A Suggestion for 0.81

[MSB]

Hullo EB team,
I noticed that the government system does not appear to strictly restrict buildings. So I thought that perhaps there could be a system that does restrict most buildings to certain levels depending on the government. So:
Type 1: All building levels for all buildings excluding Regional MIC which can only go to level 2
Type 2: All building levels up to next to highest level with a few exceptions which can go up to highest level (such as baths). MICs go up to level 4 for factional and level 3 for regional
Type 3: All building levels up to third to highest (eg. three levels of academy, only lowest level allowed) with some exceptions (such as public hygiene where sewers are allowed). Faction MICs go up to level 3 for faction and level 4 for regional.
Type 4: All building levels up to fourth to highest are allowed (eg. three levels of academy none allowed) with some exceptions. MICs go up to level 2 for factional and level 5 for regional
Provisionary Military Government: The "lowest", as in five down from highest, building can be built. That includes MICs.

Without a government nothing can be built except provisionary government.

I hope this idea can be implemented,
Avlvs

[Arkatreides]

Correct me if I am wrong but that is pretty much the way it works right now - ok some buildings can be a couple of level higher or lower than with your method but overall this is along the lines of the current setup. Just try it - build a gov IV and you will only get a few options. Build them all, then upgrade to a gov III and you get another level or so, same for gov II and gov I.

[MSB]

Thing is it is not restrictive enough. I have found that I can build some buildings by not building a government at all.

[Zaknafien]

You dont need a provisional government to build "anything". You could certainly enact repairs, build palisades and roads, etc, simply by using your military.

[blacksnail]

Without a government nothing can be built except provisionary government.
Doing this can slow the game down a bit and is very unfriendly to low memory systems. I'm not sure we'd be able to do this.

Due to the way the buildings work, as well as the hidden resource usage in existing regions, I don't know if the MIC exclusionary thing is doable. It's something I'm looking into for 0.82 but it might not be possible.

[MSB]

You don't need a provisional government to build "anything". You could certainly enact repairs, build palisades and roads, etc, simply by using your military.
Sadly as the Selucids I can't just build simple things - I can build things such as lowest level schools and paved roads!?

Perhaps very low level un-technological advanced buildings should be build able without a PMG. When a PMG is built it should incur no benefit excluding it's small law bonus.

Also, in my opinion, settlement income should be set to 0 (no taxes or trade) till a PMG or proper government is built. How can a settlement participate in trade without any proper organisation? The military can't do that (correct me should I be wrong). This could be done by having the government marker incur a major penalty to trade / taxes. This could then be reversed by the PGN followed by bonus' given by governments setting the bonus to normal. This would stop people from exploiting the government system by building no governments (or any buildings) in the settlement just so that they can get some money.

[MSB]

Doing this can slow the game down a bit and is very unfriendly to low memory systems. I'm not sure we'd be able to do this.
How would it slow the game down? It would only slow it down by about one turn, wouldn't it?

[blacksnail]

How would it slow the game down? It would only slow it down by about one turn, wouldn't it?
By putting in the requirement "and building_present_min_level government {whatever}" it might be too much of a hit for lower end systems - IE, CTD producing. We haven't tested that sort of thing yet, but with a future goal of removing some of the sluggishness, it might be counterproductive.

If we do go with such a thing, it certainly won't be in 0.81.

[MSB]

By putting in the requirement "and building_present_min_level government {whatever}" it might be too much of a hit for lower end systems - IE, CTD producing. We haven't tested that sort of thing yet, but with a future goal of removing some of the sluggishness, it might be counterproductive.
Ahhh. Thats not good if it can be a slow down :san_sad:

Perhaps it could be done some other way without slow downs? Script maybe or would that be slower? Or perhaps you could work out a way of making EB run faster in the Windows environment by telling fans how to do something to the Windows services and virtual memory?

[blacksnail]

We're looking into a lot of different options. We'll see what we can hammer out for 0.82.

But good suggestions! You are thinking along the same lines that we are. ~:)

[Tuuvi]

Also, in my opinion, settlement income should be set to 0 (no taxes or trade) till a PMG or proper government is built. How can a settlement participate in trade without any proper organisation? The military can't do that (correct me should I be wrong). This could be done by having the government marker incur a major penalty to trade / taxes. This could then be reversed by the PGN followed by bonus' given by governments setting the bonus to normal. This would stop people from exploiting the government system by building no governments (or any buildings) in the settlement just so that they can get some money.

I don't agree, just because someone conquers a settlement doesn't mean all hell breaks lose until a new government is built. Trade would continue unless the conquerers didn't allow it. Of course It would be hard to tax without a government, but this is already represented in the game because usually you have to lower taxes in newly conquered regions to avoid riots.