View Full Version : And here's why women are being raped in Australia
Devastatin Dave
10-26-2006, 06:23
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20646437-2702,00.html
Anyone agree want to disagree with our distinguished "member" of Western society? I wonder how many riots this is going to create throughout the Western World. I'll take a wild guess... 0
Samurai Waki
10-26-2006, 06:26
Thats because people in Western Society don't really listen to crack pots, unlike certain people, who are part of a certain faith, in generally a certain part of the world who take everything for gospel. No Us Westies are a Suspicious lot after getting screwed by our leaders time and again.
Major Robert Dump
10-26-2006, 06:28
Its interesting that he refers to their uncovered flesh as "meat." I've personally never thought of gangraping suggestively dressed young women, but I have to admit I do get an erection when I see the the RibEyes and T-Bones in the meat counter at the local Super Target. who knows what I'd do if there weren't children and cameras around. Men are such....animals
Crazed Rabbit
10-26-2006, 07:23
Dave, didn't you read it? Women are the tools of Satan.
Men are the righteous follows of the Prophet. They are who they are and can't change it; is it too much to ask to have the women learn proper control?
Gee, you guys need to get more multi-cultural.
CR
Duke of Gloucester
10-26-2006, 08:22
The man is a fool. It is encouraging to note the response of other Moslems though. Even he is trying to backtrack on his original pronouncements.
Watchman
10-26-2006, 08:34
Ah, the classic male chauvinist argument. Westerners actually use it too, just without the religious references.
:rtwno:
Bollocks anyway of course, as all the "blame the victim" excuses.
'Sides, I seem to recall the sharia "remove the extremity used in the crime" approach was quite explicit in the case of rape. I wonder what the esteemed Sheik Taj Din al-Hilali would have to say about that and "mercy"...
The imfamous Sidney gangrape, comming to a town near you :laugh4:
everyday's reality, more episodes then 'as the world turns'.
Ah well if they can't control themselves if they see a hot chick, let's tackle this problem at it's root and ban hot chicks. These things need time, we must carefully culturally sensitive explain that this can and must not happen and that it happens anyway is really not their fault. They already have it so tough.
ban hot chicks.
I hereby officially offer shelter for all those hot, slim and D-cupped infidel chicks.
Add another stupid statement to al-Hilali’s long list of stupid statements. Why is he still allowed to spew his hate?
And here's why women are being raped in Australia
You are right, troll. All rapists in Australia are Muslims…
I hereby officially offer shelter for all those hot, slim and D-cupped infidel chicks.
Me too
Add another stupid statement to al-Hilali’s long list of stupid statements. Why is he still allowed to spew his hate?
And here's why women are being raped in Australia
You are right, troll. All rapists in Australia are Muslims…
Well if a high religious figure excuses them in such a way, doesn't help. This man his more influence then the australian authority.
DemonArchangel
10-26-2006, 10:05
Add another stupid statement to al-Hilali’s long list of stupid statements. Why is he still allowed to spew his hate?
Because apparently, he has a following of likeminded idiots.
lancelot
10-26-2006, 10:27
I wonder what this genius has to say about women who are not dressing suggestively etc etc who get raped...how is it their fault I wonder...showing too much cheek-bone? :wall:
Many places ban holocaust denail/hate preaching...cant someone make a law and shut idiots like this up?...please.
DemonArchangel
10-26-2006, 10:53
Many places ban holocaust denail/hate preaching...cant someone make a law and shut idiots like this up?...please.
No. In fact, they shouldn't. Even the places that ban Holocaust denial should unban it. We need to know these kinds of.....what I will call people for convienience's sake, exist in this world.
Well if a high religious figure excuses them in such a way, doesn't help. Quite right, which is all the more reason for him to be sacked. It helped when Abu “Hook” Hamza was sacked from London’s Finsbury Park Mosque. This case is similar. That baboon is abusing his authority.
I think that to most people, the prayer is more important than the sermon. People are there to pray because it is a mosque, not because of Hilaly. But there is no doubt he has a following of fools who find his statements very convenient.
Sack him.
The Muslim has a point. He's a bit too extreme about it, but nonetheless there is truth to his point.
What he says is true that women who do not dress respectably, are encouraging themselves to be sexually assaulted. I'm not saying that it should happen, but it definitely will happen a lot of the time due to the temptation the women cause in psychopaths' minds by dressing like prostitutes. Of course it should never happen and no one deserves that. Although, that they didn't deserve it won't make things much better after the fact. If they didn't dress like prostitutes in the first place, perhaps in many cases they might have been able to entirely avoid the horrible situation. Hence putting aside offense at the Muslim's comments, and women learning to dress more respectably because of them instead of getting caught up in being offended, then the world would be a much better place with less sexual assault.
Duke of Gloucester
10-26-2006, 12:09
No Nav, he does not have a point at all. Let us set aside the fact that most rapes are commited by people who know their victims and just talk about rapes by strangers - these "psychopaths" you refer to. If women follow your and his advice then they would need to cover up more and more. It would not be a case of thigh and cleavage inciting these people, it would become neck and ankle, so they need to be covered, then the face. Much better to make sure young men learn that however women dress they are not consenting to anything that they say "no" to. Rape is not caused by men's desires becoming inflamed - this happens to all men, but we are not all rapists. Rape happens when a man has no respect for a woman and treats her as less than human. Making a distinction between those who dress nicely and those who expose their flesh simply makes the lack of respect more likely. It encourages young men to think "These women are nice girls like my sisters and mother, these others are whores and get what is coming to them". You see - lack of respect.
He actually goes further and says that the woman who was gang raped is to blame rather than the men who did it, which is nauseating.
Well if they don't respect sexy women it is of course more likely to happen when a woman dresses sexy, but we shouldn't think like that. They just need to understand that australie is not a muslim country and that they shouldn't aspire to change that. Problem is they know they can with so many usefull idiots at important places.
doc_bean
10-26-2006, 12:31
He actually goes further and says that the woman who was gang raped is to blame rather than the men who did it, which is nauseating.
Not to speak in his defense or to be muslim bashing, BUT, isn't this view pretty much law in several Islamic countries ? (Iran, Pakistan,...) I do think this line of thought is horribly wrong, but this isn't just the problem of one lunatic, there are a whole lot of people trapped in the same 'paradigm'. Not that it's (all) Islam that's to blame, this line of thought was (is?) pretty common in the western world too...
But, yeah, ban him.
Why is he still allowed to spew his hate?
Freedom of speech? Doesn't stop him being an idiot and mocked though.
I mean seriously. What a fool.
He's an idiot and should be simply sacked from his job and ignored. Deporting him draws attention and effectively makes a martyr of him.
The point about scantily clad women encouraging rape is true though. In the UK, women dress provocatively, i.e when going out clubbing. This is undeniable. The whole idea is to look good and draw attention to themselves, though that can be the wrong kind of attention especially if one of them is staggering home/into an illegal taxi drunk. In such case the drunkenness is probably the biggest factor, but the highly revealing clothing is another major factor. This is a big problem.
The problem with this cleric in question is that his views on the matter are rather extreme and blinkered.
"If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred."
With regard to muslim men, some of which are possibly accustomed to seeing women at all unless covered from head to foot, this may be quite 'shocking' to say the least. The idea that a woman in a muslim country will be raped unless covered, portrays muslims in a bad light. The cleric, as is usual with these types, ony does a disservice to his own religion/culture and nothing more.
Devastatin Dave
10-26-2006, 14:15
And here's why women are being raped in Australia
You are right, troll. All rapists in Australia are Muslims…
Hey, don't shoot, or shall i say, behead the messenger. Its his statement, so don't get pissed at me that this dude has a 6th century mindset of a cravan raiding lunatic. HE was the one that gave the reason as to why women are being raped by his flock. Thanks for giving us a great of example of how the "moderates" are doing such a good job standing up against the "extremists". :2thumbsup:
Kralizec
10-26-2006, 14:23
What he says is true that women who do not dress respectably, are encouraging themselves to be sexually assaulted. I'm not saying that it should happen, but it definitely will happen a lot of the time due to the temptation the women cause in psychopaths' minds by dressing like prostitutes. Of course it should never happen and no one deserves that. Although, that they didn't deserve it won't make things much better after the fact. If they didn't dress like prostitutes in the first place, perhaps in many cases they might have been able to entirely avoid the horrible situation. Hence putting aside offense at the Muslim's comments, and women learning to dress more respectably because of them instead of getting caught up in being offended, then the world would be a much better place with less sexual assault.
It's true that some women could have avoided being raped, had they worn clothes that don't reveal any skin.
It's also true that these women could certainly have avoided being raped by staying in their appartment the rest of their lives (he actually makes this point!)
Of course women put themselves at risk if they take a lonely walk, half naked through crime infested neighbourhouds. But if women can't walk without the Hijaab in daily hours without risking their safety, something is wrong.
Not to speak in his defense or to be muslim bashing, BUT, isn't this view pretty much law in several Islamic countries ? (Iran, Pakistan,...) I do think this line of thought is horribly wrong, but this isn't just the problem of one lunatic, there are a whole lot of people trapped in the same 'paradigm'. Not that it's (all) Islam that's to blame, this line of thought was (is?) pretty common in the western world too...
The Australian mufti was immediately rebuked by a ton of muslims. I don't think there are that many muslims who follow his line of reasoning, but having such a person in a position of leadership is asking for trouble. I say sack him.
Thanks for giving us a great of example of how the "moderates" are doing such a good job standing up against the "extremists". :2thumbsup:
According to your own article, Muslims in Australia are coming out of the woodwork to denounce this dude's statement. And I fail to see how Dairush (correctly) identifying your initial post as a troll demonstrates that moderates can't or won't oppose the nutjob in the article.
Do moderate Muslims need to believe you aren't a troll to support freedom? Let's get our criteria straight, here ...
This idiot is obviously FOB from fundi-stan. If he only knew howmany times I see Muslim girls here, 2nd generation Canadians (if that). Dressing like any other girl. Tight fitting cloths and not even a head scarf.
According to your own article, Muslims in Australia are coming out of the woodwork to denounce this dude's statement.
Some you mean, end that some being female muslim leaders, doubt they are a very big group. Maybe it's just the kremlinwatcher in me.
Some you mean, end that some being female muslim leaders, doubt they are a very big group. Maybe it's just the kremlinwatcher in me.
Hmmmm... naked female muslim leaders. Sounds kinky... :whip:
Tribesman
10-26-2006, 14:43
Ah well if they can't control themselves if they see a hot chick, let's tackle this problem at it's root and ban hot chicks. These things need time, we must carefully culturally sensitive explain that this can and must not happen and that it happens anyway is really not their fault. They already have it so tough.
Well if they don't respect sexy women it is of course more likely to happen when a woman dresses sexy, but we shouldn't think like that. They just need to understand that australie is not a muslim country and that they shouldn't aspire to change that. Problem is they know they can with so many usefull idiots at important places.
Is this he same really caring person who described a gang-rape and murder victim as a dumb MTV loving American bitch who wanted a bit of gang-bang action but got more than she was expecting ?
Or was that someone else using that name?
Right , first off lets be clear , this preacher is talking bollox , just like a Christian preacher who would describe line dancing as being sexually provocative is talking bollox .
But , since during rape trials in the "civilised" western world the prosecution often makes a big issue out of what the victim was wearing at the time , putting it for consideration to a western judge and jury that the victims attire may be a mitigating factor for the actions of the sick **** of a rapist then where is your outrage oh outraged ones ?
I wonder how many riots this is going to create throughout the Western World. I'll take a wild guess... 0
Now then Dave , how many riots did it cause in Japan when there was a nasty child rape committed , and then a figure of authority over the perpetrator of the crime moaned about the locals making a big deal over nothing ?
Any thoughts about the defendants mitigating factors put forward for the recent gang rape incident in the Phillipines ?
Hmmmm... naked female muslim leaders. Sounds kinky... :whip:
New greet, salami hereitcomes ~;)
Devastatin Dave
10-26-2006, 15:11
Do moderate Muslims need to believe you aren't a troll to support freedom?
Nope, I don't require anyone to follow my beliefs, too bad I can't say the same about, well, others.:beam:
Just another idiot. It really is that easy. No explanation needed.
Samurai Waki
10-26-2006, 16:20
It just supports the fact that all rapists, murderers, and thieves are inheirantly cowards. And if someone lives like a Coward, they should also die a coward's death.
Prince of the Poodles
10-26-2006, 16:52
Just another idiot. It really is that easy. No explanation needed.
:yes:
Major Robert Dump
10-26-2006, 17:19
That guy from the other thread who was caught having sex with the dog should have used this defense.....well it had just had a trim, so its hair was short and its supple skin was showing, and it was wagging its tail all sexy like, it was asking for it
Its interesting that he refers to their uncovered flesh as "meat." I've personally never thought of gangraping suggestively dressed young women, but I have to admit I do get an erection when I see the the RibEyes and T-Bones in the meat counter at the local Super Target. who knows what I'd do if there weren't children and cameras around. Men are such....animals
Uncovered flesh is meat. Some languages don't even distinguish between the two words.
Duke of Gloucester
10-26-2006, 17:37
Uncovered flesh is meat. Some languages don't even distinguish between the two words.
But English, which you and he both speak does distinguish between them, and because it does, referring to flesh as meat treats with disrespect the person whose flesh we are referring to.
Don Corleone
10-26-2006, 17:38
Men who think there's an excuse for raping women will always find one. While it's easy to pile onto Australia's resident mufti, there's plenty of Christian, Jewish and secular leaders that make similar arguments, though typically couched in more politcally correct language to be sure.
At the end of the day, rape isn't about sex. It's an act of power (more accurately, abuse of power) and your typical rapist is more interested in 'getting his way for once' then sexual gratification.
An interesting study.... they interview just about every rapist in jail as to why they did it, when they did it, how they chose their victim, etcetera. The rapist can name details, describe how they were feeling, how they planned the act out, why they made the specific choices they did (such as why in a bush versus dragging the victim into the alley). The one thing the rapist tends to have a difficult time describing? The physical description of the victim herself.
There's a fairly large minority of rapists that are impotent and relatively asexual. They use objects, such as wine bottles and broom handles as the object of phallic penetration. Before people start talking about how provocative dress or clubhopping behavior causes rapes, I'd like somebody to explain to me what 80 year old women, at home in their own house wearing housecoats did to bring about their rape and how they were culpable for it.
Thanks for those horrific images, Don. I'm glad I read that after lunch.
In other news, it seems the Mufti realized he stepped in it:
Muslim leader apologizes for rape comments
SYDNEY, Oct. 26 (UPI) -- An Australian Muslim leader has apologized for causing offense with a sermon blaming immodestly dressed women for sexual assaults.
Sheik Taj Aldin Alhilali apologized after The Australian detailed his comments, which compared women who do not wear Muslim headdresses to "uncovered meat" that attracts hungry animals, the Sydney Morning Herald reported Thursday.
"I unreservedly apologise to any woman who is offended by my comments," Alhilali said.
"I had only intended to protect women's honor, something lost in The Australian presentation of my talk."
Alhilali's earlier comments seemed to place blame for sexual attacks on the victims, The Australian reported.
"If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?
"The uncovered meat is the problem."
Prime Minister John Howard described the comments as "appalling and reprehensible."
"The idea that women are to blame for rapes is preposterous."
Some you mean, and that some being female muslim leaders, doubt they are a very big group. Maybe it's just the kremlinwatcher in me.
Doesn't look (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6086374.stm)as though it's just fringe Muslims and women who are upset:
The leader of Australia's largest Islamic organisation has threatened to ban the cleric from teaching at Lakemba Mosque in Western Sydney.
Tom Zreika, president of the Lebanese Muslim Association, which owns the mosque, said he condemned Sheikh Hilali's words.
Thats because people in Western Society don't really listen to crack pots, unlike certain people, who are part of a certain faith, in generally a certain part of the world who take everything for gospel.
C'mon man. Our crazy conservative brethern would be rioting in the streets if they weren't so downtrodden by the liberal elite. At least they can muster up the will to post all the news thats fit to outrage.
Vladimir
10-26-2006, 20:30
Thanks for those horrific images, Don. I'm glad I read that after lunch.
In other news, it seems the Mufti realized he stepped in it:
Muslim leader apologizes for rape comments
"If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?
"
Hmmm, kill the cats? :idea2:
rory_20_uk
10-26-2006, 20:53
Alleluya! Moderate Muslims have said he's gone to far - that's what the world needs to hear - it is an "us and them", but the majority of Muslims are in the same camp we are.
Speaking out against a loud mouthed biggot who is about 500 years out of date does not denigrate a religion. If anything it upholds it.
~:smoking:
I saw this in the paper today and thought, sure he has a point about whether it is encouraged by wearing suggestive clothing, but then doesn't that mean that by taking your car out of your garage it is YOUR fault for it getting stolen, or that by having a nice garden your are encouraging people to ruin it, or by walking down the street you are encouring people to mug you.
He obviously hasn't thought of it that way because if he did then he would see how utterly stupid his statement is.
Wow, the muslim community taking a stand against one of its members! Now if only they had enough guts to do it too terrorists also...
CountArach
10-28-2006, 08:38
It is interesting that he blamed women for being raped by men, yet he never said that men who are raped by women (A lot more common than it sounds) are to blame for being raped. Chauvanistic indeed...
It is good that he has apologised, but I believe that his excuse was weak. Wanting to defend their honour... pah!
Wow, the muslim community taking a stand against one of its members! Now if only they had enough guts to do it too terrorists also...
most of the western world doesnt have the guts to stand up to terrorists, its even more difficult for the mislum community to do so.
:2thumbsup:
Papewaio
10-30-2006, 03:51
President of the Lebanese Muslim Association (LMA) Tom Zreika said a meeting with the cleric was scheduled this afternoon at Lakemba Mosque, where Sheik Hilaly preaches.
The LMA will tonight release the details of its plan to address the crisis caused by a sermon given by Sheik Hilaly which suggested that immodestly dressed women invite sexual assault, Mr Zreika said.
"I'm hoping something will come out of this. I need to close it off. It's just dragging on too long... something's happened - let's just leave it at that," he said.
Mr Zreika would not say whether there was a standoff between the sheik and the LMA about the cleric stepping down, but confirmed that Sheik Hilaly's position would be one subject of today's meeting.
A statement from the sheik on whether he would step down or hold on to his position as Australia's mufti is expected tonight.
Prime Minister John Howard said this morning he was "very uncomfortable" with the senior cleric representing Islamic Australia abroad and that Sheik Hilaly had tarnished the Muslim community's image.
Queensland Liberal MP Warren Entsch said his immediate reaction was to think "to hell with him" and called for the sheik's permanent residency status to be revoked.
Dr Jamal Rifi, who considers himself a friend of the cleric, has written an open letter to Sheik Hilaly calling for him to step down as mufti of Australia for the good of the greater Australian Muslim community.
"He definitely has put us in a very difficult situation, a very unenviable position, but as a community we have to rise up and reach the challenges that we are facing right now," Dr Rifi said today on ABC radio.
He said the sheik had underestimated the impact of his statement on the Muslim community.
"He described (it) as a storm in a cup, while I and many of my community see it as a category five cyclone," he said.
Keyser Trad, a friend of Sheik Hilaly and spokesman for the Lebanese Muslim Association, said he did not believe the cleric would stand aside following a discussion this morning.
"When I spoke to him I encouraged him not to heed any of those calls for resignation," Mr Trad said.
Sheik Hilaly was "very disappointed" after his friend Dr Rifi wrote to the cleric asking him to step down, Mr Trad said.
"With friends like that, who needs enemies," he said.
"Most people in the community, especially those who heard his original, low-key talk, understand the message was only about modesty and abstinence and they can feel this is a witch hunt.
"A number of people, politicians and other lobby groups are settling some old scores.
"Again, this is pandering to the lynch mob rather than exercising natural justice."
Opposition Leader Kim Beazley and deputy Labor leader Jenny Macklin said the sheik's comments were unacceptable and he should step down from his position.
Ms Macklin also said Attorney-General Philip Ruddock should actively investigate whether Sheik Hilaly had broken any laws with his comments.
This is fairly big news her, first article on most tv, radio and web media sites
www.smh.com.au
www.news.com.au
From the outset there has been a very strong reaction against him, and a lot of those are muslim who are angry with what he has said.
He has also is pro Iraqi militants
SHEIK Taj al-Din al-Hilaly has praised militant jihadists in Iraq and Afghanistan, calling them men of the highest order for fighting against coalition forces - which include Australian soldiers - to "liberate" their homelands.
In an interview on Arabic radio two weeks ago, the imam based at Sydney's Lakemba mosque said he was opposed to terror attacks in Madrid, London and New York but strongly endorsed fighters in the Palestinian territories, Iraq and Afghanistan.
In the interview, Sheik Hilaly pays tribute to Sayyid Qutb, the ideologue of the Muslim Brotherhood and intellectual mentor of Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda.
"Jihad of the liberator of Palestine, that's the greatest and cleanest and highest ... jihad which lifts our heads (in pride) in south Lebanon," Sheik Hilaly says in the October 17 interview.
He tells broadcaster Abrahim Zoabi that he endorses jihad for liberation. "We are talking about ... jihad of liberating our land, jihad of Muslim Afghanis in their land - that's jihad.
"Jihad of Iraqi Muslims is jihad, but not when Sunnis and Shias are killing each other; that's not jihad."
The last bit in particular points out... well if they aren't attacking each other they are attacking the coalition. He is essentially saying that the best thing that the militants can do is attack Australian troops... not really a great man is he. I really hope he gets done for incitement to violence and has his residency stripped. He is of the say ilk as the Bali bombers and the 911 attacks, same sect and idealology.
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