The Ultimate Stack thread...

[ScrapTower]

By "Ultimate Stack" I mean your idea of the best possible configuration of units to field against ANY given army. I am not talking about stacks to counter other stacks, and Im not talking about economical armies. IMO multiplayer is the best test of your ultimate stack because you never know the makeup of the enemy army.A good human player will provide a better challange and exploitany weekness in your army/strat much better then the AI will. Please list your army makeup, reasons why, and any weekness/strengths it may have. I'll start with my idea of the English ultimate stack...

The English Ultimate Stack:

6 units of Armored Swordsmen
6 units of Retinue Archers
8 units of Templar/Hospitaller Knights

Armored Swordsmen have the highest defencive value out of all the English infantry units. I interprete the defencive value to mean "ability to HOLD the line" and the offencive value to mean "ability to CHOP UP the enemy line". I would replace two units of swordsmen with Dismounted English Knights but at the moment they are bugged.6 swords will hold the line plenty long even when outnumbered or out matched.

Retinue Archers provide a great stake wall when on the defencive. I find that 6 is just enough to ensure you are never out bowed. Against an army of all Horse Archers, your infanty and hevay cavalry are nearly useless as they cannot catch the Horse Archers. With 6 Retinue Archers you can form a provtective stake pocket around your entire army and make them come to you.

Templar/Hospitaller Knights are the best hevy cav you can field as the English, and nearly nullify the English cavalry weekness. 8 is just enough to ensure you are never out caved, and more then enough to flank and decimate an infantry heavy army.

[Flavius Gonzo]

Hmmm... that's for sure a potent stack!

However, swordsmen get destroyed by a head on cavalry charge, wouldn't you want some spearmen in there to counter this? If you're playing as the english though, you don't have many options here except for mercs and levys.

And personally, I find battles to be much more fun with arty flinging fireballs at the enemy.

So, I'd take your list, and I'd sub out 2 archers, 2 swords, and 3 knights for:

1 general
2 spears
4 trebuchets

But I guess it's a matter of preference!!

[Widget Maker]

15 Monster Ribaults(or whatever the 36 Barrel Artillery i)
2 of the best Cav your faction has)
With AI bug you can shoot them up to your hearts content)
did a Test me with 20 units armoured swordsman vs 20 Ribaults (3-4 shots and I'd lost almost all my army)

If not then hmm 20 Elephants with Artillery

for a proper army using the English then
6 English Knights
1generals Body guard
4Retuinue Longbow
9 Swordsman

[ScrapTower]

Doh, I forgot about the general because I was thinking multiplayer, however I do not mean this to be a multiplayer thread...

[zulukiller]

Most of my stacks (untill i can get cannons) are :-

6 units of Armored Swordsmen (fully upgraded from citadel with swordsmith guild)
5 units of Retinue Archers (fully upgrade ive also got headquaters for woodsman guild)
4 units of Hospitilar knights (fully upgraded, i can get templar no matter what i do)
1 Generals bodyguard (upgraded)
4 Spearmen (fully upgraded from a citadel with swordsmith guild)

Thats the sort of offensive stack i use it works out roughly at around 2000 men (on huge armies) and with that type of stack ive managed take out multiple stacks of around 5000 units in total with roughly 70% to 80% of my men still alive after the battle.

I would actually use dismounted english knights but there bugged really badly (2 handed weapon bug) so i just stick with the armoured swordsmen as they do brilliantly for me.

[ScrapTower]

Hmmm... that's for sure a potent stack!

However, swordsmen get destroyed by a head on cavalry charge, wouldn't you want some spearmen in there to counter this? If you're playing as the english though, you don't have many options here except for mercs and levys.

And personally, I find battles to be much more fun with arty flinging fireballs at the enemy.

So, I'd take your list, and I'd sub out 2 archers, 2 swords, and 3 knights for:

1 general
2 spears
4 trebuchets

But I guess it's a matter of preference!!

There is no reason your swords should ever be exposed to a head on cav charge if you have 8 knights of your own and 6 steak walls.

[Somebody Else]

HRE...

General (someone's got to be in charge...)
2 Culverins (deal with any enemy artillery, and cause merry havoc on troops)
4 Pavise X-bows (to absorb and send away projectiles)
2 Arquebusiers (I like the pretty smoke puffs)
5 Gothic knights (name something - not a pachyderm - that these can't charge down)
4 Reiters (again, pretty smoke puffs, plus handy in a proper fight too!)
2 Zweihanders (for wall-taking)

Pretty random assortment, oughta work though...

[IPoseTheQuestionYouReturnTheAnswer]

As The Turks, I usually go with...

1 General
7 Janissary Heavy Infantry
6 Qapukulu
4 Sipahis
2 Turkomens

Now that I got Musketeers, though, I'm starting to change things to this:

1 General
6 Janissary Heavy Infantry
2 Janissary Musketeers
6 Qapukulu
4 Sipahis
1 Turkomens

[Gray Beard]

Byzantine (Infantry Option)
4 X Varangian Guard
4 X Dis Mounted Latinkons
4 X Spear Militia with armor Upgrades
4 X Guard Archer
2 X Family Members
2 X Other Heavy Cavalry

Variants of this using Byzantine Swordmen or Dismounted Lancers can also be pretty good especially for auto resolved battles. The Guard Archers are tougher than most infantry so you can also replace the Spearmen with other heavy infantry

Byzantine Cavalry Option
2 X Family Members
8 X Vartoiria (sp?)
5 X Latinkons
5 X Skythikon

[sapi]

Ultimate stack:
20x vards :yes:

Realistic stack:
6x byz inf
4x varangian guard
4x vards
4x kataphractoi
2x generals

[Shahed]

20 Vards => invincible.

[Frederick_I_Barbarossa]

Milan:
1 General
9 Pavise Crossbows
5 Miscellaneous Infantry (including 2 Italian Spears on flanks)
3 Templars
2 Militia Cav or Ballistas

England:
1 General
4 Miscellaneous Infantry (need pikes for flanks)
3 Templars or English Knights
2 Militia/Light Cav or Ballistas or more archers
10 Longbows/Sherwood Archers

I like my archers...alot...

[Death is yonder]

English:
1xGeneral(prefferably with good command and moral boost and if possible Hp)
2xSpears(Fully upgraded so as to reduce requirement of more spears to counter cavalry)
6xArmoured Swordsmen(Prefferably upgraded)
5xRetinue Archers(Although i also like sherwood archers)
4xTemplar/Hospitaller
2xTrebuchet(So i dont have to wait to build siege equipment for assulting cities)
(Although a spy and some luck/loading repeatedly would be better and would free up more room for cavalry:yes: )

[Moah]

Turks: This is what I'm taking to America.....

1 General
4 Qapakalu
9 Janissary Musketeers 3x3 -also awesome in melee!
2 Cannon
4 Hashishim

[FactionHeir]

20 vards cannot win a siege quickly unless you also got spies :p

France:
1 GB
6 Lancer
3 Mt Archer
2 Aventurier
2 Voulgier
2 Mailed Knight
2 Merc Free Company LB
1 Merc Elephant Muskets
1 Merc Elepahnt Artillery

[Shahed]

If you did'nt catch the enemy in the field while you're on horseback, something is definetly not right ! ;P :D

[sapi]

20 vards cannot win a siege quickly unless you also got spies :pTrue - but they won't make it more than 10m outside the town when they sally :grin2:

[samiosumo]

Egypt:
1 general (preferably the faction leader)
19 Hashashim

Deployed as:

Frontline
H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H
Middle line:
H-H-H-H-G-H-H-H-H
Backline:
H-H-H-H

Strategy:
Use the Hashashim frontline to batter the enemies front ranks. Concentrate on the middle of their line while the Middle line assault then outer sides. Only use the backline as reserves. Bring a unit in if another is taking heavy casualties. Use 3 or 4 centre units to overwhelm the enemies centre unit. Then use these to head straight for the general. Speed is the key here in this plan but mostly let the Hashashim get into a fighting rhythm then strike with the back line when you’ve killed or routed their general to rout the whole army.

[Iavorios]

I like heavy infatry allot. So i use a stack of :

1 GB
6 spearmen
5 heavy infantry
4 archers
4 heavy cav

I personally always use unleased 5 spear units. The cav in MTW2 is way to strong. And you need something to die from the arrows. I hope that the shield bug in 1.02 is finally fixed, so they are perfect for the job. You will need 4 good archers or x- bows to counter the HA and for my favorite defensive battles. And not less than 4 cav to chase routers and archers. The rest- heavy infantry. Whith this you can kill almost all kinds of enemas. Fighting cav whith cav is possible but expensive. Thing like in WW II- most of the tanks where not destroyed by other thanks, but from infantry and airplanes.

[dismal]

The English Ultimate Stack:

6 units of Armored Swordsmen
6 units of Retinue Archers
8 units of Templar/Hospitaller Knights


Seems like your infantry line would be rather short.

Against a lot of stacks, all that heavy cav can make up for that. But I think your archers are going to cost you too much in a field battle versus a powerful melee army.

I think if I came at you with, say, 10 Armored Swordsmen and 10 Templar/Hospitaller Knights you'd be in real trouble.

[Agent Smith]

As the Moors:

12 Camel Gunners
7 Tuareg Camel Spearmen
1 General

Mass camel assaults on horse cavalry = fun.

As my homeland of Kievan-Rus, this is my favorite stack:

8 Spearmen
4 Dismounted Dvor
2 Berdiche Axemen
2 Basilisks
3 Tsar's Guard
1 General

At late game I'll switch the Dvor out for Cossack Musketeers and maybe switch a few spears with Dvor or other heavy infantry. I find it to be a very versitile stack and good against heavy cav armies.

[Scot's Pike General]

well, for scotland it's:

!0x Scots Noble Pikemen(fully upgraded)
5x Highland archers( 3 archers and 2 artillery when gunpowder comes along)
3x Highlanders
2x Border Cavalry

[FactionHeir]

Why would you want 3 highland archers as opposed to noble highland archers?

[Agent Smith]

Why would you want 3 highland archers as opposed to noble highland archers?

No questions as to the Border Horses? :inquisitive:

[Eng]

As Mongols :

1GB
6 Mongol heavy archers (The missile cavalry)
4 heavy lancers
4 dismounted heavy lancers
5 dismounted mongol heavy archers (may take 2 dismounted archers off for rocket lyncher)

As English:

1GB
5 retine retine
5 Swordsmen
5 spearmen
3 Templar knights
1 Sherwood archers (there just cool...):verycool:

[FactionHeir]

No questions as to the Border Horses? :inquisitive:

Border horse are fast moving. And quite useful.

[Philbert]

There is no reason your swords should ever be exposed to a head on cav charge if you have 8 knights of your own and 6 steak walls.

Funny typo: in game they are actually called "stake walls" but I guess once the horses run into them they would become walls of steak.

[FactionHeir]

Funny typo: in game they are actually called "stake walls" but I guess once the horses run into them they would become walls of steak.

How's horse taste?:laugh4:

[John_Longarrow]

FactionHeir,

Its very good, especially if you find someone who knows how to butcher and prepare it.

As for ultimate stack, how about 20x Rocket Elephants? If nothing else, the initial volley will be worth watching! :devilish:

[Shahed]

I've done that.

I'd have to agree. For pure destructive power without doing a thing, 20 Elephant Artillery or 20 Elephant Rockteers cannot be matched.

Just control + A, lgroup, shift+3, loose formation, auto fire-on, hit start and have a beer.

[Ducati996R]

Can be used offensively but mostly a defensive army.
Polish:
5 Lithuanian Archers (place 3 of them as a row in the front and the other 2 on the left and right sides facing outwards so you have a half square, each formation 2 rows deep, then deploy stakes)
4 Spearmen (deploy behind archers as stakes will take out cavalry. Spearmen are for anything left over after a charge through the stakes or if enemy circumvents half square of stakes)
4 Polish Nobles (Most important units if fighting Timurid elephants. Send Polish Nobles to throw javelins at any elephant artillery first then goad enemy army to your half square using your harrassing PN. Polish Nobles kill elephants the fastest out of anything in the game except for a close up ribault)
3 Artillery (Fire at will. In the middle of the half square!!! Trebuchets and catapults or cannons, serpentines later on)
3 Polish Guard or Polish Knights
1 General Unit (these 4 knight units split into 2 units on each side of the half square far back so Mongol cavalry charges stakes not your cavalry! After Polish Nobles run out of javelins and archers and artiellery run out of ammo i use 4 Polish Nobles and 4 Knight units to surround whatevers left and mop up. Or to help half square if spearmen cant hold it against enemy infantry or something)
ONLY WORKS FOR POLISH AS THEIR ARCHERS CAN DELPOY STAKES AND PLUS THEY HAVE THE ESSENTIAL MOUNTED JAVELIN THROWERS TO KILL ELEPHANTS QUICKLY.
If you go up against a lot of elephants i would recommend replacing the polish guard or polish knights with more polish nobles.

[Caliburn]

I believe the Polish Nobles replacing the Knight units is enough, as against cavalry they shine with the Javelins, and against infantry, they have enough staying power for quick hammer/anvil tactics, and good enough attack and charge to break the enemy with flanking attacks. It's a good setup in any case.

[zerathule]

The definition of ultimate is quite relative anyway, here are my ultimate stacks :
Portugal : (upkeep)
1 X General (250)
4 X Musketeers (600)
4 X Dismounted Conquistadores (600)
2 X Conquistadores (500)
7 X Adventuros (1295)
2 X Basilik (800)
= Total upkeep of 4045 per turn

Milan :
1 X General (250)
4 X Italian Cavalry Militia (600)
6 X Genoese Crossbow Militia (600)
9 X Italian Spear Militia (1075)
= Total upkeep of 2525 per turn.

So you could have allmost 2 milaneese armies on the field for 1 portuguese, and this is not counting the purchase price, the building requirements (and the events requirements) and the impossibility to retrain.
Technicaly the milaneese stack can be made with a merchant's guild and the first stone wall level.

[Ghaseken]

I am a mostly a hevy inf and missile player, using cav only to destroy the enemy's and outflanking.
Here are a few that fit my playstyle:
English
1 General
2 English Knights
8 Retinue Longbowmen
5 Aurmored Swordsmen
2 Dis. English Knights
2 Of the best Artillery you can get at the time.
French
1 General
2 Lancers
4 Scots Guard
4 Aventuriers
5 Dis. French Knights
2 Pikemen Militia
2 of the best artillery you can get at the time

[Ghaseken]

Here are a few more:
Spain
1 General
2 Conquistadores
9 Musketmen
6 Pikes (any kind will do)
2 Of the best artillery
Moors
1 Gen
2 Christian Guard
6 Dis. Christian Guard
5 Sudanese Gunners
6 Desert Archers

[Garnier]

In my one poland game (only poland game I ever played in M2TW) I made armies entirely of horse archers once I could.

As England or France, I'd generally have 8 longbowmen (scots guard or retinue longbows), 4 of the best knights (including general), and 4 heavy infantry.

As France, two of the infantry would sometimes be armored spearmen, to protect against cavalry heavy armies, while as England I'd make a complete square of stakes and have the heavy inf in a thin line along the stakes, longbows in loose formation in the middle. Ridiculous strategies but it works every time.

I may say, I quickly got bored of M2TW.

:bow:

edit: ah... tremendous bump.

[oz_wwjd]

8 cossack muskeeters,8 Landsknecht pikemen,1 general,3 tsar's Guard

Basic strategy is to set up the pikewall,and let the enemy come to you,and be blasted apart by the musketeers on the way. Then I have my heavy calv for launching flank attacks on what's left of the enemy forces..

[Sebastian Seth]

1 Family Member
General's Bodyguard C
2 Heavy Cavarly
Western Knights, Kathaprankoi, Siphanis, Mamluks, Armenians... H
2 Heavy Horse Archers
Boyars, Variodai, Siphanis, Mamluks... W
4 Armored Core Troops
Dismounted Knights, Armored Sergenants... I
2 Defensive Spear Troops
Pikemen, Spearmen... D
2 Melee Shock Troops
Gallowglach, Hashasin, Varangians, Woodsmen... S
2 Archers
Longbowmen, Turkish Archers... A
2 Crossbows
Crossbows, Guns, Napatha, Merceneries... B
1 Siege Weapon
Bombard, Trepuchet, Elephant Cannon... X

H C H - I usually put the both H with the C and use them as "full frontal bomchikawaiwai charge". When they hit the target I whitdraw C and another H and then charge with them again. If theres space I go past the target and charge from behind or sides.

W W - I usually put these to "shoot and circle" and try to pull units out of enemy consentration with them. When theres enough of chaos around and weak units seperated from others I use them to charge them. And finally to chase down fleeing enemies.

D I I I I D - This is what my front line looks like. Their purpose is pretty much to keep in line and attack as one straight to enemy consentration. The spears are on sides because they are cheapest to replace but AI usually tries to flack with cavarly and I send them to bind them.

S B A A B S - This is the second line. I actually use the crossbows to kill the stacks hitting my front line and the archers to hit what ever is on the back ground. (Usually enemy archers.) The shocktroops at side are either for hitting the middle or killing of what ever D got on him.

[Mete Han]

1 general + 19 hungarian nobles (or vardartorais or sipahis)

or

1 general + 6 polish retainers + 13 polish guard

for sieges wait until they sally forth

[Prussian to the Iron]

not in regards to upkeep, i can beat anybody with:

1 General
2 Heavy Cavalry
9 Armoured Seargeants
4 Elite Archers (Venetian Archers, Retinue Longbowmen, etc.)
2 Pavise Crossbows
2 Trebuchets

Pretty realistic too; lots of bows and crossbows, and tons of spears.

[Myth]

not in regards to upkeep, i can beat anybody with:

1 General
2 Heavy Cavalry
9 Armoured Seargeants
4 Elite Archers (Venetian Archers, Retinue Longbowmen, etc.)
2 Pavise Crossbows
2 Trebuchets

Pretty realistic too; lots of bows and crossbows, and tons of spears. I've not gotten to that point yet but it sounds to me you will be hard pressed vs Mongols/Tirmurids or cav heavy Polish armies.

[A Nerd]

^ Nice army. You don't use any heavies? My favorites, always in my army when available, feudal foot knights?

[dzidek]

My best Polish stack...

1-2x General - command & flanking
6x Polish Guard - frontal charge
2x Hussars - flanking & taking out rooters
2x Strzelcy - pike wall harraser
2x Lithuanian Cavalry - light infantry harraser
6x Polish Nobles - general, elephant killer & heavy cavalry harraser

Defensive infanry heavy:

1x General - command & flanking
4x Lithuanian archers - stakes & missile support
4x Serpentine - artillery support
5x Spearmen - holding the line
2x Dismounted Polish Knights - defending artillery & gunpowder
2x Arqebusiers - missile support
2x Hussars - defending artillery & gunpowder, flanking, chasing rooters