faction re emergence

[sprucemoose]

as it says on the tin

when you wipe out a faction do they re-appear???

[NightStar]

No unfortunately they are not unflushables....when they are gone, they don't reappear

[sapi]

I know, it sucks :(

[sprucemoose]

bummer,hope someone mods it then,it would be good if the were a homeless horde like in RTW

[dopp]

You could do it up like the Pope asking for sanctuary when Rome is overrun, except that you won't have to hand over a province to them. Instead you could agree to "liberate" their homeland (a mission from the council of nobles maybe) and they would automatically become your allies/vassal if you succeeded. Saves having to manage those troublesome settlements yourself, plus they still count towards victory anyway.

[sapi]

Not a bad idea :P

I'd still prefer an emergance in the style of mtw though...

[IsItStillThere]

I know, it sucks :(

Are you kidding? That was one of the worst, most annoying design features of MTW. Once they are dead they should stay that way!!

[Doug-Thompson]

There is a very significant exception here. Wipe out the Mongols first wave. You'll get the "faction destroyed" message, no problem. Then the second wave will show up like nothing ever happened. I assume the same is true for the third wave and for all three waves of Timurids.

Also, I read somewhere on the forum that Mongols and Timurids can "go horde" if they occupy a city before you wipe them out, but I haven't experienced that yet.

[Czar Alexsandr]

The re-emergences in MTW 1 really depends on the re-emergence itself. I've had ones that were good.. and others not so good. I recall a certain King Hardeknud coming out of hiding at the grand age of 67 Of course that left him with some good units and me being at war with almost everyone made great friends with the guy quickly. I then perceded to fight more or less alongside him against Germans till he died a short couple yrs later. Not very loggical... but it was fun!

And another time the Horde came back as peaseants... ha... peaseants. The Horde, famous for it's horse archers and cavalry, re-emerges with cannon fodder...

However there are times where you finish anhilating a faction and in true probable historic sense the proud citizens strike back in force and send you're invading armies running back to the hills! Or...the steppes for me... Honestly something couldn't really happen like a French England or a Russian Poland? No way. Some Factions really can't give up. I don't mind! O_O

[Durallan]

hmm depends. if you don't exterminate their villages then yes i can understand them wanting to rebel and they already do this ingame, I'm having tons of trouble trying to control other cities although thats religious trouble. I occupied those cities instead of exterminating them so the citizens are still trying to rebel.

I think if you beat them fair and square and keep a healthy garrison in the city (using up all the free slots) then the cities shouldn't rebel to their previous faction. If a group of citizens decides they want to bring back their faction then they should arise up like the rebels, except they are that faction (not rebels) and they are a hell of a lot more powerful (for example 2-3 full army stacks) but it would be very very rare.

that way you have a chance of seeing them arise and therefore can roughly prepare to defend against them without losing cities to them immediately.

[katank]

Well, in MTW, the territories don't rebel. It's just giant stacks of troops that pop up in your territory if loyalty isn't good enough. Pope is exempted from this. He always comes back.

I found that kinda annoying with MTW. However, now that it's gone, I kinda miss it.:dizzy2:

[Mailman653]

I think it was a cool feature from MTW, especially when your X turns into your game and most of the map is dominated by 3-4 factions, if an old faction were to reapear, it would shake things up a little bitt, imo.

[Von Nanega]

I think it was a cool feature from MTW, especially when your X turns into your game and most of the map is dominated by 3-4 factions, if an old faction were to reapear, it would shake things up a little bitt, imo.

I also liked it when new factions would appear. Like the Swiss in MTW.

[JCoyote]

Ditto. Although I don't miss reemergence as much, I miss new factions appearing.

Arguably though, by the time any of us have taken a few turns in the game history has been derailed and the conditions that led to Swiss independence never happened.

But on the other hand, who's to say our actions wouldn't have cause a faction to appear that has no direct historical counterpart?

I think a good compromise would be, to allow ANY region to potentially generate a new faction, given proper circumstances. In the vast, vast majority of cases the "new" faction would just be a near clone of the units and features of major factions from that area. So for example, new factions appearing on the Iberian peninsula would all be near clones of the Spanish, Portuguese, or Moorish factions. If the Burgundians appeared, they would be very similar to the French in terms of units. There should be a couple notable exceptions, such as the Swiss.

I can think of three good conditions for a faction emergence. One would be regions that are constantly changing hands; they create a faction in self defense. Another is a region that sees too little development for too long; they feel ignored and go it on their own. And finally, any region that has too many non-heir royalty runs high risk of those family members deciding to form their own nation. So leaving a stack with 4 or 5 non-heiring generals in the same region is a bad idea. (Although I think there should be a random possibility of the third type much more readily accepting vassal status from their "parent" nation after a skirmish or two.)

This could account for both reemergence (ie, the Spanish are gone but the Castillians appear later and are nearly identical) and new faction appearance, without really having to add much extra content to the game, except for the Swiss.

[Quillan]

Also, I read somewhere on the forum that Mongols and Timurids can "go horde" if they occupy a city before you wipe them out, but I haven't experienced that yet.

I have, and I can confirm this. The Mongols (and I assume the Timurids) behave like the horde factions in RTW: BI. In my first game, the Mongols settled in Kiev. I had several assassins and a couple spies in the region, so I dropped them all around the city and it revolted. I got the "A People in Flight" message the following turn. They shifted north, took Smolensk and settled there, at which time I got the "New Homeland" message again.

This also means that to destroy them you really have to kill off all their family members, otherwise they turn up again like a bad penny.