Light Reading: New 0.8 MIC system explanation

[Teleklos Archelaou]

This post will attempt to explain the new MIC system changes that we have had to enact for our port to RTW 1.5. I may not be the best person to explain it, but I am someone who is interested in making sure folks understand things and so I've put this explanation together. Before I begin, while a lot of people have worked on this, I really need to thank blacksnail for his incredible work on it. It is mostly his idea as a way to solve our problems we faced after the initial 1.5 port had occurred. You're the man Zach! :grin:


--------------------------------------------

The new MIC system may be the biggest change in the whole mod. I don't know if I can do an explanation of the system justice, but it was forced upon us by the changes in 1.5. Basically 1.5 made all building conditionals for units cause instant CTD's in certain situations (i.e., viewing the building description). So we had to remove all government building requirements for units. But the system we have now still achieves pretty much the same results as before, it's just that now there are multiple barracks (MIC's) in the code (you will only ever be able to build two at any given time though). There was no other option though if we still wanted our recruitment to stay pretty much the same, and this works nicely.

Here is the theoretical explanation: instead of having each unit be restricted to a province and faction depending upon what type of government or reform level is found there, we switched to a system where we have a ton of MIC's and MIC levels, that are dependent upon governments and reforms. I did a very rough count and saw about 104 levels of barracks (MIC's) in the new EDB code. It is so complicated, and now our EDB.txt file is so large, that we don't do *any* altering of the recruitment code any longer by hand. It all has to be done by spreadsheet and a macro or something like that which creates the lines of text for EDB.txt. This reduces the chance for any inadvertent spelling errors or other silly mistakes in that part of the code that could cause problems or CTD's.

Now, that is the internal explanation - the immediate way you will come to see this change is when you start the game - you will not only have your regular factional MIC's (where all your faction's units come from), but you will have local MIC's also (where you train "foreign natives"). What type of MIC's you build is entirely dependent upon the type of government you build first (which is entirely dependent upon who your faction is and where the province in question is and what types of governments you could build there).

Let's take an easy example in Makedonia. If you are Makedonia and you capture Epeiros (Ambrakia), you can build govts 1-4. If you build a type1 govt (homeland), then you get all 5 levels of your Makedonian MIC's and one little level of your regional/local MIC's. If you had built a type4 govt (allied), then you get all 5 levels of the regional/local MIC's, and maybe one Makedonian MIC or maybe none at all. It varies by faction. Pretty simple actually. We have attempted to give variation to the faction and local MIC's too, so you can easily tell the difference visually. They have new icons right now. Look at the graphic below and you will see the regular MIC icons on the left, and the new local MIC icons on the right, with small tents surrounding it. The larger constructed images are the same right now, but they are in the process of being adjusted by O'Etairos (who has done all our constructed images for the MIC's) so that the local MIC's will have non-greek units being shown training, led by a greek captain. You'll notice the names are changed a little also:

https://img114.imageshack.us/img114/5619/micchartro5.th.jpg (https://img114.imageshack.us/my.php?image=micchartro5.jpg)

One last thing: If you capture a province from a faction that is a lot like yours, you might find that the faction and the regional MIC's can immediately give you troops. But if you capture a province from a faction not very close to your own, you will have to start building those faction and regional MIC's from scratch. Just recruit lots of mercs till you get the place well under control. That's the best I can do describing the new system. We didn't necessarily want to change it, but that's the way the cookie crumbled when CA made those changes in the 1.5 patch and this is the only even remotely possible way we could get past the hurdle - by making the MIC's dependent upon governments and provinces, not the units themselves. The resulting system is absolutely as complex as before though, recruitment really doesn't change, you just have to build some additional MIC's (which in most situations slows things down more actually - not such a bad thing).

If folks have questions, we can try to answer them, but you don't really have to worry yourselves too much with the guts and such of this system. You can just build whatever MIC's are available to you in any given province after you select the government. You will only have two MIC types available at any given time: not too complex.

This was going to be released at the same time the mod was, but since the installer isn't ready yet, might as well get some of you more used to the new system now. :2thumbsup:

[Conqueror]

Very interesting, and a nice treat for the fans ~:)

One question though: since it appears that MICs are now faction-specific, is it possible to have both the native MICs (leftover by the previous owner of the freshly captured province) as well as having your own MICs on the side, or do you have to destroy the native MICs before you can build your own? If you have to destroy them, then how does this affect the AI?

[Steistas]

...
But if you capture a province from a faction not very close to your own, you will have to start building those faction and regional MIC's from scratch
...

Sounds great and I can imagine how complex the system is . It will be interesting to get into files and see the way you've done it :)

And I've got a question, maybe stupid question, but it's just me so don't wonder what I am carrying in my head :laugh4:

When you say close to your own faction, is it by the type (barbarian, greek, etc.) or distance?

[Markus_Aurelius]

Well im glad the mod is getting so close to release than, and thanks for the explanation, I kind of like the new system.

[Birka Viking]

Yeah this sounds very promising...:2thumbsup:

[Djurre]

I'm shure this is a real nice attempt at making shure people understand, but you lost me in the topic title. What is the MIC? this kind of stuff should be noob-proof ;)

[Dram]

I'm shure this is a real nice attempt at making shure people understand, but you lost me in the topic title. What is the MIC? this kind of stuff should be noob-proof ;)

in vanilla rtw the 'MIC' (military industrial complex) was basically the barracks/archery range/stable. in EB its combined in the MIC.

[-Praetor-]

in vanilla rtw the 'MIC' (military industrial complex) was basically the barracks/archery range/stable. in EB its combined in the MIC.

...which is a single building that fulfills those three roles.


Now, you may build 2 MIC per province. One for your conquering faction troops, and one for the conquered native troops. Thus, if you are say roman, and conquer Siracusae, one MIC will serve for training hastati, and the other MIC for training Hoplitai Iphicratides. :rtwyes:

[Corinthian Hoplite]

But I wonder, if you build a type 4 gov, you still have to develop the native MICs until you get to level 5, right? Or, in a worse case, the first native MIC available to you will be of level 5?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

In a type3 gov, you don't get all 5 local MIC's (you do in a type4 though), but you do get more faction ones than in a type2 or a type1. I don't know the numbers for sure, but it's more like a type3 would get you about 4 local MIC's and 2 faction MIC's. Then a type2 gov would be something like 2 local MIC's and 3 or 4 faction MIC's. In general, on one side you get more of one than of the other, but as you move to the other side it flips.

When I said "close to your faction", it varies. Most of them are sort of like your culture group, but it breaks down further for some. Celts have their own, and Sweboz and Getai share one, and Lusotannan get their own. That sort of thing. Local MIC's are a little different, but not totally.

[blacksnail]

The general idea is that in Type 1 (homeland) governments you would be able to build up to level 5 of the "factional" MIC and few if any levels of the "regional" MIC, and in Type 4 governments that are far from your homeland you can build up to level 5 of the "regional" MIC and few if any of the "factional" MIC. Think of it as a sliding scale - the further away from your homeland, the less factional MIC levels you can build, while the closer to your homeland the less regional MIC levels you can build. This is a rule of thumb only, as it is possible to personalize a bit by faction.

For example, Romani start without the capability for regional MICs in their traditional homeland, but during later reforms are allowed to build a few levels of regional MICs there to recruit local auxilia.

[blacksnail]

The local MICs share a cultural group - so, all Western Greek factions share that local MIC. If Makedonians conquer an Epeirote province with a local MIC built by the Epeirotes, they should be able to recruit local units after a turn of restoring the MIC to effectiveness (ie, paying to repair it). However, they will need to build their own factional MIC after a government is in place if they wish to recruit factional troops.

[Conqueror]

But if for example I'm playing as Lusotannan and I happen to conquer egypt from the Ptolemies. then do I have to destroy the original MICs in Alexandria to be able to build my own?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

No, you don't have to destroy them. I would advise it though if you want a little cash and are sure it's of no use to you.

[Conqueror]

Oh that's a good idea, gotta get some loot ~D

I was mostly thinking (as you wrote that sometimes the native MICs might enable limited recruitment) that it would be useful to keep the old ones until my own MICs have been completed.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

It doesn't have to be really complicated - if an MIC is there that gives you troops, feel free to use it. It just means someone very much like your people has been there and constructed barracks, armories, stables, etc. very much like you would - you can use them. If some MIC's there do nothing for you, and you can't upgrade them, then dump 'em.

[blacksnail]

I was mostly thinking (as you wrote that sometimes the native MICs might enable limited recruitment) that it would be useful to keep the old ones until my own MICs have been completed.
If they're not of the same cultural group, there's no reason to keep the MIC around. Lusotannan would be part of the "barbarian" group and Ptolemaioi part of the "eastern Greek" group. There wouldn't be any cross-over whatsoever between those two cultures, so you'd just destroy any Ptolemaioi factional and/or regional MICs for some easy cash and get to work on your government.

The two ways to know are to look at your building browser or your recruitment tab. Once you have a government in place, does the local MIC allow you to build level 1 of your regional MIC? Or, does it only allow you to improve it to level 2/3/4/5? When you right-click on the regional MIC, does it have nothing in it? Or, do you see recruitable units? If the latter in both cases, you share the same cultural group and can begin recruitment once you repair the regional MIC.

[Cybvep]

It's great that you have solved the problem. BTW, does it also mean that we will have no use of governments built by another factions?

[HopliteElite]

Sounds very interesting and not overly complicated at all, at least in my eyes. I'm looking forward to the new gameplay introduced by EB as compared to RtR and kudos to the EB team for a great mod (I've played before but it was a tad too incomplete for my tastes). I think 0.8 will offer a more complete and stable version of an already good mod and I look forward to the oppurtunity to play it.

[blacksnail]

It's great that you have solved the problem. BTW, does it also mean that we will have no use of governments built by another factions?
I would have really liked to have done this, but we had a hardcoded limit of 63 building complexes. Due to the new MIC system, nearly all the spare complexes we had were taken up. It is possible to simply repair a government building, but this actually bones you in regards to recruitment - say you repair a pre-existing Type I government far from your homeland. This limits you to a few or no levels of regional MIC. You can build up to five levels of factional MIC, but for most factions there would be few (if any) factional units available this far afield. Your recruitment is effectively stunted or non-existent if you do this.

However, if you'd destroyed the government and then built up a Type IV, you would typically be able to build five levels of regional MIC. It's kind of a no-brainer. :2thumbsup:

[Trithemius]

In a type4 gov, you don't get all 5 local MIC's, but you do get more faction ones than in a type5.

Type5? Is this a new government type?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Huh. I meant type3 I suppose. Sorry about that.

[Tuuvi]

I actually think I will like the new system better than the old ones. I hope someone releases a recruitement guide.

[Trithemius]

Huh. I meant type3 I suppose. Sorry about that.

No worries! I thought that perhaps type5 might have been the military occupation government you mentioned elsewhere.

This system sounds really good guys, and it also sounds like the building browser is good-to-go too. Can't wait (I just hope I finish my M2TW Turkish campaign before EB0 0.8 comes out)!

[Teleklos Archelaou]

I actually think I will like the new system better than the old ones. I hope someone releases a recruitement guide.
Oh, we have something a lot better than a text guide. :grin:

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Is it possible to build a type4 government and build a high level of 'regional' MICs, then tear that down and build a type1 and build a high level of 'home' MICs? Thus giving you all the troops availible at that region with only one government type? Or am I not understanding something?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

No, you are correct. The system can be exploited that way. It's not some earth-shattering exploit though. If you do allow a province to be your "ally" for a number of years, and if you build up their local MIC's to the highest level, then you switch to a type1 gov (after destroying the type4), then you can build the highest faction MIC's, but it is unlikely any single province will give you both good faction MIC5 and local MIC5 troops. Your homelands will have some other peoples unlike your own there, but not a lot of them in the highest level local MIC's. Shouldn't be too concerned about this one.

[blacksnail]

Yeah, we don't even consider that an exploit due to the way the recruitment actually breaks down. If you have a level 5 regional MIC that recruits the same units at level 5 as it did at level 1 before your government-swap trick, the only difference is that you spent a lot of mnai on the regional MIC for no clear benefit. You could consider that a role-playing thing, as it won't give you any substantial edge (barring the occasional, rare exception).

[CountArach]

This is awesome guys! Definately awesome...

[nikolai1962]

Very clever system and seems to work well so far.

[blacksnail]

Nikolai! Great to see you, man. I can say hands down that none of this would have happened without your hard work. Your guidelines became the "bible" I worked by and helped us solve countless frustrating, potentially port-killing problems. Many thanks for breaking the first ground.

[Kull]

Nikolai! Great to see you, man. I can say hands down that none of this would have happened without your hard work. Your guidelines became the "bible" I worked by and helped us solve countless frustrating, potentially port-killing problems. Many thanks for breaking the first ground.

Amen. In some ways it was very reminiscent of the construction of the Transcontinental Railroad. One team (Nikolai, Teleklos, and Cunctator) was busy porting over buildings and graphics and cities while the other slowly made every unit v1.5 compatible (Qwerty, Blacksnail and I), until that grand day when both halves were finally merged, and we danced and celebrated. For about a day. And then we began to experience a strange and extremely annoying CTD, and we dug into it further, and further, and with growing horror, until......well, you've heard THAT story.

[nikolai1962]

shucks. ty :)

(though i think the new barracks code is much cleverer than anything i could have thought of)

[Slaists]

I have a question though. I am playing as Romani and conquered the greekish towns in Southern Italian peninsula. I build type II governmnent in those settlements, but I still can only build regional MIC's: no roman ones. What else is needed to build Roman MIC's in a conquered province?

[Empedocles]

The romani has restrictions to where they can train units before the Marian Reforms (and after that you can't train legions in every city).
At the first stages of the game you can only build in certain cities of Italy, to reflect the situation and lack of manpower roman suffered in those days.

Regards.

[Dampiel]

The romani has restrictions to where they can train units before the Marian Reforms (and after that you can't train legions in every city).
At the first stages of the game you can only build in certain cities of Italy, to reflect the situation and lack of manpower roman suffered in those days.

Regards.

Ok so there are more factors in recruiting units than the type of government building and the type of barracks you build there?

I am playing as Epirote and have conquered the Italian peninsula and built type II governments in all of the formerly Roman cities and I have built many Epirote barracks but I can't seem to recruit any Epirote units.

It sounded like what was said at the top of this thread that type II governments would allow you to build up to level 4 faction barracks...

Am I not understanding this correctly?

-Dampiel-

[Fondor_Yards]

Ok so there are more factors in recruiting units than the type of government building and the type of barracks you build there?

I am playing as Epirote and have conquered the Italian peninsula and built type II governments in all of the formerly Roman cities and I have built many Epirote barracks but I can't seem to recruit any Epirote units.

It sounded like what was said at the top of this thread that type II governments would allow you to build up to level 4 faction barracks...

Am I not understanding this correctly?

-Dampiel-

They do, but that doesn't mean you can recruit, let's say, Hippeis Thessalikoi there. There's an AOR system.

[Kull]

Ok so there are more factors in recruiting units than the type of government building and the type of barracks you build there?

I am playing as Epirote and have conquered the Italian peninsula and built type II governments in all of the formerly Roman cities and I have built many Epirote barracks but I can't seem to recruit any Epirote units.

It sounded like what was said at the top of this thread that type II governments would allow you to build up to level 4 faction barracks...

Am I not understanding this correctly?

-Dampiel-

The EB recruitment system is insanely complex. Every single unit has their recruitment defined in EDB by province! In a nutshell:

1) The Four Government Types are restricted to provinces in accordance with Faction-related criteria such as - but not exclusively - historical exapansion area.

2) Ability to add Levels to the two kinds of MICs are restricted by the Government Types.

3) Units are only available from the correct level of the correct MIC of the correct Faction.

4) Units are further restricted to areas where they were recruitable in antiquity or where our historians can postulate they would have been available if history had flowed differently.

And that's about as simple as I can make it. EB is not a unit spam fest. The Mod's great strength is the way it facilitates roleplaying and learning. So when unit "X" is available from one province but not another - or to one faction and not another - accept it as a limitation and learn how to adjust your tactics to compensate. Why does EB not get boring as the campaign moves forward? Because the learning and the challenges never really end.

[Lord Gruffles]

Help please! :help:

I'm playing as the Epieros and I've conquered Arpi, Capua and Roma. But it doesn't look like I can recruite anything anywhere (with either MIC building) except for Hellenic Skirishers in Capua (with the faction recruitment building).

http://www.montanasentinel.com/gruffles/pics/EB/epeiros_recruitment.jpg

I have Level 3 Type Govt built for them. Is that the problem? I would really like to recruit from these three towns so thanks from a confused fan. :sweatdrop:

[Teleklos Archelaou]

I think you should get hoplitai in capua, but you may need a type4 govt there.

More units will be available in these areas in later builds, but these regionals are some of the last ones we are getting to.

[Lord Gruffles]

Is there any point in building, say, a Level 1 Native MIC to get to a Level 2 Native MIC? Know what I mean? I can't build anything on Level 1's but can I on Level 2's?

Or, are you saying I will never be able to recruit anything from Roma? That would kinda kill my campaign I think. :(


TYIA for you help TA.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

I thought we were going to make hastati at least available there, but I don't know if it was implemented. It is not a great area to recruit from for other factions - it's theoretical whatever we do try there so it's hard to fix it exactly.

[Lord Gruffles]

...it's theoretical whatever we do try there so it's hard to fix it exactly.
If you are rome and conquer Athens....what can you recruit?

It should be similar if you are Athens (or Epeiros in this case) and conquer Rome IMHO.

There's no reason Roman territories should be more resistant to recruitment just because historically they were never conquered by outsiders in this period. How about some Samnites for Native MIC, etc?

My biggest fear is that Rome's population will be a run away freight-trian if I can't recruit anything out of there. Same for the other Roman provences, for that matter. Gulp. This definitely puts a damper on my love of Epeiros. At least for now, I guess. I shall forge on and see what happens. Maybe you could find a team member to confirm exactly what I can recruit and where... :D

I hope I don't sound pessimistic. I was just absolutely in love with this latest campaign and was so happy that my initial strategy for them worked like a charm (although the Romans have a stack and a half racked up in Arretium and thanks to BI carthage just landed a sizable force near capua and .... :wall: ) Things will be interesting in the next year me thinks.

Again, thanks for the response TA.

[Kull]

Is there any point in building, say, a Level 1 Native MIC to get to a Level 2 Native MIC? Know what I mean? I can't build anything on Level 1's but can I on Level 2's?

Or, are you saying I will never be able to recruit anything from Roma? That would kinda kill my campaign I think. :(


TYIA for you help TA.

You should be able to recruit Hastati and Rorarii with your Level 2 "Regional" MIC, and Equites at Level 3.

As I said earlier, EB was not designed to be a unit spam fest, so some areas will NEVER have vast unit selections for you to draw upon. PLEASE try not to think like you are playing a game. Ancient armies could and did recruit certain types of locals in various regions, but they RARELY could outfit an entire army with every class of possible unit. People should NOT expect this!! :wall:

[Lord Gruffles]

Kull, I appreciate your input. I was not expecting to outfit an entire army from Italy. But, as I posted, my main concern was that Roma and the other Italian cities would be population runaway trains. If I can recruit a few units from there to keep populations under control I am in good shape.

Thanks again TA and Kull for your help.

[Kralizec]

I'm playing an Epeiros campaign too, and I cheated ("add_money" and "process_cq") to find out what I could build, and where. I'm pretty sure that Capua and Arpi at least only yield Rorarii and Samnite heavy infantry.
Hoplitai I believe are available with a level 3 regional MIC/

The new system does put me against some tough choices sometimes. There's a Illyrian/Thracian province directly north of Makedonia, the name of wich escapes me, where I can build a Type 1 government. However the province can also yield Thraikoi Hippeis (excellent skirmisher cavalry), but building a homeland province prevents you from upgrading the regional MIC enough to build them.


But, as I posted, my main concern was that Roma and the other Italian cities would be population runaway trains.

Well, Epeirote Type II governments give a -1% population penalty. There's also the Colony building wich also gives -1%.
Both will become quite handy because when I've pacified Italia I intend to carve it up entirely into farming estates :yes:

Off topic, is it intentional that Epeiros can't recruit Pezhetairoi in Ambrakia or Epidamnos any longer?

[Lord Gruffles]

Fenring!

I'm happy to see another Epeiros player weigh in here. So you are saying that despite the fact you cannot recruit anything with level 1 Local MIC you can, indeed, recruit units with level 2? How about level 2, 3 or above Faction MIC? Any word on those?

Thanks in advance for your further input.

[Kull]

Kull, I appreciate your input. I was not expecting to outfit an entire army from Italy.

That wasn't really directed at you. It's just a little frustrating sometimes when fans complain about not being able to recruit lots of units in every province they conquer. With some exceptions, that capability is really ahistorical, and I'm glad EB hasn't succumbed to the desires of those fans who wish units could be spammed everywhere by everybody.

The hastati and equites are recruitable only in the three central provinces which were purely Italic. Capua has it's greek cultural background, hence the units you can get there. Rorarii can be had in six provinces.

[Lord Gruffles]

No worries Kull. I empathize with your perdicament.

So far I have discovered that I can recruite Hastati and Rorarii in Roma, Hellenic Skirmishers and Hellenic Slingers in Capua and Rorarii in Arpi. I'm in the middle of an expansion phase and have to spend most of my money on troops right now. But after I solidify my gains I will focus on building more MICs in Italy and find out what more I can build then. Again, as long as I can recruit some troops I am happy. Also, taking note of the fact Roma, Capua and Arpi can have Level 2 Type Govt down the road I feel fairly comfortable with their collective fast population growth.

Long live Pyrrhos! Love live Epeiros! :2thumbsup:

[L.C.Cinna]

Is there any kind of list, at least for the areas where you can recruit special units?

I play as Rome and it would be interesting to know what type 3 or 4 governments would give me in some regions. I build type 2 everywhere and are comfortable with that so far. would just be interesting, especially because I can't build any cavalry after the Marian reforms. so it would be nice to know one or two areas where the regional MICs give me the possivility to recruit some cavalry. thank you.

btw love the system. it's really great this way :)

[cunctator]

No, but something similar is planned in future.

After the marian reforms factional MICs in some regions will give you access to a few late republican auxiliary cavalry units. (Equites Gallorum, Thracum, Germanorum and Hispanorum, recruitable in the corresbonding geographical regions.)

[brymht]

OK, I'm currently playing .81, and am realyl liking it. I've subjugated most of Europe which Germania does not control.

However, I've done extenssive modding to the AOR; adding a few units which the romans employed to their recruitment scope (Thracian Skirmishers, Balaeric Slingers, Etc) and have started to notice that I can no longer see some units that existed for the Romani in the customer battle unit chooser.

Is there a maximum ammount of units a faction can have? What is it? If I have surpassed the unit maximum, can all faction units still be created in the campaign game?

Thanks

[Ludens]

If I have surpassed the unit maximum, can all faction units still be created in the campaign game?
There is no maximum units a faction can have (as far as I know), but there is a limit to how much units the custom battle screen can show, and I think EB already surpassed that number for the Romans.

[brymht]

Ah, IC. So this does not affect the ability to recruit these units in the campaign game?

[Ludens]

Ah, IC. So this does not affect the ability to recruit these units in the campaign game?
It doesn't.

[Caesar Vastator]

Hi all.
i have finished a Casse campaign 0.80 with no problems and now i have started a Romani campaign with 081a. I have noticed something strange. Is it normal that i cant build faction Mic in conquered region with Type 1 Gov and i can build only regional Mic that give me some units??? Here is an example
https://img454.imageshack.us/img454/9719/examplevm0.th.jpg (https://img454.imageshack.us/my.php?image=examplevm0.jpg)
I think i have done all right (new Map.RWM and activating the script each time i loaded)
cheers

[Lord Gruffles]

Did you repair the Type 1 Govt Building when you conquered Taras or did you tear the Epeiros one that was there down and start from scratch with your own Roman Type 1 Govt Building? :inquisitive:

[Foot]

Before the polybian reforms you cannot build factional MICs outside your starting provinces, and you cannot build factional MICs outside the italian penisular until you have achieved the marian reforms.

Foot

[Caesar Vastator]

Before the polybian reforms you cannot build factional MICs outside your starting provinces, and you cannot build factional MICs outside the italian penisular until you have achieved the marian reforms.

Foot
Ok! Thanks!:beam:

[blacksnail]

You know, we should really make the Romani barracks locations a part of the Camillan Reform image.

[blacksnail]

Before the polybian reforms you cannot build factional MICs outside your starting provinces, and you cannot build factional MICs outside the italian penisular until you have achieved the marian reforms.
Starting + Segesta, actually.

[Static]

Can someone help me out, I just took over a land that really isn't far at all from my homeland, it has the subjugation trait. I'm sweboz btw.

Now, first off the government in place is the type II, which is what I would have wanted, but it made me wonder what if that building had been in there homeland and was a type I? It's a homeland building but isn't in my homeland.

Anyways, so I take this land over, and it has the warrior gathering, so i build a field army house, and I still can't produce anyone? So I check the next building, and after I build that I can finally produce 1 unit? So i'm gonna spend like 15 turns, and countless money to be able to produce one unit type in a type II government that isn't far from my homeland? Is that how it's supposed to work?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

We don't have all the regional units in yet. That's the biggest problem. All factions have problems in the baltic sea areas though because no real faction troops are available there, but not that many regionals are done yet either.

[Modern Warrior]

Quick question regarding the Polybian reforms.

I'm playing the Romani and I'm currently in the year 221 BC. I have conquored all of the Italian Penninsula and I have the Polybian reforms.

The problem is that I have a level 2 MIC in Taras and cam only recruit velites. I right click on the level three MIC in my building browser and it tells me at the next level I can still only recruit velites.

At what level MIC can I recruit hastati, principes, etc in my Italian, non-homeland Gov I provinces?

I'm at war with Epiros (although they're clinging to their last two provinces), the Adieu (although it's hot and cold) and a major war in Southern Gaul with carthage (almost a reenactment of the Second Punic War) and I really need the manpower as carthage is throwing huge, tough stacks at me.

Most of my money is going to train the army and I really can't afford to be building MICs if they only going to yield velites.

Thanks

[LorDBulA]

You can build velites, hastati, principes and triari in Taras AFTER Polybian Reforms.
Since Polybian troops are in different tier of buildings You Have to upgrade MIC after reforms.

[Lysander13]

I did not want to open a thread to ask just one question and this one seems like the most relevant one..relatively speaking. So pardon if it's a bit off topic.

Is it possible for someone to tell me what the following hidden_resource entries in the EDB represent.

EA SW NW A B C D E y1 y2 y4 y8 n1 n2 n4 n8

I'm making a few adjustments in my EDB for personal use only and want to be clear on what those entries represent. Not to mention i happen to be one of these freaks who just has to know how everything works. For really no other reason than just knowing :yes:

I was just comparing the EB81a EDB code to vanilla and a couple of other mods. It strikes me it's like comparing a Tom Clancy novel to a couple of memos stapled together. Fascinatingly complex!! The work put into the EB recruitment system is phenomenal.

[Arkatreides]

The hidden resources are a way to number the provinces. It is basically binary, y1 meaning the '1' digit is present, 'y2' meaning the '2' digit is present etc. and nX meaning the 'X' digit is absent.

[Lysander13]

The hidden resources are a way to number the provinces. It is basically binary, y1 meaning the '1' digit is present, 'y2' meaning the '2' digit is present etc. and nX meaning the 'X' digit is absent.

Got it..Thanks for the quick reply. How can i find out which province is represented in binary code?...For example y1 = which province?

Not to mention the following code entries
EA SW NW A B C D E What do these represent?

Edit: Thank you LorDBuIA that is exactly what i was looking for.

[LorDBulA]

Check out desc_regions.txt file in Rome - Total War\EB\Data\world\maps\base\

Example of province:


Aquitae
Burdigala
gauls
Tarbelli
154 162 97
wine, NW, A, n1, n2, y4, n8
5
2



EA SW NW A B C D E What do these represent?
This means that in region with EA SW NW A B C D E hidden resources You will be able to recruit this unit in this building.

[blacksnail]

We may be able to help out. I need to check and see if there's something we can release to the public forums.

EDIT: Take a peek at the last link in my .sig.

[artavazd]

im macedon, and inorder to get the spartans from sparta i need a level 4 type government, then build the local mic?

I have a level 4 govt. on the island of crete, but all i get from the local mic is the classic hoplites. How far do i have to build up the local mic to get the cretean archers?

[Foot]

Only KH can get spartans. They are the only faction that can maintain the agoge training that is required to maintain the spartan military tradition.

Foot

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Cretean Archers : L4MIC

[Lysander13]

Thanks for the link Blacksnail...You and LordBuIA answered my questions exactly. My thanks to you both. :2thumbsup:

[blacksnail]

No problem. Understand that the map was completely arbitrary as the numbering scheme was not needed for human eyes, but purely as a background pseudo-binary substitute.

[artavazd]

Cretean Archers : L4MIC



so level 4 govt building ( which makes crete allied) then local level 4 mic correct?

[Primative1]

Hi all. Been playing the game & lurking these boards for a few months now.

1st post so I'd like to thank everyone involved for a superb, engrossing mod, this is the game RTW should have been.

One thing I'm not too clear on.....I've read that in order to build Polybian units I have to upgrade my MIC. What is meant by 'upgrade' in this context?

Do I have to build the top tier Barracks in my cities or is there something else I need to do. Hope someone can spell it out for me.

ps yep, I do have 'Polybian' showing in Rome & other cities.

[Pharnakes]

All you have to do is build the next level of mic, and don't worry about your level 5mics, you don't have to tear them down and start again, as the Cammilian level 5mic allows the construction of the polybian level 5mic straight off.

[blacksnail]

If you right-click on the next level of barracks to be built in the Romani cities with the Polybian Era indicator, you should see Polybian units. Essentially as your city expands and the barracks are expanded they revamp and refurbish the old training methods with the new.

[Primative1]

Thanks guys.

Just spent 12000 on the next level barracks in Rome. Can't afford it really but Carthage is throwing some really tough units at me now.

Not to mention what those bollock-naked Gallic buggers are doing to my Hastati.

[epaminondas]

Hey, gang. first post, long time player. GREAT MOD.

Question, i've read over this whole MIC/reform thread and still have one question:

I'm playing as the Romans and just went through the Marian reforms. Prior, when i went through the Polybian reforms I was still able to use my older Camillian buildings to keep armies of older units stocked. Under the Marian reforms it seems all of my old buildings (camilian & polybian) are damaged and unusable (even if i repiar them, they just "re-break" next turn). My issue is now i can no longer make skirmisher, archer, but most importantly cavalry units. I've built the highest level barracks in Rome, but no cavalry or skirmisher/archer are available. My armies are going to suffer some serious set-backs if there are no cavalry available for me other than the Illyrian light cav i can make in Segesta. So, long question short:
1.) why am i having so much trouble building "alien" cavalry units, even though most of my MICs are of level III, even some of my level IV (in egypt) have trouble getting to a high enough level to build cavalry. Is there a time limit that a settlement must be within your civlization prior to being able to access certain units?
2.) when, under the marian reforms will i be able to build archers, skirmishers, cavalry in level I MICs?

Thanks again, great job!

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

There are only 9 buildings allowed per building tree. In the Camilian/Polybian MIC tree there is a level 1 barracks then 4 Camilian and 4 Polybian 2-4th level MICs. In order to have another era, another building tree is needed. Since you can't upgrade from one tree to a different tree, the script places Marian MICs and damages Polybian MICs. Just tear down all of your Polybian MICs.

Rome is a faction that used heavy infantry. They didn't use a whole lot of cavalry or archers. There is no 'Roman' cavalry or archers in the Marian era. There are a few auxilia cavalry units in Gaul, Iberia, Germania, and Thrace. For the most part the Romans had to use allied (regional) missile and cavalry units when they needed them.

Not all regions have cavalry. Egypt is one of these regions. Do not expect all kinds of units from everywhere. The EB system is based on what kinds of units that historically a faction used from an area, what they would have used, or what type of natives would be willing to work for a faction. This leaves some places will little to no units to recruit.

And welcome!