Military service - anyone done it?

[Lorenzo_H]

I am heavily considering trying to join the military as an officer. If there is anyone out there who has some advice for me regarding this, or on what the army is like?

I will be eligible to join the US, British or Italian forces, but most likely I would join the US, second option UK.

I would want to join not as a last resort, but mainly for the experience, and also to serve my country (whichever I choose in this case:beam:).


On the same topic, I found this article about possible US conscription: http://edition.cnn.com/2006/US/11/20/selective.service/index.html

[KrooK]

Ask Wolf_Kanuni - he was in turkish army.

[Redleg]

I am heavily considering trying to join the military as an officer. If there is anyone out there who has some advice for me regarding this, or on what the army is like?

I will be eligible to join the US, British or Italian forces, but most likely I would join the US, second option UK.

I would want to join not as a last resort, but mainly for the experience, and also to serve my country (whichever I choose in this case:beam:).

Depending on what you want to do - the best way to get a commission is to use the ROTC program at any university in the United States. Direct commissions are possible in selected fields of study, but for the most part those commissions are done in the medicial fields. If you have a college degree alreadly you will need to talk to a military recruiter to see about Officer Canidate School. If you go that route, make sure OCS is in the enlistment contract before you sign.

But the easiest route to get an active duty commission is one of the Service Schools. The ROTC route will require a board that meets every year that selects among all the soon to be commissioned ROTC students which officers will go active duty. Some years the percentage of newly commissioned officers for active duty is extremely high, some years not. For instance my selection board only 70% of all eligable ROTC students were selected for active duty. But I would image now with the mission cycles that selection rate his higher. IF you go ROTC the best way to ensure your selected for active duty is to apply and get one of the ROTC scholarships available when you speak with the ROTC recruiter at the university or college that you attend in the state.

Branch of duty - for active duty is also for the most part a selection process. WIthin the ROTC method you get to chose 5 branches in order of preference, for instance my first choice was the Armor Branch, and my second choice was Field Artillery. I was initially selected for my first choice of Armor, but because of several reasons I did not graduate from college in time to pick up that branch, I was re-boarded and picked up my second preference of Field Artillery.

[Lorenzo_H]

Oh, and are you assigned to the regiment for your region?

[Redleg]

Oh, and are you assigned to the regiment for your region?

Not in the United States. As an officer you will be assigned to mulitiple units during your time in the military. About every 3-4 years you can expect to move. Because of the way the service schools are geared to help with career progression.

2nd Lt - Officer Basic for your branch
Captain - Officer Advance course for your branch
Major - CGCS

Those three schools basically cover your first 10-12 years in the United States Army. Each school is considered a Change in Station move which means the unit you were serving with prior to the school loses you for the school, and you get re-assigned to a new unit while at the school.

[Lorenzo_H]

Ok, not the same as here in Britain then.

Another few questions:

What does the fitness test entail?

Also, how many years is one full term? Here in UK its 6 years (enlisted).

[Redleg]

Ok, not the same as here in Britain then.

Another few questions:

What does the fitness test entail?

Also, how many years is one full term? Here in UK its 6 years (enlisted).

Its the same as the enlisted soldiers - Officers are expected to score in the 80-90% range of each catergory - but its not an offical policy, just kind of inherient in the chain of command. Anything below 70% will definitily be frowned upon. Officers are expected to lead by examble in all things to include physical fitness.

The test is broken down by age - so one would have to look at the scale to understand the scoring system, but it basically consisted (during my time in service) Minimum passing scores were 40 pushup, 40 situps, in two minutes, and run the two miles in 16:15. Getting the minimum score in each area was frowned upon - so you will want to train to maintain in the above 60 in each area and below 14 minutes in the run.

Most contracts read 4 years active 4 years inactive duty for a total of eight years. Once selected for active duty its not hard to stay in, if you make the promotion sequences on time. 1st Lt is basically an automatic promotion unless you have a major screwup. All other ranks have a promotion board. For instance the captain board should happen between your 3rd and 4th year. If you are selected you get an indefinite status which basically allows you to stay in until the next selection board or your resignation from service. The process is more detailed then that - but that is the gest of it.

[Lorenzo_H]

I would ideally like to join for the shortest length of time possible.

Also, what are the minimum requirements for asthma and eyesight? Since my eyesight is pretty bad, I suspect I would have to have laser eye surgery to be accepted. The UK military have a policy that you must be able to shoot to a certain accuracy at 100 meters. I only have slight asthma, and the UK military will accept you if you have not been on any medication for the last 6 years (on the day of your joining).

[Redleg]

I would ideally like to join for the shortest length of time possible.

Also, what are the minimum requirements for asthma and eyesight? Since my eyesight is pretty bad, I suspect I would have to have laser eye surgery to be accepted. The UK military have a policy that you must be able to shoot to a certain accuracy at 100 meters. I only have slight asthma, and the UK military will accept you if you have not been on any medication for the last 6 years (on the day of your joining).

Asthma is generally a problem for enlisting into the United States Military. for the answer to that question you will definitely have to talk to a recruiter.

Eyesight as long as it is correctable should not be a problem. My vision is terrible (I have to wear glasses or contact lenses) and I was allowed in. Vision was 20/70 when I took my entrance physical.

[CrossLOPER]

I would ideally like to join for the shortest length of time possible.

Also, what are the minimum requirements for asthma and eyesight? Since my eyesight is pretty bad, I suspect I would have to have laser eye surgery to be accepted. The UK military have a policy that you must be able to shoot to a certain accuracy at 100 meters. I only have slight asthma, and the UK military will accept you if you have not been on any medication for the last 6 years (on the day of your joining).
I believe that your eyesight will be of less concern than your asthma. You can have the best shape and condition in the world, you're not going to be up for long if you can't breath (I realize you know this, but still.). In the Russian army, such things will leave you in a very none active position, which means that you will probably never be called. I imagine it is a similar case in the US.

[Lorenzo_H]

hmmm...

I dont know really, since asthma is a condition which is improvable by continous cardiovascular exercise. And yeah that confirms what I already suspected; that eyesight is not much of a problem, where as asthma may be.

[BDC]

From my limited experience here, asthma is a big issue joining the British forces. Especially now everything happens in dusty, dry deserts.

[Del Arroyo]

If you just want a little taste of the army, forget officer. Sign a two-year contract with the infantry, get in, get your ass kicked, get your kicks, and get out. If you're not sure whether your asthma is a problem, it isn't-- just don't mention it and you'll never have to worry about it.

As far as your eyesight, as long as it's correctable they'll just hook you up with a sturdy pair of BCGs just to make you look sexy, and you can fall in line and get scuffed up just like everybody else. That's what the army is really about, at least in my conception. I know right now you're probably thinking you'd like to do something sophisticated or special in the military, and that is exactly the kind of thinking which will trick you into signing a contract for a job that is totally gay. You can't do anything really cool in the army unless you're prepared to commit at least five or ten years, if you want in for some quick adventure or to just do your part I recommend something like Infantry, which, while stupid, is at least fun.

My opinion of course.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

My Dad did the ROTC Program for a few years, but could not join off the bat because he has a clef planet (mis spell it), but the retruict would try to get him in, but my dad decline.

I might also join the Mitilary to serve my country, but I proably go to West Point first, if I could..

[Lorenzo_H]

If you just want a little taste of the army, forget officer. Sign a two-year contract with the infantry, get in, get your ass kicked, get your kicks, and get out. If you're not sure whether your asthma is a problem, it isn't-- just don't mention it and you'll never have to worry about it.

As far as your eyesight, as long as it's correctable they'll just hook you up with a sturdy pair of BCGs just to make you look sexy, and you can fall in line and get scuffed up just like everybody else. That's what the army is really about, at least in my conception. I know right now you're probably thinking you'd like to do something sophisticated or special in the military, and that is exactly the kind of thinking which will trick you into signing a contract for a job that is totally gay. You can't do anything really cool in the army unless you're prepared to commit at least five or ten years, if you want in for some quick adventure or to just do your part I recommend something like Infantry, which, while stupid, is at least fun.

My opinion of course.
Well now, thats exactly what i was thinking of doing. The infantry, but as an officer, because the experience is good for life.

[Kralizec]

Eyesight as long as it is correctable should not be a problem. My vision is terrible (I have to wear glasses or contact lenses) and I was allowed in. Vision was 20/70 when I took my entrance physical.

I actually wanted to join my country's air force really badly when I was a kid- but my crappy eyes pretty much ruled that out since my 12th or so.

-3.50 , -4.00 and partial colour blindness

[Redleg]

I actually wanted to join my country's air force really badly when I was a kid- but my crappy eyes pretty much ruled that out since my 12th or so.

-3.50 , -4.00 and partial colour blindness

When I first looked into the military - I initially looked at the Airforce, even applied and got a nomination but not an appointment. But when the finally told me what types of jobs I could have with my eyesight - I chose the Army.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Air Force is a hard branch to get into IMO. Doesn't it cost alot to train 1 pilot??

[IrishArmenian]

Make sure to do it for you. It is your choice. I have seen many forced into it and it sours them. Me, I was a rare case.
I honestly think the Army is the best way to go, and that is where I am today. Reasons why:
A) I can trust my life to my mates, but not to a machine (Ship/Airplane)
B) I already had years of experience shooting a Dragunov SVD beforehand. If you put this on your application for other countries though, they might think your'e crazy. If you can shoot any gun with skill, it is a plus.
C) I couldn't do much else.
As long as you do some sort of exercise for 3 hours a day, fitness test should be good. The test is not a big deal: the training is. I've studied videos of how U.S./U.K. armies train and they will kick you in the arse. (So will we with their techniques!)
If really committed, apply to a Military College. I was actually close to going, but in the end I had to turn them down, so I will stay an NCO. Officers can and will get shuffled around though. This is a tough decision. Really think it through and then commit with all you have to the decision you make. Don't get caught waffling or you will regret it.

[IRONxMortlock]

I am heavily considering trying to join the military as an officer. If there is anyone out there who has some advice for me regarding this, or on what the army is like?

I will be eligible to join the US, British or Italian forces, but most likely I would join the US, second option UK.

I would want to join not as a last resort, but mainly for the experience, and also to serve my country (whichever I choose in this case:beam:).


On the same topic, I found this article about possible US conscription: http://edition.cnn.com/2006/US/11/20/selective.service/index.html

It sounds like you are in the same position as I was once diablodelmar. When I graduated high school I went straight to ADFA (Australia Defence Force Academy) to start my career as an Army officer. It is a pretty tough place (especially in the first year) but I did learn a lot. However I don't believe these kinds of academies make the best officers. I'm now firmly of the opinion that all cadet officers should firstly have to serve some time in the enlisted ranks. But back to you。

We were pushed to extreme limits of physical endurance at the academy and needed to be in great physical shape. I think your asthma may disqualify you but you should really check with the recruiters. Also think of your own safety here. Having an asthma attack when you find yourself isolated on an exercise could be fatal and not being able to breath and collapsing during 20km route-march with full gear isn’t going to much fun either!

The benefits

They pay for your school and you’re guaranteed a job when you graduate.
You get to do some really amazing things.
You become stronger and fitter than you ever thought possible.
You learn how to be strong and to persevere.
You develop great self-discipline and control.

The Downside

You give away your youth to the service. You don’t get a chance to do a lot of the kinds of things civilian students do at your age. This is by far the biggest downside to joining the military during your late teens/early 20’s IMO.
You become a killer. Make no mistake, the military exists for one purpose – to project its nation’s power by killing its enemies and it does a good job of making sure you will not hesitate to kill or to order killings when told.
You may be violently killed.

For me, leaving the army was difficult but it was also the best decision I ever made. The army really restricts what you can and can’t do with your life. Since leaving I have had so many better opportunities and experiences. If I were to live this life again I wouldn’t join the military but I don’t regret my experience there. It is now an important part of the person I am today.

My advice to you is to not join now. Not having to pay for school makes it very tempting but don’t do it! Fund yourself through school even if you have to work 3 jobs to do it. This will develop as much character as anything you do in the army. You will enjoy your youth as you should and if you’re still interested once you graduate, then consider signing up. The chances are you will then be a much better officer.

[Ice]

It sounds like you are in the same position as I was once diablodelmar. When I graduated high school I went straight to ADFA (Australia Defence Force Academy) to start my career as an Army officer. It is a pretty tough place (especially in the first year) but I did learn a lot. However I don't believe these kinds of academies make the best officers. I'm now firmly of the opinion that all cadet officers should firstly have to serve some time in the enlisted ranks. But back to you。

We were pushed to extreme limits of physical endurance at the academy and needed to be in great physical shape. I think your asthma may disqualify you but you should really check with the recruiters. Also think of your own safety here. Having an asthma attack when you find yourself isolated on an exercise could be fatal and not being able to breath and collapsing during 20km route-march with full gear isn’t going to much fun either!

The benefits

They pay for your school and you’re guaranteed a job when you graduate.
You get to do some really amazing things.
You become stronger and fitter than you ever thought possible.
You learn how to be strong and to persevere.
You develop great self-discipline and control.

The Downside

You give away your youth to the service. You don’t get a chance to do a lot of the kinds of things civilian students do at your age. This is by far the biggest downside to joining the military during your late teens/early 20’s IMO.
You become a killer. Make no mistake, the military exists for one purpose – to project its nation’s power by killing its enemies and it does a good job of making sure you will not hesitate to kill or to order killings when told.
You may be violently killed.

For me, leaving the army was difficult but it was also the best decision I ever made. The army really restricts what you can and can’t do with your life. Since leaving I have had so many better opportunities and experiences. If I were to live this life again I wouldn’t join the military but I don’t regret my experience there. It is now an important part of the person I am today.

My advice to you is to not join now. Not having to pay for school makes it very tempting but don’t do it! Fund yourself through school even if you have to work 3 jobs to do it. This will develop as much character as anything you do in the army. You will enjoy your youth as you should and if you’re still interested once you graduate, then consider signing up. The chances are you will then be a much better officer.

Wow, Mortlock, that's some pretty good advice. :yes:

I was considering the doing the same thing.

[Shahed]

hmmm...

I dont know really, since asthma is a condition which is improvable by continous cardiovascular exercise. And yeah that confirms what I already suspected; that eyesight is not much of a problem, where as asthma may be.

The only time your asthma will be a problem is when you have'nt slept for 2 days, have'nt eaten for 2 days and are being shot at. Then your asthma might be a problem but otherwise if you start working on it already, probably won't be a problem. You'll have to build your endurance before you enlist. In one year your condition could be good enough to survive 2-4 days of extreme hardship without any attack. Anything more and it could be an issue, for you. It could be life threatening, under certain conditions.

I'm not recommending you don't disclose just telling you how it could work. Then again the US military has air conditioning, heating and all that :D so you may end up being more comfortable than not. No such comfort for most of the world's soldiers.

.. and listen to Mortlock he's on the ball.

There are many other things you can do which wil build you, other than the military.

[Strike For The South]

I'm toying with the idea of becoming part of the U.S.M.C after H.S:2thumbsup:

[Samurai Waki]

ultimately, if its the nitty gritty you want the USMC is the branch to join. Not too mention the superb training :yes: If I was eligible to join I would join the USMC...but I can't because of a torn knee ligament.

EDIT: Oh, and I've got two kids coming my way in 3 months.

[Lorenzo_H]

It sounds like you are in the same position as I was once diablodelmar. When I graduated high school I went straight to ADFA (Australia Defence Force Academy) to start my career as an Army officer. It is a pretty tough place (especially in the first year) but I did learn a lot. However I don't believe these kinds of academies make the best officers. I'm now firmly of the opinion that all cadet officers should firstly have to serve some time in the enlisted ranks. But back to you。

We were pushed to extreme limits of physical endurance at the academy and needed to be in great physical shape. I think your asthma may disqualify you but you should really check with the recruiters. Also think of your own safety here. Having an asthma attack when you find yourself isolated on an exercise could be fatal and not being able to breath and collapsing during 20km route-march with full gear isn’t going to much fun either!

The benefits

They pay for your school and you’re guaranteed a job when you graduate.
You get to do some really amazing things.
You become stronger and fitter than you ever thought possible.
You learn how to be strong and to persevere.
You develop great self-discipline and control.

The Downside

You give away your youth to the service. You don’t get a chance to do a lot of the kinds of things civilian students do at your age. This is by far the biggest downside to joining the military during your late teens/early 20’s IMO.
You become a killer. Make no mistake, the military exists for one purpose – to project its nation’s power by killing its enemies and it does a good job of making sure you will not hesitate to kill or to order killings when told.
You may be violently killed.

For me, leaving the army was difficult but it was also the best decision I ever made. The army really restricts what you can and can’t do with your life. Since leaving I have had so many better opportunities and experiences. If I were to live this life again I wouldn’t join the military but I don’t regret my experience there. It is now an important part of the person I am today.

My advice to you is to not join now. Not having to pay for school makes it very tempting but don’t do it! Fund yourself through school even if you have to work 3 jobs to do it. This will develop as much character as anything you do in the army. You will enjoy your youth as you should and if you’re still interested once you graduate, then consider signing up. The chances are you will then be a much better officer.
Wow thanks thats some good info.

A few more questions:

What is the emotional and mental tolls (now that we've decided your body has to be in top shape)?

Being killed - what are the chances? I am not a coward, nor would I be terribly sorry about my life if I were KIA, but its obviously something I would like to avoid.

What are the attitudes like in the army? I once did a few days at Warcop (anyone from the British Army will know what it is - its a huge training ground in Cumbria or Lancashire) with the CCF (combined cadet force - I was with the army cadets at the time) and there seemed to be a lot of pessimism which is what one could expect I guess.

[Sigurd]

Wow thanks thats some good info.

A few more questions:

What is the emotional and mental tolls (now that we've decided your body has to be in top shape)?

Being killed - what are the chances? I am not a coward, nor would I be terribly sorry about my life if I were KIA, but its obviously something I would like to avoid.

What are the attitudes like in the army? I once did a few days at Warcop (anyone from the British Army will know what it is - its a huge training ground in Cumbria or Lancashire) with the CCF (combined cadet force - I was with the army cadets at the time) and there seemed to be a lot of pessimism which is what one could expect I guess.
I am a navy vet.
Doing a military service is one of the Norwegian male’s rites. To become a male adult, a military service is necessary. It has been like this for decades.
I don’t know much about the US, UK or Italian military and can only write based on my own experiences in the Royal Norwegian Navy.
You ask about emotional and mental expenses. I believe that you will survive anything they will throw at you as long as you do not experience war or war conditions.
The goal of the military is to tear you down and build you up again. It will happen make no mistake of that. Some don’t make it trough boot camp and they probably didn’t want to be there in the first place.
Personally I though boot-camp was a stroll in a park. That could be one of the reasons they sent me to non-commissioned officer training. Now, that was NOT a stroll in a park.
I survived and would become a drill instructor as the rest of the survivors. I did however not fancy yelling at stubborn 19 year olds all day. I applied to a military school and studied communication. I became a leader of a MSO somewhere far north. I had many other interesting assignments and left the military to do a masters degree in information technology.

To be a non-commissioned officer and later a commissioned one, you need to be mentally strong. If you are not, you will be sifted out during training anyway. There is a lot to gain from an experience like this and I don’t agree with the poster that said you loose much of your early adulthood. It is a great improvement on your character and self discipline. I studied with many that had not done their military service and I’ll tell you.. They were wasting their early adulthood on silly things like partying and the like, flunking courses left and right.
Looking back, my military career put many years of experience on my back and has helped me in my IT career and being a father. Besides you can have as much fun as a soldier on leave as any long haired and bearded punks. The chicks dig uniforms especially if you have a gold stripe or more (navy distinctions).

[Shahed]

True that. It can build you but it's also true that it's not the only way to build. Also true that most young adults waste their early adulthood anyway. So you would be far ahead in character development vs that peer group.

[BDC]

You may be violently killed.

Best advice here yet...

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Chances are small BDC.. Defending your country is one of the best things you could do. Yes, you will be restricted on what you can/can't do,and may be killed,but it gives you the expericene in life though..

[Lorenzo_H]

hehe I have to sit back and laugh at where this convo has gone;

"...oh yes and there is a chance you may end up dead - but either way you get some good life experience"

yeah I agree getting killed is good experience!

Another question.

How does one get into the paras, namely the 173rd para regiment, which at a glance attracts me very much.

[IRONxMortlock]

Wow thanks thats some good info.

A few more questions:

What is the emotional and mental tolls (now that we've decided your body has to be in top shape)?

I would rank these trials tougher than any physical demand placed on you while training. The idea is to break you down and turn you into something useful to the army. This is done using a variety of psychological techniques but mostly through methods passed down from person to person over decades.


Being killed - what are the chances? I am not a coward, nor would I be terribly sorry about my life if I were KIA, but its obviously something I would like to avoid.

I listed "being violently killed" as a downside not just for the obvious for also for the point that this isn't a matter of being a coward or not, it's about having the ability to choose what kind of cause you risk your life for. In the army you lose this choice (unless you become a criminal).

Honestly, the chances of being killed are very low at the moment and will depend on exactly what kind of job you end up with in the army and the kind of place you get sent to. It's not just being killed you need to be concerned about though. Think about losing a leg, maybe both. Consider if joining is worth risking your eye sight or your left hand. How about losing your mind? Many combat veterans experience severe traumatic stress, anxiety and depression disorders.


What are the attitudes like in the army? I once did a few days at Warcop (anyone from the British Army will know what it is - its a huge training ground in Cumbria or Lancashire) with the CCF (combined cadet force - I was with the army cadets at the time) and there seemed to be a lot of pessimism which is what one could expect I guess.

I can't really presume to talk for so many different people. The army is like any other large group of people; there are many different personalities and attitudes. Some are good, some not so good. On the whole though, my fellow cadets at ADFA were generally very intelligent, competitive and dedicated people. As an educational institution however I believe ADFA fails. I don't believe the military environment is conducive to the kinds of open-minded, free-thinking ideals that higher education is supposed to provide.

I think the military can be an excellent career path for the right individual. Just remember that there's no need to rush in and join. As I said earlier, I advise you to get a university education first and then look at what options are available to you in both military and civilian life.

[Lorenzo_H]

Well I shall certainly take the advice and get a degree before considering it again. Right now it appeals because
a) I want to do something exciting in my life and I don't want to spend all of it behind some office desk.
b) I think it would be a good thing to serve my country directly.
c) So far I like what I have seen.

I would only serve a maximum of 6 years, if I did join. Note I am still at high school, so I have a while yet until I make the decision.

[Del Arroyo]

Well, if you want to be an infantry officer, you should be six feet tall, bullet-proof, and ready to wrestle anyone to the ground and choke them out at the drop of a hat. If you want any respect, at least.

[Lorenzo_H]

ha ha ha you make me feel good because im 6 foot 3 already and I still have another 5 years to grow. As for bullet proof, sorry, not that good. BUT i can choke anyone out on account of my experienced martial arts background.