View Full Version : Schoolgirl arrested for refusing to study with non-English pupils
King Ragnar
10-29-2006, 15:52
A teenage schoolgirl was arrested by police for racism after refusing to sit with a group of Asian students because some of them did not speak English.
Codie Stott's family claim she was forced to spend three-and-a-half hours in a police cell after she was reported by her teachers.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23370623-details/Schoolgirl+arrested+for+refusing+to+study+with+non-English+pupils/article.do
This just makes me laugh alot.
Duke of Gloucester
10-29-2006, 16:03
Wanting to speak English in England is Racist!!!!!
Not what the story was about.
Schoolgirl arrested for refusing to study with non-English pupils
Not what the story was about either.
A teenage schoolgirl was arrested by police for racism after refusing to sit with a group of Asian students because some of them did not speak English.
Misleading. Read the article closely and you find this:
School insiders acknowledge that at least three of the students Codie refused to sit with had recently arrived in this country and spoke little English.
But they say her comments afterwards raised further concerns, for example allegedly referring to the students as "blacks" - something she denied yesterday.
so that is the issue
However:
Last night Robert Whelan, deputy director of the Civitas think-tank, said: "It's obviously common sense that pupils who don't speak English cause problems for other pupils and for teachers."
"I'm sure this sort of thing happens all the time, but it's a sad reflection on the school if they can't deal with it without involving the police."
"A lot of these arrests don't result in prosecutions - they aim is to frighten us into self-censorship until we watch everything we say."
In almost all schools, incidents like this would be dealt with without involving the police. Arresting the girl was a ridiculous over-reaction.
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-29-2006, 16:16
well, They should not have did that. Why have 1 kid who speaks english be stuck in a group with kids who can't speak hardly any english? Makes no sense. It's Like Sticking a Ant in a Bee's Hive,makes no sense.Teach the Kids English first then.
King Ragnar
10-29-2006, 16:20
they shouldnt be allowed in a english school if they cannot speak english at all.
Mithrandir
10-29-2006, 16:37
they shouldnt be allowed in a english school if they cannot speak english at all.
School insiders acknowledge that at least three of the students Codie refused to sit with had recently arrived in this country and spoke little English.
~:rolleyes:
And here I was under the impression students are here to learn.
Silly me.
they shouldnt be allowed in a english school if they cannot speak english at all.
where esle are they going to go - they deserve to learn like any other person
The title is misleading, :no:
As far as i can tell the school failed to handle the situation properly, both in making the girl sit next to the non-enlgish speakers, and then by calling the police
:2thumbsup:
Mithrandir
10-29-2006, 17:33
Title edited (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=59362).
Crazed Rabbit
10-29-2006, 18:12
A stupid overreaction by the school.
First, to put her in a group that speaks a different language, then putting her in detention all day for what appears to be a very valid complaint, then actually calling the police and having her thrown in a cell for complaining to the teacher about it. And according to the article, they had the police throw her in the cell a week after the incident.
And why? The school claims she referred to the other students as 'blacks'. Is that a crime in England? Enough to get thrown into jail a week after she alledgedly said that? Don't the police have better things to do, like watching scooter thieves ride away and threatening to arrest owners of lawn gnomes?
And what the heck is a "section five racial public order offence"? I guess its 'Politically Correct Big Brother is Watching You'.
Crazed Rabbit
Major Robert Dump
10-29-2006, 18:21
Maybe she pulled a shank and tried to stab someone.
Maybe she pulled a shank and tried to stab someone.
OH SNAP :smash:
CrossLOPER
10-29-2006, 18:29
The system at it's best. The same thing happened in the US a year or two back. A SIX YEAR OLD GIRL was arrested for being "belligerent" and not wanting to comply with teachers' requests to calm down. This is what happens when the system is built around situations where teachers are too afraid to discipline a child in fear of getting sued by parents.
Is it seriously illegal to be racist in the UK? If so, it could really ruin my "CrossLOPER International Racism Tour Spring 2007". I've been really looking forward to it.
I"CrossLOPER International Racism Tour Spring 2007". I've been really looking forward to it.
Where can i get tickets? :2thumbsup:
CrossLOPER
10-29-2006, 18:43
Where can i get tickets? :2thumbsup:
Sorry, sold out. You can tag along in Paris, but after that, you're on your own.
Duke Malcolm
10-29-2006, 19:42
Is it seriously illegal to be racist in the UK? If so, it could really ruin my "CrossLOPER International Racism Tour Spring 2007". I've been really looking forward to it.
No, though it is quite severly frowned upon. My school keeps a "Racist Book", of all native (minorities are mostly overlooked except in severe and obvious cases) pupils who seem to have racist tendencies.
I suspect this girl did something more than what she claims. As is always the case... "din't do nuffin" "It wisnae me" et al... For refusing to study with them, she might be in breach of some racial discrimination law...
CrossLOPER
10-29-2006, 20:19
Double post, oops.
CrossLOPER
10-29-2006, 20:20
No, though it is quite severly frowned upon. My school keeps a "Racist Book", of all native (minorities are mostly overlooked except in severe and obvious cases) pupils who seem to have racist tendencies.
What about non-native racists? Those exist too.
I suspect this girl did something more than what she claims. As is always the case... "din't do nuffin" "It wisnae me" et al... For refusing to study with them, she might be in breach of some racial discrimination law...
???
So there is or isn't a law? I'm not going to argue about a law that's already in place, but I don't believe that refusing to do a school project is exactly as damaging to society as, let's say, refusing service to a person because you don't like their race or ethnicity.
What about non-native racists? Those exist too.
I suspect the rules would apply to non-native racists aswell
[Quote]
So there is or isn't a law? I'm not going to argue about a law that's already in place, but I don't believe that refusing to do a school project is not exactly as damaging to society as, let's say, refusing service to a person because you don't like their race or ethnicity.
It sounds like she did more than refuse to do a school project - ie. quite severe racial language etc.
CrossLOPER
10-29-2006, 20:29
It sounds like she did more than refuse to do a school project - ie. quite severe racial language etc.
Surely the school can handle some foul language without calling the police.
Hmm. Back to square one...
As far as i can tell the school failed to handle the situation properly, both in making the girl sit next to the non-enlgish speakers, and then by calling the police
:2thumbsup:
Duke Malcolm
10-29-2006, 21:00
What about non-native racists? Those exist too.
As I said, minorities are overlooked unless it is an obvious case. I suspect this is to do with teachers trying to help them "fit in".
So there is or isn't a law? I'm not going to argue about a law that's already in place, but I don't believe that refusing to do a school project is exactly as damaging to society as, let's say, refusing service to a person because you don't like their race or ethnicity.
No
From what the girl says, it is purely because of the language issue, though I doubt a teacher would react as was described. I suspect the girl said something more, ah, racist. In this case, both of your examples may be interpreted as one in this case, depending on what actually happened. The girl may be refusing to do something with them because of their race.
If that makes sense...
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
10-29-2006, 21:03
[quote=CrossLOPER]What about non-native racists? Those exist too.
I suspect the rules would apply to non-native racists aswell
It sounds like she did more than refuse to do a school project - ie. quite severe racial language etc.
She called them "blacks" crude and inaccurate, hardly racist.
Children without a good grasp of English should NOT be in mainstream education until they can communicate properly. If they are immigrants then the government should provide that tuition.
She probably said more than that, i doubt even that particular (-ly bad) teacher would call the police for just that, probably that summed up the nature of the racist language
--> mainstream education does provide tuition of english, non-english speakers at my school have seperate after school stuff to teach them, english speech - this should be the same at all english state schools (i don't know if this is the case) --> it would cost the government huge amounts of money to set up specialist tuition schools when it can use existing facilities anyay.
:2thumbsup:
lancelot
10-29-2006, 22:00
Well this is certainly funny...Even if the girl did use the term 'blacks' yadda yadda yadda, is it a now a crime to not want to sit next to/learn with certain people if you dont want to?
Im a reasonably affluent white male (and student) and I can tell you I would probably feel very uncomfortable if placed with a group of black/asian/whatever students who for the sake of simplicity I shall term into 'urban music' or whatever the hell you call it these days.
So am I now a racist? Am I a hatemonger? I hardly think so.
Im a reasonably affluent white male (and student) and I can tell you I would probably feel very uncomfortable if placed with a group of black/asian/whatever students who for the sake of simplicity I shall term into 'urban music' or whatever the hell you call it these days.
I'm from a very multi-cultural area, and am used to integrating entirely with other ethnic groups (especially at school) and i have no problems, however i can understand why others might be, the problem with the incident is that it sounded like the girl then racially abused those she was told to sit next to as opposed to asking her teachers nicely etc.
So am I now a racist? Am I a hatemonger?
No your not :2thumbsup:
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-29-2006, 23:00
~:rolleyes:
And here I was under the impression students are here to learn.
Silly me.
Erm, I presume so also. But I think, stick them in a school that they can learn english. I won't like it if a Bunch of Spanish Kids came into my Onlnie class,not knowing how to speak a cent of english. make them Learn in a school BEFORE they come to the US or England, or at least before you send them to a English-Speaking School :idea2:
Sasaki Kojiro
10-29-2006, 23:20
https://img128.imageshack.us/img128/6800/emotwtcae8.gif
Maybe if she'd said "I don't want to work with you ******** n******** because you can't ******* be bothered to speak english" to their face she should get detention. But this is just wacky.
Heh, someone somewhere screwed up badly here.
It's really funny. Of course, were she intelligent, she'd have let her group-mates lead the presentation...
Tribesman
10-29-2006, 23:33
What's the betting that this chav just threw a hissy fit because she couldn't sit with her mates as she was absent when they were split into study groups .:yes:
Her poor old mother got a bit upset , so after stewing for a while she got the bright idea to ring the Daily Mail .:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
rory_20_uk
10-30-2006, 00:29
OK. I'm called "white", or "Caucasian"
How is this not crude and inaccurate? My skin isn't white, and I've never been to the Caucuses.
So, yes they might not be black in terms of the colour palette. What then? African? Afro-Caribbean (you try calling one that - Caribbeans hate Africans). They might be English.
A friend of mine was trying to describe which of her friends to me, who'd I'd only met once. We went through height, job, where it was in the party etc etc. And she was shocked when I asked was she the black friend. All the others were white, so I immediately knew who she was. I guess this common sense was racist.
Discriminating against those that can't speak English?? The Guardian will have you alongside the Nazis and the BNP for that act of flagrant bias. We're all the same damnit!!!
~:smoking:
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-30-2006, 00:45
Erm No
They Need to Learn. having say 20 English speaking kids in one class, and having 10 kids who can only speak a few words in the same class to makes no sense. How can they learn then?
CrossLOPER
10-30-2006, 01:09
As I said, minorities are overlooked unless it is an obvious case. I suspect this is to do with teachers trying to help them "fit in".
That's horrifying.
What's the betting that this chav just threw a hissy fit because she couldn't sit with her mates as she was absent when they were split into study groups .
There goes that word again.
They Need to Learn (English).
I actually agree with you here.
I am from Russia. When I went to Germany, I studied and learned German. When I came to the US, I learned English. When you come to a foreign land, I believe you should at least be welcomed, but I do not believe that the nation should bend to you.
Tribesman
10-30-2006, 02:30
They Need to Learn. having say 20 English speaking kids in one class, and having 10 kids who can only speak a few words in the same class to makes no sense. How can they learn then?
They learn very well , it even works out very advantageous for the English speaking kids .:yes:
Forget all the knee-jerk" bloody foriegners coming over here" rubbish , and actually think about it .
My kids are getting a far better education purely due to the number of non-english(or Gaelic) speakers in their classes .:2thumbsup:
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-30-2006, 02:48
That's horrifying.
There goes that word again.
I actually agree with you here.
I am from Russia. When I went to Germany, I studied and learned German. When I came to the US, I learned English. When you come to a foreign land, I believe you should at least be welcomed, but I do not believe that the nation should bend to you.
Yes, if say, I wanted to move to Poland? you think I won't learn Polish? Yea I will sit down, takes classes.
Tribes, em no. First off, you need to learn English when you go to the US/U.K. I don't want my kids to be sitting here, having to have a translator be butting into class,because she has to translate every word. Plus, It cuts down the on racists kids, and if my kids want/need to learn something, they can go take classes.,:beam: :beam:
Papewaio
10-30-2006, 03:04
Here is an interesting demographic:
Fewer than two per cent of pupils at Harrop Fold come from an ethnic minority.
It had the worst GCSE results in the entire Salford LEA last year with just 15 per cent of pupils achieving five good passes including English and maths, a third of the national average.
So it has less ethnic kids then normal and performs last in the GCSE in the area... not saying much for the wattage of the locals is it.
Now as a kid you don't normally get to choose which country your parents move to. In Australia the kids will if they have to ESL (English as a Second Language) while doing other units at the level they can cope with. They are not excluded from the rest of the kids. It means that they get to intergrate faster and learn more about the locals... one of the advantages of going to a public (government) school over a private (religious) one.
Now a pupil who was absent from class the previous day should not get to pick and choose who they sit with. To refuse to interact with them is bad enough to leave the class and make racist comments she should have been suspended from school (detention alone for leaving the classroom without the teachers permission). If she made any violent comments towards the teachers and/or the students then police could be normally called in. It would be over the top within a normal school to call in police however given the following:
A complaint was made to a police officer based full-time at the school kind of hints that this isn't a normal happy go-lucky school environment when you have police based there full time (again probably the same high wattage locals).
Non PC version of events: Girl stayed home, took in bogus note that she was ill from her model lifestyle mum, came into school found out that she couldn't just hang out with her friends in class, was exposed to a language other then english and probably science concepts beyond her understanding in english, throws a hissy fit with the teacher, storms out of the class, is found by teacher, swears to the heavens about having to sit by black *&^(%^ and then is marched off to detention for bad behavour. I'm sure she is going to be a model citizen and key contributor to the world at large. Of course if welfare didn't exist she would be working the streets or living under a bridge and die at the glorious age of twenty three.
Evolution, sometimes throws in a throwback.
InsaneApache
10-30-2006, 06:20
Salford eh? That explains it. :laugh4:
Crazed Rabbit
10-30-2006, 08:39
What's the betting that this chav just threw a hissy fit because she couldn't sit with her mates as she was absent when they were split into study groups .:yes:
Her poor old mother got a bit upset , so after stewing for a while she got the bright idea to ring the Daily Mail .:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Do they normally throw youths in jail for hissy fits a week after the fact?
It sounds like she did more than refuse to do a school project - ie. quite severe racial language etc.
According to the article, the worst she said is 'blacks'.
Non PC version of events: Girl stayed home, took in bogus note that she was ill from her model lifestyle mum, came into school found out that she couldn't just hang out with her friends in class, was exposed to a language other then english and probably science concepts beyond her understanding in english, throws a hissy fit with the teacher, storms out of the class, is found by teacher, swears to the heavens about having to sit by black *&^(%^ and then is marched off to detention for bad behavour. I'm sure she is going to be a model citizen and key contributor to the world at large. Of course if welfare didn't exist she would be working the streets or living under a bridge and die at the glorious age of twenty three.
You're reading an awful lot into it without much supporting information.
CR
D
According to the article, the worst she said is 'blacks'.
The article is very moderate in it's decription of the abuse, however i think the word "blacks" is meant to represent more wide ranging racial language etc. (the article can hardly quote her exactly)
:2thumbsup:
This is insane. Locking a kid up becuase they start yelling, come on. The teachers should understand when you put 1 student in a group with 5 others who can't communicate with her, there's going to be serious problems. Also I think the teachers trying some CYA moves with the "blacks" comment, becuase well the other students were asian.
In that same district another kid 10 was prosecuted for saying some bad words also. I didn't even know England had laws on the books that infringe uppon freedom of speech.
As for black being racist, come on, if I'm white, your black. Racism has to work both ways.
Tribesman
10-30-2006, 10:04
Tribes, em no. First off, you need to learn English when you go to the US/U.K. I don't want my kids to be sitting here, having to have a translator be butting into class,because she has to translate every word. Plus, It cuts down the on racists kids, and if my kids want/need to learn something, they can go take classes
Did you actually think about what I wrote when you quoted it ?
Do they normally throw youths in jail for hissy fits a week after the fact?
did she get thrown in jail ? no
Is a week a normal length of time for a police report on alledged verbal racist abuse to be started and processed ? probably
So what are you trying to say Rabbit ?
It seems like nothing , is it nothing ?
If so why bother saying it :yes:
So it has less ethnic kids then normal and performs last in the GCSE in the area... not saying much for the wattage of the locals is it.
Hey behave Pape , I lived in that area for a while , there are some very nice people there .
Then again , I suppose I would be classed as one of those foriegners :yes:
InsaneApache
10-30-2006, 10:22
You lived in Salford Tribes? :inquisitive: That explains it! :laugh4:
Seriously though, I know Salford very well (being born on the right side of the river Irwell) and it isn't a place that conjures up a feeling of restfulness and wellbeing. I read this story a week or so back and IIRC the girl said a little bit more than just calling her schoolmates black. In fact her mother was a bit more forthcoming about her views than was wise IMO.
Having said that, (the girl only seemed to be echoing her mothers views, now there's a surprise), the school should have dealt with it internally......perhaps they should bring back the cane? :yes:
Tribesman
10-30-2006, 13:28
You lived in Salford Tribes? That explains it!
Eccles IA , it was full of us nasty foriegners back then:yes:
I read this story a week or so back and IIRC the girl said a little bit more than just calling her schoolmates black. In fact her mother was a bit more forthcoming about her views than was wise IMO.
Noooooooooo....you don't say .
You mean there is more than the Daiy Mails version of this "poor girls" story , apart from the one Duke or the Vanguaurd News Network are putting out (which just happens to be the Mails story with the usual white supremacist bullshit comentary added on):laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Damn , and there was me thinking that this was a real issue and a damn good story to boot:oops:
As for black being racist, come on, if I'm white, your black. Racism has to work both ways.
Waaayhaaay , now then , there was a bloke on this forum the otherday who made a nice post , strangely enough he he had a colour in his forum name , he made acomment about racism .
A nice down to earth complete and all encompasing comment .
I wonder what it was ?
Sooooo Tex , with your "works both ways" idea .
Does nasty shite from one side justify nasty shite from the other side , or is nasty shite just nasty shite no matter where it comes from ?:inquisitive:
:yes: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :oops: :inquisitive:
Short and sweet, I like.
Anyway, strange that you can now be arrested for having an opinion, and caring about the quality of your education. She doesn't want to work with people that can't speak english, how very ebil of her.
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-30-2006, 15:05
Did you actually think about what I wrote when you quoted it ?
Um Yes,Re-read.
I makes no sense to stick her in a group of non-english speaking kids. How the Heck do you even get across by calling it a "study group" when she be doing the work by herself anyhow.Though again,just forgot what it was about, have to re-read the article.
CrossLOPER
10-30-2006, 15:09
UThough again,just forgot what it was about, have to re-read the article.
Wow. Just. Wow.
Wow. Just. Wow.
You found that candybar you lost 2 years ago and it's still edable?
Tribesman
10-30-2006, 16:10
Um Yes,Re-read.
So , do you undestand how my kids are getting a better education than those kids whose parents thought I was mad to keep sending mine to school where there are so many non-english/Gaelic speakers ?
It is mainly down to numbers and extra resources , plus parents who have a problem with people who are different invariably pass some of that crap on to their children in their formative years .
Though what is even funnier is those parents are not gaeilgeoir , but always insisted that even though they cannot speak the language themselves their kids must be enrolled at the gaelscoil because they get a better education , but now are complaining that foriegners who just like them also don't speak the language are doing the same .
That is priceless .:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
This years new intake in the local gaelscoil was about 25% african , almost exclusively Nigerian .
So , do you undestand how my kids are getting a better education than those kids whose parents thought I was mad to keep sending mine to school where there are so many non-english/Gaelic speakers?
These schools tend to sex up the results here, there is no way a language barrier can benefit an education, teachers have a harder time explaining things because students don't understand what he says.
Tribesman
10-30-2006, 16:42
These schools tend to sex up the results here, there is no way a language barrier can benefit an education, teachers have a harder time explaining things because students don't understand what he says.
Errrrr........ummmmmmmm. ........yep , it appears that the language barrier is impeding understanding there , you do not understand what is written do you Frag .
Would you like me to go through it very slowly in simple words ?
Or shall I just repeat .....It is mainly down to numbers and extra resources ...... to see if you can grasp the core reason , the same core reason why non-Irish speaking parents send their kids to Irish speaking schools .:yes:
Errrrr........ummmmmmmm. ........yep , it appears that the language barrier is impeding understanding there , you do not understand what is written do you Frag .
Would you like me to go through it very slowly in simple words ?
Or shall I just repeat .....It is mainly down to numbers and extra resources ...... to see if you can grasp the core reason , the same core reason why non-Irish speaking parents send their kids to Irish speaking schools .:yes:
Numbers, I like numbers. Why not show me some that prove your kids are better of in these schools because I don't buy it. Here these schools score worse.
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-30-2006, 17:30
That's Why I go to Cyber (online) School, don't got to Deal with Any of this BS.
Cross, Amamzing,isn't it. You like a Cookie now?
Tribesman
10-30-2006, 17:32
:laugh4: :laugh4:
Numbers, I like numbers. Why not show me some that prove your kids are better of in these schools because I don't buy it. Here these schools score worse.
So I take it you didn't read the original article then :whip:
Oh dear :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: I shouldn't laugh really , you cannot help it can you :no: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Its quite simple Frag , an average of 20 kids to a class 1 teacher 1 fulltime assistant 2 part time assistant per class plus 9(inschool) rotating language specialists providing in class assistance plus extra classes on a language group basis (16 classes in all in the school)
The result being that half the time my kids are getting tuition on a 1;4 basis or better due to the immigrants being given the extra classes.
Compare to the school down the road , average 36 to a class , 1 teacher and 2 part time assitants per class .:yes: no contest eh
Now to take it back before the recent influx of immigrants .
Some people didn't want to send their kids there because of the numbers of itinerants enrolled . special funding and resources are allocated to the school to deal with this "burden" , but travellers often travel , when they ain't travelling many don't bother attending school , hence all the extra resources get spent on those kids that do go to school :2thumbsup:
So figure it out for yourself , those parents who have a problem with their kids attending the same school as immigrants or gypsies end up putting their kids in overcrowded underfunded schools .
Who do you think gets the better education ? simple isn't it:idea2:
:laugh4: :laugh4: :whip: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :no: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :yes: :2thumbsup: :idea2:
So I take it you didn't read the original article then
'It had the worst GCSE results in the entire Salford LEA last year with just 15 per cent of pupils achieving five good passes including English and maths, a third of the national average.'
King Ragnar
10-30-2006, 17:45
The children should be made to learn english, if i was put with asian people who could not speak english or any other people who could not speak english i would go absoloutley mental, its england we should speak the native tounge, so if black is racists now then, next time i am called white then there is gona be hell raised about it.
ahum ooops
Fewer than two per cent of pupils at Harrop Fold come from an ethnic minority.
It had the worst GCSE results in the entire Salford LEA last year with just 15 per cent of pupils achieving five good passes including English and maths, a third of the national average.
Lol that's unfortunate, I want my edit button :laugh4:
Ser Clegane
10-30-2006, 17:53
Wait a minute ... fewer than 2% of the school are ethnic minorities and yet there are 5(!) members of the ethnic minority in one class and these are working together as a group on a project?
I have the feeling that the integration of ethnic minorities at this school is a complete and utter failure...
The children should be made to learn english, if i was put with asian people who could not speak english or any other people who could not speak english i would go absoloutley mental, its england we should speak the native tounge,
The other language people go to school to learn how to speak english , in maybe 6 months time they will most probably be able to speak basic english fairly well - yes, its inconvenient in the short term (everyone needs to learn sign language) but in the long term communication is okay, these people can't go to seperate schools for basic english learning before mainstream schools because that would cost the government far too much.
I do agree that in English schools enlgish should be spoken in lessons.
so if black is racists now then, next time i am called white then there is gona be hell raised about it.
How many times :egypt: --> in the article the word "black" is used to indicate much more severe abuse - it can hardly quote the exact wording.
Wait a minute ... fewer than 2% of the school are ethnic minorities and yet there are 5(!) members of the ethnic minority in one class and these are working together as a group on a project?
I have the feeling that the integration of ethnic minorities at this school is a complete and utter failure...
Exactly they should really work on it, in fairness it is probably harder to integrate a 2% as opposed to say 10%, it would mean those of ethnic origin would stand out particularly obviously, forming a definate seperate group, also the other native students might not be accustomed to seeing those of different ethnic minorities, and as a result are (seem to be - in this case) racist
none of this justifies the police arresting the girl, the school ought to look after itself on this kind of thing.
:2thumbsup:
CrossLOPER
10-30-2006, 17:53
You found that candybar you lost 2 years ago and it's still edable?
Something to that extent, yes.
Tribesman
10-30-2006, 18:24
if i was put with asian people who could not speak english or any other people who could not speak english i would go absoloutley mental
Now that is just so tempting for a put down .
Wait a minute ... fewer than 2% of the school are ethnic minorities and yet there are 5(!) members of the ethnic minority in one class and these are working together as a group on a project?
I have the feeling that the integration of ethnic minorities at this school is a complete and utter failure...Ser Cleg
It probably has more to do with the small size of the ethnic groupings in the school .
It makes sense at the start of the school year to place the 3 recent immigrants who cannot speak English in the same class as the 2 who could speak both English and Urdu , until such time as the extra tuition becomes effective .
none of this justifies the police arresting the girl, the school ought to look after itself on this kind of thing.
Scurvy
I wonder how much the action revolves around the fact that this school is under the special measures program to address its state as a failed educational institution .
ahum ooops
Frag :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
See it does help , that way I wouldn't have had to write .....So I take it you didn't read the original article then :yes: and then you wouldn't have quoted it and still not read it , then actually read it and had to say:oops:
I wonder how much the action revolves around the fact that this school is under the special measures program to address its state as a failed educational institution .
I know very little about the special measures programme, however it seems to me that only by confronting this kind of thing internally can the school revitalise successfully, if students see this kind of thing needing the police brought in, what does that tell them of the authority and competance of their teachers (presumably fairly low standard at such a school - however they don't need to know this)
It hasnt been helped by the media picking it up, maybe without the media coverage it would have been the right course of action, depending on the severity of the abuse, :2thumbsup:
Crazed Rabbit
10-30-2006, 18:36
did she get thrown in jail ? no
Is a week a normal length of time for a police report on alledged verbal racist abuse to be started and processed ? probably
So what are you trying to say Rabbit ?
It seems like nothing , is it nothing ?
If so why bother saying it :yes:
Meh, she was 'placed in a cell' for 3.5 hours. Rather similar. The question stands then, why put her in a cell a week after the incident? Is that what they normally do for teens throwing hissy fits?
A complaint was made to a police officer based full-time at the school, and more than a week after the incident on September 26 she was taken to Swinton police station and placed under arrest.
"They told me to take my laces out of my shoes and remove my jewellery, and I had my fingerprints and photograph taken," said Codie. "It was awful."
After questioning on suspicion of committing a section five racial public order offence, her mother Nicola says she was placed in a bare cell for three-and-a-half hours then released without charge.
Even supposing she said something more racist than simply 'blacks' it is absurd to throw her in a cell a week after the fact.
Crazed Rabbit
Ser Clegane
10-30-2006, 18:45
Ser Cleg
It probably has more to do with the small size of the ethnic groupings in the school .
It makes sense at the start of the school year to place the 3 recent immigrants who cannot speak English in the same class as the 2 who could speak both English and Urdu , until such time as the extra tuition becomes effective .
Personally, I think it is rather counterproductive to have these 5 students together in one project group.
Of course it makes them feel more "at home" which they sure like (and at their age I probably would have liked it as well), but how are they supposed to integrate if the school even seems to support "seggregation"?
Wouldn't at least splitting them up into two groups so that they have to mingle with the "natives" be a better solution for getting them to know the language and other kids?
Frag :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
See it does help , that way I wouldn't have had to write .....So I take it you didn't read the original article then :yes: and then you wouldn't have quoted it and still not read it , then actually read it and had to say:oops:
Well even if I screwed up there it isn't really relevant for the article, which is about a girl being arrested because she didn't want to work with people that didn't speak her language.
Personally, I think it is rather counterproductive to have these 5 students together in one project group.
Of course it makes them feel more "at home" which they sure like (and at their age I probably would have liked it as well), but how are they supposed to integrate if the school even seems to support "seggregation"?
Wouldn't at least splitting them up into two groups so that they have to mingle with the "natives" be a better solution for getting them to know the language and other kids?
I think it makes sense, at least until they spoke basic english, this is because as individuals they are more likely to be singled out, with no group protection etc. and would probably work better as a group than seperated anyway
(I agree that 2 groups is a better idea) :2thumbsup:
Tribesman
10-30-2006, 19:23
Meh, she was 'placed in a cell' for 3.5 hours. Rather similar. The question stands then, why put her in a cell a week after the incident? Is that what they normally do for teens throwing hissy fits?
firstly it may be similar , but it is not the same, and it wasn't a "cell" , it was the youth suite , definately a long way away from your comment about her being thrown in jail . keeping her for 3.5 hours would be normal while they completed the paperwork . All of which is a long way off the mothers earlier claims that they jailed her poor daughter for 6 hours .
But yes it is normal when they have teens at the station being processed in relation to an alledged incident .
Well even if I screwed up there it isn't really relevant for the article, which is about a girl being arrested because she didn't want to work with people that didn't speak her language.
Nope the article is about a girl being arrested over alledged verbal racial abuse .
Personally, I think it is rather counterproductive to have these 5 students together in one project group.
Yep possibly
Of course it makes them feel more "at home" which they sure like (and at their age I probably would have liked it as well)
Yep and there you come to the real issue this chav had , she was annoyed that the class had been split into groups in her absence and she got stroppy because she missed the opertunity to be sitting with her mates .
Wouldn't at least splitting them up into two groups so that they have to mingle with the "natives" be a better solution for getting them to know the language and other kids?
Yep , but it appears part of the problem is that an example is shown that at least one of the other kids didn't want to mingle withthe non-natives .
Ser Clegane
10-30-2006, 20:21
Yep and there you come to the real issue this chav had , she was annoyed that the class had been split into groups in her absence and she got stroppy because she missed the opertunity to be sitting with her mates .
[...]
Yep , but it appears part of the problem is that an example is shown that at least one of the other kids didn't want to mingle withthe non-natives
No argument from me here - the behaviour of the girl was poor. She didn't like being put together with them? Well, sometimes you just have to accept that things are not always going your way and have to act maturely.
However, I see many failures in this case and one should not be used to excuse the other (no matter which one we are talking about). Integration requires all involved parties to be willing to leave the comfort zone.
Crazed Rabbit
10-30-2006, 20:26
firstly it may be similar , but it is not the same, and it wasn't a "cell" , it was the youth suite , definately a long way away from your comment about her being thrown in jail . keeping her for 3.5 hours would be normal while they completed the paperwork . All of which is a long way off the mothers earlier claims that they jailed her poor daughter for 6 hours .
But yes it is normal when they have teens at the station being processed in relation to an alledged incident.
So...you're saying that it is normal for the police to take a girl to the station, place her in a cell for 3 and a half hours, for a bit of alledged racial abuse a week before? Can you get arrested for being a racist? If it takes a week for the police to process the complaint why does it take another 3 and a half hours of her waiting in a cell to fill out more paperwork? What does that accomplish?
Why in the world does it take the police a week to write a report on some girl having a hissy fit in school- why would they even bother in the first place?- and then actually go an arrest her and take several more hours to do basically nothing more?
Police involvement in this at all seems ridiculous.
Crazed Rabbit
Tribesman
10-30-2006, 22:01
Well Rabbit , that is the process of the law , it is normal .
Yep police involvement does seem ridiculous , however the school is under the special measures program, that program is implemented when a school deteriorates so badly either education wise or in relation to student behaviour (though the 2 are often hand in hand) .
If the school cannot be turned around then it is shut down .
The government program deals with every negative aspect that affects the performance of the school and attempts to fix them , behavioral problems are one of those aspects , it seems that they really put the boot in in dealing with one problem .
I wonder how many other times they have had to do it , without of course the parents going crying to the Daily Mail about the damn immigrants and their darling chav being such a poor victim .
Duke of Gloucester
10-30-2006, 22:26
Actually 1 week to deal with a complaint of this nature (i.e. non violent, non urgent, no property to recover, no chance of the suspect absconding) is really fast for the police. It is another reason why most schools don't involve the police; discipline is much more effective when sanctions are administered immediately. The police don't like schools investigating or dealing with matters that they have become involved with because it taints witness evidence, so once the police are involved schools tend to back off. It often takes months for complaints to be resolved. The police also have no qualms about putting youngsters in cells (which is normal after someone is arrested) believing it might scare them back on to the straight and narrow.
CrossLOPER
10-30-2006, 23:29
The police also have no qualms about putting youngsters in cells (which is normal after someone is arrested) believing it might scare them back on to the straight and narrow.
Police: Now, now there little fella. You just think about this time when you feel like speaking your mind.
Youngster: This cell sux.
Police: What I tell you?
Youngster: I hate you. You're bald.
Police: Just wait til' you're eighteen !
EDIT: Apologies.
AntiochusIII
10-31-2006, 07:06
What cute racisms we have around here. I feel very much victimized now. Need welfare money. HULK NEED WELFARE MONEY!
...ahem.
The other language people go to school to learn how to speak english , in maybe 6 months time they will most probably be able to speak basic english fairly well - yes, its inconvenient in the short term (everyone needs to learn sign language) but in the long term communication is okay, these people can't go to seperate schools for basic english learning before mainstream schools because that would cost the government far too much.
I do agree that in English schools enlgish should be spoken in lessons.Precisely. That's how I learned English.
Of course, most people got to take the ELL (English Language Learners -- something of an American public school system's attempt to integrate pure immigrants; the people in there ranged from Eastern Europeans to various Asian nationalities) classes to augment their English skills alongside the regular but I think they judged me to be well-spoken enough to survive on my own, so they threw me into the real world right off the bat.
Two years forward, and I'm far superior as a writer than most people my age. Oh, and a few verbal English (OMG!) debate tournament trophies to boot. I guess we nasty job-stealin' immigrants can learn after all! :beam:
Guess that makes a dent in "I ain't gonna study with these ... and Chinamen 'cause they ain't white an' can't speak no English" complaint now, doesn't it?
Now, for the topic: I'd like to know the facts of the events before making judgement, sorry. Though, admittedly, the involvement of the police sounds far too severe for a juvenile problem. A mere racist outburst usually doesn't need police involvement.
By the way...
Ser Clegane: Not that I disagree with you or anything like that, since I don't know how schools in the United Kingdom works; but, in the US, public schools often have a permanently-placed police officer in campus all the time and there's really nothing particularly downtrodden about it. Unless there's a problem, they usually just stay there and talk to kids -- more like an extra dean except they don't really care if you break all those crappy school rules like deans do.
Can I just ask how the Asian children knew what the teacher was saying anyway? Did they have a translator or something?
I don't understand these people. Why would somebody be arrested for asking to change groups. People do that all the time in my science classes and I just say that they can/can't depending on the situation. If a girl was to say that to me I would allow her to move groups because the children in question would be interfering with her education. That is not racist and neither is referring to students as "blacks". It is the common ethnic name for their culture group and (although it is not very nice) is usually tolerated by African/Asian students in a school. They usually don't complain as long as an insult is not placed in the same sentence as the word "black".
Political correctness is out of control!
Police involvement in this at all seems ridiculous.
In my opinion it is ridiculous. Who needs the police in an issue that could just as easily be solved in school.
King Ragnar
10-31-2006, 09:51
One of the 5 asian children could speak english i think, thus they were translating it to the other children, once again seems insane to me, either learn our language or get out of our country basically.
AntiochusIII
10-31-2006, 10:08
One of the 5 asian children could speak english i think, thus they were translating it to the other children, once again seems insane to me, either learn our language or get out of our country basically.Excuse me? How do you learn the language?
Oh right. There's something called Total Immersion, often touted as the best and most natural way to learn the language. For some reason, I think letting us dirty immigrating mongrels mingle with the inherently superior natives is precisely that...
Though, if the school really has that small number of minorities and they are concentrated in such a manner, it speaks of the school's quality, really.
InsaneApache
10-31-2006, 13:57
On the topic of learning a language at school, when pater and his wife moved to Greece they didn't go to school to learn Greek they just picked it up from the locals. They now speak and write Greek fluently. It took them a year or so but it does have the advantage of them understanding the signage and helps immensely when they have had the occasion to deal with the local Notary. (Who can speak English but refuses to do so for official business)
:whip:
One of the 5 asian children could speak english i think, thus they were translating it to the other children, once again seems insane to me, either learn our language or get out of our country basically.
The Asian that could speak English must have been disrupting the class by talking at the same time as the teacher to translate for the non-English speakers? I think that it would also be just a little bit of a distraction for the rest of the class? Could I also ask how the Asians that could not speak English do their work. Either the teacher can speak and read their language or they don't get their work marked. They should either go to a school that has teachers that speak their native language or the school should get their own translator in for the individuals or they should go home, learn English and then come back. The second option would be the most sensible solution for the situation.
No wonder the place gets such low GCSE grades with students such as those in question not having suitable support.
When Sebastian and Isobel decide to move from London to a house in the south of France and take their darling little brats with them, what language do you think is used at the local school?
Ser Clegane
10-31-2006, 16:52
Ser Clegane: Not that I disagree with you or anything like that, since I don't know how schools in the United Kingdom works; but, in the US, public schools often have a permanently-placed police officer in campus all the time and there's really nothing particularly downtrodden about it. Unless there's a problem, they usually just stay there and talk to kids -- more like an extra dean except they don't really care if you break all those crappy school rules like deans do.
I assume that your statement is actually not directed at me, as I did not touch the issue of the police officer ~;)
King Ragnar
10-31-2006, 17:13
Excuse me? How do you learn the language?
Oh right. There's something called Total Immersion, often touted as the best and most natural way to learn the language. For some reason, I think letting us dirty immigrating mongrels mingle with the inherently superior natives is precisely that...
Though, if the school really has that small number of minorities and they are concentrated in such a manner, it speaks of the school's quality, really.
In a classroom with other people who don't know the language, seems the best way to me, i mean learning the language for another country is just good manners i would do it if i was going on holiday to another country, fair enough not the whole language but at least some!
Mithrandir
10-31-2006, 17:31
In a classroom with other people who don't know the language, seems the best way to me, i mean learning the language for another country is just good manners i would do it if i was going on holiday to another country, fair enough not the whole language but at least some!
So what languages have you mastered so far ?
sharrukin
10-31-2006, 17:46
So what languages have you mastered so far ?
In all likelyhood the language of the country he lives in!
Tribesman
10-31-2006, 18:39
I don't understand these people. Why would somebody be arrested for asking to change groups. People do that all the time in my science classes and I just say that they can/can't depending on the situation.
So asking to change groups is normal then Avlvs, it isn' t something that the teacher school or police feels it is neccasry to take disciplinary measures over .
So doesn't that mean that this cannot have been over simply asking to change groups , it was to do with alledged verbal racial abuse instead .
either learn our language or get out of our country basically.
Now that is interesting , isn't it your view that anyone who isn't "white" and christian shouldn't be in your country anyway regardless of if they speak the language or not .
Or was that someone else called ragnar who espoused those views ?
AntiochusIII
10-31-2006, 19:15
I assume that your statement is actually not directed at me, as I did not touch the issue of the police officer ~;)*shoots himself in the head.*
My apologies. :bow:
King Ragnar
10-31-2006, 23:48
Now that is interesting , isn't it your view that anyone who isn't "white" and christian shouldn't be in your country anyway regardless of if they speak the language or not .
Or was that someone else called ragnar who espoused those views ?
Firstly i am a atheist, secondly i don't hate all people of colored race, i just see the British to be superior as i am British, the same could be said about a German man thinking that Germans are better than any other nation, it called being nationalistic which isn't exactly a bad thing in my opinion, but i forgot at the org if it ain't liberal then it ain't right.
Firstly i am a atheist, secondly i don't hate all people of colored race, i just see the British to be superior as i am British, the same could be said about a German man thinking that Germans are better than any other nation, it called being nationalistic which isn't exactly a bad thing in my opinion, but i forgot at the org if it ain't liberal then it ain't right.
So someone who is 3rd-generation immigrant, speaks only English, and is going to go and do some high-class degree, is still worse than some idiot stealing a car, but who is 100% pure in-bred Anglo-Saxon?
Firstly i am a atheist, secondly i don't hate all people of colored race, i just see the British to be superior as i am British, the same could be said about a German man thinking that Germans are better than any other nation, it called being nationalistic which isn't exactly a bad thing in my opinion, but i forgot at the org if it ain't liberal then it ain't right.
Oh my word!
rory_20_uk
11-01-2006, 14:17
Special Measures is basically the school ha failed, the head teacher has been removed and everyone is under extreme stress that they might get sacked.
So, better to report every incident however minor it may be, so that the buck stops on someone else's desk. Teacher tells the new headteacher, who is acutely aware that their predecessor has just been sacked. So they tell the police. They are aware than although this is utter bull, to ignore it could have nasty consequences, especially if the headteacher is later in a position where they have to squeal that they did tell the police, but nothing was done. Far harder to ignore a governmental taskforce than a mere member of the public.
Hence, step by step the insane gets done, with every step a self-serving back protecting exercise.
I should know - at the whiff of trouble health professionals kick bad new upstairs as fast as they can.
~:smoking:
Its sad but true, in the majority of proffessions people are afraid to take responsibility or use their inititive in case of legal fallback, its terrible - and causes things to work much less efficiently :shame:
rory_20_uk
11-01-2006, 15:54
A recent case: Patient X was refusing treatment that a consultant felt was required. It eventually wasn't given as the legal department didn't agree.
Yup, there's a yellow streak right to the top. In this case I had to explain the same things to the patient repeatedly (I was told to do so) to ensure that social services had witnessed it! All in in all her treatment took an admission probably twice as long, and in terms of man hours to treat several multiples.
If the government would give doctors back the power to make decisions and make human error not a career ending mistake it would help enormously.
Generally, no doctor will get sued for ordering too many tests, or plugging away at a dying patient regardless of cost or pain. But dare to make a decision based on 40 years of practice, and you could be taken to the cleaners.
So we over prescribe, treat test results even if the patient looks fine and in the other extreme let people die following a protocol rather than think, as that might be viewed as unsound practice.
~:smoking:
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
11-01-2006, 15:59
Firstly i am a atheist, secondly i don't hate all people of colored race, i just see the British to be superior as i am British, the same could be said about a German man thinking that Germans are better than any other nation, it called being nationalistic which isn't exactly a bad thing in my opinion, but i forgot at the org if it ain't liberal then it ain't right.
good god. Lol find that Funny, and you want me to say Amercians are better the British since I'm A Amercian? :laugh4: :inquisitive:
:no:
Yeah, my mother's worked for the NHS for 20 years, and she never stops complaining about its inefficiency etc. (especially with the new budget cuts this year)
I don't blame the government though, i think its just the way society is now (following america - which i think is even worse) 0 they could try to give more legal protection to doctos, but it would be a very unpopular move. :furious3:
:2thumbsup:
rory_20_uk
11-01-2006, 16:22
It is the government - not just this one in part.
We have come from a "only spend what you have, save for a rainy day" society to one that expects everything now, and seems oblivious to the fact they might have to pay for it. Responsibility as an individual is pretty low. After all, there's the government to help, and don't you dare try to say that some problems are self inflicted as that's unPC.
In the NHS itself, people are promised that everything is getting better and faster. All services are free, and doctors aren't even allowed to criticise patients for being morbidly obese / smokers etc etc.
Imagine an NHS where to go to A&E was £10. If you've broken your arm, this is nothing. If you've had a cold for 2 days you might reconsider coming in. (I've had patients with a sore throat for 6 hours by the way...) A small change, but imagine the reduction in garbage ailments that comes through the door - or else a good revenue source.
An NHS where abuse really really isn't tolerated. Violent drunk? They get restrained and sedated. They got drunk, they took the poison, so why do we deal with the abuse? And in general, abusive patients are told to shut up or get out. We might then have far more time to treat people that are ill and non-abusive.
An NHS where either it is a monopoly, or private. Not this somewhere in the middle. Then when a contract is up for grabs, tender it out as one. "We want 100,000 PCs - who can do the best deal?"
An NHS where managers are not jumped up nurses. Amongst Nurses many positive features, brains ain't one of them. And when they are promoted up to managers from clinicians they are not even well trained! I've had meetings where basically us doctors ignore the managers completely, as they don't even know stock levels of crucial equipment in their own departments. Best ask the ourselves as we use the stuff.
Oh, and less of them. Senior clinicians need to get a manager to rubber stamp temporary nurses. The nurses are needed. The manager isn't there. So why the manager at all? The senior nurse has bone the job for over 10 years. She knows what she's doing.
The latter changes can be put in place by the government. As can stating what drugs are and aren't allowed. It required temporary unpopularity, showing that voters are responsible for their own lives. A bitter pill, but one required.
Doctors are professionals. If a mechanic beaks one's car, generally you don't sue the sod. So why doctors?
~:smoking:
Kralizec
11-01-2006, 16:53
If a mechanic beaks one's car, generally you don't sue the sod. So why doctors?
What are you saying? Doctors shouldn't be held responsible if they're grossly negligent and cause damage to a patients health?
Banquo's Ghost
11-01-2006, 17:08
Doctors are professionals. If a mechanic beaks one's car, generally you don't sue the sod. So why doctors?
You make some strong points, but not this one. If a mechanic breaks my car, I sure do sue him, especially if he has done it through negligence. Same with any professional - all of whom are liable for their advice/actions - that's why they're professionals with professional liability insurance.
Because when a doctor screws someone's health up and gets sued, it ain't him that gets to personally pay, is it now?*
EDIT for caveat: Unless he's been so rampantly negligent that even the GMC can't cover for him.
Kralizec
11-01-2006, 17:12
You make some strong points, but not this one. If a mechanic breaks my car, I sure do sue him, especially if he has done it through negligence. Same with any professional - all of whom are liable for their advice/actions - that's why they're professionals with professional liability insurance.
Because when a doctor screws someone's health up and gets sued, it ain't him that gets to personally pay, is it now?*
EDIT for caveat: Unless he's been so rampantly negligent that even the GMC can't cover for him.
I was going to make this point myself, till I decided this can't possibly be what he meant...
Otherwise I hope I'll never be under his care ~:help:
Bombasticus Maximus
11-01-2006, 17:12
they shouldnt be allowed in a english school if they cannot speak english at all.
100% percent right whats the point in letting someone here who can't speak our language or will learn it and it's going to get worse with all the people from the countries that are joining the EU. Cut down my ass. I was recently working somewhere that had 3 polish people inside it and one of them had been in the country for one week. (edited for language by Ser Clegane)
- edit the language :2thumbsup:
Its not that bad, i live right near the UK polish centre and they're very nice people, they all try to learn english (especially those in schools - people go to school to learn, including learning languages) - whats wrong with them having jobs, even if they've only lived here a week? It's what they've come to the country for, - at leats they are'nt standing round on the street.
:2thumbsup:
Tribesman
11-01-2006, 20:40
I was recently working somewhere that had 3 polish people inside it and one of them had been in the country for one week.
Well boo~hoo for you~:mecry:
how traumatising it must have been to have 3 foriegners at work in one place .:dizzy2:
As for ragnars post , well what can you say to that :beam:
you don't even have to supply the rope for some people to hang themselves:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Bombasticus Maximus
11-01-2006, 21:00
Edited for language by Ser Clegane
Tribesman
11-01-2006, 21:40
Was it something I said ?:shrug:
rory_20_uk
11-01-2006, 23:02
Doctors that are accused of wrongdoing can be suspended for months / years. As I said, their career is over - even if they did nothing wrong at all. They are tainted by the mistake.
And yes, there is a massive difference between gross negligence and a mistake. In my line of work people do die from mistakes.
Tests are interpreted, and interpreted results are combined to a care plan. Each point there is room for error - ignoring factors such as lab mixups or incorrect reports.
Unlike cars, people can not have broken parts fixed. We can't replace something we break, and people can't be restarted. Therefore it's hardly surprising that doctors increasingly practice defensive medicine, ensuring that whatever else they can't be sued.
~:smoking:
CrossLOPER
11-01-2006, 23:17
Was it something I said ?:shrug:
Bang smash crack!
Banquo's Ghost
11-02-2006, 10:19
Doctors that are accused of wrongdoing can be suspended for months / years. As I said, their career is over - even if they did nothing wrong at all. They are tainted by the mistake.
And yes, there is a massive difference between gross negligence and a mistake. In my line of work people do die from mistakes.
Tests are interpreted, and interpreted results are combined to a care plan. Each point there is room for error - ignoring factors such as lab mixups or incorrect reports.
Unlike cars, people can not have broken parts fixed. We can't replace something we break, and people can't be restarted. Therefore it's hardly surprising that doctors increasingly practice defensive medicine, ensuring that whatever else they can't be sued.
~:smoking:
Now that's a position I can agree with - an overly litigious society causes way too many side effects, and doctors are at the forefront of this because people expect medicine to be an exact and simple science. I imagine your patients expect you to solve everything now and perfectly and the government encourages this perception by talking about markets/consumers etc.
And I also agree that the suspension process is way too sensitive, unwieldy and takes way too long to resolve.
Anyway, enough of this tangent :bow:
Horatius
11-02-2006, 16:05
This is a case study in self loathing morons who can't handle the fact that England does infact exist.
If they wanted the girl to not speak english they should have assigned her a foriegn language course instead of a science course.
This is a story about a girl wanting to learn and so wanting to be in a group that could actually speak English, but a far leftist loonatic teacher having the police arrest her for that. Of course the pathetic school has made up a story to demonize the girl.
England does infact exist.
agreed
If they wanted the girl to not speak english they should have assigned her a foriegn language course instead of a science course.
This is a story about a girl wanting to learn and so wanting to be in a group that could actually speak English, but a far leftist loonatic teacher having the police arrest her for that. Of course the pathetic school has made up a story to demonize the girl.
:beam:
1. they did want her to speak englihs, and the foreign kids would learn english in time (probably more qucikly when being near english speakers)
2. but there is no proof (or even inclination) that the teacher is far left, or a loonatic - its already been discussed as to why the police got involved
3. the girls mother told the newspaper about the story, not the school, the school did nothing to demonize the girl - she was evidently rude to the foreign students, something that should be punished (although not by police)
:2thumbsup:
rory_20_uk
11-02-2006, 17:03
Woah! You expect a school to punish someone??? I don't see that happening - the parents would complain, and the school is already on special measures.
~:smoking:
:idea2: wishfull thinking :2thumbsup:
Tribesman
11-02-2006, 19:54
This is a case study in self loathing morons who can't handle the fact that England does infact exist.
Errrr....... that makes no sense at all .
Perhaps I read the wrong topic , was this the topic where english people said they hated being english and denied that englnd in fact existed ?
Or was that an imaginary case study in a land far far away over the rainbow then 2nd left till the roundabout and straight on to next monday.
Kralizec
11-02-2006, 23:07
So someone who is 3rd-generation immigrant, speaks only English, and is going to go and do some high-class degree, is still worse than some idiot stealing a car, but who is 100% pure in-bred Anglo-Saxon?
Hey King Ragnar, could you answer this question? I thought it was rather good and thought I'd post it again in case you missed it :smash:
Papewaio
11-03-2006, 00:05
This is a case study in self loathing morons who can't handle the fact that England does infact exist.
Right. Of course it is. Why, oh why don't I have the capacity to see that. Of course a teacher who tells a school kid which group she must be in is a self loathing moron who cannot handle the fact that England does in fact exist. Quite obvious when you state such a complex and in depth argument with such adroit aplomb handling.
If they wanted the girl to not speak english they should have assigned her a foriegn language course instead of a science course.
No, as someone who has taught EFL (English as a Foreign Language) the best methods revolve around immersion. Sure some classes will have to be ESL but the rest should be standard ones. Afterall it helps with intergration. You do want those foreigners to intergrate and learn about the local culture or do you want them to become isolationists and cling to all their old ways and reject the local one? Your choice.
This is a story about a girl wanting to learn and so wanting to be in a group that could actually speak English, but a far leftist loonatic teacher having the police arrest her for that. Of course the pathetic school has made up a story to demonize the girl.
She didn't turn up to the school the day before. If she really wanted to learn, no matter the scenario she was put into she would be able to overcome it. She had the benefit at least of being able to read the instructions, talk to the girl who spoke english and the ability to talk to the teacher. Instead she threw a hissy fit and stormed out of the class. And when called back into it made derogratory comments about the other students. She must be a model student.
KukriKhan
11-03-2006, 01:34
Somehow, someway... I don't know how he's hidden it, but
it's Bush's fault.
Strike For The South
11-03-2006, 02:31
The school was 2% minority and all of them were in one group! My Gawd! If they are going to school they should have a rudmentary grasp of english. Here in TEXAS we use ESL (English as a second language) The only probelm with this gem of bearucarcy is the students and teachers (both of whom are Mexican 99% of the time) just end up speaking spainish. This is a huge problem and one of the reasons we fall behind in test scores. Lardeo Brownsville McAllen all of which are 90% Mexican have some of the worst test scores in the nation. We need to change this.
This is a story about a girl wanting to learn and so wanting to be in a group that could actually speak English, but a far leftist loonatic teacher having the police arrest her for that. Of course the pathetic school has made up a story to demonize the girl.
Ya, before you know it people get facist sympathies and start channeling Hitler, better cook these brains while they are still moldable. All elements that may halt the comming of the utopia should be removed, with force if necesary. Soft facism at it's finest, we will tell you what to think, become, trancend. Always amazes me, every country/city/organisation does the same thing. They all want to be the special case where it works, and go trough tremendous lengths to keep the illusion real. Like arresting a girl because she thought of what is good for her. She should have thought, now what can I do to make it better for these poor immigrants that still don't have a plasma screen.
Big King Sanctaphrax
11-03-2006, 14:47
This is a story about a girl wanting to learn
This amuses me. I attended a high school of a similar ilk to this one, and recognize the character. Believe me, I doubt learning was uppermost in her mind.
This amuses me. I attended a high school of a similar ilk to this one, and recognize the character. Believe me, I doubt learning was uppermost in her mind.
You sure seem to know a lot about her. How does it benefit her that she has to work with people that just got dragged straight from the third world? If you were a parent and your son daughter is a straight A student(dunno if this lady was), and she is forced to work with people she cannot understand? And if she complaints about it, gets arrested like a common criminal? If these students don't speak english the school should make sure they do, but what do they do? They throw their crazy ideals about a big happy world with all colors dancing and bulletproof rainbows on a young girls lap that needs her education because she lives in the real world, where there isn't an army of heavily funded multicultists to protect her.
She[/I] is alone. Seeing most of the brits reaction to this case of extreme leftist facism, she is very very alone.
Kralizec
11-03-2006, 15:59
Somehow, someway... I don't know how he's hidden it, but
it's Bush's fault.
You Americans, thinking everything revolves around you.
It's Blairs fault!
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