I like meat - am I a tyrant?

[Rodion Romanovich]

Apparently much of future food crisis caused by overpopulation, too rapid breeding and too small infant mortality rates could be solved by everybody becoming vegetarians. It will solve food crisis for a decade or maybe up to 2 decades, until overpopulating overbreeding people of the species homo sapiens has caused a new resource crisis by filling up the little new space that banning of meat, and a genocide of cattle animals would cause. To avoid massive starvation caused by overpopulation we have made many sacrifices already! We have given up the right to be able to walk through untouched nature, we have given up the right to live in isolation from massive world epidemias - the plague took 1/3rd of the brothers of my ancestors that lived in the middle ages and gave those of us who survived impaired vision. We have been forced to give up natural growing of our seed, being forced to apply Haber-Bosch method artificial fertilizers that hurt the soil in the long term and constantly destroy earth and lower our future capabilities of growing things in the undermined, destroyed soil, and poisoned our water, making our lakes disappear and become stinking swamps.

Now I ask you - who is the tyrant? Those who want excessive breeding of the homo sapiens species to continue, force all to become vegetarians (which is the only possible next step to avoid the next wave of resource crisis) by carrying out a massive merciless genocide aimed at extincting of all cows, pigs, sheep, chicken and other animals that we eat (what shepherd of the other animals would mankind then be?)? Or me, who thinks the overbreeding has long ago reached absurd proportions and must be stopped, so that we can keep eating our meat - a basic human right, and possibly reintroduce peace and freedom, as well as save the cattle whom we are the shepherds of from the malicious genocide planned by the overbreeders?

Overbreeding has taken untouched nature from us, it has taken the clear skies from us, it has taken healthy soils from us, it has taken our ancestors' brothers by diseases, it has spared the most cowardly and malevolent by constantly starting wars caused by the overbreeding. And it turns men who could be friends into bitter foes, who see it as a higher goal to extinct each other than improve themself.

But there shall be no further retreat and acceptance of this tyranny and the demonization of those who demand human rights over a reckless brutal massbreeding and massmurder contest! Here I make a stand! From here, I will not take a single more step back. If they want to take the meat from me, they will have to pry it from my cold dead hands! :charge:

Now I ask you - who is the tyrant, and who is the shepherd on earth? The overbreeder, or the seeker of freedom, peace and human rights?

[Banquo's Ghost]

Someone was forced to eat his sprouts at Christmas, methinks?

:wink3:

[BDC]

Someone was forced to eat his sprouts at Christmas, methinks?

:wink3:
On the other hand, if mass-vegetarianism avoids the need to eat turkey-everything for a week after Christmas, it could be worth the pain.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Someone was forced to eat his sprouts at Christmas, methinks?

:wink3:
on the contrary, the Christmas reminded me that I never want to lose my precious meat :laugh4:

[Rodion Romanovich]

On the other hand, if mass-vegetarianism avoids the need to eat turkey-everything for a week after Christmas, it could be worth the pain.
don't you see it's the other way around?!! The fact that you had to eat Turkey so many times in a row is because there's a shortage of meat - even now the genocide of our poor defenseless cattle animals has begun! There's a shortage of meat, thanks to the oppression led by the veggie folks! If there was meat in abundance, and food for everyone, and the trees full of glittering fruit once more, then you would not have needed to endure such suffering! Or if men would be at peace, and share a turkey, as a more meat-friendly world would allow, there would be no such suffering of the kind you speak of. So let us march to battle, and if this will be our last battle - if this will be the day known by our ancestors as the day when we died as martyrs for freedom - then so be it!

[Kagemusha]

Well if the veggies will take away the meat from our tables.I suggest that we eat the veggies.I have heard from reliable sources that with good Chianti they wont taste that bad.~;)

[Goofball]

I like cake - am I a firetruck?

[Hosakawa Tito]

And I like meat cake, a side of vegetables, all slathered in meat gravy. Am I a hockey puck?~:wacko:

[Cataphract_Of_The_City]

I am not sure about this but I believe I 've read in a book about nutrition habits of various people around the earth, that it is more efficient calorie wise to eat animals fed on vegetation than us eating that vegetation. Something on the order of 10 times more efficient.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

What I always find bizarre about evangelical vegetarians is that they don't seem to consider the fact that if everyone gave up eating meat, huge amounts of livestock would no longer be worth keeping and would be slaughtered.

[Somebody Else]

Grind up poor people and use the paste to fertilize a new crop of grain, with which to feed our cattle. Or just feed the paste directly to the cows.

It's the only way.

Yes, yes... I know that it's more energy efficient to eat, well, bacteria or something - all that stuff about 90% energy being lost with each step in the food chain. Actually. We should breed photosynthesising humans, if we want to maximise resoure efficiency. Some people are on the way there anyway...

[Mooks]

I once owned a little black pig when I was a little kid. I remember you could let it sniff something, then go hide that something in the ground, and the pig would sniff it out and find it.

Noone can take away my meat! And plus, everyone knows vegetarians are weak.

[Prince of the Poodles]

I anticipate a soylant green joke anytime now.

[Motep]

is that so, oh Poodle Prince? Well, Itn not gonna happin on my watch! :inquisitive:
I still say we follow my plan:


save a cow, eat a vegetarian


(note: It is on ,my cousins bumper sticker)


it makes them happy cause we arent eating the cows anymore. Besides people taste lik pork, right? :sweatdrop:

[doc_bean]

There is more than enough food in the world. Entire parts of Ghana which were used for growing crops are now left unused because the EU mass exports its products to Africa, calling it 'humanitarian aid' when they feel particulary evil. Local farmers can't grow crops or breed lifestock at the prices we are dumping food there. So they stop growing crops and move to the city where they can get food for practically nothing, which of course, undermines their entire economy since they aren't actually producing anything anymore.

Inside the EU, thousands of tons of food is destroyed because of the 'high demands' of the consumer. I know people working in the docks where the fruit arrives, they fill entire warehouses with damaged boxes, the food is most often still perfectly fine. Al that food is just destroyed, they are even forbidden to take anthing for themselves. Even if food makes it to the big local suppliers, they select based on appearance and various other criteria, destroying a whole bunch of 'unfit' food. Then it gets moved to supermarkets, who might also just select the best fruit and leave the rest to rot. Of course, if the food isn't sold and has been out there for a couple of days, it just gets thrown away because it's 'too old' to sell.

Now that's just fruit, consider milk, milk from Denmark and the Netherlands is exported all over Europe, and to Africa and Costa Rica (as powder iirc) competing with local producers. If the EU were to allow a growth hormone used in the US (and perfectly harmless according to most) they could produce FOUR TIMES that amount of milk, witht he same resources.

Similar results can be had with genetically modified crops. Which is probably why we don't allow them.

[Vladimir]

Two words: Star Trek.

You want food? Push a button and BAM, instant filet. I just imagine that your electricity bill would be sky high.

[yesdachi]

Two words: Star Trek.

You want food? Push a button and BAM, instant filet. I just imagine that your electricity bill would be sky high.
For insta steak, I’ll pay it! ~D


We are capable of making considerably more food than we do, its all supply and demand. In the US our gov actually pays some of our farmers to not produce food because we have such a high capacity we could ruin the market. As it is in many places it is cheaper to purchase foodstuffs from xyz country than it is for most of the 3rd worlders (the over populated) to grow it and that ends up hurting them in the long run.

[Moros]

I like cake - am I a firetruck?
I hope the same isn't true for pie...

[rory_20_uk]

Then there is the fact that some land is only suitable for animal grazing as crops are not suitable to be grown there (e.g. much of scottish highlands).

Many areas of the world it is small ongoing wars that are the root of the problem. And these small wars have probably been going on for hundreds of years, but now with guns and not hand weapons. Over 100 years ago the quality of life was approximately the same as that the world over. Now parts of the world have moved on, and some areas are still fighting each other.

Do we, the West owe it to our fellow humans to get involved?

The same places that demand and often fought for independence?

To go in to help means to go in armed. And what? Rebuild or in some cases build everything, then staff it and wait until the locals start to do it themselves?

England has enough problems without looking elsewhere to "solve" what is wrong with the rest of the planet.

~:smoking:

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The Black Death gave us impaired vision? I did not know that.

If you want to solve overpopulation then you have to reduce resources. So long as continue to increase the resources the population will increase.

The problem is exclusively a third world one anyway, where European populations are rising it is because of third world immigration.

As to Aid, well I've come to the conclusion that people should be made to stand on their own two feet, every time we interfere all we do is make ourselves feel good and create problems for the future. We irradicated Smallpox, I bet that hasn't helped the population crisis.

[screwtype]

Meat is just a bad habit. If you eat vegetarian for three months, just the smell of meat will make you gag. It's amazing how quickly your tastes can change.

The trick though, is to find really tasty and interesting vegetarian meals as a substitute. Plain vegies aren't terribly interesting. If you like spicy food as I do, indian vegetarian cooking has a lot to recommend it. But in fact there are lots of vegetarian recipe books containing great recipes from many different cultures if you spend a few minutes looking for them.

[King Henry V]

Vegetarians are responsible for global warming: just think how much methane they produce. Burn them!:whip:

[Crazed Rabbit]

I don't completely understand the original post, but I am a member of PETA, where we have a saying - vegetarian is an old Indian word for 'he-who-hunts-poorly'. ~;p

PETA, by the way, stands for 'People for the Eating of Tasty Animals', and I've got a life membership.

Crazed Rabbit

[BigTex]

I don't completely understand the original post, but I am a member of PETA, where we have a saying - vegetarian is an old Indian word for 'he-who-hunts-poorly'. ~;p

PETA, by the way, stands for 'People for the Eating of Tasty Animals', and I've got a life membership.

Crazed Rabbit

Curious after induction into that organization, does one get a complimentary set of forks and steak knives?

[Hosakawa Tito]

Mmmmm, Texas barbeque.

[The_Mark]

I don't completely understand the original post, but I am a member of PETA, where we have a saying - vegetarian is an old Indian word for 'he-who-hunts-poorly'. ~;p

PETA, by the way, stands for 'People for the Eating of Tasty Animals', and I've got a life membership.

Crazed Rabbit
Can I join?

[Yun Dog]

Grind up poor people and use the paste to fertilize a new crop of grain, with which to feed our cattle. Or just feed the paste directly to the cows.

It's the only way.


thats a great idea :idea2:

in fact its so great someone thought of it already, In India, when they used pieces of dead livestock and in some cases partially burnt humans from the river ganges which they ground into feedstock and sold back to the UK - hey presto - MAD COW DISEASE :oops:

not a good idea to eat your own kind - its a haven for parasites and disease to never have to leave the host

[Somebody Else]

thats a great idea :idea2:

in fact its so great someone thought of it already, In India, when they used pieces of dead livestock and in some cases partially burnt humans from the river ganges which they ground into feedstock and sold back to the UK - hey presto - MAD COW DISEASE :oops:

not a good idea to eat your own kind - its a haven for parasites and disease to never have to leave the host

Poor people aren't human, are they?

[Banquo's Ghost]

in fact its so great someone thought of it already, In India, when they used pieces of dead livestock and in some cases partially burnt humans from the river ganges which they ground into feedstock and sold back to the UK - hey presto - MAD COW DISEASE :oops:

My understanding is that most studies to date show that BSE (bovine spongiform encephalopathy) originated from the ground up remains of sheep and other animal bone meal that were fed to cattle by European farmers as a cheap fodder additive during the 1980s. Sheep suffer quite widely from a condition known as "scrapy" - a similar neuro-degenerative disease.

The UK suffered disproportionately because the government there lowered the temperature requirements for treating the bone-meal and therefore more of the casusative protein prions were left intact.

BSE is a cautionary tale of cheap-skate UK government policies, not an imported problem from India.

[Productivity]

What I always find bizarre about evangelical vegetarians is that they don't seem to consider the fact that if everyone gave up eating meat, huge amounts of livestock would no longer be worth keeping and would be slaughtered.

There is such a thing as a gradual draw-down of stock. Cattle don't have to breed, you could just eat what was left. Not that I really care, but your argument doesn't exactly make sense. You could drawdown the cattle (and other food based livestock) stock by consuming at current rates, while preventing breeding easily enough.

Given that even evangelical vegetarians probably aren't dumb enough to think the world will all instantly convert at one point of time, I don't see what's bizarre at all...


As for the thread, I'm a vegetarian and I don't have a clue what you're on about. You want to eat meat, you just keep doing your thing, just don't force it upon me...

[Geoffrey S]

The growth of the world population is going to make meat less attractive. Just work out the energy lost: food needs to be grown, fed to cattle, cattle dies, we eat meat. A large amount of energy goes into allowing the cattle to grow, while it could have been spent on feeding people. As the population grows and the relative amount of land declines, meat is going to become far more expensive in the coming century; land can be better used for growing crops.

Voluntary vegetarianism has little to do with this, rather that meat will become too expensive for consumption on a regular basis for a larger amount of people, even in the west.

[Prodigal]

:idea2: Soylent Green!

[rory_20_uk]

The growth of the world population is going to make meat less attractive. Just work out the energy lost: food needs to be grown, fed to cattle, cattle dies, we eat meat. A large amount of energy goes into allowing the cattle to grow, while it could have been spent on feeding people. As the population grows and the relative amount of land declines, meat is going to become far more expensive in the coming century; land can be better used for growing crops.

Voluntary vegetarianism has little to do with this, rather that meat will become too expensive for consumption on a regular basis for a larger amount of people, even in the west.

This leaves out the fact that animals can collect resources over a large area, and concentrate it in their own flesh. Fish is a good example of this - it's not as though we'd otherwise be eating the seaweed, is it?

~:smoking:

[Geoffrey S]

Those resources however are used for other purposes than growing, and therefore wasted for us. At some point that wastage will be untenable unless we either become more efficient or use the potential of Africa.

[yesdachi]

I read somewhere that the US is only 17% developed on average and in that 17% we could feed the current worlds population a couple of times over if we wanted to. I think we have some time before we need to worry about food, it is the poorly planned out cities that make us feel the punch of "overpopulation". My bigger concern is a decent retirement for all these people that are flooding the country.