Multiplayer Campaigns are go!

[serenius4tsd]

It seems CA threw in something interesting for us :yes: : http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=74132

And the first MP Campaign is already being organised...
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1387903#post1387903

w00t w00t w00t! :beam:

[sapi]

Hmmm - very difficult to set up and would take forever.

A good find though!

[serenius4tsd]

Hotseat is not hard at all to set up - in fact, i just tested it with my friend and it is surprisingly user-friendly. Doing it with other people is as easy as sending a save file to the next person. :)

Although i do agree - it will take forever.

[Kraxis]

But saving the game will let the next player see your positions ect. Or is it such that the game stops after you press end turn or something?

This could be fun...

[knoddy]

been experimenting, it actually works as a hotseat campaign, and works well from wot i saw. there are a few minor drawbacks that i could see in my short foray into a multiplayer camp with 1 player as england 1 player as france including.

Battles- must be auto calced or only 1 player can command, seeing as its hot seat. for example, using the french army i attacked a british army, i was able to command, and as such i slaughtered the other players army without him having any input.

camp map- there seems to be some end of turn notices missing, as the english i didnt get an end of turn report, or a notice that my army had been slaughtered.

- the ai still has some control over things, for example i randomsed the english prisoners and the computer accepted without giving the english player a chance to do anything.i would assume the same would be said of diplomacy, would be left to the ai, which would be kinda annoying, alhtough i didnt try for any diplomacy between the 2 player factions.


After player for a few turns its my beliefe that this was an intended feature by CA to answer the call for a multiplayer camp, its very VERY easy to setup and theres little screens at the beginning of each human players turn with the faction they are controlling on it. IT seems like an extra unpolished feature they chucked for us to discover.

Cheers Knoddy

[serenius4tsd]

Diplomacy between human factions does not involve the AI at all - One player will make his offer, then when its the other persons turn they will accept/decline/etc.

[Heinrich VI]

YEAH! YEAH!

after all these years they finally added a multiplayer campaign option. just hotseat but better than nothing. now dear CA add a lan option in the next patch and i will name my first born after you guys! *bows*

[chunkynut]

now dear CA add a lan option in the next patch

Yeah, but every time I think about how it would work I worry, I want this option badly but the current campaign mechanic would interfere

i.e. I move Army half way to the end of its possible move area and attack a Player faction and I still have half the possible move left. We battle MP style and one of us (lets say me :smile:) and I want to move the Army on.

What happens while I'm moving stuff around, how would the Player (other than taking turns) fight battles like these? Otherwise I would love a real time campaign turn for and between Player factions then turns for AI factions but I can't see it working in the current way, MTW or STW style campaign maps would be possible ....

*starts writing xmas list*

[Stig]

Well you found fight battles MP, that's impossible tho someone at .com had a good solution:

I think this engine can be modified to play multiplayer battles as well. The battles could be "saved" and played at the end of the round. Becouse of the player 1 advantage as starting player, the starting player each round should be diffrent. So player 2 would start the second round and so on, all AI would be always the last ones to make a move (let them die, once for all and solve all AI issues that there are so many of). I believe that this is far from beign impossible. And they can even (at least) fix it up a bit in next patch.
http://p223.ezboard.com/Cant-find-a-thread-on-this-but-MP-campaign-possible/fshoguntotalwarfrm55.showMessage?topicID=12290.topic

[DeltaOne2]

Yeah, but every time I think about how it would work I worry, I want this option badly but the current campaign mechanic would interfere

i.e. I move Army half way to the end of its possible move area and attack a Player faction and I still have half the possible move left. We battle MP style and one of us (lets say me :smile:) and I want to move the Army on.

What happens while I'm moving stuff around, how would the Player (other than taking turns) fight battles like these? Otherwise I would love a real time campaign turn for and between Player factions then turns for AI factions but I can't see it working in the current way, MTW or STW style campaign maps would be possible ....

*starts writing xmas list*


For me, it is somewhat easy.

The perfect way to MP campaign would be:

- You have players.. playing. Each player has max 5 minutes (it somewhat reminds me of the Heroes saga) to play on the strategic map (I hope I'm not confusing it with the other, tactical one, I'm not entirely sure which is which) so he can buy & move units & send emissaries, assasins etc.

AFTER he finishes this, he will click End Turn and the next player will have the option to select his troops & move around. However, if the first player decides that he wants to get involved in a battle, then.. things might get complicated.

Because battles tend to take a great amount of time, the defending player will have the option of either retreat or fight. If he choses to retreat, then things will settle down pretty easy. But, if he choses to fight then a pannel will be shown to all the players chosing the way the fight will take place. Either Automatic or Personal. If more than (or exactly) 50% of the votes are for either one of the vote results, then that vote option will come into effect. Non-participants at the war can spectate the war.

[TheSeated]

The Civilization guys have been doing it for years. Hotseat is what college students in 1979 did. boo.

[chunkynut]

The Civilization guys have been doing it for years. Hotseat is what college students in 1979 did. boo.

I must have missed Civilisations real-time tactical battles somewhere then ;)

Hotseat is fine on soley turn-based games and nearly every early game (early in terms of computer game history) came with MP due to this being the tool for the AI to be developed in the SP.

More recent games often come without a co-op option or even a MP option which I think is crazy :dizzy2:

[TheSeated]

I must have missed Civilisations real-time tactical battles somewhere then ;)

Well you wont get it with a M2TW Hotseat game either. Switching from turn based to real time and back has already been done in MP titles Like MOO3.

My point was that a multiplayer Civ game could last 8 hours or more but people still play it. With AI tech and IT at its current state, SP games are for people that like to win all the time.

My second point was that hotseat is 3 decades old technology. No thanks, CA does NOT get and E for effort there.

[TheSeated]

AFTER he finishes this, he will click End Turn and the next player will have the option to select his troops & move around. However, if the first player decides that he wants to get involved in a battle, then.. things might get complicated.


There is no reason why all human players cant take their turns all at once. Civ4 works like this.

In a situation where one player needs to fight a battle with another player, It would happen after all players have finished their turn. Then before the next turn starts, uninvolved players would be thrown in a temp chat room while the other two duke it out given a small time period to get it resolved. MOO3 worked like this.

[Vladimir]

Yay MoO

Boo TW

They can do better.

[Orda Khan]

What would be the point in MP campaign when battles are auto calculated? As for trying to actually fight the battles in MP that could prove difficult enough due to the random may or may not be able to log in that is the current mess.
This is not great news AFAIC

.......Orda

[wolftrapper78]

I like this opion alot and have been waiting for this for a long time.

Anyways, I am playing as the French, HRE, and Pope and going west, east, and south respectively. Awesome fun.

Anywho, what I am wondering is if anyone else has experienced funny things on multiplayer. As the French, I was in the process of invading england, when a moorish diplomat, representing the english asked for a ceasefire. after rejecting my vassalage counteroffer, I looked on the campaign map and sure enough, he really was a moorish diplomat.
Wierd, i know, has anyone else encountered this?

[elbasto]

Apparently, you can't defend yourself from any kind of AI attack... and that's terrible...

[JoeyBritt]

Had a 2 hour odd go at this today with a couple of friends. It works...sure there are limitation but its a great laugh. Be sure to bring some booze or a film to watch or something as it takes a long long time. In 2 hours we got about 6 turns done (maybe as many as 10)

[pevergreen]

Although MoO3 is a good game, its getting out of date graphics wise (im not some random spouting nonsene, i do own MoO3). Over in https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1357868#post1357868 I am waiting replies on the possibility of a mod for hotseating. It's likely the best we are going to get for a MP campaign. If its possible, get a team together and see what we can do? Anyone else interested?

[Rodion Romanovich]

Nice! Now if CA would just add a few lines of code to make sure that in hotseat mode you can only autoresolve the battles to make sure nobody "cheats" by fighting the AI and winning too crushing victories. It would also be great if the defender could somehow have an option to retreat if he wants to, but this is a good start!

[pevergreen]

Im sure theres a line in that code...

playable = true
hotseat_turns = true
hotseat_scroll = true
hotseat_update_ai_camera = false
hotseat_disable_papal_elections = false
hotseat_autoresolve_battles = false
hotseat_save_prefs = true
hotseat_disable_console = false
hotseat_validate_diplomacy = true

hotseat_autoresolve_battles = false
change that to
hotseat_autoresolve_battles = true

anyway for my medieval2.preferences.cfg

its not = true like RTW its


[multiplayer]
hotseat_autoresolve_battles = 0
hotseat_disable_console = 0
hotseat_disable_papal_elections = 0
hotseat_save_prefs = 1
hotseat_update_ai_camera = 0
hotseat_validate_diplomacy = 1

That makes it work for me in 1.1

So changing first line from
hotseat_autoresolve_battles = 0
to
hotseat_autoresolve_battles = 1

should make compulsary autocalc battles.

edit: just realised that
hotseat_disable_console = 0
further cheat prevention?

[Ferret]

I changed the files and did a fun hotseat campaign but now its made my single player campaign like that. I can't play defensive battles or anything. SOMEBODY PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TheSeated]

If you are content with autoresolved battles in an MP campaign, what you get is a crappy version of CIV. The campaign has never been total war's selling point. Not just that but its hotseat. Hotseat is lame! Forgive me for spouting but I would love to play a REAL MP campaign online with all its RTS glory. It frustrates me to no end to see all these bugs, a crappy AI, and a half assed attempt at a MP campaign to top it all off! Its like a slap in the face. I payed 50 bucks for a broke ass game. It sure looks purty tho.

[Shahed]

There is one way to make an MP campaign work.

Real time, days flow..followed by weeks and months... and years. An end to the end turn button. There are no turns you play like you do Hearts of iron 2 with a game speed, which runs the game non stop, when armies meet they fight.

Man how long can it take, this is the 3rd game since STW, and still no real MP campaign.
A hotseat, well at least something, but not what I'm looking for.

I want THE WHOLE GAME in MP.

[TheSeated]

They call it a "turn slice" in mp civ. Turns are taken in real time and when everyone has clicked the next turn button the next turn will begin.

[Shahed]

I did'nt know that about CIV, so thanks for filling me in.

That is an option but why bother with that when you can have continous time. And why use CIV as an example, CA need to get back to settng their own standard. You have'nt played Hearts Of Iron 2: Doomsday. In MP in that game the time runs by hours, i.e 0500...0600....0700...0800...continously. That is the best I have ever seen, in MP. Smooth as silk, and real time strategy.

[TheSeated]

I did'nt know that about CIV, so thanks for filling me in.

That is an option but why bother with that when you can have continous time. And why use CIV as an example, CA need to get back to settng their own standard. You have'nt played Hearts Of Iron 2: Doomsday. In MP in that game the time runs by hours, i.e 0500...0600....0700...0800...continously. That is the best I have ever seen, in MP. Smooth as silk, and real time strategy.

THere are many ways you could do it. Without changing the game, and without making everyone wait for each player to take his turns individually, the turn slice approach is the way to go. Anyhoo we get this. Maybe CA will supprise us with the MIITW "Play the world" expansion. Doubtful...

[TheSeated]

BTW Civ4 was written from the ground up as a MP game. The SP campaign is just an MP game with AI players. MIITW was abviously not written this way so I doubt we can expect much more then a well modded hotseat game.

[Ulstan]

Now if CA would just add a few lines of code to make sure that in hotseat mode you can only autoresolve the battles to make sure nobody "cheats" by fighting the AI and winning too crushing victories.

heh, what would be the fun of that? A total war game with no battles isn't even a total war game.

This is better than nothing, and I guess I can deal with auto resolving all battles vs human opponents if I can still get *real* battles vs the AI opponents, but the dream is to be able to do a *real* multiplayer (over LAN or internet) where the battles can be played out as well.

If there was some way to take a campaign game saved file, and plug the battle information into the custom battle creater, and then take the results of a custom battle and plug them back into a campaign game saved file, it should be doable.

[Kraxis]

They call it a "turn slice" in mp civ. Turns are taken in real time and when everyone has clicked the next turn button the next turn will begin.
Yeah... I remember how I discussed such an option for MTW I believe.

That would actually be doable since there was nothing that was done right away (like moving the armies). I used to use that as an argument all those "it will take too long waiting for three other players doing their turns". There was even a guy that proposed that every player should get a little weak bodyguard unit for proper battles so we could all watch and talk about it (and perhaps even backstab if it came to that).

[elbasto]

So, at the moment the main restrain is that you can't choose to fight against the AI if they attack you...

[pevergreen]

Apparently you can, I too have had that problem, my sieging army got thrown off Rennes. NOT happy. Making a mod for this would not be that hard actually. Just make a historical battle for every actual battle. This would involve lots of coding, and wouldnt fit in without some more uber coding. So in the near future, MP campaign battles - no.

[Heinrich VI]

Apparently you can, I too have had that problem, my sieging army got thrown off Rennes. NOT happy. Making a mod for this would not be that hard actually. Just make a historical battle for every actual battle. This would involve lots of coding, and wouldnt fit in without some more uber coding. So in the near future, MP campaign battles - no.

you can? what do i have to do in order to be able to defend against ai attacks on one of the human players? at the moment this is the biggest problem. i can live with having to autocalculate player vs player battles (for now :D ) if i am at least able to properly fight the ai in battle.

[pevergreen]

I had replied in another thread, but someone said you could vs AI, if s/he knew that I meant defending, I dont know. So as it sits now, you cant defend from AI, until someone proves or mods otherwise.

[Dead_Like_Me]

Myrddraal well finally they did some thing right :D
this would probably will save some work time.

i really liked the diplomacy solution though the battles is the major battle here.
it works great almost in all aspects what left to do is to fix battle problems.
i read some where that a guy told that the battles that out of your turn will be played only if a city is under attack. but it is incorrect any battle out of your turn will be auto resolved and that is the only major problem.
SEGA did a great job , and they already organized the game to notice who is
a AI or human. therefore i guess that what should be done is to create a
script that in stead of ending the turn with the last player view to end it
with full view that won't show AI moves and in this end turn mod
all attacked human players will get to play their battles.
this wont be easy but if it can be created well the hot seat will be 89% perfect
what left after this is to try to write a program that will extract saved game info
by the way is the game codded like the old game or more comfortable to mod ?

[elbasto]

Another bug.

If you have a papal election, only the first voter gets to vote.

The rest of the players will automatically vote for the Preferati with the highest piety...

[elbasto]

Ok, here's the deal.

A player at the twcenter discovered how to play defensive battles against the AI in hotseat.

Nontheless, during these battles the AI controls your own troops as reinforcements, overwriting all your commands with others of its own...

Before the battle it does not give you the option to ucheck the box with the "AI control", neither from your main force or from your real reinforcements...

Is there a way to disable this, either by:
- Disabeling AI controlled reinforcements all together
- Having a console command to control those troops
- Any other way at all

We are very, very close to having a playable hotseat campaign...



By the way, here are the settings of the preferences file modified in order to play the battles, although atm I should say, "watch the battles"



[multiplayer]
playable = 1
hotseat_turns = 0
hotseat_scroll = 0
hotseat_update_ai_camera = 1
hotseat_disable_papal_elections = 0
hotseat_autoresolve_battles = 0
hotseat_save_prefs = 1
hotseat_disable_console = 0
hotseat_validate_diplomacy = 1


Good luck

El Basto

[Halaster]

Does the game behave normally considering everything else? No strange quirks poping up besides the AI taking control of your reinforcements?

[mor dan]

ours won't us do anything diplomatically with each other. playing as Muslim nations, we are trying to destroy the indels of Europe and take control of the mediteranean. however, when we try to gift things to each other or offer treaties, trade rights, etc, when one of checks the box to make an offer or gift, nothing happens.

[elbasto]

ours won't us do anything diplomatically with each other. playing as Muslim nations, we are trying to destroy the indels of Europe and take control of the mediteranean. however, when we try to gift things to each other or offer treaties, trade rights, etc, when one of checks the box to make an offer or gift, nothing happens.
you have to wait until next turn, when the other human player can receive your offer and accept it or rejected (gift are auto accepted though).

Now... what about that no AI contro reinforements command?

[mor dan]

you have to wait until next turn, when the other human player can receive your offer and accept it or rejected (gift are auto accepted though).


that has not been my experience though. i click to offer, then to close the Dip sheet i have to click the check mark, which gives the audio of unfruitful negotiations. i advance turns and a new Dip sheet never appears for the other person to accept or decline the offer. they never receive the gifts when i click that button.

i know what's SUPPOSED to happen. the problem is that it ISN'T happening.

[elbasto]

that has not been my experience though. i click to offer, then to close the Dip sheet i have to click the check mark, which gives the audio of unfruitful negotiations. i advance turns and a new Dip sheet never appears for the other person to accept or decline the offer. they never receive the gifts when i click that button.

i know what's SUPPOSED to happen. the problem is that it ISN'T happening.
have you modded your game in any way?

I've do the testings in version 1.0, maybe the patch have some negative effects...

[mor dan]

it's possible. i am using the 1.1 version.