Pre-Marian Roman expansion in the East

[Arkatreides]

I have been playing a fair bit with the SPQR but find it very hard to get any proper expansion going in the east (i.e. Ptolemai/Seleucid etc regions).

The main problem is that the units I can recruit locally are completely underpowered compared to their units (especially Hoplitai Haploi against their elite Phalanxes - they don't last any time at all) so the only alternative is to keep importing may factional units from Italy which is incredibly time-consuming.

The same does not happen in Gaul or Spain as, even though the local units there are also less powerful, they are at least not completely useless against the enemy's factional units.

I presume this is all historically accurate, but my question is: If Rome had expanded this fast this far, wouldn't the Marian reforms have kicked it earlier (as a kind of necessity to keep those regions)?

Or am I using the wrong strategy here?

[Gazius]

Marian Reforms
At least year 172BC, have 6 Latifundia built, hold at least 45 settlements, fight more than 250 battles and have a character that is:

Intelligent/Charismatic/Vigorous
Popularis
Consul or Ex-Consul
Has Influence and Command > 2

OR just conquer 90 settlements.

You could always edit that to however many you currently hold. Search for Marian in the EBBS.txt document and you should find the triggers for the reforms if I'm not mistaken.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

In order to beat the Eastern powers you'll have to use your greater mobility on the battlefield. Bassically though you need a large fleet to carry Italian armies. That's how it was done originally and the problems you are encountering help to spark reforms.

[Ypoknons]

Historically, the Marian reforms reflected social developments within Rome - the demise of the small landowning class in favor of large estates, where the small landowning class had traditionally supplied the bulk of the soldiery. They weren't a reaction to more powerful enemies.

[Zaknafien]

Thanks for your expertise, Ypoknons. Its a good thing you mentioned that. :wall:

Seriously though, these "reforms" arose through a variety of triggers which have been much discussed and beaten to death quite honestly in other threads, and yes, reaction to enemies of the state were a part of this transformation, not only recruitment methods and qualifications for service. Im sure if you look around you'll find some very long threads on the subject.

[Ypoknons]

That's true. So I weren't completely correct there; but that's all good.

[Spoofa]

would u have to start a new game before the changes to the script would take effect?

[johnmk]

I doubt it.

[LorDBulA]

Historically, the Marian reforms reflected social developments within Rome - the demise of the small landowning class in favor of large estates, where the small landowning class had traditionally supplied the bulk of the soldiery.

This is only half of the story.
Its true that social changes where important but also Roman army model was not fit to wage wars far from home for long periods of time.
And this was the big part of factors that led to demise of small landowning class (they where waging wars instead of work on they land, support they farms, and make new babies).
Plus Rome was suffering many large defeats in that time witch also added more strain to the system because many of landowners where dying, and the whole system was already in crisis.