Attacking Rome?

[Flavius Gonzo]

Has anyone invaded Rome as an islamic faction? What were the consequences?

In my H/VH turkish campaign, I'm currently mopping up the venetians, and I'm looking to start planning my next war. It's probably a few turns off because I'm expecting mongol visitors in baghdad soon, however, the most logical next move for me is into the italian peninsula.

My strategy has been to expand across the northern coast of the mediteranian, aagean & adriatic seas, occupying coastal towns, while forming a strong alliance with the hugarians to the north to serve as a buffer against invasion by other factions. I also have a very important alliance with the French.

However, if I get into a war with the papal states, will I incur a penalty in my relations with the french or hungarians? Neither has a papal states alliance, but I'm not sure if there would be other consequences.

[FactionHeir]

When I attacked Rome as the Turks, all my catholic allies started betraying their alliances. I didn't have a crusade called against me though as the last one was too current (against Antioch)

Its not that bad though. If you have an army large enough to fight your way through Rome, it will be good enough to take over Europe.

[IPoseTheQuestionYouReturnTheAnswer]

I took Rome as the Turks around turn 80 or something. I declared a Jihad on the city and sailed there, made it there from Constantinople in about three turns. Love those Jihads.

As soon as I took it, the Pope declared a crusade on Rome. At least 10 or 12 stacks of crusaders came toward the city, most of which I defeated outside the city, and on that little bridge right next to Rome. Once the crusade failed, I declared a Jihad on Milan and took that. Then, they declared another crusade on Rome, so more catholics come my way, though less this time. By the time I had seized Milan and Bologna, I had destroyed most of Milan's military power in italy, so the rest of the region was easy to take.

Now, things have settled down, it's probably been 100 turns since I took Rome, and the pope doesn't stay alive long enough to call any new crusades since I kill him every turn. The Milanese and Moors are still trying to push me out, to no avail.

Basically, when you take Rome, expect a TON of crusader armies to come your way in retaliation. It would be smart to attack Rome with a very strong force of your best troops - don't send greens, or be a bit more tactical and wait till a Crusade is already in progress on another target before you attack Rome, that will the city will be easier to hold.

Oh, and make sure you take Palerno castle too, you'll need it to reinforce your guys around Rome. The closest castle to Rome besides Palerno (in Sicily) is Innsbruck, WAY to the north in the mountains.

[FactionHeir]

Actually Ajaccio and Cagliari are even closer to Rome than Palermo

[Flavius Gonzo]

OK, yikes. I think the 10-12 crusader armies are not a problem, I can likely deal with them, especially if there is a bridge to defend.

But, having alliances betrayed is not a sweet idea for my campaign right now -- the string of coastal cities I own from Constantinople to Ragusa is only moderately garrisoned, it would be a pain to have to defend any one of those cities. I need those hungarians to honor their alliance... at least until deal with the mongol threat in the east. So the pope-o-matic will remain in Rome for at least another 10-20 turns.

Maybe I need an alliance with the Pope. Anyone had luck with this as an Islamic faction?

[FactionHeir]

Being allied to him doesn't really help much as an Islamic faction.
Playing as the Moors, I allied with the Pope, but this didn't prevent him from calling a crusade on Toulouse which I bought off the French.

Attacking a catholic faction or a crusading army will still lower your reputation with the pope and the latter with all catholic nations.

[Flavius Gonzo]

Attacking a catholic faction or a crusading army will still lower your reputation with the pope and the latter with all catholic nations.

Is this true even if they are crusading towards one of your own cities? What about if I ambush the army?

[FactionHeir]

Yes it will. Crusaders were heading for Toulouse which I owned and I attacked a Franch crusader stack. Immediately after battle I got a diplomatic information report where all my relations with catholics went to abysmal.

It didn't break alliances or lead to wars immediately though

[Musashi]

Allying with the pope and feeding him enough money to keep relations at or near "perfect" seems to help prevent crusades...

[FactionHeir]

It didn't for me. I was allied to France, Milan, Venice and the Pope.
At war with HRE at the time.
I had perfect relations with my allies due to a diplomat at each city.
Then I bought Toulouse off the French for maps and 10k.
End turn, next turn a crusade is declared on Toulouse and after I attack the crusade, all relations go abysmal and the pope is the only ally I got left.

[Sarmatian]

In my moors campaign, I got attacked by milan. Entire Iberian penninsula was under my control, and french were my allies. My military was not so strong, but I was confident I can take milan. So, when I became bored with their ships blocking my ports, I invaded marseille from the sea with one full stack led by my sultan who had 6 command stars (and only 20 years). After taking marseille, I defeated 1 full stack milan army and took bologna. Then another two, and I took florence. The only thing that saved me was my 10 star young general. And then it really became bad. Papal states besieged florence, and french, venice, sicilia declared war on me.

I managed to hold my own and even conquer a few cities (venice, palermo) but I became bored with papal states besieging florence every turn. So i declared a jihad on rome, and conquered it. Then all hell break loose. Pope called a crusade on rome! In addition to nations I was already at war with, danes, hungary and hre all started sending crusaders to conquer rome.

So expect a heavy reprisal if you conquer rome.
And of course, every time you kill a pope, a new one appears in the rome area, hiring all the mercenaries for attack on the city. While this isn't much of a threat, it is annoying, expecially because you can't retrain mercenaries in your army.
I stoped playing when average time for a turn became half an hour...

So, in my opion, rome is not worth taking...

[Blademun]

I took rome as a Catholic nation and just made sure to kill the pope before he could hire Mercs.

Just so you know, you can send a diplomat to the the pope stack, and if you offer him one of your regions (like..Rhodes..lol) he'll suddenly forgive you and make peace. After he dies, all other popes will appear in whatever region you gave. So be sure to give him a region on the edge of the world. Timbuktu might be nice...

[RZST]

hmm, how about giving the pope the whole italian peninsula? would the pope then be a warmonger spreading the word of god through the use of pointy sticks?
in my milan campaign i am considering giving him the whole southern italy area.

[NightStar]

In my campaign as the Byz, the pope has the whole southern italian peninsula, and I didn't give it to him...and he crusades as well!!!! :smash:

[sapi]

In my byz campaign, i've assassanated two popes, killed three or four in battle and taken rome, and yet i'm yet to face a crusade.

The pope's stopped respawning in italy too - maybe i cleaned out the college of cardinals :P