View Full Version : Come on CA - Gamedesign, programming or QA bug?
Callatian
11-21-2006, 21:45
I present you - The sheep’s: Also known as the “It’s raining men maneuver” sry I mean stones, arrows, cabbages, etc.
Just kill a bit their archery units with your besieged cavalry (they are the only ones who fire back) and then enjoy masacrating their army execution squadron style. You can get anything around any singeing army - they don't mind.
How could such a bug be slipped by the CA QA – someone from programming forgot to activate the cavalry aggressiveness it seems.
https://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/Cain2/sheeps.jpg
Pls. fix it in the next patch.
Thanks
I present you ... the “It’s raining men maneuver”
L M F A O
I shot some soda out my nose I laughed so hard at that one! Nominated for post of the year!
Callatian
11-21-2006, 21:55
I knew about the archers doing it "from the back" but it never crossed my mind that artillery can do it too - I mean the size and movement speed - maybe I was too busy modding - I bet you guys knew about the bug. This scene just upset me so much that I posted while playing.
Flavius Gonzo
11-21-2006, 22:03
Hilarious!!
I've never seen the passive bug that bad!
Its that bad with me every battle
Goofball
11-21-2006, 22:20
Sorry, I can't really tell from the screeny. What's going on?
He's moving ONLY his arty around the entire enemy army and it doesn't even react
Myrddraal
11-22-2006, 00:28
How can the beta testers possibly have missed this! The mind boggles...
They probably didn't. CA probably slipped in a last minute change that affected the AI in a totally unexpected way.
Callatian
11-22-2006, 00:47
How can the beta testers possibly have missed this! The mind boggles...
They were probably so used to play RTW that nobody actually fully checked the fact that only archers are active in a siege army when the human does a sally. I think they should have a meeting with their lead testers - this is a gameplay showstopper bug after all. I would have got my butt kicked really hard if I will have missed such a bug or played with the AI code - by this damageing the overall performance - and without proper backup testing.
This is something like a proximity issue attack activation - so they do not react to any projectiles thrown at them even at the most closest ranges ... it's like you are invisible for their melee troops. They only react to you if you engage their archers/troops in close hand-to-hand - but they go back in formation pretty fast.
Any enemy siege is now a good training time for your archers or catapults. Damn - it totally ruins the gameplay.
Can someone say passive ai bug?
How can the beta testers possibly have missed this! The mind boggles...
I doubt they did. Beta testers are by and large NOT mindless morons and script-monkeys, they are in general very perceptive and thorough folks. I happen to know a few personally. I still say all signs point to upper management pushing this out the door knowing what state it was in. The fact that a patch was announced on release day to me is just the final piece of the puzzle. Shame on them for doing so.
Callatian
11-22-2006, 01:01
Can someone say passive ai bug?
Not really passive - their archers AIs and artillery are pretty aggressive and fighting like crazy. Just the enemy AI melee and cavalry units react only in 2-3 meters - and only to your melee units.
Also the bug does not apply if you get reinforcements on them map or if the enemy is assaulting your city gates. That’s why they didn't see it. It is only a sally issue in my view. More testing will be needed - so since everyone is playing the game - try different sally combinations and see what is working and what not. A small help for CA QA - I think.
The beta-testers did catch the passive AI bug but by the time it was brought to the attention of CA the game already went gold. Per the words of one of the developers (Palamedes) in the official forums, this WILL be fixed in the upcoming patch.
So it's just a matter of finding ways to pass the time until the patch is released...
~:handball: :juggle:
The only good thing about this is that something will be done in a patch.
But does anyone have any tips for how to minimise "the passive AI bug" until then? When does it kick in? I've heard people say it's related to missile inferiority. Should you then just take, say, one missile unit per stack as I used to do with Romans in RTW/RTR/EB? (This might be ok, perhaps, as the French or some other continentals (Danes, HRE), with a token crossbow unit or two).
I am finding the AI often attacks my English army and then forms up just in range, to get shot to death by my 3-5 units of longbows until my arrows run dry. Not always - not with bridges or siege assaults - but more often than not in field battles. It's forgivable in a defence, when the AI is outnumbered - what's it going to do? (Think Harold at Hastings). But when it attacks me with more melee power, it's a major problem. I don't know if what I observe is actually a bug that will be fixed or whether it is related to this sally issue, but it seems relevant.
Cataphract_Of_The_City
11-22-2006, 04:08
Have you seen any difference in battles that the passive AI bug would not apply? Because I certainly haven't. Same thing as in RTW. Lack of cohesion, nothing even close to a battle plan and the AI certainly not using its advantages. Is anyone else seeing this? It is a major fun killer to realise on the first day that the game was like a mod for RTW.
Gray_Lensman
11-22-2006, 06:19
Much as it disappoints me that the game was released with this passive AI bug, I'm using the time to just get to know the other game features more, while waiting for the fix. I have to admit that excluding the passive AI bug, CA has done a reasonably fine job for the original release.
...But does anyone have any tips for how to minimise "the passive AI bug" until then? When does it kick in? I've heard people say it's related to missile inferiority. Should you then just take, say, one missile unit per stack as I used to do with Romans in RTW/RTR/EB? (This might be ok, perhaps, as the French or some other continentals (Danes, HRE), with a token crossbow unit or two)....
Yes, you can attack at the passive enemy army and have a look at the charging/engaging bug when half of your soldiers are picking flowers spread out at the back of the formation :wall:
Seriously, I don't know exactly when this one kicks in, but I've seen it much too often for my liking.
I've had the passive bug a couple of times when sallying out, but not always. It's true that of what I've seen of this game so far this is the only thing that qualifies right away as a bug : it can be reproduced and the game cannot possibly have been designed this way.
As a wake up call for the AI, I have found that the enemy troops react as soon as I bring my general outside the walls, or close enough to them. After that, battle can proceed pretty much as normal.
I think it's also very easy to fix, a simple trigger on the AI, as opposite to the vastly complex dynamics of pathfinding and charging in formation. So I'm confident this one is going to be fixed in the patch.
I think none of the testers was sick enough to try what you did with catapults however.
screwtype
11-22-2006, 08:43
How can the beta testers possibly have missed this! The mind boggles...
Because the game was rushed to market before it was finished, just like RTW...
AussieGiant
11-22-2006, 08:49
Because the game was rushed to market before it was finished, just like RTW...
That's a 10-4 rubbery ducky!!
There was not "missing" the problem issue:
There was a "Get it out now!!" issue:
Callatian
11-22-2006, 09:59
Because the game was rushed to market before it was finished, just like RTW...
I don't think so - such a bug should have been spotted immediately and if they would have know they could have fix it in a day. I also consider it to be a production problem - their lack of dread infront of sales. They were probably testing the effects or the arrows impacting on different parts of the formation - that’s why only melee troops are passive/sheep’s. I do remember them saying attack from the right, no shield ...bla, bla. So when they finished with their testing they didn't spotted that bad things were left behind in the AI's aggressiveness. They just forgot about it and the QA never tested that part again because they did it before and they were never fully notified.
econ21 the only workaround for this is to avoid exploiting it - be merciful ... I'm not sure how since the bug is present in most of your offensive battles and felt especially if the enemy does not have range units. Personally I can no longer play the game - I cannot abstain not to exploit the AI.
Yes, you can attack at the passive enemy army and have a look at the charging/engaging bug when half of your soldiers are picking flowers spread out at the back of the formation :wall:
Seriously, I don't know exactly when this one kicks in, but I've seen it much too often for my liking.
God, don't you people read the manuals??? :book:
Double/single click when in range of an enemy unit means "Stop and pick flowers to give to the nice men to your immediate front!" :wall: :wall:
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