Reconquista

[PaulTa]

In the High Middle Ages, the fight against the Moors in the Iberian Peninsula became linked to the fight of the whole of Christendom. The Reconquista was originally a mere war of conquest. It only later underwent a significant shift in meaning toward a religiously justified war of liberation (see the Augustinian concept of a Just War). The papacy and the influential Abbey of Cluny in Burgundy not only justified the anti-Islamic acts of war but actively encouraged Christian knights to seek armed confrontation with Moorish "infidels" instead of with each other. From the 11th Century onwards indulgences were granted: In 1064 Pope Alexander II promised the participants of an expedition against Barbastro a collective indulgence 30 years before Pope Urban II called the First Crusade. Not until 1095 and the Council of Clermont did the Reconquista amalgamate the conflicting concepts of a peaceful pilgrimage and armed kight-errantry.


Spanish Reconquest. Monasterio de Uclés.Cuenca. Spain.But the papacy left no doubt about the heavenly reward for knights fighting for Christ (militia Christi): in a letter, Urban II tried to persuade the reconquistadores fighting at Tarragona to stay in the Peninsula and not to join the armed pilgrimage to liberate Jerusalem since their contribution for Christianity was equally important. The pope promised them the same rewarding indulgence that awaited the first crusaders

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconquista



Shouldn't this be reflected a bit in the game? I always neglect the first crusade and end up getting a bunch of papal points knocked out for it... I've got my own church sanctioned crusade already!

I think that Spain and Portugal should start out with a much higher papal rating to reflect this. Any thoughts?

[Whacker]

stuff
Well, in my last campaign I kinda had my own mini-Reconquista. As the English... crusading against Spain... (who'd been excommunicated) :inquisitive: :grin: The lame part was after I cleaned out the Portugese and Spanish, I couldn't target the Moorish cities as places to crusade against.

[Zenicetus]

Well, I did think it was kinda weird in my Spanish campaign that my relations with the Pope got no bump at all, from pushing the Moors out of Iberia.

However, Spain (and to a slightly lesser extent Portugal) does start out with three very big advantages: a relatively safe homeland starting position, very resource-rich provinces nearby (Arguin and Timbuktu), and a faction right next door that you can attack with impunity (the Moors). Any other Catholic faction has to worry about damaging papal relations if they attack an adjoining faction.... Spain doesn't. You can also call for Crusades in your natural path of expansion westward across North Africa and into the Middle East, which almost feels like an exploit.

So even though it's a bit odd that the Reconquista doesn't impact papal relations, maybe it balances out. It's already one of the easiest factions to play, I think.

[Alden]

You'll get plenty of Papal brownie points as Spain just by converting Moslems to Catholics. When you capture previously-Moorish settlements, don't build a church right away. Pope will give you "Build a Church" as a mission within a turn or two. Then you can get a cash reward and Papal Favor!

The penalty for not joining a crusade is trivial. The +Favor effects of all the other stuff you can do to butter him up dwarfs it.

You (and Urban II) are certainly right - the Levant is about the last place Spain or Portugal needs to be sending troops during the 12th century. The biggest impediment to maintaining a Crusader Kingdom is the distance to capital penalties and there's no capital farther from Jerusalem than those in Iberia.

[Snoil The Mighty]

You'll get plenty of Papal brownie points as Spain just by converting Moslems to Catholics. When you capture previously-Moorish settlements, don't build a church right away. Pope will give you "Build a Church" as a mission within a turn or two. Then you can get a cash reward and Papal Favor!

The penalty for not joining a crusade is trivial. The +Favor effects of all the other stuff you can do to butter him up dwarfs it.

You (and Urban II) are certainly right - the Levant is about the last place Spain or Portugal needs to be sending troops during the 12th century. The biggest impediment to maintaining a Crusader Kingdom is the distance to capital penalties and there's no capital farther from Jerusalem than those in Iberia.

+1. I haven't played Portugal yet, intend to start one this weekend. I have heard they are actually easier than Spain, and as Spain, it is way easy to get the Pontiff in your pocket early on, and essentially forever thereafter. You can easily get the second papal election, and if not, certainly the third just by building priests, getting points for church building, and massive converting (I had at least 8 conversion missions as Spain in a long drawn campaign). The pope was Spanish and paella was the dish of choice at college of cardinal meeting for well over 300 years. So getting popely bonuses really is awfully easy, also, if you get your rating up fast, you can pre-empt that first jerusalem crusade and call one to Corduba! Keep an eye on the 'call a crusade' button on the Pope tab once it goes live if you rate well, you can make the call and get your Reconquista crusade made official.

[Alden]

...you can pre-empt that first jerusalem crusade and call one to Corduba! Keep an eye on the 'call a crusade' button on the Pope tab once it goes live if you rate well, you can make the call and get your Reconquista crusade made official.

Just be ready to move fast and get it over with asap. Otherwise, you'll have big ol' French stacks lumbering around in your territories itching to beseige something. If it can't be Cordoba, Zaragoza will serve just as well.

The French hostility to the Iberian factions is just insane. In my Spain and Portugal games, I've been forced to cross the Pyranees, capture Toulouse and Aquitane, convert them to towns, then abandon them again. That usually takes the vinegar out of the French. And if it doesn't, it makes the armies they relentless send south a lot cheaper and easier to kill. You'd think a faction getting its clock cleaned by Milan would spend more money on fighting Milan and less money on blockading my ports.