View Full Version : Germans leaving Germany, for better opporunities?
An interesting article I found. Can any of our German partons shed any more light onto the story.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,446045,00.html
Seamus Fermanagh
11-20-2006, 13:55
Interesting piece. I too would like to hear a more "local" commentary.
King Henry V
11-20-2006, 18:22
Leaving some grim Eastern German town for the picturesque Salzkammergut in Austria is something completely understandable.
Known for some time already I think and I too would not object getting a job in another country, but I will finish studying first.
I don't have financial problems yet since I am still living from state money but in future this might change and if there is no decent job for me here, I will look for one abroad, our government can then look how they get along without me...:juggle2:
Britain is full of young European people. Quite useful as British people all seem to have gone to Europe...
The allure of proper weather and cheap alcohol is just too much.
Adrian II
11-20-2006, 20:53
According to the Statistisches Bundesamt (Federal Bureau of Statistics) last year's 145.000 emigrants mainly went to the following countries:
9,9 % to Switzerland
9,4 % to the US
6,4 % to Austria and Poland
6,2 % to the UK
followed by Spain, France and ItalySeems to be mostly inner-European migration, something we (through 'Brussels') have encouraged for decades. The Bureau provides no data on brain drain, which would be interesting.
According to the Statistisches Bundesamt (Federal Bureau of Statistics) last year's 145.000 emigrants mainly went to the following countries:
9,9 % to Switzerland
9,4 % to the US
6,4 % to Austria and Poland
6,2 % to the UK
followed by Spain, France and ItalySeems to be mostly inner-European migration, something we (through 'Brussels') have encouraged for decades. The Bureau provides no data on brain drain, which would be interesting.
Well except Switzerland and the USA aren't in the EU, so in fact mostly it seems to be heading outwards...
Adrian II
11-20-2006, 21:20
Well except Switzerland and the USA aren't in the EU, so in fact mostly it seems to be heading outwards...Switzerland is a European country and the country most closely associated with the EU; in fact through bilateral agreements it is practically a member of the common market.
EDIT
German emigration stood at 140.000 in 1995, this was followed by a dip, and now it is back up to 144.000 a year. This is no big deal at all unless there is really a brain drain as the article suggests. But a brain drain is a net result of emigration and immigration numbers, weighed by labour qualifications and such. The article does not tell how much 'brains' enters the country every year. What I do know is that Germany is attracting foreing IT engineers and scientists rather successfully.
As for the motives of the emigrants, it is to be expected that they are deeply dissatisfied with their fate in Germany since it takes some conviction to leave your country of birth and settle elsewhere. Some will always regret their move and remigrate after a couple of years.
What I do know is that Germany is attracting foreing IT engineers and scientists rather successfully.
And sine they can offer their work cheaper, ours are unemployed, I heard about around 10000 unemployed programmers in the region of Aachen but it was just talk from people I think, no sources(which doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong).
Evil_Maniac From Mars
11-20-2006, 23:53
I hate to see it, but it's true. I don't think it's as bad as the article makes it out to be, at least not locally, but something needs to be done.
Don't know about today, but my paternal ancestors left the tiny village of Schörnsheim to come to central Pennsylvania in 1748, seeking the better life promised by William Penn's advertisements in Europe.
People have been leaving one place for another seeking better opportunities for as long as there have been people. :wink:
I left Ireland after my IT degree and moved to Berlin. The reason for that tho was because my girlfriend studies in Frankfurt an der Oder. I took me a month to land an IT job and I couldn't speak German. One of my Colleagues wants to move to either the US or Switzerland. Switzerland because you make good money and it nice. The US because you could make more money and he just likes the idea of America.
Interesting - so from what I have read so far in response to the article is that there is some basic truth in it, but some of the factors on the issue are left out and others are inflated.
My main concern with the article was the opening three paragraphs.
Faced with poor job prospects, high taxes and an intrusive bureaucracy, more and more Germans are choosing to emigrate. Most of those who leave, though, are highly qualified -- which could mean devastating economic consequences.
They are fed up, truly fed up. Fed up with the constant bickering over the costs of wage benefits, social reforms, elimination of subsidies, store closing hours and all the other symbols of a country stuck in bureaucratic and legislative gridlock.
They are tired of living in country where landing a job is like playing the lottery, a country where not even half of citizens live from gainful employment and a country in which even academics in their mid-40s are already considered problem cases when it comes to job placement. In other words, they are fed up with living in a country where all opportunities already seem to be taken: opportunities to succeed in one's career, to own property and to achieve prosperity.
The premise of the leading paragraphs paint a bleak picture of the German political scene and economic future of Germany. How accurate is this description?
Blodrast
11-21-2006, 20:23
I will subscribe to the store closing hours issue - I don't know enough about the others. But, man, I've never seen anything like that! Everything is pretty much closed on weekends, and most stores close at ridiculous hours during the week - when on earth is one supposed to do one's shopping ?!
Ser Clegane
11-21-2006, 21:29
The premise of the leading paragraphs paint a bleak picture of the German political scene and economic future of Germany. How accurate is this description?
The description might be somewhat over the top but the general gist is correct, IMHO
One year after the last elections many people are very disappointed by what the "grand coalition" achieved. There was some hope that the solid majority of the current administration would lead to some bolder approaches to the problems that slowly but steadily accumulated in our country, however, what we have seen so far rather seems to be the same old same that we have seen in the past 15 years.
Every attempt of reformation ends up in agreeing on the least common denominator without hurting anybody.
Add to that the fact that the deterioriation of e.g. social systems (and other aspects) happens so slowly that nobody feels compelled to attempt more than just patchwork instead of risking some more holistic restructuring.
Of course we Germans also love to complain about everything (sometimes its actually borderline absurd and I am probably no exception there) and from an outside perspective things look probably better than we claim them to be ~;)
I assume that things will have to get even bleaker before we are finally ready to face some change...
Nice article, BTW - read it a couple of weeks ago in the print version of the magazine.
Nice article, BTW - read it a couple of weeks ago in the print version of the magazine.
I have heard that the magizine itself is of excellent quality with above average reporting. Finally glad to see an English version so I could find out myself.
Needless to say I found what has been reported so far is of excellent quality.
Ser Clegane
11-21-2006, 21:55
I have heard that the magizine itself is of excellent quality with above average reporting. Finally glad to see an English version so I could find out myself.
The magazine is quite an institution in Germany and has the (im my opinion well-deserved) reputation to be the clearly best news magazine in Germany.
It has the image of being at least somewhat left-leaning, which is probably true to a certain extent, however, my personal view is that they are generally very critical (but usually in a very objective and well-infomred way), no matter what the political leaning of the "victim" is - the image of being left-leaning is certainly partly based on the fact that Germany had a conservative government for a long period after the war and that this naturally led to a more critical view on conservatives in the first decades of "Der Spiegel"
Byzantine Prince
11-22-2006, 01:59
Doesn't Eastern Germany have HUGE unemployment issues in all almost all sectors?
What's so new about this ? They's been leaving since the 20's oder nicht ?
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