The Mongols (Golden horde ~ Il-Khans) [Archive]

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Singleton Mosby

11-03-2006, 10:59

How will the mongols be represented in MTW2? Will they be playable?

And where can I find a preview of them and their units?

TB666

11-03-2006, 13:37

They will be playable in MP but not in SP.
There is no preview of them but there is a unit of theirs in the unit preview.

Furious Mental

11-03-2006, 14:27

Aside from that, judging from screenshots, they also get heavily armoured lancers, rocket launchers, archers, spearmen, and some sword/ archer combo inf. Probably other sorts of troops too.

LadyAnn

11-03-2006, 15:18

Rocket launchers? weeeeee :)

Anniep

TB666

11-03-2006, 15:20

Rocket launchers? weeeeee :)

Anniep
According to wiki, the mongols were the first that brought over the rocket launchers to Europe.

LadyAnn

11-03-2006, 16:03

I know. Did I say anything to the contrary? :P :)

Anniep

TheImp

11-03-2006, 16:11

Next time try kiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii :) It's the way to express it in japan :surrender:

TB666

11-03-2006, 16:12

I know. Did I say anything to the contrary? :P :)

Anniep
Well no.
Just general information for those that didn't know:sweatdrop:

LadyAnn

11-03-2006, 16:19

Oh ok :) weeeeee :)

Anniep

alpaca

11-03-2006, 16:57

I second. Weeeeee :yes:

Kavhan Isbul

11-03-2006, 18:42

TheImp

11-03-2006, 18:47

Looking at some posts above, rocket launchers seem to have dangerous side effects on sanity as well :wall: :yes:

Dutch_guy

11-03-2006, 19:18

I just hope the effect of these rocket launchers is mainly on morale, and not similar to that of a WW2 Russian Katiusha. And I most deffinitely hope the rocket launchers will not be able to destroy walls.

I'm almost certain they will be able to destroy walls. I mean, I can't come up with any reason why they wouldn't let those rockets destroy walls.

:balloon2:

alpaca

11-03-2006, 20:05

Looking at some posts above, rocket launchers seem to have dangerous side effects on sanity as well :wall: :yes:
Weeeeee!

Kavhan, check out the chapter 5 of the promo videos. They seem to be a bit like a H'wacha, so are mainly anti-person firearms.

Zenicetus

11-03-2006, 21:16

I'm almost certain they will be able to destroy walls. I mean, I can't come up with any reason why they wouldn't let those rockets destroy walls.

Well, I'm no expert but my understanding is that we're talking about relatively small, gunpowder propelled "fire arrows," probably fired simultaneously in large numbers. There may be a small incendiary or grenade head, but the problem with rockets (as artillery) is that most of the weight is propellant, so it can't hold a very big explosive warhead unless the rocket itself is pretty big... which these aren't, I don't think. It makes a good anti-personnel weapon, and might be good for setting fire to buildings during a siege, but I'm skeptical about direct effect against large stone walls. Compare that with a cannonball, which is all "payload," as it were, and has enough mass to batter down a wall if enough are used, even if it's not explosive and just a chunk of iron.

Here's a description from this source: http://www.spaceline.org/history/1.html

The use of gunpowder propelled weapons proliferated in the coming centuries, especially after their existence was confirmed by Europeans. In 1232, descriptions of a Mongolian siege of the city of Kai-fung-fu were widely circulated.

During this battle, the Mongols employed a potent form of fire arrow described as causing "thunder that shakes the heavens". These may have been primitive grenades launched by gunpowder propelled fire arrows. A single one of these was reportedly able to burn a 2,000 foot area.

So, I'm thinking maybe wheeled wooden boxes, each firing a salvo of relatively small, incendiary or small explosive rockets. Not something capable of taking down a wall. But I could be wrong. :beam:

Singleton Mosby

11-04-2006, 12:04

Aside from that, judging from screenshots, they also get heavily armoured lancers, rocket launchers, archers, spearmen, and some sword/ archer combo inf. Probably other sorts of troops too.

Could you please point me at those screenies?

Furious Mental

11-04-2006, 12:52

ProudNerd

11-04-2006, 16:01

https://img216.imageshack.us/img216/3550/931592071906screen001dl8.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

For instance here you can see heavy cavalry, rocket launchers, archers, and what look like armoured archers and spearmen. As well as some European troops (probably mercenaries).

hey those unit sizes are different to rimes there are 200 men archer units. unless its just because they are peasant archers.

Furious Mental

11-04-2006, 17:02

The armoured archers and armoured spearmen do not look like peasants. Probably something to do with how Mongol armies were organised (units of 10).

edyzmedieval

11-04-2006, 17:43

The Timurids will be the M2TW Mongols..Kinda weird, if you ask me.

Watchman

11-04-2006, 20:20

Nomadic horse-archers were typically very lightly equipped as far as armour went - a thick textile or leather coat was often as good as it got. Take such men off their ponies, or recruit from among their somewhat more settled cousins, and what you get is a foot archer pretty much like those unarmoured ones in the screenie.

Now, steppe warriors fully appreciated the usefulness of good armour and donned it if they could; most just couldn't afford it. The Mongols were pretty organized though and conquered parts of Central Asia and the Iranian plateau long famed as armour-production centers (even when they wiped out entire cities as cautionary examples, or out of sheer spite as in Khwarimzam, they made a point of sparing the armourers and other suhc useful craftsmen) and had been in possession of large parts of China for a while (most of their siege engineers and artiller operators were actually Chinese), and duly put them to producing war gear for their own troops. The sort of armoured horse-archers this produced would, if taken off their mounts, AFAIK look rather a bit like the ones in the screenies.

Plus they had few scruples about integrating the warriors of conquered regions into their armies for that matter. At least around Tamerlane's day there was apparently good armoured infantry (commnly also toting bows as one might imagine for such archery-heavy region) around in Central Asia, and the Mongols may well have drawn on the same pool.

Those "rocket cart" thingies kind of give me twitchy eyebrows though. They look like 1500s Korean hwa'cha arrow-rocket launchers, a weapon system that so far as I know only came to use a while after the collapse of the Yuan (Mongol) dynasty in China. Not that the Chinese didn't have somewhat similar weapons in use, but that particular design is AFAIK definitely out of place.

One also suspects the Mongols were rather more interested in explosive bombs and incendiary weaponry anyway. If they wanted to deluge their enemies in arrows, their own archers could do that right well enough.

Singleton Mosby

11-05-2006, 00:54

The Timurids will be the M2TW Mongols..Kinda weird, if you ask me.

And, why is that

Furious Mental

11-05-2006, 04:36

The Timurids look quite different to me. They have elephants, arquebusiers, etc.

screwtype

11-05-2006, 10:43

anders

11-05-2006, 15:57

Does anybody know if you can become a protectorate or somesuch to the mongols as the russians?

As you know, the russians succumbed to the mongol yoke, bowed down, paid tribute for a couple of hundred years and apart from that governed themselves pretty much as they pleased, aslong as they didnt cross the khanate, and watted for the right time to kick horde ass.

It would be cool if you, instead of getting butchered and loose the game as rhe russians, instead could choose this tactic and retain some of your lands.

btw. the timurids does not supplant the mongols inthe game, they will arrive later than the mongols and not in the same provinces, but their impact will probably be quite similar.

Orda Khan

11-05-2006, 16:21

Is that turn 20 I see in the screenshot? Anyway, regardless of the supposed date, I would have hoped to see predominantly horse archer based armies. The rocket launchers are contentious, it is a possibility that something of this kind may have been used, there are reports of smoke bombs or similar at Liegnitz. It could quite as easily have been fires. At Sajo, Batu used incendiaries to storm the bridge, though catapults are mentioned rather than rockets.

The Timurids will be the M2TW Mongols..Kinda weird, if you ask me.
I don't understand this

.......Orda

Orda Khan

11-05-2006, 16:26

Does anybody know if you can become a protectorate or somesuch to the mongols as the russians?

As you know, the russians succumbed to the mongol yoke, bowed down, paid tribute for a couple of hundred years and apart from that governed themselves pretty much as they pleased, aslong as they didnt cross the khanate, and watted for the right time to kick horde ass.

It would be cool if you, instead of getting butchered and loose the game as rhe russians, instead could choose this tactic and retain some of your lands.
It was possible to agree to this in RTW but in MTW II it depends whether the Mongols demand this or not

......Orda

Dutch_guy

11-05-2006, 17:18

I really like the look of these battlemaps. Some of the screenshots of Scottish troops fighting rebels over the .com looked really cool too.

Anyone notice the huge plethora of banners seems to be gone? Looks like only one big banner per unit now. Suits me!

In the screenies, the battle map also looks bigger - judging by the mini-map. Now that's a good thing, if you ask me.

:balloon2:

johhny-turbo

11-07-2006, 04:58

I really hope cavalry are the main unit for the Mongols and not infantry.

Orda Khan

11-07-2006, 17:05

I really hope cavalry are the main unit for the Mongols and not infantry.
I think we will find this is the case, at least early on. If the Horde remain for some time I can expect other units whether mercenary or conscripts though horse archers should still be the mainstay of their armies

.......Orda

Ferret

11-07-2006, 17:27

That 20 is how much prisoners the Mongols have captured, not the year! Since when did it tell you the year in a battle?