-22-2006, 14:40
Well there you go Warman , you don't know do you .
But I know many times , so where does your little theory go now .
So you have your little theory , you have your point of view .
but how have you formed your little point of view ?
What is the basis for it , what is the rationale behind it ?
Answer a question I put earlier .
What purpose would the execution serve ?
A simple question isn't it , there are many answers that could be put forward , but they don't stand up to any kind of scrutiny .
So come on , what can you come up with in support of capital punishment .
All you have managed so far is "killers deserve to die" ' which is bollox based on some crazy feel good factor .
It would serve justice, a 7 letter word, which you seem not to fully understand,to a point anyhow.
What purpose would it served?
read up above, Justice. You want to Kill Someone, go ahead, kill them. Then you'll regret it, when you hear they sticking the death pentaly on you. It Makes the people think (or try to,most killers,including gang banger kids are to stupid to realize that) not to do it, unless you want the jury to deicde your Life.
And my Question to you, which you should Answer
What Purpose does Life in Prision Serve then when you killed someone/someones?
Tribesman
10-22-2006, 18:10
Prison itself is based soley upon the retribution principle
No it isn't Red, the main purpose of incarceration is to remove someone from general society . But if you read the final line in this post you see the difference between the death penalty and life imprisonment .
read up above, Justice.
Nope , back up there Warman , if a misjustice is served then it tarnishes the whole justice system . you cannot rectify a mistake after the death penalty can you .
You want to Kill Someone, go ahead, kill them. Then you'll regret it, when you hear they sticking the death pentaly on you. It Makes the people think (or try to,most killers,including gang banger kids are to stupid to realize that) not to do it, unless you want the jury to deicde your Life.
So its a deterant ~:doh: whaddya know.....Oh and before someone comes up with the final plank that they will attempt to use to justify the death penalty ...the value of the death penalty for detering crime ..... I suggest you take note of the bolded phrase above
So would you like to dispute Americas murder statistics when it comes to the value of the death penalty making people think about killing ?:no:
And my Question to you, which you should Answer
What Purpose does Life in Prision Serve then when you killed someone/someones?
So I should answer ?????? No answer from you though is there , or do you call that tripe .....It would serve justice, a rational basis for your position .
whassup ? you throw out garbage about relatives feelings , what do you know about it ?
Come on there must be some basis for your position , any of your friends been murdered perhaps , that might give you an insight ....No .....well you are a lucky bugger ain't ya , I hope it keeps up for you .
How about the other side of the coin , how many killers do you know ?
Do you have any knowledge concerning murder at all or is it just based on stuff you read in the news ?
But to answer your question , the purpose it serves is to remove the person from society , without the inherant risk of an unrectifiable mistake being made .
No it isn't Red, the main purpose of incarceration is to remove someone from general society . But if you read the final line in this post you see the difference between the death penalty and life imprisonment .
No Tribesman -do a little research, the main purposes of punishment is retribution, a punishment for one's crimes. The removal from society is the form of punishment. Life in prison is a punishment, a form of retribution since the system sees on hope of reform for that individual. So instead of following the other principle of the penal system - one of reforming the individual, an individual sent to prison for life is only left with the prison being used as a form of punishment. The removal from society is a subset of retibution in the punishment for a crime. One must first commit a crime before one is removed from society - ie going to jail is the retribution for committing the crime.
That is why your final line does not make since.
Hell I am more in favor of life in prison, especially solitare confidement for capital crimes - for the simple fact that it insure that the individual has to suffer the consequences of his decision for a long time. Prison life trapped in a 6 by 8 cell for the remain years of your life is a whole lot more retribution on that individual then a quick death.
Ser Clegane
10-22-2006, 19:14
The removal from society is a subset of retibution in the punishment for a crime.
Not necessarily - removal from society also serves to protect society.
Punishment is only one aspect of putting someone into prison.
Not necessarily - removal from society also serves to protect society.
Punishment is only one aspect of putting someone into prison.
Its one of the least important aspects, i think both rehabilitation and protection are higher priorities,
simple punishment solves nothing, the idea of punishment is to teach someone that something they have done is wrong (ie. children are taught what not to do by punishment that comes after they behave badly) this should be the primary aim of prisons for, to teach criminals what they have done is wrong, and then let them back out - hopefully to a better life.
The death penalty doesnt allow this - it implies that criminals will always be criminals, no matter how they might change
Ser Clegane
10-22-2006, 19:27
Its one of the least important aspects, i think both rehabilitation and protection are higher priorities,
This is certainly arguable and depends not only on personal views on the issue but also on the nature of the crime/case
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-22-2006, 20:13
No it isn't Red, the main purpose of incarceration is to remove someone from general society . But if you read the final line in this post you see the difference between the death penalty and life imprisonment .
Nope , back up there Warman , if a misjustice is served then it tarnishes the whole justice system . you cannot rectify a mistake after the death penalty can you .
So its a deterant ~:doh: whaddya know.....Oh and before someone comes up with the final plank that they will attempt to use to justify the death penalty ...the value of the death penalty for detering crime ..... I suggest you take note of the bolded phrase above
So would you like to dispute Americas murder statistics when it comes to the value of the death penalty making people think about killing ?:no:
So I should answer ?????? No answer from you though is there , or do you call that tripe .....It would serve justice, a rational basis for your position .
whassup ? you throw out garbage about relatives feelings , what do you know about it ?
Come on there must be some basis for your position , any of your friends been murdered perhaps , that might give you an insight ....No .....well you are a lucky bugger ain't ya , I hope it keeps up for you .
How about the other side of the coin , how many killers do you know ?
Do you have any knowledge concerning murder at all or is it just based on stuff you read in the news ?
But to answer your question , the purpose it serves is to remove the person from society , without the inherant risk of an unrectifiable mistake being made .
Yea, but you still can make a mistake. Recently, in my hometown of Pittsburgh, a man been realsed few months ago ( and got re-arrtesed for exposing himself :no: ) for beening wrongly convincted of Rape and murder, and got a Life Sentance, but only served 20 years,because of DNA testing they did few months back.
I answer your question, I can't help it if you can't put up a good answer to mine,do some Research,Like Red Propose :inquisitive:
Ok,you answered it, short answer, but I answered your questions post ago, guess.... Never mind. I hope you never become a Sentor of my state or Preisdent, because if you do, I bet you would wipe out Death Pentaly, and leave innocent people in jail also,with actual killers,k bud,real smart.
Kralizec
10-22-2006, 20:20
Under the constitution, Tribesman can't become president of the USA because he's an Irishman. Senator is possible, but unlikely.
But you can do it Tribesman! :cheerleader:
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-22-2006, 20:27
He's Irish? meh, didn't even pay attetion to his profile
I'll make sure I won't vote for him though, I want the Death penatly to stick around,thank you..
Tribesman
10-22-2006, 22:42
I answer your question, I can't help it if you can't put up a good answer to mine,do some Research,Like Red Propose
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: classic
You still havn't given an answer , you have thrown out the usual spiel that is either faulty or just plain bull .
Which leaves just your "it serves justice" .
So what is the basis for that statement , what merit is there in it , what does it mean , what backs it up .
Come on, you have your opinion , what is it based on , what supports it ?
You must have thought about it to have an opinion mustn't you , or is it just empty thought .
Nothing else you have put forward stands up , so explain how the death penalty or the threat of it "serves justice" .
I bet you would wipe out Death Pentaly, and leave innocent people in jail also,with actual killers,k bud,real smart.
Losing the plot are you ?:yes:
No Tribesman -do a little research, the main purposes of punishment is retribution
Do a little reading Red , like read what you quoted from me , notice the different word used :oops:
Not necessarily - removal from society also serves to protect society.
Punishment is only one aspect of putting someone into prison.
Go back to how the individual is removed from society. If its from the medical review process then its not retribution. If its from the criminal justice system its from the punishment phase which has its foundation in retribution for the criminal act.
:
Do a little reading Red , like read what you quoted from me , notice the different word used :oops:
The word you used was done incorrectly Shall I quote it again.
All you have managed so far is "killers deserve to die" ' which is bollox based on some crazy feel good factor .
Life in prison functions the same way as the death pently with one major exception one can partially correct the mistake if someone is innocent. Only partially correct the mistake because the time is still lost.
I wonder now if you are going to resort to your normal ad hominem rebuttal?
Tribesman
10-22-2006, 23:39
The word you used was done incorrectly Shall I quote it again.
Yes please , go ahead :yes:
Here I will save you the effort ......No it isn't Red, the main purpose of incarceration is to remove someone from general society
It says exactly what it says .:idea2:
But since you asked so nicely ......I wonder now if you are going to resort to your normal ad hominem rebuttal?....how can I resist .
Is there a new edition of Redlegs ultimate big book of redefinition of the english language out , the revised revised edition possibly ?:2thumbsup:
Life in prison functions the same way as the death pently with one major exception one can partially correct the mistake if someone is innocent. Only partially correct the mistake because the time is still lost.
Yep , though as the main subject this topic has become is life in prison or the death penalty in the USofA you can also add that under the current set up life in prison is cheaper for the tax payer (just thought I would add that for those fiscal conservatives who want value for money with their justice :laugh4: )
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-23-2006, 02:52
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: classic
You still havn't given an answer , you have thrown out the usual spiel that is either faulty or just plain bull .
Which leaves just your "it serves justice" .
So what is the basis for that statement , what merit is there in it , what does it mean , what backs it up .
Come on, you have your opinion , what is it based on , what supports it ?
You must have thought about it to have an opinion mustn't you , or is it just empty thought .
Nothing else you have put forward stands up , so explain how the death penalty or the threat of it "serves justice" .
Losing the plot are you ?:yes:
Do a little reading Red , like read what you quoted from me , notice the different word used :oops:
Funny, I given you your Answer. Go back and Read,yes,you have to read,good skill to have, and your will find my answer twice, I presume.
Samurai Waki
10-23-2006, 03:15
I guess we can all thank god I'm not the one running the show:laugh4:
Having lived with crime and irresponsbility and hatred growing up I have a very confusing opinion on criminals. While I would certainly like to see this guy, and just about every other prisoner in the US subject to a great purge, I also believe that moral killing of a Criminal is too big of a responsibility for humans to handle effectively. We walk down a very dark corridor in this day and age, and sometimes we have to bury down our true emotions in order to excel human progression, if we all did what we felt like we should do, I daresay that this world would be ravaged, and hopeless, and irrepressively cold. A world, that I would not want to have any part in.
Does this guy deserve to be killed? Yes. Should we kill him? No. His judgement will come, and he will suffer whatever the fates will have him suffer.
Yes please , go ahead :yes:
Here I will save you the effort ......No it isn't Red, the main purpose of incarceration is to remove someone from general society
It says exactly what it says .:idea2:
And hince your still incorrect, nice attempt at twisting your way out of the postion - but once again the initial comment quoted was what I was responding to.
But since you asked so nicely ......I wonder now if you are going to resort to your normal ad hominem rebuttal?....how can I resist .
Is there a new edition of Redlegs ultimate big book of redefinition of the english language out , the revised revised edition possibly ?:2thumbsup:
Typical ad hominem which by its very nature demonstrates that you know that your wrong; except instead of admitting your error you resort to personal attacks.
Its been humorous Tribesy, to bad you always resort to ad hominem comments - it ruins your position each and every time.
Banquo's Ghost
10-23-2006, 12:46
There are threads which convince me that Tribesman and I were separated at birth. So I am reduced to posting trivial links to bollock-nailing Austrians whilst he nails the bollocks to be found in death penalty threads.
Just thought I would lend some feeble support :2thumbsup:
the bollocks to be found in death penalty threads.
Surely you mean the difference of opinion :yes:
hmm kewl smiley
Banquo's Ghost
10-23-2006, 13:01
Surely you mean the difference of opinion :yes:
Of course, but it didn't work quite as well :wink3:
Don Corleone
10-23-2006, 16:57
There are threads which convince me that Tribesman and I were separated at birth. So I am reduced to posting trivial links to bollock-nailing Austrians whilst he nails the bollocks to be found in death penalty threads.
Just thought I would lend some feeble support :2thumbsup:
And here all this time, I was convinced that Tribesman was in reality a celebrity, keeping his identity a secret:
Now
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/tharris00/tribesman.jpg
and in his salad days...
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/tharris00/tribesman2.jpg
The whole Irish thing is just a ruse....
If you don't recognize this celebrity, shame on you! Peek here: Tribesman is really John Lydon, aka Johnny Rotten of the Sex Pistols.
Tribesman
10-23-2006, 19:24
And hince your still incorrect, nice attempt at twisting your way out of the postion - but once again the initial comment quoted was what I was responding to.
So in Reds big book quoted doesn't mean what is quoted , it means something else that isn't quoted , is that a revised revision of the revised edition ?
The Tribes and Red show even if we agree on a subject you can be certain that it will come to a disagreement .
I bet we could even come to a dispute over the colour of a can of flat matt black paint :2thumbsup:
Funny, I given you your Answer. Go back and Read,yes,you have to read,good skill to have, and your will find my answer twice, I presume.
You havn't given an answer at all , all you have done is spew some empty words without any thought at all , they have no merit , no basis , no meaning whatsoever.
An answer requires substance , your position has absolutely no substance .
It appears that you have managed to form your "opinion" without any noticable brain activity , almost like a knee-jerk reaction .
Just thought I would lend some feeble support :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
But Banquo even with both balls nailed to the roof on the subject the jerkers still wouldn't realise , its just a reflex issue for them .
Banquo's Ghost
10-23-2006, 21:09
And here all this time, I was convinced that Tribesman was in reality a celebrity, keeping his identity a secret:
Now
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/tharris00/tribesman.jpg
and in his salad days...
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/tharris00/tribesman2.jpg
The whole Irish thing is just a ruse....
If you don't recognize this celebrity, shame on you! Peek here: Tribesman is really John Lydon, aka Johnny Rotten of the Sex Pistols.
And just to prove my 'separated at birth' argument, here's a picture of the Ghost:
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/aslanngrae/shane.jpg
No clues from me as to who I really am :bounce:
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-23-2006, 22:28
And hince your still incorrect, nice attempt at twisting your way out of the postion - but once again the initial comment quoted was what I was responding to.
So in Reds big book quoted doesn't mean what is quoted , it means something else that isn't quoted , is that a revised revision of the revised edition ?
The Tribes and Red show even if we agree on a subject you can be certain that it will come to a disagreement .
I bet we could even come to a dispute over the colour of a can of flat matt black paint :2thumbsup:
You havn't given an answer at all , all you have done is spew some empty words without any thought at all , they have no merit , no basis , no meaning whatsoever.
An answer requires substance , your position has absolutely no substance .
It appears that you have managed to form your "opinion" without any noticable brain activity , almost like a knee-jerk reaction .
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
But Banquo even with both balls nailed to the roof on the subject the jerkers still wouldn't realise , its just a reflex issue for them .
I did give a answer in two posts. you gave a 2 sentance answer,which is a Most common answer among people like you. When you able to find my Answer, come back and I'll give you a balloon :balloon2: and argue with you some more once you stop saying the same old Bullshit.
Tribesman
10-23-2006, 23:24
I did give a answer in two posts. you gave a 2 sentance answer,which is a Most common answer among people like you.
Oh I see there is a standard answer to the merits of your position , that says a lot about your position doesn't it .
wow and it only took two sentances to say that your knee jerk reaction to capital punishment has nothing to back it up .
kill them kill them all .
why ?
because they killed
so what purpose does killing them serve?
it serves justice
how
because they deserve it
why ?
because they killed
so what purpose does killing them serve ?
justice
how?
You havn't put a lot of thought into this subject have you :no:
When you able to find my Answer, come back and I'll give you a balloon :balloon2: and argue with you some more once you stop saying the same old Bullshit.
Priceless , you couldn't pay for material like that :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
And hince your still incorrect, nice attempt at twisting your way out of the postion - but once again the initial comment quoted was what I was responding to.
So in Reds big book quoted doesn't mean what is quoted , it means something else that isn't quoted , is that a revised revision of the revised edition ?
Again you are incorrect. I see however that you maintain the ad hominem
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-23-2006, 23:53
Oh I see there is a standard answer to the merits of your position , that says a lot about your position doesn't it .
wow and it only took two sentances to say that your knee jerk reaction to capital punishment has nothing to back it up .
kill them kill them all .
why ?
because they killed
so what purpose does killing them serve?
it serves justice
how
because they deserve it
why ?
because they killed
so what purpose does killing them serve ?
justice
how?
You havn't put a lot of thought into this subject have you :no:
Priceless , you couldn't pay for material like that :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Yes I have, Try looking again Bud, seems like you ethier can't read (which it seems) or you to afraid to acually come forth with it, like me to find them?
Hm, I can't pay for them? Are you sure, with your limited Reading skills, you could even find a Balloon in a store :laugh4: :inquisitive: :inquisitive:
Tribesman
10-24-2006, 01:11
Oh well , just to give you the benefit of the doubt , went through the whole topic again , and yes its true , you have come up with nothing of any merit at all regarding justification of the death penalty .
Lots of crap , whole piles of it in fact , but nothing that isn't easily dismissed as badly thought out rubbish with no substance .
Congratulations
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-24-2006, 01:38
lol Ok. Seems you Said the Same old Bullshit over and over, Nothing New. Not One Big Bud. Seems like this argument is over, can't get it past you, well, then,whatever.
AntiochusIII
10-24-2006, 02:05
lol Ok. Seems you Said the Same old Bullshit over and over, Nothing New. Not One Big Bud. Seems like this argument is over, can't get it past you, well, then,whatever.To get past this circular motion of circular positions where people present their circular arguments that go in circles, I'd like to ask you this:
How do you define justice?
Don Corleone
10-24-2006, 02:21
Hint, Warhammer: If you want to argue pro-death penalty... go with utilitarianism....society has a right to defend itself against ever-present threats and this felon, even incarcerated, is an ever-present threat as he will eventually either escape or be paroled.
There are sound logical reasons for being pro death-penalty, I just don't subscribe to them any longer.
Hint, Warhammer: If you want to argue pro-death penalty... go with utilitarianism....society has a right to defend itself against ever-present threats and this felon, even incarcerated, is an ever-present threat as he will eventually either escape or be paroled.
There are sound logical reasons for being pro death-penalty, I just don't subscribe to them any longer.
Personally, I think the death penalty is something that's applied too often and for the wrong reasons (ie: revenge). However, I'd be opposed to its outright ban as there are certain rare circumstances where it can still be necessary.
I also think one can make a justice argument for the death penalty- but to do so, imo, requires the arguer to advocate even more widespread usage of it than we have currently. I prefer a practical argument for its limited usage though.
Tribesman
10-24-2006, 07:59
lol Ok. Seems you Said the Same old Bullshit over and over, Nothing New. Not One Big Bud. Seems like this argument is over, can't get it past you, well, then,whatever.
Pathetic . What happened warman ?
Did you re read the topic and realise that you have not posted anything that hasn't been dealt with .
Have you finally noticed that you have both your testes nailed to the roof .
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-24-2006, 15:09
Hm no, have you Re-Read the Subject and realize you said the same Old BS all the time, and could not put up a good argument? As Far as I am concern, I'm done with this Thread,I said my mind, you want to argue with me more, go to my Iraq thread,some fresh anyhow. had enoguh of aruging with a guy about this who doesn't even re-read the topic (Tribes)
Ser Clegane
10-24-2006, 15:13
It seems that we are beyond discussing the topic of the thread and have instead entered the phase of people just trying to show how stupid those who disagree are.
The end
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.