View Full Version : Forum Alchemy: Gold to Spam
Gregoshi
12-28-2006, 05:40
I have noticed a disturbing trend in the last few months which I have taken to calling "forum alchemy". This is my term for turning a "gold" thread into a spam thread, usually with the end result in the thread getting closed. I've seen a few non-spam threads either hijacked by spam or evern worse, labeled as spam by other patrons who then spam it to closure.
The most recent example I am aware of is the For Beirut (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=76019) thread. The Stranger went to some effort to express some of his creative talents. The first several replies were supportive or in the spirit of The Stranger's work. However, it was eventually labeled as a spam thread which prompted others to jump on the "spam wagon" thus resulting in the thread getting the axe. A similar thing happend to another of The Stranger's creative efforts several weeks ago.
While I understand that spam is a pointless post (usually) just to up one's post count, I beg to differ that every "pointless" post is spam (according to one's opinion). If a post requires creativity and/or some measure of thought and/or more than a minute or two to create, then I don't see it as spam. To label someone's creativity or expression of thought as "spam" seems disrespectful to me. There are ways to express your spammishness here at the Org, but to do so at the expense of another's efforts is just wrong.
I guess what I'm asking of fellow Orgahs is to show some courtesy to those who are putting more effort into their posts that the label "spam" implies.
Banquo's Ghost
12-28-2006, 13:41
I would support this plea.
Whereas The Stranger might have acquired a reputation that tends to get his posts treated thus, he and others should be encouraged when they post creatively.
I like the idea of forum alchemy, Greg. We should all work to make the Philosopher's Stone operate in the profitable direction. :beam:
Big_John
12-28-2006, 16:27
+1? (+0)
Sasaki Kojiro
12-28-2006, 16:59
I think instead of warnings for blatant spam we should subtract 1000 from post count.
I tried to stop they.But I cant
EDIT:
I think instead of warnings for blatant spam we should subtract 1000 from post count.
Sounds a good idea.
Would it be possible to add the capability for a moderator to mark a thread with a "no postcount" flag, so posts in those threads don't increase postcount? Sort of like what happens here in the Watchtower, but on a thread basis? Might stop some of the unsanctioned spam.
Better yet, a "postcount decrement" flag, post in a thread tagged with this, and your postcount goes down by 1. It would be fun to see who puts "-1" in their posts...
or prunning spam threads who makes the spammers lose their post count.
edyzmedieval
12-28-2006, 20:08
Another fine post by Gregoshi. ~:)
I agree.
I think instead of warnings for blatant spam we should subtract 1000 from post count.
But what happens if the member has something like 800 posts or even 20 posts. They would end up in - figures.
Perhaps post counts should go forever. Everybody stays on 0 - forever.
But what happens if the member has something like 800 posts or even 20 posts. They would end up in - figures.
Minus 200 shouldn't be a problem. If the software is featured, every post will decrease the count: -201, -202, -203...
Thank you for the reminder Gregoshi.
LeftEyeNine
12-29-2006, 02:26
Would it be possible to add the capability for a moderator to mark a thread with a "no postcount" flag, so posts in those threads don't increase postcount? Sort of like what happens here in the Watchtower, but on a thread basis? Might stop some of the unsanctioned spam.
Better yet, a "postcount decrement" flag, post in a thread tagged with this, and your postcount goes down by 1. It would be fun to see who puts "-1" in their posts...
I doubt spamming is a matter of postcount anymore. People spammilimilimate for fun.
Respects to Greg the Everwise. :bow:
AntiochusIII
12-29-2006, 02:36
I'd spam to reduce my postcount. :beam:
No, seriously.
Gregoshi speaks wisely.
Perhaps it is time to strictly enforce BKS's ruthless spam policy.
Gregoshi speaks wisely.
Perhaps it is time to strictly enforce BKS's ruthless spam policy.
Whats that?
Vladimir
12-29-2006, 15:50
Whatever it is it's pink and that can't be good.
If I was a moderator in the frontroom my spam policy would be this:
All spam appearing after this message will be:
Deleted
Then the poster of the spam will gain one warning point in the first instance of spam followed by a PM reminding the individual of this policy.
In the second instance of spam two warning points will be issued. Also post count could possibly be decreased by up to twenty percent, depending on the severity of the matter.
In the third instance three warning points will be placed on the individual's account. This will result in a two day ban followed by a short spell as a Junior Member. Also the member will have at least thirty percent taken off their post count.
If this continues beyond three instances then the member will receive an enternal ban from the frontroom and possibly the whole of the Org forums at the discretion of admin. In this case post count will probably be reset to zero.Good threads which have turned into spam will not be closed. They will just have all the spam in them removed. Spam threads will not close. Instead they will be completely deleted along with all posts in them good or bad.
Would that policy make me a good moderator?
Whats that?
It's ruthless. That's what. :evil:
RRRRRRRRRRRRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNN!!!!
Never heard about that policy
Would that policy make me a good moderator?
You will gain the "Worse Mod" award in the HoF.
~D.Just jk.Its like the BKS spam policy.
Gregoshi speaks wisely.
Perhaps it is time to strictly enforce BKS's ruthless spam policy.
Now that's funny.:laugh4:
It's ruthless. That's what. :evil:
As ruthless as mine would be?
The Wizard
12-30-2006, 16:48
Good job, Greg. Onwards, my brethren, in the emancipation of the venerable Stranger!
+0
The Stranger
01-01-2007, 20:44
I'm only doing the best I can, thanx for backing me and others up, it is mostly appreciated :bow:
Dutch_guy
01-01-2007, 21:02
I think instead of warnings for blatant spam we should subtract 1000 from post count.
Or simply move said 'spam' threads, not the creative 'gold' threads, to the watchtower. Or ban blatant spammers to the watchtower, or simply freeze their post count for the duration of a warning...
:balloon2:
or simply freeze their post count for the duration of a warning
That's a great idea.
IrishArmenian
01-02-2007, 05:27
I think instead of warnings for blatant spam we should subtract 1000 from post count.
Good Idea. If the computer cannot process negative post count, why not take away %99?
The Stranger
01-03-2007, 21:14
this thread is getting dangerous :sweatdrop:
Save your post count in the CF bank of posts!
:laugh4:
I'm sorry for Spammmmmming in your thread Stranger, but I couldn't resist. It's my fault it was closed and for that I am truly sorry.
Minus 200 shouldn't be a problem. If the software is featured, every post will decrease the count: -201, -202, -203...
I'm afraid I'm not the only one who would be tempted to spam to obtain the lowest postcount.
- 1.052.587 posts, here I come! Yeehaa !
Well it does sound good, -1,384 posts and still 15 of the 30 posts on page 2
You can't dissatisfy everyone ~:(
You can't dissatisfy everyone ~:(
:laugh4:
Poor TosaInu, trying so hard to be the evil lord of Dot Orgus but alas, we love him so much that no matter what he does, we agree, we love it, we support it, we are happy with it.
:bow:
doc_bean
01-06-2007, 12:05
You can't dissatisfy everyone ~:(
Doesn't a short demotion reset postcount ? Or only when members are in 'demoted' state ?
Doesn't a short demotion reset postcount ? Or only when members are in 'demoted' state ?
No, it doesn't. The Demoted state strips display.
The Stranger
01-07-2007, 20:05
being demoted is not funny...
Andres, sucking up with Tosa won't help you become A Senior Member, A Staff Member or Get You An Award, it will only result in a satisfied Tosa and a sticky Andres :laugh4:
Gregoshi
01-09-2007, 14:57
Forum alchemy at work in the HoF Member Awards Q&A thread.:shame: Another useful thread rendered worthless by spam. I guess I won't be checking in on it anymore. 'Tis a pity that Tamur, ER and BKS have to though. ~:(
And the "usual suspects" again I see... :dizzy2:
The Stranger
01-09-2007, 15:35
:oops: I'm such a moron...
but actually... the discussion has only changed subject... not material... so gold changed colour but it didnt changed its dna... so actually no alchemy... because... useful posts are still posted... sometimes with a funny addition to it... So Gregoshi, don't be mad, discussions always change of subject after most has been said, that's the good thing, as long as the standard doesnt change (downwards). Which didnt happen, atleast I think so.
Hope you see this ;) :bow:
Gregoshi
01-09-2007, 16:36
There is a time and a place for everything The Stranger. Spam has been showing up more often and in more places. It does NOT belong in a thread to resolve issues regarding the HoF process. When I checked just a moment ago, 8 of the last 12 posts in the Member Awards Q&A thread were spammish in nature, and two others were from Tamur regarding that spam. That pretty much renders the thread ineffective in its original intent. I recognize that thread topics do tend to drift, but at least there is still something to read. When that drifting (or change in "colour" as you say) is spam, it just wastes time for no benefit at all - aside from the spammers having a good chuckle or two at their spamming. :no:
You're acting like spam is the end of the world, sorry but that's just stupid imo. It's not that bad, if Tamur really doesn't want it, he would have deleted it
You're acting like spam is the end of the world, sorry but that's just stupid imo.
Let's keep it friendly and civilised, shall we?
I understand Gregoshi's concerns. It is indeed annoying when you see an intresting thread title and you have to struggle through a massive amount of meaningless posts to find something intresting and topic related.
On the other hand, the "spamming" by regular members is a bit of fooling around with each other, mostly teasing each other, making fun... It's an expression of the friendly and nice atmosphere which is immanent at the Org. This IS a friendly place with lots of funny, nice members and it's just something that happens.
If you have a serious "real life" conversation with some good friends, you often get this intermezzo's of just making some bad jokes, afterwards you continue the conversation.
Off course, this is a forum and it IS annoying if you're looking for interesting information in a thread that has degenerated into spam. On the other hand, it cannot be avoided in a community with such a nice and friendly atmosphere as .Org. Members start interacting with each other like friends would do and this sometimes results in "spam".
I think that's the reason why some moderators tolerate it to a certain degree. When it runs out of hand or when members exaggerate, they act and punish the member involved. Imho, I think the staff has found a nice balance in acting against this sort of "spam".
Just my two cents :bow:
The Stranger
01-09-2007, 20:45
There is a time and a place for everything The Stranger. Spam has been showing up more often and in more places. It does NOT belong in a thread to resolve issues regarding the HoF process. When I checked just a moment ago, 8 of the last 12 posts in the Member Awards Q&A thread were spammish in nature, and two others were from Tamur regarding that spam. That pretty much renders the thread ineffective in its original intent. I recognize that thread topics do tend to drift, but at least there is still something to read. When that drifting (or change in "colour" as you say) is spam, it just wastes time for no benefit at all - aside from the spammers having a good chuckle or two at their spamming. :no:
Well, what happened to The Q&A Thread of HoF2006 was what you called Forum Alchemy, the thread which was intended a purpose and was primarily used for that purpose. Later the "Alchemy" of the thread changed and not the "Colour". Because the content of most posts (including mine IIRC) stopped being useful but were "spam/(nonrelatednonhelpfulposts)". But what happened here was more a change of "Colour/Subject". The post (atleast most) still continued in the line of "the" or "a" discussion.
I once started a thread about Charging from the Left Flank, in the colloseum. The topic was as the title may reveal about charging from the left in RTW... the thread became pages long and ended up being about guns and firearms instead of RTW and charging. But the content of the posts were still usefull (for those willing to participate and interested in the subject).
and at last, Andres' post said alot of what i wanted to say too, so it wont be neccesary to repeat it. What would also help alot against "Colourchange" and also agains "Alchemy" (till a certain degree) is just saying people should get back to topic or change the subject... I usually do that in threads i want to keep focussed on one subject... One post is usually enough to get it back on the rail, this thread is a fine example.
:bow:
Let's keep it friendly and civilised, shall we?
I am m8, I just never sound civilised ... that's because I come from the least civilised part of the world ... TWENTE
and Andres is right ... damned that was hard to admit
Sasaki Kojiro
01-10-2007, 21:01
Mafia will increase your post count much faster than spam.
The Stranger
01-10-2007, 21:12
I don't think its about postcount that much... most "Spam" on the .org is more a kinda competition between a few members...
I agree with The Stranger, but the people who post much are making something or they are very active and they never spam.
Mafia will increase your post count much faster than spam.
Depends on the player, if you are killed in the first round and the dead cant talk...
The Stranger
01-11-2007, 08:01
Í post much, I am very active, though I'm supposed to "spam" a whole lot. But I'm here to have a good time, and I think so are most of the members who have been here for more than a few months. Those "spam" posts of mine that do make some people laugh (so i've heard) aren't made to annoy people or just for the postcount... That wasn't even why I started in the first place. And if my way of having fun here is against the policy, I'll ge a warning and I'll accept that. If my way disturbs your way of having fun here, you can just tell me that and I'll take it in account. I'm really not here to annoy all of you.
Sensei Warrior
01-12-2007, 08:03
It would seem to me that the nature of habitual spaminators is to garner attention, or just be annoying. If you were to award a negative postcount to a piece of spam wouldn't that encourage habitual spammers to try to test the limits of a negative postcount?
I don't think its odd to see someone with 33 posts. It grabs my attention if they have less than 10, that means handle with care they're a newbie. It would be odd to see a member with a postcount of one, that doesn't normally happen. It would definately grab my attention if they had a postcount of
-3451.
Wouldn't a negative post count gain them a certain sense of noteriety, and be a reward in and of itself?
Seems like a waste of time and effort to me. The best solution is to hide their post counts. The user should be able to keep their post count private (I've seen this on other vbulletin forums). A habitual spammer would simply have his post count display locked at private, and none would be able to see it. There would be no points or flags attached to his profile to draw attention it, it would just appear to everyone else as if he'd just turned it off himself.
On my old forums I had a system where signatures, avatars and post count display would be taken away permanently from spammers. Depriving the children of their toys proved very effective.
Mafia will increase your post count much faster than spam.
Yeh.
Mafia will increase your post count much faster than spam.
But it isnt spam.
The Stranger
01-12-2007, 18:06
well... taking away your editbutton is a severe and annoying punishment but it sadly only leads to an increased postcount. But on this forum there are not that much spammers IMO...
Dutch_guy
01-12-2007, 18:13
But it isnt spam.
He knows, he merely stated it actually increases ones post count faster than spam does.
:balloon2:
Banquo's Ghost
01-13-2007, 14:31
well... taking away your editbutton is a severe and annoying punishment but it sadly only leads to an increased postcount. But on this forum there are not that much spammers IMO...
The idea of removing the edit button is to encourage one to think carefully about what is about to be posted - no doubt a failing that brought the warning in the first place.
If the only reaction is to submit three extra poorly thought out posts instead, the message has not sunk in sufficiently, and further warnings are likely to accrue.
:stupido2:
The Stranger
01-13-2007, 15:10
i have my edit button removed and some times i have to post some more posts... i forgot some thing or saw something i didnt saw before... and then you cant edit your post... i doubt (much) people will do that on purpose... even Tosa sometimes posts twice in a row...
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.