HAs and guerrilla tactics

[Zanshin]

I've not played any faction with HAs.

Is there wnything that stops a faction with HAs from simply massing them, attacking, emptying the quivers and retreating? Over and over.

[Aelwyn]

I just started playing MTW2 last night, but I have yet to encounter what you've talked about. I've basically been all over the map though.

One thing I did notice about the "passive AI" though, is their continuous attacking and retreating while in a battle, while new, has also been combined with them being even more dumb. Usually, when you attack one unit, several other AI units will respond to help the one being attacked. That doesn't seem to happen in this version. It would spell their death if I had enough men, but I have been outnumbered and outclassed almost every battle, somehow. So I've been taking out 80-95% of my opponents, but still losing.

Besides this, I haven't seen this passive AI. The AI in my campaign is attacking the hell out of me, every turn. I'm in the hole monetarily, and struggling against larger armies. They have me on the ropes.

Now if the AI could try to stop letting me get units behind them unopposed, they would be winning battles with much better results.

But I do have to say, I only lost 1-5 battles per campaign in MTW 1. I think I've lost 4 within 25 years in MTW2. So either I'm doing worse (more likely, I havent play TW in about a year) or the AI is going better.

I guess it'll take a few weeks to figure it out. btw I'm France.

[Merlin's Apprentice]

The passive Ai doesnt refer to campaign map AI
just to the battlefield Ai that lines up in front of you and sits there
If your the defense type that uses missle units you could wipe the battlefield clean

[IPoseTheQuestionYouReturnTheAnswer]

You can mass, empty quivers, and retreat, but you'll get a loss for the battle along with all accompanying disadvantages associated with a defeat, i.e., lots of extra individual losses in your army and a drop in loyalty.

[Zanshin]

You can mass, empty quivers, and retreat, but you'll get a loss for the battle along with all accompanying disadvantages associated with a defeat, i.e., lots of extra individual losses in your army and a drop in loyalty.
Thanks very much, that was the answer I was looking for.

I suppose the loss of loyalty doesn't apply to troops without a general but I have no idea if there is a way of avoiding the extra troop loss for losing. And general-less troops tend to rebel anyway.

[Quillan]

If you are referring to take an army of horse archers, attack someone, and retreat from the battle once the quivers are empty, then you can only do it once. Aside from the consequences of losing the battle (you'll lose troops even if you lost no one in the fight and retreated off under your own power), the army will use up all its movement in retreating, meaning the other army can do whatever it wants in its own turn. Of course, you can always attack it again in your next turn if your army is still around.

[Shahed]

This is something I always wanted to do in MTW as well.

Raise a raider group. Send it into the enemy lands not for winning battles but for diverting enemy formations and resources to combat the raiders. The raiders would fight battles with the single aim of inflicting as many casualties as possible, not only by missile fire but also by annihilating isolated units/armies.

They would then retreat away from larger forces, compelling them to commit more forces to hunting down the raider group. Meanwhile the main friendly armies would be marching in to eat the main course, once the raiders had their share.

Nothing new here. Standard, ancient doctrine.

With the inclusion of the akinci, it really got me thinking hwo I can do this without the negative penalties. If anything it should give positive traits, bonuses, as I'm doing exactly what the Turks did. And this would hurt BIIG time.

Normally against a large Byzantine army/ies (1500+ men) I think about emptying the quivers, taking out a few units which are isolated, minimise my casualties, and retreat. Then come back again soften them some more and if the opportunity arises finish them. Of course I don't do that because I know I'll probably get loads of negative traits and loss of authority ect because the game will view it as a loss, failing to see the overall strategy and it's result. So I usually fight this kind of battle withk the aim of victory rather than attrition.

As an all cavalry player you are always outnumbered (as was the case in Anatolia historically). So you have to be careful how many men you lose, they will not be replaced quickly, since you will have to keep moving your replacements will take time to reach you. Also every man you lose increases the numerical advantage of the enemy. As he is on his territory, his replacements will reach him faster than you.

[Zanshin]

you'll lose troops even if you lost no one in the fight and retreated off under your own power
More units than what you kill? (I suppose this is a yes)
What if time ends? (Never had a fight started by me in clear ground end by time)


the army will use up all its movement in retreating, meaning the other army can do whatever it wants in its own turn. Of course, you can always attack it again in your next turn if your army is still around.
If they attack, the army would be able to empty quiver and go. If they run, the HAs are fast.


With the inclusion of the akinci, it really got me thinking hwo I can do this without the negative penalties
The army could travel without a commander. Less kills are not important, risk of rebellion can be partially fought doing this always near opponent cities.


For clarity's sake, I don't think this would ever work, I'm just interested in why wouldn't it. As far as we went, the unit loss for resign seems the main drawback, and I don't know how deaths/resign compares to kills/quiver.

[Doug-Thompson]

Although it's already been mentioned, let's have it stated explicitly again: You can do that IF you have movement points left.

In fact, that could be done in RTW. You just didn't get much of a chance unless you were the Parthians, at least not until the Barbarian expansion.

I also agree with Sinan. It's a little silly to kill 500 enemy troops without losing a man, especially when deep in enemy territory, and be saddled with a "defeat."

[Orda Khan]

Unfortunately, trying to replicate HA based army tactics in TW are very limited. Even in STW there was the 'Benny Hill' code. Using your armies in historical HA fashion brings negative penalties for doing precisely what you intended.
We were NOT defeated we INTENDED to retreat. Maybe the ability to enter an option before battle, declaring your aims would be a nice addition?

.....Orda