View Full Version : So, the guys with the knives scare the guys with glorious armour and big weapons?
Hello, I just defended my city of Reims with a few upgraded units of halberd militia against an overwhelming force of dismounted feudal knights. My glorious army defended the town square and routed them all. Of course my militia got somewhat decimated but the only enemies left were some trbuchet and catapult crews standing around outside the city walls, having no ammunition left. Sounds like an easy win, doesn't it? Well, it does not, because most of my militia ran away before there even was an engagement. The same guys who gloriously fought against an overwhelming force of footnights would not dare to walk up to some engineers with knives...:wall:
Picture:
https://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/husar1985/Medieval%202/medieval22006-12-1301-26-14-98.jpg
Well, those on the picture did engage the crew, for about a second...
Is it possible that the morale drop of artillery fire is somehow attached to the crew as well? I noticed this behaviour quite often, a catapult crew can often make my whole militia run, especially when they take or have already taken some losses. In this case, I saw no way out except ending the battle and losing the city to the catapult crew.:wall:
I hope this will be fixed.
that screenshot looks pretty =(, mines crappy
Marius Dynamite
12-13-2006, 01:51
I know, Artillery crews are overpowered.
On another note: I had a ballista and broke into my enemies city. I killed all his men except he had 14 ballista men left.. I had Feudal knights and Noble Highlanders. The Nobles had 30 men and solver chevron. I had about a minute on the town square but I wanted to kill the enemy ballista men. They had abandoned their pieces. Now my ballista was also in the city down one of the streets. I charged after the enemy ballistamen and they ran down the street, took my empty ballista and loaded it. My men were about to chop them when they fired the On-fire Firebolt and killed 10 of my men and routed them. It was like a movie.. Terrific AI manouvere and fun to watch.
Your militia were probably suffering morale penalties from prolonged fighting earlier and broke when ordered to charge again. Ever notice how troops that break and rally will sometimes flee again when they come within range of the enemy? I remember MTW when my entire glorious Byzantine host broke and fled soley because they were "disheartened by constant retreating from the enemy". So much for bold outflanking maneuvers...
I have lost entire late general's bodyguards to artillery crew before... no free frags in M2TW...
If anyone needs to wear that much armor into combat they're pansies, so congrats on routing the pansy parade.
Your militia were probably suffering morale penalties from prolonged fighting earlier and broke when ordered to charge again.
That would make sense but their morale was back to normal and considerably dropped when they approached the catapult, they did not rout when they engaged some crossbowmen in the city streets. It's not a sibgle case even, I had some halberd militia rout when four units of them engaged a small army of milanese who defended a catapult, my men did not suffer any great casualties but started to run away even though they should have easily won. Those artillery crews seem to lower the morale of anything that comes close and only high morale units can keep fighting in their vicinity.
What was the fatigue level of your militia ?
Those runes of immolation, that's what it is...
FactionHeir
12-13-2006, 03:06
I agree with Sinan, its likely your fatigue level after fighting off the other knights. Exhausted/very tired greatly affects morale when near an enemy.
The other thing is, I can see on your radar map that your men were not together. I found it best to send them in a line, so they cover each other's flanks (gives morale bonus)
Also, while inside the city, your units have morale and defense boni, but once you leave the city, those vanish.
Artillery crews are quite powerful actually in melee as I learned the hard way before, but I wouldn't think they would make thise many troops rout at once.
Maybe you should have let your troops rest a bit? (stand around and let the time flow on x3 to refresh troops)
My troops were exhausted, I sent three of them together and only sent them exhausted because standing behind the city gate resulted in two of them changing from exhausted to very exhausted. I don't know, I just don't think it is correct that I lost a city to two knife-armed catapult crews just because my (supposedly way superior)militia wanted to sleep in bed with their teddies.:wall:
I already took it back with some ranged cavalry(they forgot to repair the walls...), slaughtering everybody, but the Milanese exterminated the population and destroyed my barracks and mayor's palace(maybe more), rendering me unable to produce any good infantry for now. And all that because some guys with their swiss knives produced a stalemate(I could have rushed and routed my militia without end since I do not use the battle timer, it would have never ended).:juggle2:
Shadow_Wolf33
12-13-2006, 04:03
Dude...those knives are pointy! They could poke an eye out!
Zenicetus
12-13-2006, 07:28
Dude...those knives are pointy! They could poke an eye out!
Tell me about it. Full plate Warrior PvP against a Rogue... oh, wait, wrong game. :laugh4:
This needs to be tested to make sure it's not a bug, with arty units applying arty morale loss to melee fighting with the crews. The crews should flee for their lives if they're unsupported by other units.
[QUOTE=Zenicetus]Tell me about it. Full plate Warrior PvP against a Rogue... oh, wait, wrong game. :laugh4: [QUOTE]
Warriors are gimped in PvP anyways. Only there to get CC'd and finished off afterwards.
Sounds like play with no time limit, otherwise you could have waited them out.
I switched to time limit for this reason.
hard to say why they routed but exhausted guys swinging a heavy halberd would be easy to stab by fresh troops.
But numbers alone wlda kept the square and thus won the battle if timer ran down.
Well, I can't stand having a clock ticking in field battles, it can easily make me nervous and I play for fun...
Just weird to see how halberd militia can defend a city against a general and several units of dismounted knights only to give up in front of a few guys armed with knives, I mean they were already exhausted fioghting the footknights, but they didn't run then(and no, they were not all inside the town square). It's just...wrong...:no:
crpcarrot
12-13-2006, 18:07
i havnet had a halberd unit yet but in MTW they had very low morale and tended to run pretty quickly if not properly supported, and i also noticed that billmen have very low defence maybe its the same for all 2 handers?
maybe its the same for all 2 handers?
No, my "Zweihänder" can rip catapults apart, but they also have pretty high morale, same goes for mounted knights, only the militia prefer to lose their home city(and family and friends...) to a knife wielding catapult crew.:shrug:
Bob the Insane
12-13-2006, 19:35
The OP stated the militia was defending the Town Square from the Knights and as such where immune to routing at that time.
Now you take them out of the town square and try attacking the enemy and morale is in effect again. Were you playing on VH? And what unit size are you using (on normal your units have suffered 50% casulaties)? And finally what is the fatigue level of the troops?
I have had all sorts of problems getting militia units to stay in a stand up fight. In the open it is not so bad as you can form you units up to protect flanks and keep the general near. But trying to assault a settlement with militia can lead to all sorts of morale problems and unit get separated and take casualties.
Did you try forming you remaining militia men up and marching slowing on the enemy before engaging? You might have, but without a general and with tha casualties they ahve taken they may simply not be up to the job...
OP: nothing is wrong with the game. This is CA's concept of balance.
Deal with it.
Well, I can't stand having a clock ticking in field battles, it can easily make me nervous and I play for fun...
Just weird to see how halberd militia can defend a city against a general and several units of dismounted knights only to give up in front of a few guys armed with knives, I mean they were already exhausted fioghting the footknights, but they didn't run then(and no, they were not all inside the town square). It's just...wrong...:no:
In RTW I hated the timer, it seemed I was rushed to capture during sieges and if bombarded the area first then hit the walls and on to the square I would get to rushing the square.
I play leisurely as well and the first thing when started my long campaign was turn the timer off. Then I was introduced to the passive AI bug and during sieges this is a pain if the army just sits there during a sally.
So I went to options and changed it, surprisingly you have alot of time to play with and I have yet had the clock run out unless I did it intentionally by speeding up time. But it can be changed on campaign map so could try it out.
I am confused by 1 thing tho, I thought all routed units run BACK to the square and not off the map if they are defending? Or did the AI pursue to the square and wipe the men out there as well?
The way I fight the AI there, it seems like its fight to the last man trigger anyways or holding it for 3 minutes with more men.
Plus I wonder if it wasnt a bug to not allow them to rest instead of getting more tired.
IMO I just think leaving the safety of the walls, plus the fatigue level is what did it. It sounds like a bug was at work with resting.
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