View Full Version : Piety and the pope. And chivalry too.
It's bugged methinks.
Other than my starting family members, i never get any generals with more than 1 piety, despite having cathedrals/abbeys in all my cities... What giveth? My family members are being inquisitioned left right and center for not being devout enough. How can it be raised? Today i had 3 family members killed in 2 turns by inquisitioners... I've only got one left!
Second - The pope. How can you keep him on your side? I'm a good little catholic nation, i am... I never attack other catholic nations and i always do everything the pope asks me, but his standing with me drops randomly so it seems... Earlier, i saw it was full... I was at war with nobody, at all, my main army was in a fort on my own territory, i was just moving my merchants around trying to get them to gain experience... Then two turns later it had dropped by two bars, but i don't know why? It was totally random and undeserved.
And last... Chivalry. It never increases... I mostly release POW's, except if i need some money i ransom them off, but my chivalry never increases... Most i had it was 3 i think, but never went up at all after that. I never sack towns either, unless they are of a different religion than catholic, then i sack, but any other i just occupy...
Are these three things bugged in anyone elses opinion?
1. the inquisition is pretty horrible for a lot of players... I think it might be fixed in a patch who knows maybe not.... but you can defend against inquisitors by moving single 1 army squads around them until they cant move, and than clicking on the inquisitor with a unit... the inquisitor should die.
2. I dont think that the pope is bugged... i think you just did something that you didn't think would drop your standing but ultimately did. Was there a crusade going on? Did you join it? You said you were using Merchants.... did you have them buy out other merchants business? If you attack other merchants of catholic nations, I don't think the pope likes it... could be wrong...
3. I have no idea if chivalrys bugged.
As for keeping the Pope on your side, regular tributes works well. Then the Inquisitors just leave you alone. :)
Beefeater
11-26-2006, 20:43
Agree with Lukasa. Bribe the pope. It doesn't cost so much to stay at outstanding or perfect all the time.
Actually, the game would be a LOT harder if the pope acted like the other nations (i.e. refused to accept peace with, or trust, anyone they didn't like). Surely not EVERY conflict should be as hard to resolve as the Middle East or Northern Ireland? But all I ever seem to get when I offer ceasefire is a virtual shout of "No Surrender" or "Ye can tak' our laives but ye'll never tak' our freedom".
Mel Gibson's got a lot to answer for.
There were no crusades and my merchants were not attacking other metchants... I never failed any pope missions either.
And the papal states never accept money from me. I try every turn but they never EVER accept... A lot of the time they give me a counter offer of 448 florins... 448 florins to me.. :dizzy2: But steadfast refusal to accept any...
Don't offer it, gift it. I've given the Papal States 30,000 florins in one go through gifting it.
gifting it?
how do i do that.
make a new offer, check single payment and then press the icon with a present box, left to "make an offer".
However 30 000 florins is way too much to give pope :p I usually give him 1000 florins, check how my relations change, then give again 100 florins and so on until I'm satisfied with current standings - this way I never overpay him :p
And I think that having good relations with pope makes inquistion turn back on you - so far I had only one general sentenced by them. And most of my Generals and family members have 0 or 1 piety :P (I hope I haven't just spelled bad luck on me now :P )
The reason your respect bar lowers is because your not being an oustanding catholic nation. If you were just a little nation that didnt hurt nobody, then you would have average respect instead of high.
Its the same reason generals get burned at the stake, not because they were heretics but because they werent pious enough.
The way you can fix the pope issue is by bribing the papacy, creating a lot of priests (cardinals help to), converting non catholic settlements, building many pious buildings.
pevergreen
11-26-2006, 23:12
Chivalry isnt bugged IMO after completing a crusade my 24yr old general had 6 chivalry...had some awsome traits. think one was Outstandingly Loyal +4 Loyalty + 3 chivalry...then there is a takes after his father one which gives +1 chiv..Great Crusader +1 or 2 chiv.
Yah I haven't had too much trouble with inquistors in any of my games on hard. Just build churches have a priest or two in your lands to hunt heretics (send the rest to the middle East) and donate some money if it falls too low. Occasionally they get a priest or whatever but I have only lost a few generals just keep an eye out for them and avoid them if they do come into your territory they'll move on eventually.
As for your characters being unpious its not too big of concern. Perhaps its inherited. Try crusading I believe that helps.They usually get slaughtered by inquistors anyway regardless of piety. The only ones that can routinely withstand it are cardinals.
EnemyOfTheState
11-27-2006, 00:45
I hate the bloody Pope whenever I play as the English he launches a genocide against my family. :inquisitive:
I play hard/hard yet when I played as France, Spain, Milan, HRE, Veince, Spain, and Denmark all he ever killed was a few priests or *maybe* a low command low piety general.
I just got beaten during a comand by the Inquistors... Within three turns of them reaching Caen I no londer had any royal family members :dizzy2:
So basically I'm asking if there is -any- way to stop the freaking inquistors?
:help:
I am 85 turns into my campaign as the Spanish. I moved my starting diplomat across Europe towards Italy, and parked him next to Rome when he got there. I replaced him with another when he got into his mid 50s. I gift to the Papal States between 500 and 2000 florins every so often, just enough to keep my Pope-o-meter between 8-10 crosses. Usually 8 is where I give them another batch. I've even pledged 100 per turn for 10 turns; that really raises disposition. Through all these 85 turns, I haven't even SEEN an inquisitor in my lands, except once when he was crossing through Toulouse to get to the French in Bordeaux. Give money to the Pope, it keeps him on your side. Apparently the Inquisition isn't to root out heresy; it's to get even with those the Pope dislikes.
Just make sure you always control the papacy. It should be your first priority.
I'm France Hard/Hard and have been excommunicated for starting a war against the English. I've lost a couple of generals to inquisitors. And the Pope had a crusade declared against Toulouse. Had to defend it against 3 separate crusade stacks so far from 2 different countries, and another one is on the way.
Now the Pope's army is taking away my settlements. Genoa and Milan have been lost, Venice is threatened...
I've given up on making nice with the Pope. It's hopeless for me, and war is the only answer:duel:
Bullethead
11-27-2006, 06:14
I have general (who's quoted in my sig) who had zero piety as a result of having acquired a pagan wizard while recruiting mercs in Moor territory. He's extremely loyal and has good command stars, so I didn't want an inquisitor to get him. Therefore, as soon as I bought an alliance with Lord Venality of the Vatican and had him declare me a crusade on Marakesh, I sent this general to lead it.
Upon successfully taking Marakesh, the general's piety only went up to 2 (two) marks :rolleyes4: . However, he also exterminated the population of about 5300 souls, for which he got 5 levels of chivalry and the nick to go with it :jester: . Oh well, there's always Algiers...
Never had a problem with the inquisition. Only once in my first french campaign did they start to get a little lighter happy. That was after having the pope-o-meter at 3 and droping. I've found building lots of churches, having the highest amount of priests helps. Also the bigger the church the bigger the boost. Building a cathedral helps more then a small church. Also it never hurts to bribe the pope.
As for chivalry and Piety. Their nearly one in the same. If your general is very chivalric he will be very pious most of the time. In order to be chivalric you must do chivalric deeds. Getting the bravery trait is important. Don't pansy foot around with a chivalric general, ensure he makes some charges in battles. Make sure he doesnt exterminate to many settlements. Make sure he releases all enemies, also the more he releases at one time is important, you will not always get a bump to chivalry but you will prevent a loss.
To be pious you again need to be chivalric. Sluaghtering a bunch of catholics is not going to make you very pious. Make sure their around settlements that have thealogian guilds. When building churches your governor will often get a bump to piety.
As for dread, if your having trouble getting chivalry, go this rout. Kill everything, slash burn sack anything around you. Don't bother with ransoming, kill them, it will weaken your enemies. Whatever you do make sure you hurt your enemy the most that is possible.:whip: :skull:
100 florins per turn for 10 turns gifted to the pope works wonders to raise his disposition. I have used the same method to deal with deteriorating relationships with my allies as well. It seems, if you do nothing, relationships deteriorate with time. Offering a long term tribute (even if symbolic) does the trick.
chunkynut
11-27-2006, 16:39
Has anyone noticed that you can have a general with 4 piety but that the traits that should give him piety only add up to 1.
Hence a inquistor will find him guilty of heresy.
I have no problem with chivalry, if I occupy a settlement I get +2 for noble rule and if I release prisoners it tends to give me another, send a general on a crusade and templar/hostpitilar knights become retinue members and thats another +2.
Spendius
11-27-2006, 17:49
For those who believe this is bugged, don't forget that +1 dread = -1 chivalry...
I don't know about the victory first trait, could it be gained from chasing too many routing enemies ?
Also, I believe that, about prisonners & settlements, it is the first choice that matters. If you choose to execute them once, it's no use to try to release them later. You don't turn back when on the way to the dark side...
Has anyone noticed that you can have a general with 4 piety but that the traits that should give him piety only add up to 1.
All of my starting generals were that way, and none of the generals I got during the game. I don't know if it's a bug or what.
For those who believe this is bugged, don't forget that +1 dread = -1 chivalry...
I don't know about the victory first trait, could it be gained from chasing too many routing enemies ?
Also, I believe that, about prisonners & settlements, it is the first choice that matters. If you choose to execute them once, it's no use to try to release them later. You don't turn back when on the way to the dark side...
I usually offer my prisoners up for ransom. Usually the enemies refuses ransom and then they are automatically executed. What characteristic does this produce for my general....greedy and ruthless???
Rameusb5
11-27-2006, 19:28
LOL... it's nice to see everyone else is having the same problems I am! ~:wave:
My first (french) king was a very good one with high piety, but I'm having a very difficult time with all of his offspring (and grandchildren) being dirtbags.
The Spanish (who I am allied with) keep sending inquisitors into my territory. At first they just burned a couple of generals. Then they got a taste for royal blood. First they tried my original king, which he laughed at because his Piety was so high. But he died of old age, and his son, who became king, was almost immediately (within a turn or so) sentenced to death (he's a king! how many kings were burned a the stake historically). Then they started burning other royal family members.
The problem is, I haven't bothered with assasins because that's not my style of play (though I'm quickly building an inn right now I can tell you).
The worst part is, I control the council of cardinals and the pope is one of MY priests! I have a nearly perfect standing with the Vatican. WTF?
I'm actually thinking of restarting the game because of the many things I didn't realize I was going to need when I first started playing, combined with the fact that my entire Eastern Boarder is at war all the time with retarded enemies who attacked me out of the blue (HRE broke an alliance to do so)and won't listen to reason no matter how badly I beat them over and over (and they've been excommunicated).
I've noticed that you can attach agents to your armies. Does travelling with a priest or cardinal increase your peity? What else can I do to increase my piety and/or protect my self from.... the Spanish Inquisition?
you can defend against inquisitors by moving single 1 army squads around them until they cant move, and than clicking on the inquisitor with a unit... the inquisitor should die.
Is this true? Can you use armies to attack agents? Is this new? If so... :eyebrows:
ZachPruckowski
11-27-2006, 19:47
Is this true? Can you use armies to attack agents? Is this new? If so... :eyebrows:
I think that what he meant is that if you have an agent surrounded, he can't retreat in the face of your army.
Piety can be raised quickly in a cities with theologist guild...Cathedrals also helps...
Byzantine Emperor
11-27-2006, 21:00
Don't offer it, gift it. I've given the Papal States 30,000 florins in one go through gifting it.
Heh, that's nothing, I once gave the Pope upwards of 50,000 florins to reconcile me. :beam:
Something I forgot to mention. Chivalry and Dread are traits that will have a legacy for the generals sons. The power of that legacy will depend on the amount of dread or chivalry the general had. Being the son of a general with full dread will mean he starts out with about 3 dread. It can be helpful to keep this in mind for planing future generals and conquests.
IRONxMortlock
11-28-2006, 00:28
As for keeping the Pope on your side, regular tributes works well. Then the Inquisitors just leave you alone. :)
I also find this works wonders. I am currently involved in a nasty little war with the Milanese and the current pope is from Milan. I give 1000 florins every couple of turns and my relations with the pope stay high and no inquisitors have dropped by yet after 50 turns.
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