Dear Dear

[gingergenius]

I've had MTW2 for about a month. I paid £20 for it, and have played about 750 turns on a 0.5 campaign as the English.

On the whole, I enjoyed the game, but there has been a series of bugs and errors that have now tipped me over the edge and frankly, it is crap considering the standards the makers have set with their previous titles.

The last straw has been the way the game crashes. My computer is perfectly good and was able to run GTA SA without any problems - with MTW2 i've had to close down even background programs but thats ok and it works fine. Several of my battles have crashed the game for no apparent reason - one I remember was about 20 units of demi cavalry vs a Timurid stack, which crashed the game despite me having fought bigger battles before. Another time, after completing a battle, the game froze waiting for the Egyptians to take their turn - the trade boats still moved and the background graphics all worked but the Egyptians must have fallen asleep taking their turn.

All this I can deal with, just, along with the crap assassins, diplomats, princesses, royalty, bribery etc. But here is where it went too far:

I have conquered everything, except the 3 Aztec cities - but I landed 4469 troops in the Tlaxcala area and laid siege to it. After a few years, the Aztecs attacked me with a huge force, and two of my 4 stacks were in the fighting area. For some reason, every button (such as the tick or the end turn) was showing up with a picture of a dockyard, and the news in the left hand side of the screen was giving me odd pictures as well. Anyway, ignoring this irritation, I managed to decipher the mess on the screen and decided to fight the battle manually. As always, it zoomed in on the battle area and the hourglass started turning. Then, I'm back in Windows and 'MTW2 has encountered an unspecified error' came up on the screen.

I restarted the game, and fortunately the problem with the buttons was over. This time the Aztecs attacked me and every one of my forces was in the area. I fought the best battle I have ever fought: https://img149.imageshack.us/img149/4855/battleoftlaxcalaoq6.th.png (https://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=battleoftlaxcalaoq6.png)

Yet after executing all the prisoners, the game went into the turns mode again. Except rather than going to the papacy or rebels, it went to Germany with France on the left shield and Spain on the right, despite me having eliminated these factions long ago. The game then stuck on Germany, with one of my stacks moving in and out of Tlaxcala. I left it for 20 mins, and it was still doing the same thing. So, Alt + Tab and then it just exited. I just lost a heroic victory that took me over and hour to fight. I know that an auto battle would be lost.

So thank you CA for making a game look like a 10/10 and fulfill about 7/10. Don't rush it next time. I could have waited a few more months.

[Shahed]

Sorry to hear that. Must have been one hell of a battle.

[Spark]

I think that's the first time I've seen someone outnumber 3 full stacks of Aztecs in a battle :O

[gingergenius]

an update:

i refought the battle and this time lost 100 less men (1332) and killed a lot more (3719)

fortunately it didn't crash this time.

My army was made up completely of mercenaries, with a general for each stack. I collected all the mercenaries I could from all around my Old world empire - galloglaich, welsh spearmen, condottieri, sudanese tribesmen, cuman horsemen, serbian knights, khwarazmian cavalry etc. I shipped over a few elephants as well, gathered the whole lot in Fortaleza and set off for Tlaxcala. Plus the Native Mercenaries I picked up along the way. I suppose that answers the questions on what troops to take to fight the Aztecs.

After that I killed another one of their stacks, having recruited some Tlaxcalan Mercenaries (there were 12 available and 12 natives). the mercenaries seem to work well. I'm marching off to the next city now with a more professional army from Micosukkee garrisoned in Tlaxcala.

[dopp]

an update:

i refought the battle and this time lost 100 less men (1332) and killed a lot more (3719)

fortunately it didn't crash this time.

My army was made up completely of mercenaries, with a general for each stack. I collected all the mercenaries I could from all around my Old world empire - galloglaich, welsh spearmen, condottieri, sudanese tribesmen, cuman horsemen, serbian knights, khwarazmian cavalry etc. I shipped over a few elephants as well, gathered the whole lot in Fortaleza and set off for Tlaxcala. Plus the Native Mercenaries I picked up along the way. I suppose that answers the questions on what troops to take to fight the Aztecs.

After that I killed another one of their stacks, having recruited some Tlaxcalan Mercenaries (there were 12 available and 12 natives). the mercenaries seem to work well. I'm marching off to the next city now with a more professional army from Micosukkee garrisoned in Tlaxcala.

That must have been a sight to see. The peoples of the Old World unite to plunder the riches of the New. What turn was it when this mega battle happened?

Aztec troops are hard. Jaguar warriors can beat JHI in a straight fight.

[BigTex]

That almost sounds like a hardware problem. Bugs like that have happened on my old computer, but only when it started to heat up.

As for GTA SA, that's not a very system heavy game. It's built around a PS2 platform. M2TW graphics alone blow almost any game out the window besides Oblivion. It's one of the more system heavy games out there.

[sapi]

Yeh - i'd agree with what's been said about gta:sa being relitively light on the system, and realistically m2 is pretty easy as well, but it stresses the cpu (unlike most games) and that's usually the most underpowered part in a gaming system so we all feel the strain :( The same goes for oblivion :P

Good to see you got your victory again though, though i would point out that it's unrealistic to expect a game not to crash - it's life...

[Grebnol]

So thank you CA for making a game look like a 10/10 and fulfill about 7/10. Don't rush it next time. I could have waited a few more months.

Who says you had to buy it now? Just because the game is out doesn't mean you have to buy it asap. I'm sure in a few months there will be another official patch and some great mods out. Quite frankly, i'm suprised a game of this magnitude runs as well as it does in vanilla form.

I also find it humorous that you're still playing the game despite the fact that you think many aspects are "crap".

Go get some mods, there's some really good ones out already (shaba's diplomacy, big map .99). These two mods alone have made my campaigns 5x as enjoyable as vanilla. And if you can't stand the bugs, then get the mods that fix all the major problems.

I understand that you want to vent but ask yourself if the game is really worth trashing if you still continue to play it.

[sapi]

Grebnol, you've hit the issue on its head - there are dozens of people here claiming that m2tw is rubbish, but i haven't seen any of them stop playing :P

[gingergenius]

Yes it was a great battle - the Atzecs must have been surprised firstly by fire arows, then cavalry, then metal armour, then arquebusiers, then, to top it all elephants firing cannonballs at them. Not to mention fighting an army where some of the people look like them, while all the others are white, black, arab etc. no wonder they lost.

To everyone saying I'm hating on the game and still playing it - I just said it doesn't fulfil its potential. Like the other TWs it is a great game and addictive, but CA could have spent a few more months on it, testing it out to fix all the bugs, and making it complete - I like going back to Shogun's assassination movies, but why are there none for Aztec civilisations? I love the General's speeches but why do some factions have a piss poor selection of speeches to choose from? You feel they got factions like the English perfect to a T and then got bored towards the end.

[Shahed]

I think you guys have not interpreted the first post correctly. He does'nt say he hates it. He's voicing his frustration (that too only in 2-3 lines) in a good way.

[Barry Fitzgerald]

I don't think anyone said they hated the game...more over that it could be improved...I have been critical in many ways..but then having played all the TW games... I think I raised some points.

As it is...it is a good game..but one that needs more work done to lift it from a good but frustrating one..into the realms of a truly great game.

And I don't think the modders should shoulder that..down to the developer to get it right.

Anyway happy xmas

[dopp]

Yes it was a great battle - the Atzecs must have been surprised firstly by fire arows, then cavalry, then metal armour, then arquebusiers, then, to top it all elephants firing cannonballs at them. Not to mention fighting an army where some of the people look like them, while all the others are white, black, arab etc. no wonder they lost.

Victory through confusion? It must have seemed like the whole world was against them.

I'm surprised though that they took so many of your men down with them; fire arrows, firearms, cavalry; the elephants alone should have routed them before they could contact your line. Were you surrounded by any chance?

[Grebnol]

I must say that I've never in my life read so many negative posts from people who like the game. Not this forum specifically of course, but check out the total war.com forums...

I think everyone who thinks this game hasn't "lived up to it's expectations" should perhaps instead realize that just maybe their expectations were a wee bit too unreasonable.

Name one other strategy game (with battles that you actually fight yourself) that can hold a candle up to MTW2. You will find that the only games that have a chance are this games predecessors.

If you think I'm a "fan boy" for my above statements, that's fine. But I know a great game when I play one (despite all the bugs).

[gingergenius]

I must say that I've never in my life read so many negative posts from people who like the game. Not this forum specifically of course, but check out the total war.com forums...

I think everyone who thinks this game hasn't "lived up to it's expectations" should perhaps instead realize that just maybe their expectations were a wee bit too unreasonable.

Name one other strategy game (with battles that you actually fight yourself) that can hold a candle up to MTW2. You will find that the only games that have a chance are this games predecessors.

If you think I'm a "fan boy" for my above statements, that's fine. But I know a great game when I play one (despite all the bugs).

it think you are just being overly positive.

No other strategy game can hold up to MTW2. But I do not find it unreasonable to expect a polished, finished game for a good deal of money, from people who have made 3 fantastic previous games and who should therefore have the experience and desire for perfection that MTW2 seems to lack. None of its detractors have said its a bad game, and most people continue to play it - after all the additions have been a huge improvement on MTW1. But with improvements in some areas, they have also gone backwards in others which is why so many people are complaining.