View Full Version : Guilds (and what they do)
How many guilds can we have in one city?
I have been receiving offers for the thiefs guilds over and over. I have been accepting them but I wonder if they prevent me from getting other guilds.
1 Guild per city seems to be the limit.
LordMorgan
11-17-2006, 23:59
I think only one guild per city so chose wisley.
Sir Robin
11-18-2006, 00:09
I wonder if the Thieves Guild really gives you any benefits? I have their Headquarters in Iraklion and the Merchant's Headquarters in Constantinople as the Byzantines. My merchants being produced in Constantinople still suck and take forever to improve while any spies or assassins produced in Iraklion only have one eyeball, ugh.:wall:
therother
11-18-2006, 00:13
I wonder, if you destroy a Guild do you still get offers for other ones? Does it discourage other Guilds from offering their services? I've not needed to destroy a Guild building as yet, but I may in the future: just curious if anyone knows if there's a penalty attached.
IrishArmenian
11-18-2006, 00:46
What are the different Guilds and what do they do? I don't have the game yet and I just was curious. The Thieves Guild sounds mysterious, but what benefits come along with it?
therother
11-18-2006, 01:27
2^=Guild|=Effect
4^=Alchemist's Guild|=Improves gunpowder recruitment
4^=Assassin's Guild|=Improves assassin recruitment and public order
4^=Hashashin's Guild|=Improves assassin recruitment and public order
4^=Masons' Guild|Reduces construction costs and improves public order
4^=Merchant's Guild|=Improves merchant recruitment and trade income
4^=Theologian's Guild|=Improves priest recruitment
4^=Thieves' Guild|=Improves spy recruitment
4^=Explorers' Guild|=Improves trade and movement
4^=Swordsmith's Guild|=Upgrades melee weapons
4^=Horse Breeder's Guild|=Improves cavalry unit recruitment
4^=Knights Templar|=Recruits Templar Knight units
4^=Hospitaller Knights|=Recruits Hospitaller Knight units
4^=Teutonic Knights|=Recruits Teutonic Knight units
4^=Knights of Santiago|=Recruits Knights of Santiago units
4^=Woodmen's Guild|=Improves missile unit recruitment
Jan Zamoyski
11-18-2006, 04:04
What does it mean in practice that the Explorers' Guild improves movement? It's description states that unite trained in a city with such a guild are supposed to move further but so far for me a unit build in such a city has exactly the same range of movement as other units stationed in that city that were not built there.
Are the effects of guilds regarding say spies, assasins, and merchants faction-wide or city-specific?
therother
11-18-2006, 05:01
Are the effects of guilds regarding say spies, assasins, and merchants faction-wide or city-specific?Those three are city-specific I believe. Although some do have faction wide effects (the swordsmith's guild for instance).
The in game popup had this to say about guilds from what I can recall, the more you use the more benifits you will get from it, if you stop using it they wont offer an upgrade for it.
With the assassins guild, the first level gets assassins built in that city the "Trained Killer" trait, +1 to agent's skill. The Master and Headquarters are global effects, they give "Apprentice" and "Journeyman" assassin traits to any assassin trained anywhere in your lands, which are worth +1 and +2 to skill respectively.
GUILDS
First, this is not my own research. This is taken from the key that came from the game (not sure if its only limited edition or not), and the reason I post this is because some people dont seem to know what some guilds do, how many of them are.
Second, I dont know what requires to get these, what triggers them to go up to a higher level, and what these higher levels can do for you besides the improvement+1. From what I have noticed is that crusader guilds (Teutonic, Templar, Santiago, and St. Johns) start coming when you participate in crusades.
**Guild name**
**Guild description**
**Guild levels**
Alchemists Guild
Improves gunpowder unit recruitment.
Alchemists Guild
Master Alchemists Guild
Alchemists Guild Headquarters
Assassins Guild
Improves Assassin recruitment and public order.
Assassins Guild
Master Assassins Guild (Offers recruitment for a limited number of factions)
Assassins Guild Headquarters(Offers recruitment for a limited number of factions)
Hashashin's Guild
Improves Assassin recruitment and public order.
Hashashin's Guild
Master Hashashin's Guild
Hashashin's Guild Headquarters
Masons Guild
Reduce construction costs and improves public order.
Masons Guild
Master Masons Guild
Mason Guild Headquarters
Merchants Guild
Improves Merchant recruitment and trade income.
Merchants Guild
Master Merchants Guild
Merchants Guild Headquarters
Theologians Guild
Improves Priest recruitment.
Theologians Guild
Master Theologians Guild
Theologians Guild Headquarters
Thieves Guild
Improves Spy recruitment.
Thieves Guild
Master Thieves Guild
Thieves Guild Headquarters
Explorers Guild
Improves trade and movement.
Explorers Guild
Master Explorers Guild
Explorers Guild Headquarters
Swordsmiths Guild
Upgrades melee weapons.
Swordsmith Guild
Master Swordsmith Guild
Swordsmith Guild Headquarters
Horse Breeders Guild
Improves cavalry unit recruitment
Horse Breeders Guild
Master Horse Breeders Guild
Horse Breeders Guild Headquarters
Knights Templar
Recruits Templar Knight units.
Templars Minor Chapter House
Templars Major Chapter House
Templars Headquarters
Hospitaller Knights
Recruits Hospitaller Knight units
St. Johns Minor Chapter House
St. Johns Major Chapter House
St. Johns Headquarters
Teutonic Knights
Recruits Teutonic Knight units.
Teutonic Knights Minor Chapter House
Teutonic Knights Major Chapter House
Teutonic Knights Headquarters
Knights of Santiago
Recruits Knights of Santiago units.
Knights of Santiago Minor Chapter House
Knights of Santiago Major Chapter House
Knights of Santiago Headquarters
Woodsmens Guild
Improves missile unit recruitment.
Woodsmens Guild
Master Woodsmens Guild
Woodsmens Guild Headquarters
I'm sure much of this is common knowledge, but this is the number of Guilds and exactly what they do.
Some of these Guilds, like the Assassins or Thieves, are open to all factions. Others though, like Templar or Theologians, are exclusive to certain factions.
Kobal2fr
11-18-2006, 08:47
The merchant guild building also lets Venice recruit Militia Horsemen earlier. Woodsmen lets the English train Men in Tights. Errr, Sherwood Archers.
I think their all pretty much offered based on your style of play.
Playing as Venice, I'm building lots of ports, markets, docks, fields and training as many merchants as I'm allowed to. The first guild to pop up in Venice when the town grows is always the Merchant guild, and I've had two offers from the Explorer's Guild afterwards (one in Crete, one in Antioch, the one in Crete after I turned down the Merchants there).
Later on I trained a lot of spies, trying to get one in each city with at least 4-5 skill, and the Thieve's Guild offered me a Master HQ.
Never had the Theologians though, despite the fact that I always have priests left and right (skilled ones too).
Haudegen
11-18-2006, 09:36
I got my first theologians guild (as HRE) after I took Jerusalem and destroyed the thieves guild which was already placed there by the Egyptians. Although I didn´t care too much about Catholizism and the pope. In fact my standing with the pope was awful, because he was mostly of the nationality of my enemies (Venice, Milan). But in spite of that after very few turns I was able to upgrade the guild to the third level. (BTW: After this I was able to acquire 8 seats in the cardinals college due to the mass production of "elite priests" in Jerusalem.)
Maybe there is an affinity of the theologians guild to certain cities?
Another example might be the swordsmiths guild. I never was offered one. But I finally got the swordsmiths guild HQ when I conquerered Toledo. AFAIK the spanish smiths were quite famous for their skills. Maybe there is another affinity?
I´d be very interested if the community had observed something similar.
BTW: I´m also interested in more details on what advantages the explorers guild offers.
Gustav II Adolf
11-18-2006, 10:59
Merchants Guild also gives the Spanish a heavy cav unit.
G
Faenaris
11-18-2006, 12:50
As far as I know, the Masons guild HQ gives the Russians a unit: the Berdiche Axemen.
Throumbaris
11-18-2006, 13:12
How do you get Merchant Cavalry Militia from custom battles? I would think merchant's guild but i couldnt find anything.
How do you get Merchant Cavalry Militia from custom battles? I would think merchant's guild but i couldnt find anything.
I think only certain factions can get Merchant Cavalry, and I do believe it does have to do with a merchant's guild. England is the one faction I can confirm that does have it.
Jan Zamoyski
11-18-2006, 13:18
The merchant guild building also lets Venice recruit Militia Horsemen earlier.
This effect is not limited to Venice. I can train Merchant cavalry militia in Merchants Guild playing as Poland, so I think it's a universal effect of this type of a guild.
I got my first Theologians guild after a spate of church building in my lands. The first level gives "Orthodox Training" for +1 piety to priests built there. The Master Theologians guild gives "Theologians Guild Apprentice" for +1 piety to priests built anywhere in my lands. I don't have the HQ, but I assume it'll work like the assassins guild and change that to "Guild Journeyman" for +2 piety globally.
And you can add Byzantium to the list of factions that gets Militia Cavalry from Merchants Guild. The HQ makes that Militia Cavalry with +1 experience, too.
Dr_Who_Regen#4
11-18-2006, 17:34
I was offered a Theollogians Guild in my capital. I did not have many church buildings, but it was about the only I place I recruited Priests from. So I think the guilds must take into account buildings and people built in a settlement.
A strange thing I noticed: The city where you have the "Master" level guild house doesn't get the basic level guild house bonus anymore.
Example: I had Master Thieves Guild in Venice, and Thieves Guild in Genoa => As a result, all my cities get the Master bonus, but in Genoa, my spies get BOTH the global Master bonus and the Basic city-specific bonus (So they are minimum +2 skill at the start).
Correction to this would be that Master guildhouses and HQs should give the global bonus AND in addition the basic guildhouse bonus to agents trained in that city. Otherwise the cities with basic guildhouses will build the more skilled agents, which doesn't make sense.
ViolentRebellion
11-20-2006, 09:12
Has anyone gotten the Templars offered to them?
I have a general with a templar and the grand master of the Templars in his entourage but I haven't been offered there guild.
I've completed 2 crusades and have perfect relations with the Pope.
I was offered the minor Templar guildhouse playing as the Poland. They wanted to set up in Krakowa, after the city had reached its, uh, 2nd stonewall stage. The game is going well in other regards, having taken Jerusalem with a crusade (received templar and hospitalier retinues for my general, probably because I was accompanyed by unit of Templar knights) after which the eggies sued for peace. So I gave them one, at the cost of Acre castle. It was still a generous offer for some reason. Odd.
For what it is worth, I had built many priests from Krakowa, done as the pope had wanted, only attacked rebel settlements, yada yada.
I was offered St. John Hospitalier Guild in Acre after a succesful crusade and right after building a cathedral in my capital (London). London already had theologians guild. not quite sure if it was linked but it seems logical as well maybe your curent standing with the pope.
Widget Maker
11-20-2006, 12:05
The headquaters of the Assassins guild is extremely valuable, it means all my assassins start with 4 eyes normally(I think my king has a retinue member that boosts assassins. Gets rid of the crappy early training and 2-3 kills later they have max stats. As the Venician family have found out to their cost(and a couple of popes, screw elections, they vote the wrong one in then kill him (44% chance for a newly elected pope and a perfect assassin).
Kobal2fr
11-20-2006, 12:25
Just making sure, because the question's been nagging me for a while : if you accept, say, a basic merchant guild in your city, will it be eventually upgraded to master's guild / HQ as the population grows and offers come ? Or will you be stuck with a level 1 guild forever because you jumped on the occasion ?
My little experiences till now:
- Guilds seem to prefer cities where assosiated units are produced. I built assassins in Frankfurt, priest in Nürnberg and was offered the guilds some time after.
- Of course for a knight guild the above rule cannot be valid. It may be coincidence for this kind of guilds? I was offered to build teuton knight guild in different towns and a castle, being at very bad relations with the pope and without taking part in a crusade or builing churches.
- You can destroy a guild and receive an offer later for another guild in the same town. I destroyed my teuton knight guild in Frankfurt, received an offer to build assassin guild there and for teuton knight guild a little later in Hamburg.
- Even with the best assassin guild the use of assassins is very painful and of not much effort. My +10 assassins are hardly capable to kill pesty inquisitors. Ok, a bit exaggerated, but only a bit. And I hate assassins loosing abilities because of failures, although it's very realistic because nobody in the world is able to learn from mistakes.:wall:
FrauGloer
11-20-2006, 13:00
So far, as the Scots, I have a Swordsmith's guild in Nottingham and have been offered another in Hamburg, as well as Theologican, Thief, and Explorer in several cities (in London most of all --> they seem to like that one ^^) I haven't participated in any crusades yet (mainly because I've been almost permanently excommunicated for bashing the English, the back-stabbing French, and the pesky Danes), but now that there's a new Pope and my enemies subdued, I'm planning for a crusade to the Holy Land. I really hope to get the Hospitaler guild house soon, as the Scots lack decent cavalry in the later period. BTW: Why would you want Templars over Hospitalers? They are weaker and you don't get the Health bonus the Hospitaler guid gives you.
Spendius
11-20-2006, 13:05
I think only certain factions can get Merchant Cavalry, and I do believe it does have to do with a merchant's guild. England is the one faction I can confirm that does have it.
French have them too.
I can make them at Bruges, as the English.
Just making sure, because the question's been nagging me for a while : if you accept, say, a basic merchant guild in your city, will it be eventually upgraded to master's guild / HQ as the population grows and offers come ? Or will you be stuck with a level 1 guild forever because you jumped on the occasion ?
The offer to upgrade doesn't seem to be based so much on city growth as it does on your continued performing whatever the guild is involved with. While there is a size prerequisite (must be large city to get a Master building and huge to get a HQ), if you stop making/using assassins, you'll never get the upgrades. If you do it a lot, you'll certainly get the Master building (everyone can have one, and even more than one if you capture them), and the HQ if no one else gets it first.
Some people hit the nail on the head. Guilds gravitate to your cities based on your construction and recruit history. Early in my English campaign I was churning out quite a number of spies and lo and behold, I got requests to build Thieves Guilds in the cities where I recruited most of my spies. I churned out tons of Peasant Archers and Longbowmen in Nottingham and boomf! I got a Woodsmen Guild and can now produce those infamous men-in-tights from Sherwood with their uncanny marksmanship ability. I kept making trade boosting buildings and Merchants in Rennes and bam! Merchants Guild.
A strange thing I noticed: The city where you have the "Master" level guild house doesn't get the basic level guild house bonus anymore.
Example: I had Master Thieves Guild in Venice, and Thieves Guild in Genoa => As a result, all my cities get the Master bonus, but in Genoa, my spies get BOTH the global Master bonus and the Basic city-specific bonus (So they are minimum +2 skill at the start).
Correction to this would be that Master guildhouses and HQs should give the global bonus AND in addition the basic guildhouse bonus to agents trained in that city. Otherwise the cities with basic guildhouses will build the more skilled agents, which doesn't make sense.
Sounds like a bug that deserves patching. Please post your findings in the Bug thread stickied at the top of this forum.
I wonder how well these guilds stack: Swordsmith guild (Global +Knight Exp) + Horse Breeder Guilde (GLobal +Cavalry Exp) + Tourney Field (Local +Knight Exp) + Crusading Order (Local +Crusader Knight Exp). Gold Chevron Crusader Knights right out of the recruitment queue anyone?
Assassins Guild
Improves Assassin recruitment and public order.
Assassins Guild
Master Assassins Guild (Offers recruitment for a limited number of factions)
Assassins Guild Headquarters(Offers recruitment for a limited number of factions)
Besides Hungary's Battlefield Assassins
Are there any other Factions who can build special units from the Assassin's guild that I am somehow not discovering when checking out unit rosters in custom battle mode?
I'd think that Battlefeild assassins are it. So is Hungary the only ones who get them? Also Hashasim guilds give battlefeild Hashasim.
Some people hit the nail on the head. Guilds gravitate to your cities based on your construction and recruit history.
I have a very limited sample to draw from but from only only experience in getting an offer for a guild I recieved the thieves guild offer.
in that game I only had 2 spies (and I am fairly certain I only had 1 active when I got the offer but am not 100% sure) but I had been using my 1 spy to spy out cities every single turn. playing as Russia, spying on poland constantly.
use this info however you will in determing a cause/effect of guilds
Ive gotten loads of offers for Thieves guilds, but I do build alot of spies. I also have the thieves headquarters in Arhus (playing as English), a minor Templar Chapterhouse in Inverness, the Theologians guild in York and the Woodsmans guild in Caen. The Templar Chapterhouse puzzled me as I hadnt went on crusade when I was offered it, although I did have alot of piety, cardinals and full reputation with the poe (& alliance with Papal States)...<br>
I got offers for Swordsmiths Guilds when two things happened: 1) the castle in question had as high as a heavy armorer, and 2) I had been building a lot of melee infantry which could take advantage of the guild weapon upgrade. In one castle, I built all the way up to an armor factory, but didn't get the swordsmith guild until I started cranking infantry out of it.
Theologians guild offers started coming in when I built a lot of churches and priests in a short period of time. Merchants guilds came from building merchants and trade improvements. I have no idea what I did to get a horse breeders guild; it can only go in a city, and no cavalry can be recruited in a city for most factions.
Fisherking
11-21-2006, 07:30
The guilds seem to offer service until you pick one in your city/fort. I got an offer very early before going to war for the Templers as Scotland. Towns with merchant's guild build merchant cav. If you want a special guild in a city, just turn the others down until you get the one you want. If you take the offer of the swordsman's guild you won't get the Templers etc.
LegioScythia
11-21-2006, 07:52
Ive got a master theologians guild in London so every priest i train there starts with almost a full piety i also have the Templars Knights Major Chapter House and The St. Johns Major Chapter House i got some more guilds i think
Where and after what trigger (if you know, or take a gander) have you guys gotten Templar's guild offers?
Wonderland, I was Pope Gregory's poster boy, playing as Poland. Krakowa had churned out close to 10 priests, which were immediately sent to low catholic regions to convert those poor lost souls and to give me several cardinals (you don't seem to get bad vices for priests if they are in one big blop while converting), churches and chappels had been built everywhere, trade agreements were being made. I was the good lil' catholic who could. It is fortunate that Poland is surrounded by heathen/heretic provinces, I think.
LegioScythia
11-21-2006, 09:33
Where and after what trigger (if you know, or take a gander) have you guys gotten Templar's guild offers?
Yeah when you complete a crusade you get one i think
So what does one need to do to get the templar guild? I've been in crusades but all I get are St. John's guild options. I want templars! lol... Is there some specific path you have to take on crusade to gain it?
So what does one need to do to get the templar guild? I've been in crusades but all I get are St. John's guild options. I want templars! lol... Is there some specific path you have to take on crusade to gain it?
LegioScythia
11-21-2006, 20:59
Ive completed a Crusade to Jerusalem and then i got both offers
Kekvit Irae
11-22-2006, 01:16
Apparently certain regions are marked for certain guilds. When I looked into the descr_regions.txt file of the No Brigands/No Pirates mod (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=72519), I noticed that a few regions have guilds in them. (ignore the no_brigands and no_pirates flags, these are included in the mod)
Nottingham_Province
Nottingham
england
English_Rebels
232 41 198
dyes, wool, atlantic, explorers_guild, woodsmens_guild, no_pirates, no_brigands
5
5
religions { catholic 90 orthodox 0 islam 0 pagan 5 heretic 5 }
This leads me to believe that only certain regions can get the explorers guild or a woodsmens guild, as noted by the absence of either in Venice...
Venice_Province
Venice
venice
Italian_Rebels
13 198 117
textiles, no_pirates, no_brigands
5
9
religions { catholic 95 orthodox 0 islam 0 pagan 3 heretic 2 }
Some are even marked as locations of chapter houses...
Hamburg_Province
Hamburg
hre
German_Rebels
232 198 41
silver, atlantic, explorers_guild, teutonic_knights_chapter_house, no_pirates, no_brigands
5
6
religions { catholic 75 orthodox 0 islam 0 pagan 20 heretic 5 }
Templar's Guild offered to me early as the Scots in Wales (Caenarvon). Not sure what the specific trigger was, but the offer came soon after building a blacksmith. As others have mentioned, good standing with the Pope may make a critical difference in getting the different knight's guilds.
Through some testing, I agree that specializing the builds in different cities/castles has an effect on guild offers.
Kekvit Irae seems to have the inside scoop from the descr_regions file.
Great thread !
Maybe I just need to sleep but I actually don't get it.
What does "improved" mean ? Exactly ? i.e numerically.
Does it actually do something stats-wise ?
According to the manual or something else I read that there is only 1 HQ so if another faction has it, you may never get the offer.
I still have yet to figure out the explorers guild unless my movement points was added and not given as a trait.
Merchant guild sucks for me as I still get 1 star merchants at times.
Mostly I get theoligciian and merchants guild, got the woodsmen guild tho and my robin hood troops..:)
Still hoping for a templar guild.
Apparently certain regions are marked for certain guilds. When I looked into the descr_regions.txt file of the No Brigands/No Pirates mod (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=72519), I noticed that a few regions have guilds in them.
*snip*
This leads me to believe that only certain regions can get the explorers guild or a woodsmens guild, as noted by the absence of either in Venice...
Venice_Province
Venice
venice
Italian_Rebels
13 198 117
textiles, no_pirates, no_brigands
5
9
religions { catholic 95 orthodox 0 islam 0 pagan 3 heretic 2 }
*snip*
Hmmm:
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/wizmouse/ExplorersGuild.jpg
Kobal2fr
11-27-2006, 20:30
I was about to reply that I often had it in Venice as well. So the guilds mentionned in desc_strat are either meaningless remnants of a former system, or maybe it means that the guilds mentionned have more chances to pop up there than average+building history ?
Darth Nihilus
11-27-2006, 22:14
In all of my catholic campaigns i have only been offered the Hospitallers, never the Templars.
Local usage is certainly not my experience, when it comes to offer of guilds.
As the HRE, the first three Thieves Guilds were to me in Bologna, Florence and Venice. None of them had Brothels at the time of the offers. Also, on my first crusade I was able to ship in Teutonic Knights from Frankfurt. And before that crusade was over I got an offer for another chapter in Hamburg.
Also got a Merchants Guild, however that could be slaved to Merchants, as it was offered to me in Vienna, which was indeed my main Merchant recruiting ground.
So it me it seems that you only need to do things globally and be lucky (I have trained endless waves of assassins but still no Guild), meanwhile certain cities will get offers of something sooner or later.
The manual indicates that Guilds will offer missions... I haven't gotten any, what about you guys?
Merchants guild: "Get trade agreement with faction___." "Will give payola upon completion."
Ahh... good to see the missions do happen. What was your guild level?
'payola'? Money?
Well technically the term payola is a descriptor for illicit payments. But I generally use it to denote a cash incentive for doing something.
Guild level? hmmm. :huh2: Not really sure. It seems that the chances of getting a merchants guild mission are better if you have a higher level guild. I've never gone beyond master merchant, but IIRC I've goten merchant missions with only a level 1 guild. I may have had more than one.
Well technically the term payola is a descriptor for illicit payments. But I generally use it to denote a cash incentive for doing something.
So they use that word?
Anyway, I might have heard/read it before, but I think it is too technical for me. Or maybe th other way round... I don't know. I normally only deal with english on forums or in books on history (or fiction), so I suppose I would read 'illicit payment' 100 times for every 'payola'.
No the game doesn't. I do talking about though. :sweatdrop: I make it a point not to use proper english most times. Anyway the game says, "You will be rewared with 500/1000/2500 florins." Or, "You will be rewarded with coin."
Ah ok.
Would be fun if it did say payola.
I've never gotten one of those missions, despite always having one Merchants' Guild HQ... Must be because I always send my diplomats to every faction in the known world as fast as I can and establish alliance and trade rights with everyone.
well, i don't know about "accepting" guilds how many you can have, but you can edit the desc_strat to have them all (well, all if i could figure out the name being used for the Thieves Guild). i've been trying to test the effects and figure out the higher level names. so far i can't figure out the master level names, but i succeeded in starting off Paris with every guild available to them with the Thieves exception. despite the city not being large enough to support the invite, it still alows the buildings to exist without CTM.
As Spain I have twice gotten missions from the explorers guild to take a city in France with a promise of them being very happy with me and giving me gold and a penalty of them not being happy with me, both came after I got the explorer HQ. So apparently guilds can like or dislike you as well.
Kekvit Irae
11-29-2006, 06:43
The Merchant's Guild will also give you missions to forcefully seize an enemy merchant using one of your own merchants.
My first reply got lost so this will be shorter.
I have an explorer guild hq at Venice.
My castles mostly have swordsmith guilds. I think that getting to a certain tech level and building melee units increase your chances of getting it.
I have lots of merchant guilds though I build no merchants. Instead, I build banks, roads, ports, markets, etc.
Rhodes got the theologian guild hq, though I didn't use that as a priest building province. I think I only built 1 when I got the first guild invite.
Trithemius
11-29-2006, 07:46
Does anyone have hard data on what effects the guilds have yet? If they follow the pattern of the Swordsmith's Guild then presumably it is:
Guild: minor local bonus
Master Guild: minor local bonus, minor global bonus
Headquarters: minor local bonus, major global bonus
Does this apply for all the guilds? I am especially interested in whether the Explorer's Guild offers a global bonus, or just a bonus to troops raised locally.
Does anyone have hard data on what effects the guilds have yet? If they follow the pattern of the Swordsmith's Guild then presumably it is:
Guild: minor local bonus
Master Guild: minor local bonus, minor global bonus
Headquarters: minor local bonus, major global bonus
Does this apply for all the guilds? I am especially interested in whether the Explorer's Guild offers a global bonus, or just a bonus to troops raised locally.
I am not 100% positive yet but I think the explorers guild will give your general or agent an explorer retinue trait that will allow for increase. So far 2 of my generals have gottten this and both seem to have been parked threre. But dont know what triggers it as I tried moving more and they dont get it.
Building things does seem key for alot tho, because one of my captured towns had a merchants guild which I already had 2 so I destroyed it and next turn assasins offered me a guild and I was making them there.
The Explorers Guild seems to offer the most missions out of all of them.
I've found that if you want the Knights guilds, then you just have to build a lot of heavy cavalry in a short period. Likewise, lots of heavy infantry built quickly will get you the Swordsmiths Guild. I think it's all linked to unit production, although there does also seem to be the provision for the game to offer you random guilds from time to time.
I've never seen the Masons Guild....
Trithemius
11-29-2006, 15:02
I've never seen the Masons Guild....
Once, in Marseille, as the HRE on M/H.
I believe that I got it since I was building basically everything I could (paid for by my terrible sacking of French and Sicilian lands!)
I'm curious about what counts as "heavy infantry" for the Turks. Any ideas anyone?
I got a Mason's Guild in Pamplona in my current Spanish campaign. I think what triggered the offer was I had converted a lot of settlements recently. Pamplona went from fortress to city, Bordeaux and Angers the same, Tunis went from castle to large town and Valencia went from wooden castle to town not long before.
Jan Zamoyski
11-29-2006, 18:09
The Explorers Guild seems to offer the most missions out of all of them.
I've found that if you want the Knights guilds, then you just have to build a lot of heavy cavalry in a short period. Likewise, lots of heavy infantry built quickly will get you the Swordsmiths Guild. I think it's all linked to unit production, although there does also seem to be the provision for the game to offer you random guilds from time to time.
I've never seen the Masons Guild....
In my campaign I haven't received even a single mission from my Explorers Guild which I have for a long time. Also none of my generals or agents received any traits or retinues related to movement speed od something like that, regardless of how long they resided in a city with Explorers Guild (note - it is only Minor Guild).
On the other hand I have received few missions from my Merchants Guild - the first one when it was still only a Minor Guild but since than it was upgraded to Major Guild.
I also noticed that AI seems to be getting lots of Thieves Guilds - I already conqured 4 cities with those guilds. The only other guild I've found in a conquered city (or a fortress to be precise) was Swordsmiths Guild.
Well, I have recieved a lot of Thieves guilds as well. Chances are that the AI just picks whatever comes first, and that is usuallythe Thieves Guild.
Zharatustra
11-30-2006, 00:57
ok
my experience is you get the first guild invite at minor city/fortress...
the invites seem to cycle thru depending on what buildings you have...ei if you have even a brothel in a minor city you will first be offered theives. if you decline, you will be offered assassins guild on the next turn. so a minor city with no brothel line will then be offered merchant guild if you have a market, theologian if you have a church, explorer guild if a port is preasent...etc...
then if you have the x guild and that settlement reaches major or large city(whichever it is ) you will be offered the upgrade to master x guild and so on...
i think.
ViolentRebellion
11-30-2006, 01:44
Ive completed a Crusade to Jerusalem and then i got both offers
Do me a favor?
Describe the specifics of your crusade; turn #, standing with the papacy before and after, cities you took in the ME, army you brought to the ME, agents you brought to Jerusalem.
I've completed an English campaign and only had Knights of St. John. I held Jerusalem and had the Papacy locked down since turn 65 or so. I had the College of cardinals stacked with my priests.
Now I'm the French and I took Jerusalem in a crusade around turn 40 or so and the pope is french.
I always maintain an oustanding or perfect relation with the papacy through bribes/doing what is asked/building lots of priests and cathedrals.
I also use a lot of calvary in all my battles.
so basically... WTF am I doing wrong?
I haven't noticed any movement or trade improvement, but the Explorer's Guild does appear to boost the ship recruitment pool(s) for the city that it's located. I have the Explorer HQ in Caernarvon, a fully built up huge city, and have a pool of 16 holks and 5 cogs, compared to only 3 of each in other similarly built up huge cities that don't have Explorer Guilds.
As a note, as far as I can tell, extensive shipbuilding will gain and upgrade the Explorer Guild.
And as speculated earlier in this thread, it's definitely worthwhile tasking one of your cities to doing nothing more than recruiting non-knight cavalry so that you get the Horse Breeders Guild as well as the usual Swordsmith and Crusading Knights. I've been continuously building Demi-Lancers in Nottingham and just finally upgraded to the Master Horse Breeders building, which means - together with a Master Swordsmith's Guild, St Johns HQ and Tourney Field - I'm currently able to produce triple silver chevron Hospitallers. And once I get the Horse Breeders HQ, they're going to be single gold chevron straight out of the box!
I read in the sticky topics the Horse Breeder's Guild is available only in the cities. And really - it was offered to me in Constatinople. But what is the use of such guild in a city?
Trithemius
12-01-2006, 05:01
I read in the sticky topics the Horse Breeder's Guild is available only in the cities. And really - it was offered to me in Constatinople. But what is the use of such guild in a city?
If you are an Islamic faction you can recruit certain cavalry units in cities with the Racing Track buildings.
Also, you can get the guild's global effects once it improves.
Once again, any Turk players know what is good for getting swordsmith guilds? What counts as infantry for the Turks - almost all their infantry seems to be light spears or missile troops.
Once, in Marseille, as the HRE on M/H.
I believe that I got it since I was building basically everything I could (paid for by my terrible sacking of French and Sicilian lands!)
I'm curious about what counts as "heavy infantry" for the Turks. Any ideas anyone?
Jannisary heavy infantry! :wink3: Plus any other unit with lots of armour and a sword/mace/axe/polearm.
The Spanish can recruit Jinetes in cities that build the Plaza del Toro, and also can recruit Gendarmes in huge cities that have a Royal Military Academy. But not all factions have the ability to recruit cavalry in cities aside from Militia Cavalry with a merchant's guild, and if you have that you can't have the horse breeders guild in the city.
Odd note, however: as Byzantium I got a horse breeders guild in Iasi. Byzantium has no method of recruiting cavalry in cities without a merchant's guild, so either the trigger is global or it's something else.
Do guild offers that you reject pop up again for the same city ?
They would pop up again for other cities I assume.
Have we arrived at a consensual conclusion as to how the game determines which city gets an offer ?
Mr Frost
12-01-2006, 06:28
Jannisary heavy infantry! ...
Like you would need any other ;p
Once again, any Turk players know what is good for getting swordsmith guilds? What counts as infantry for the Turks - almost all their infantry seems to be light spears or missile troops.
I have'nr gotten that far, but I guess Ottoman Infantry or any other unit whihc has a decent melee would do ok. Then there's JHI of course.
Does anyone have hard data on what effects the guilds have yet? If they follow the pattern of the Swordsmith's Guild then presumably it is:
Guild: minor local bonus
Master Guild: minor local bonus, minor global bonus
Headquarters: minor local bonus, major global bonus
Does this apply for all the guilds? I am especially interested in whether the Explorer's Guild offers a global bonus, or just a bonus to troops raised locally.
This is how I got my explorer's guild offer, the first time ever.
I sent 4 diplomats out to:
-Iberia
-North Eastern Europe
-North Western Europe
-Russia
I belive this is how I got the offer. Additionally I sent Imams to every close 0% Muslim province.
Now I'm really interested in knowing if the movement bonus is global or not. Anyone know how to find out ?
I wish it would just say what the bonus is in the building browser instead of all the hoopalaa.
Trithemius
12-01-2006, 08:22
Jannisary heavy infantry! :wink3: Plus any other unit with lots of armour and a sword/mace/axe/polearm.
Cheers! Do Kapikulari count?
If you mean Kapikulu, they don't because they are cavalry.
Nobody knows if explorer's guild bonus is global ? I guess it must be following on the other guilds.
Jan Zamoyski
12-03-2006, 02:51
I read in the sticky topics the Horse Breeder's Guild is available only in the cities. And really - it was offered to me in Constatinople. But what is the use of such guild in a city?
Poland can build cavalry units - Hussars in its largest cities without any additional structures.
Maybe there is an affinity of the theologians guild to certain cities?
Another example might be the swordsmiths guild. I never was offered one. But I finally got the swordsmiths guild HQ when I conquerered Toledo. AFAIK the spanish smiths were quite famous for their skills. Maybe there is another affinity?
If you crack open the game files you will see that Toledo has an increased chance of being offered a swordsmith's guild, so yes. Most guilds have 'favored' cities.
Trithemius
12-03-2006, 05:28
If you mean Kapikulu, they don't because they are cavalry.
Each of my texts has a different anglicisation, so I just pick one at random. But yes, that is what I meant. I think the in-game spelling has a q, from memory...
Nobody knows if explorer's guild bonus is global ? I guess it must be following on the other guilds.
I asked this too, but no-one had any reports.
Yeah I used a different spelling than M2:TW as well. I'm glad these guys made it to the game. I remember in 2003 I made a post about this cavalry and that it would balance somewhat the gameplay and be historically correct. Looks like thye might have been listening. The skinning is too plain though. Now I've forgotten what the standard was, yellow stripes over the horse's mail armor IIRC. Naturally they's also have bright display banners and heralds.
I believe in Turkish kapikulari refers to the system as a noun, where as kapikulu are the people in the system. The royal guards, chancellors, administrators etc... It's seperate from the rest of the other administrations. I guess the correct term in English would be Royal Administration or Royal Service (His Majesty's Service) and the like. Not sure 100% about that though, but IIRC that's the difference.
It's hard to tell about the explorer's guild. I'll get back if I notice a global bonus.
Trithemius
12-03-2006, 06:18
I believe in Turkish kapikulari refers to the system as a noun, where as kapikulu are the people in the system. The royal guards, chancellors, administrators etc... It's seperate from the rest of the other administrations. I guess the correct term in English would be Royal Administration or Royal Service (His Majesty's Service) and the like. Not sure 100% about that though, but IIRC that's the difference.
You might be right there; the "Six Divisions" were mostly (originally) people from the alti boluk (Palace School).
I have to admit that I was actually a bit sad that I got a "Chivalrous Knight" from completing jihad. Could I not get a "Ferocious Ghazi" or a "Loyal Bey" or something like that. At least I can be happy with the Swordbearer (even if I have to pretend it is silahdar.
It seems the theologian HQ easily appears in Rheims (where the HRE emperrors were crowned) or in Paris and London gets merchant HQ. I am talking only about the HQ guilds.
You might be right there; the "Six Divisions" were mostly (originally) people from the alti boluk (Palace School).
I have to admit that I was actually a bit sad that I got a "Chivalrous Knight" from completing jihad. Could I not get a "Ferocious Ghazi" or a "Loyal Bey" or something like that. At least I can be happy with the Swordbearer (even if I have to pretend it is silahdar.
Impressive. You know your stuff. :2thumbsup:
It would have been awesome to see Muslim equivalents, yes. It would add a lot more variety and probably would be very educational for most. The icons should change as well. That would be ideal.
I also suggested that in 2003, Silahtar as a unit. I'm very happy with the Turk lineup though, specially the cavalry. They did a good job!
:beam:
Haudegen
12-03-2006, 13:02
If you crack open the game files you will see that Toledo has an increased chance of being offered a swordsmith's guild, so yes. Most guilds have 'favored' cities.
Wow, interesting stuff. Which file is it?
FactionHeir
12-03-2006, 13:09
I think something is wrong with guilds.
I played both English and Milan long campaigns (up to turn 75 as at that time I'd have conquered just about everything and there was no point in continuing) and I have never been offered following guilds:
Theologician's
Mason's
Woodsmen
Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I can't figure out why I never get those.
I pump out massive amounts of priests in all regions to root out heresy, especially in the holy land, and I do have quite a few cities/castles without any guilds which are producing priests.
I build something in every town/castle nearly every turn (as much as cash allows)
I trained massive amounts of longbowmen as the English.
So what gives?
Also, the descripts for Mason and Explorer seem a bit off from what the in-game descript says anyway. Mason in game only seem to give access to units but doesn't give boni (at least not listed) and Explorer will give you a chance of getting the intrepid explorer retinue for a general stayin in the town (if he hasn't too many retinues already)
PseRamesses
12-03-2006, 13:34
Something that seems to work rather well for me is to produce certain agents, units in certain cities. This behaviour generally produces the "right" guild in the "right" city.
As Spain I like to have the Thieves G in Leon, Ass.G in Zaragoza, Theo.G in Valencia, Explorers G i Lisbon etc etc so consequently I build each respective unit in theese cities. Seems to work in 8 out of 10 offered guilds. I´ve also applied this playing English, Byzantine, Fatmids and Turks and it seems to work well there too although playing the Turks/ Fatmids I usually have many settlements so I´ve to pass on more offered guilds.
FactionHeir
12-03-2006, 13:52
As a follow up to my previous post, why do people here seem to want the templar's guild and not the hospitaller's guild? IMO the Hospitaller's guild gives more benefits for the same unit.
Beefeater
12-03-2006, 15:43
FactionHeir - At a guess, partly because the Templars are so iconic with their blood red crosses on white shields, the faint whiff of conspiracy theory, and their inclusion in so many medieval stories (blame Sir Walter Scott), and partly because they seem to be harder to get than the Hospitallers.
therother
12-04-2006, 21:59
Epistolary Richard has released (with CA's permission) the data text files: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=73971
export_descr_guilds.txt would seem to have all the various guild triggers.
I like a lot the Guilds. It creates specialised towns.
The Explorers Guild is the one, which puzzles me. I captured Explorer Headquoters in Florence from Milan as Venice. It doesn't offer retraining. The only benefit I noticed from it is that some of my generals will rarely acquire an explorer advisor +15% movement. I expected that the individual units or ships produced there will have have better movement, but they don't.
I put in 6 generals and after about 10 turns 2 of them got an explorer advisor +15% movement. Unfortunatly these generals were the old grand fathers and the explorer advisors are not trasferable.
Trithemius
12-04-2006, 23:46
Epistolary Richard has released (with CA's permission) the data text files: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=73971
export_descr_guilds.txt would seem to have all the various guild triggers.
Cheers therother.
Epistolary Richard has released (with CA's permission) the data text files: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=73971
export_descr_guilds.txt would seem to have all the various guild triggers.
THANK YOU for the heads up !:2thumbsup:
Wow ! explorer's guild has really high overall probability, you could get it in every single city just by doing nothing...lol !
Which file has the bonus which the guilds offer ?
Trithemius
12-05-2006, 10:29
Looks like the only unit that improves the likelihood of getting a Swordsmith's Guild for the Turks is Hashishim. That is a bit of a pain...
You sure ? This is gonna cost me a bundle...
Daveybaby
12-05-2006, 14:45
I have never been offered following guilds:
Theologician's
Mason's
Woodsmen
Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I can't figure out why I never get those.
I've had theologians and woodsmans as english. I found that if you specialise a region to produce one thing, e.g. archers in nottingham, and priests in york, and then produce all (or at least most) of your archers in nottingham, and most of your priests in york, you will get offered a woodsmans guild in nottingham, and a theologians guild in york once they grow to the required size (size 3 iirc).
Dont forget you can only have 1 guild per region. If all of yours have guilds then you wont get offered any others (other than upgrades for existing ones). So if the first guild you get offered in that region isnt the desired type, then keep rejecting until you get offered the type you want.
I pump out massive amounts of priests in all regions to root out heresy, especially in the holy land, and I do have quite a few cities/castles without any guilds which are producing priests.
Thats probably where youre going wrong - pump all of your priests from the same region, and that region will get offered the guild. If you do 1 priest from each region, no one region will get noticed for producing priests. Just remember it's what the *region* produces thats important, not your faction as a whole.
After delving around in the data files Ca Oz released, it looks like you get an equa change of getting a Templar and Hospitallers Guild after doing a Crusade, but you also get an increased probability of getting a Templar Guild offer if you have a general in a city and he has more than 4 chivalry.
As Spain I have twice gotten missions from the explorers guild to take a city in France with a promise of them being very happy with me and giving me gold and a penalty of them not being happy with me, both came after I got the explorer HQ. So apparently guilds can like or dislike you as well.
The explorer's guild gave me a mission to take Dublin yesterday. I am Spain, and I am not nor have I ever been at war with the Scots who are a catholic faction in good standing.
So, this is a fairly significant request in my mind and it would be nice to know what cost/benefit it might have.
Daveybaby
12-05-2006, 17:27
Looking at export_descr_guilds.txt, it seems that failing a guild mission merely reduces your standing with that guild, which in turn means youve got further to go before you get the next guild upgrade.
Actually that doc pretty much describes everything guilds do, and everything you need to do to get them. It seems like there is both a regional score *and* a faction score.
Each guild has 3 levels, and you need scores of 100, 250 and 500 to get each level. Each 'thing' you can do to curry (or lose) favour with a guild adds to both the regions score and your faction's score. For example:
Destroying a guild:
-100 for the settlement's score (for that guild type)
-20 for the factions score (for that guild type)
Settlement upgraded:
+10 for the factions score (for ALL guilds)
Building a stone wall:
+10 for the settlements score (for mason's guild)
+2 for the factions score (for mason's guild)
etc etc.
Can someone help me ? I think I'm having an issue getting the Merchant's Guild. It's 1155 and I've built insane amounts of bazaars and merchant ports everywhere. I've focused merchant recruitment out of Antakya (Antioch), and I have surely produced well over 20-25 merchants from this city.
I'm still not getting the option for merchant's guild in Antakya.
I am however getting an offer for Theoligian's Guild repeatedly although I never recruited a single Imam in Antakya.
That is odd... I have been spamming merchants from all over and I have been swamped in offers from the Merchants. In fact I turned down the offer for an HQ in Vienna (the tradebenefit would be too low there), so I'm wondering if I should destroy the Master Merchant in Vienna so I could get an HQ in another place.
But also remember that merchants winning and losing their fights will affect the guild. So make sure you win the duels a lot.
I've won about 75K - 100K in duels in 176 turns. I train 2-3 to 10 and then send them slaughtering the others. I also run away real fast if I see a higher merchant coming (for my lower ones that is). So the balance is cetainly overwhelming, in my favor.
I can't build any more merchants, am at agent limit. Bugged ?
I can't build any more merchants, am at agent limit. Bugged ?
My sense is that the number of merchants you can have is a function of the number of markets you have. Probably one-to-one.
I'm pretty sure higher level merchants enable a bigger pool. At any rate, I never seem to have problems with getting merchant's guilds.
Very silly question but just a sanity check. Does the settlement already have some guild in place? That's the only reason I can think of why you don't get an offer.
Bob the Insane
12-15-2006, 17:24
so I'm wondering if I should destroy the Master Merchant in Vienna so I could get an HQ in another place.
Maybe...
It is only a -20 to score for other settlements...
Yeah the agent limit is tied to the number of markets, each level giving one more agent, I think.
There is no other guild at that settlement.
IIRC there was none when I conquered. If there was it must have been a Thieves guild (so many of those all over the place), which I destroyed.
Kraxis yeah I would destroy it and wait for one at my preferred location.
I came to that conclusion myself... But it makes no difference now, I'm starting a new campaign as soon as I can figure out how to enable a -show_err line along with the batchfile for the mod I'm making (basically a trait/ancilliary/unit fixer).
Woohooo... Got it working. Now I am almost rid of most of the really annoying vices. They will still be there to annoy me, but no longer will all generals have Bad Taxman and Royally Extravagant. And it should be possible to get the Good (admin, taxman, farmer, miner ect) as well.
In the coming days I will try to enable some of the cooler ancilliaries (custom armour, ornate armour, bodyguard and alod of others) and try to kickstart the princess starter traits that simply haven't got a trigger.
But damn I was just off topic there.
I'm still not getting the darn merchants' guild in Antioch, or anywhere else. I've done ALL the trade buildings (wharfs and markets) and tained about 25 merchants from there.
Also I have trained about 60 spies from Damascus, but still no Thieves guild.
:help:
Can Byzantium get guilds?
:laugh4: Nope, all factions except for byzantium.
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