Victory conditions

[Gazius]

I'd just like to note that memphis is still the ptolemiac capital when it should be alexandria.

Anyways, my main point is, what is the justification for a lot of the victory conditions of the factions? I had a much longer post with points for every faction, however the forum crashed and killed it. Are these open to player suggestions/thoughts at all? If so, I'll retype what I had.

Question: Would it be possible to do a quick mod for the faction victory conditions trait, rename it to something like "Envisions a grand empire..." and put the justification/historical information for why its determined to be where it is? I greatly enjoy all the historical information contained in this mod, having found it to be a great way to learn many things I previously didn't know about the time period, from the events and traits to the unique wonders. I sincerely hope this is continually improved upon as the mod nears 1.00.

Also, what are the black areas in the victory conditions. Area's that must be raided? Are the maps just the area's we need to control, and everything type in the victory conditions trait/advisor pop up in the faction information still applies, or are the maps definitive?

How hard is it to edit the victory conditions to suit one's desire?

[sages]

How hard is it to edit the victory conditions to suit one's desire?

I'm also interested in doing this. This was very easy in Rome. I believe it's in a script for EB that does a "do you own a, b, c, if so, win" check, but I was not able to find it.

Can one of the EB folks tell me what file the victory conditions are stored in?

[LorDBulA]

Short description.
Components of Victory Conditions in EB:

Map that shows Victory conditions (you can see it in faction screen).
I dont know where it stored so TK or anyone please fill this gap.

Traits that provide description. You dont have to touch trigers so you only need to change Traits descriptions.

Scripts. All stored inside EBBS_Script.txt file in EB\Data\scripts\show_me\ folder.

Show Victory Conditions Script. Look for
SHOW VICTORY CONDITIONS

This script is responsible for showing VC when you go to faction scroll and press ? button.
This will be a bit difficult to understand.

Victory Script can be found in section:


; Victory Conditions


This is really simple.
Example form 0.8


monitor_event CharacterTurnStart FactionType spain
and CharacterIsLocal
and I_NumberOfSettlements seleucid = 0
and I_NumberOfSettlements egypt = 0
and I_SettlementOwner Emain_Macha = spain
and I_SettlementOwner Ivernis = spain
and I_SettlementOwner Lemonum = spain
and I_SettlementOwner Avaricum = spain
and I_SettlementOwner Burdigala = spain
and I_SettlementOwner Gergovia = spain
and I_SettlementOwner Tolosa = spain
and I_SettlementOwner Tyde = spain
and I_SettlementOwner Pallantia = spain
and I_SettlementOwner Vellika = spain
and I_SettlementOwner Emporion = spain
and I_SettlementOwner Massalia = spain
and I_SettlementOwner Segesta = spain
and I_SettlementOwner Arretium = spain
and I_SettlementOwner Rome = spain
and I_SettlementOwner Numantia = spain
and I_SettlementOwner Oxtraca = spain
and I_SettlementOwner Arse = spain
and I_SettlementOwner Baikor = spain
and I_SettlementOwner Mastia = spain
and I_SettlementOwner Bocchoris = spain
and I_SettlementOwner Gader = spain
and I_SettlementOwner Tingis = spain
and I_SettlementOwner Siga = spain
and I_SettlementOwner Ippone = spain
and I_SettlementOwner Kart_Hadast = spain
and I_CompareCounter victory = 0

console_command create_building Terhazza hinterland_victory

console_command victory spain

terminate_monitor
end_monitor

So if you only want to change VC for your pleasure and dont expect to see exact info in Traits/Maps/Show VC then its easy.
But changing all will not be so easy.

[sages]

That's awesome -- that's just what I need.

I'm not worried about updating the map or traits (at least for now) as I can always check the scripts if I can't remember what I changed.

What I will probably do is something like:

I_NumberOfSettlment myfaction = 20

I_SettlementOwner keyproviceA = me
I_SettlementOwner keyproviceB = me
I_SettlementOwner keyproviceC = me

Maybe contrary to the careful research and balancing that the EB folks have done, but makes me happy. :=)

[Teleklos Archelaou]

What year was the capital moved to Alexandria? You say it needs to be - you might be right. What is the information that says in 272 it's wrong to have it in Memphis still? I've seen a few different numbers mentioned, some that would have it moved, some not. The books I have on the ptolemies isn't clear on it.

[BozosLiveHere]

Keep in mind that there's also some trait work to be done if you want to add/change raiding targets.

[Gazius]

What year was the capital moved to Alexandria? You say it needs to be - you might be right. What is the information that says in 272 it's wrong to have it in Memphis still? I've seen a few different numbers mentioned, some that would have it moved, some not. The books I have on the ptolemies isn't clear on it.

I have it in one of my history books, A history of rome down to the reign of constatine or something like that. I'll post back here with an answer. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it was Alexandria.

Also, would it be possible to get any answer at all about the victory conditions if just a very short answer on it?

[Gazius]

Ok, I'm not seeing a specific date as of yet, however, I'll quote the full passage.


After the death of Alexander in 323, his empire was split up into a number of succession-states, of which only three were at all comparable in resources to the Roman Republic of the third century. Of the three first-class powers in the 'Hellenistic' world the dynasty of the Ptolemies ruled over Egypt, Cyrene, Cyprus, the greater part of Syria, and a chain of maritime stations in the Levantine and Aegean seas; their capital was established at Alexandria, the greatest of Alexander's colonies in the east.

A History of Rome: Down to the Reign of Constantine by M. Cary and H.H Scullard.

I realize that websites aren't exactly a choice source for EB, however:
http://www.temple.edu/bulletin/ugradbulletin/ucd/ucd_ghrclassics2.html

At the death of Alexander his general Ptolemy moved the capital of Egypt from Memphis to Alexandria....

It seems that some time during the rule of Ptolemy I the capital was moved, from 323 to 284, all of which is before the EB time frame.

Concerning the province to be removed from the Sahara, I personally think it should make an appearance in the Aegean or Levantine, as it is, the Makedons and Ptolemies have no reason to engage each other in war, while a near by ptolemiac island may interest them in war with Ptolemy, or vice versa. I'd love to see seleukia or ptolemy in greece.

I'm very curious to hear to the victory conditions answer, looking forward to it.

[LorDBulA]

I'm very curious to hear to the victory conditions answer, looking forward to it.
Look at post 3.

[Gazius]

Look at post 3.

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear, I mean not how to mod the conditions to my taste, but what determined the victory conditions as set by EB. Why would Makedon not try to reclaim Alexanders empire? Would the Gauls, if they seized control of modern france, not try to expand east back to asia minor? Would carthage have been content with Iberia and Rome? What about the riches of greece? Or taking control of the modern day UK? Why does Epeiros want to take most of what was alexanders empire, did Epeirotes serve as the generals of either infantry or calvary when the empire was split and then proceed to get cut out? Rome's determined victory conditions I can understand, that was their fullest expansion, same with Pahlava, and I assume Baktria to some extent. Saba creates a full eastern trading empire on both straits and the med, ok.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

What year was the capital moved to Alexandria? You say it needs to be - you might be right. What is the information that says in 272 it's wrong to have it in Memphis still? I've seen a few different numbers mentioned, some that would have it moved, some not. The books I have on the ptolemies isn't clear on it.

I have noticed something stupid about the AI that somewhat makes this arguement moot. With 1.5, the AI is given the ability to move its capital even if it is not lost. Usually you end up seeing the capital in the middle of the empire dispite the size and importance of the city. In my campaign Carthage has moved their capital to the town of Siga and the Seleucids have move their capital to the large town of Susa, dispite having a huge city right next to it (named after their founder). Does anyone know how to disable this "feature"?

[Gazius]

I have noticed something stupid about the AI that somewhat makes this arguement moot. With 1.5, the AI is given the ability to move its capital even if it is not lost. Usually you end up seeing the capital in the middle of the empire dispite the size and importance of the city. In my campaign Carthage has moved their capital to the town of Siga and the Seleucids have move their capital to the large town of Susa, dispite having a huge city right next to it (named after their founder). Does anyone know how to disable this "feature"?

Are you sure they didn't just lose the city to rebels or ptolemies? I'm pretty sure susa is designated as the next capital of seleukia pending the fall of antioch. Or at least every .74 ptolemy campaign I've played would say so.

[Sir Edward]

Backstory. In my Carthage Campaign I had several faction leaders with anti-Barcid trait, and this got me wondering, role-playing wise why I should be sending my generals to fight in Italy instead of say securing the N. Aftrican coast when the leader's don't approve of these moves?

So a question to EB, Is it possible to have as a Victory Condition that your leader is required to have a certain trait? What I'm thinking of doing is having a trait called Leader's Dream (which details specific settlements he wants to conquer). There may be multiple versions of Leader's Dream (and variants) based on current conditions; which factions are currently at war, personal dislike of certain cultures, historically impotant cities, or barcid/anti-barcid. Only when this trait is fulfilled will the leader receive the trait Leader's Dream Accomplished. I want it to be a Victory Condition that Leader's Dream be Accomplished in order to win.

So feedback, is this even feasible? It would be a nice touch making every campaign unique, and I realize in this EB mod there would be no way to use the help button to show which cities must be conquered.

[Atilius]

So a question to EB, Is it possible to have as a Victory Condition that your leader is required to have a certain trait?
Yes.

In fact, this is how we keep track of raiding targets. As an example, here is the section of EBBS_SCRIPT.TXT which handles the Sweboz victory conditions:


;--------------------------
; SWEBOZ Victory Conditions
;--------------------------
monitor_event CharacterTurnStart FactionType germans
and CharacterIsLocal
and I_SettlementOwner Swebotraustastamnoz = germans
and I_SettlementOwner Gawjam_Heruskoz = germans
and I_SettlementOwner Gawjam_Habukoz = germans
and I_SettlementOwner Gawjam_Hattoz = germans
and I_SettlementOwner Gawjam_Kimbroz = germans
and I_SettlementOwner Gawjam_Rugoz = germans
and I_SettlementOwner Gawjam_Skandzawarjoz = germans
and I_SettlementOwner Gawjam_Gotanoz = germans
and I_SettlementOwner Eburonum = germans
and I_SettlementOwner Gawjam_Silengoz = germans
and I_SettlementOwner Bibracte = germans
and I_SettlementOwner Vindelicoppidos = germans
and I_SettlementOwner Vesontio = germans
and I_SettlementOwner Bagacos = germans
and I_SettlementOwner Bratosporios = germans
and I_SettlementOwner Gawjam_Bastarnoz = germans
and Trait ConqueredAventicos > 0
and Trait ConqueredVeldideno > 0
and Trait ConqueredIuvavoaeta > 0
and Trait ConqueredCarrodunum > 0
and Trait ConqueredViennos > 0
and Trait ConqueredPatavium > 0
and Trait ConqueredAscaucalis > 0
and I_CompareCounter victory = 0

console_command create_building Terhazza hinterland_victory

console_command victory germans

terminate_monitor
end_monitor

It would be easy for you to add a condition that the faction leader has a certain trait. Just add something like:


and FactionLeaderTrait Sometrait > 0

[Sir Edward]

Thanks for your prompt reply Atilius, I am glad to hear this could become a reality with a little effort. I have some experience with scripting using HTML and C++, so I think I could get a handle on the programming language, but have never tried my hand at in depth modding of RTW files. Could someone point me to a good website where they explain the commands I can use and which files that would need to be modified for victory conditions and traits? I have upcoming finals and also going to be taking my MCAT later this month, so obviously I won't be doing anything with EB for a few weeks. But after that I would like to devote some time to this unofficial project.

[LorDBulA]

Take a look at this: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=46738&highlight=scripting+for+beginers

There is also intermediate guide but this one has all the references You will need.
Good luck.

[temenid]

I like your idea, Sir Edward. Changing the ambitions of your people/leader would make for much more varied campaigns. For example, my Pahlav campaign is currently proceeding on the basis that we wish to establish an empire centred on Pella, and raid Britain. But it'd be so much cooler if my leader had an actual trait, perhaps with some kind of reward for success.

Good luck with your assessments, and let me know when you get back to work on this stuff. I'd be interested to help if I can.

[Redmeth]

But what happens when a faction leader dies and another comes to power with different traits (like a Barcid succeeding an anti-Barcid) even if the victory conditions can be changed on the fly through the script and triggers would it really work?

[Sir Edward]

But what happens when a faction leader dies and another comes to power with different traits (like a Barcid succeeding an anti-Barcid) even if the victory conditions can be changed on the fly through the script and triggers would it really work?


Maybe I'm not understanding your question Redmeth, but the way I imagine this trait at the moment is that there will be a core group of provicences that a faction will be required to get no matter what. On top of that, there should be certain conditions that the faction leader wants achieved before victory can be claimed in his mind. The condition could have nothing to do with conquering land or destroying faction, maybe he's a trader and wants a huge treasury and a huge market present, maybe he's very religious and demands the largest temple be built for his patron deity, maybe he's a patron of the arts and want to have gaming fields and theaters in all settlements. The conditions should reflect the personality of the current leader. If a leader dies before his dream is fulfilled it becomes null, and only the current leaders dream is considered.