My endless Irish campaign...

[Tony Furze]

Well this must be the tenth attempt.

Irish/Normal in the VI campaign. Uniting the island is OK but getting onto the mainland, thats the problem.

I ve tried several different tacks- using mercs, invading Cantware, the islands of the north, the Mercian territories in the east...


As soon as I get a foothold I get booted out.

Any advice appreciated!

[pevergreen]

Lots of armies, good units, multiple stacks.

:sweatdrop: i dont actually own the game...but yeah!

[Innocentius]

Strange, I had no problem at all establishing myself on the "mainland" during my first attempt (Normal). The Welsh usually get destroyed early on, or they are too weak to claim the rebel provinces of Western Wales, so Wales should be an easy target.
The Irish roster is perhaps the best in VI, except they lack archers, so it shouldn't be overly different to beat the enemy in battles.

[Peasant Phill]

Well this must be the tenth attempt.

Irish/Normal in the VI campaign. Uniting the island is OK but getting onto the mainland, thats the problem.

I ve tried several different tacks- using mercs, invading Cantware, the islands of the north, the Mercian territories in the east...


As soon as I get a foothold I get booted out.

Any advice appreciated!


What is exactly the problem? Why are you losing your footholds every time?

1) Maybe it's because you don't use your troops to there full extent. Ireland are for the main part skirmishers with gallowglasses as excellent flankers. You can't just command the Irish like you would do with the Vikings.

2) Maybe you waited to long. Turtling in a VI campaign is dangerous, as after some time at least one faction will be very big and very rich. There is just no winning against hordes and hordes of Huscarles (although kerns can do a lot of damage against them).

3) Maybe you attack the wrong province/faction. It's far easier to attack a faction that is on the brink of destruction than one that is flourishing. Try to find a faction that can be overrun rather quickly as a prolonged war is undesirable. Isolated islands are also easier to overrun.
You could also weaken your target faction by raiding his provinces first with expendable troops. especially the main troop producing province(s) should be your target. A faction is lost already when it can't outproduce its enemy.

4) Maybe your navy can't support you. If you can't protect your newly conquered shores with your ships or you can't reinforce your newly installed bridgehead, than you'r" living on borrowed time.

[Tony Furze]

Thanks all.

Peasant Phil: 1) Yes , Im certainly no expert with the troops-maybe the armies Im sending are just too small.In the last attempt I took on the Mercians due to their being a "weak" faction. They bribed my merc general, and split my army in two!(How come mercs can marry your daughters but dont get to hold titles?)

2)Yes, I did turtle (im an overcautious player).

Ill give it another go...then maybe rest a bit and play as someone more aggressive...

[Derfasciti]

I remember having problems on my first go on VI. I was Irish too and I sent a large army over to a rebel province just south of Scotland, after I beat them I immediately persued a war against the Scots where I was cut off from Ireland and had to fend off for myself. The entire war was a mess. For years we fought eachother back and forth over only two or three provinces, and finally I think i gave up.


It was frustrating, but in a fun way.:laugh4:

[Innocentius]

Establishing a bridgehead on the main island shouldn't be too hard once you've conquered and pacified all of Ireland (taking Manua helps as well). Use your best provinces (mainly the three more eastern provinces on the island, can't remember their names except from Connaught) to constantly send new troops to the mainland, while the other Irish provinces can create a few peasant units to maintain loyality. The only thing this requires is a strong fleet and you'll be safe from the Vikings (who rarely attack Ireland since the AI handles fleets in a very incompetent way). By the time all of Ireland is garrisoned with peasants, the remaining provinces should at least be teched-up to send Kerns to the real fighting.
It gets even easier since the Irish wont have to balance their armies in the same way as most other factions will have to. With other factions you'll have to balance out your armies to that you spear protects your archers, while you have some good infantry who do the real job (like Huscarles ones you can get them) and then finally some cavalry for killing off enemy archers and router-chasing (pretty much all cavalry in VI s*ck unfortuneately).
With the Irish, you can just mass Kerns and Gallowglasses, throwing in a few units of Horsemen or Mounted Nobles - and once you can get them those Huscarle-like units whose name I've forgotten - and you'll have an highly able army. Then it's just the tricky part of manouvering those javelin-throwing boys and victory'll be yours.

Finally, the Irish aren't a faction to turtle with, as has been mentioned, as their units are easy to reach, but quickly get outdated. By the time other factions can field great numbers of Huscarles you're pretty screwed. Also, going for the south and middle of the main island (ie Saxons and Mercians) is a good idea, as these factions will become the strongest later on, and will have the best units. Scotland is pretty poor and neither the Picts nor the Scots have any real über-units (except Pictish Mounted Crossbowmen).

[Tony Furze]

Thanks.

Decided to give it (another)rest. But I ll be back, after a bit more experience.

One problem is the Irish dont have high star generals, I think 1 star was the highest I had. Even Rebel provinces had 3+ stars. So I was fielding an army of Newbies then on top of that mercs who have 0 loyalty anyway.

The other thing is if a battle goes bad, then the inevitable "pay for prisoners" message comes up, and damages the economy. This was in spite of the fact that I had ships absolutely everywhere they could be in stacks of 2 and 3.

Maybe im just not good enough...

I want to learn to be a more aggressive/expansionist player in campaign as well as battle-which is the best faction to choose on Normal difficulty,starting Early? (Please don t say the Irish...)

[Peasant Phill]

The easiest faction in VI is no doubt the Vikings. They have kick-ass infantry with some uber units. Only their cav is weak but you will only be needing them against missile units and routers. The only problem for them is money, but raiding solves that.
It just gets a little dull when you're greatly outnumbered and you still know you'll win easily.

Behind the vikings are IMHO the Saxons, the Mercians, the Picts and the Irish. They all have their strongpoints and there weaknesses. Try to figure out what you're good and decide.

P.S. Never use a merc as general. Like you've seen they're not loyal to you and are easily bribed (and taking there entire stack). Secondly, mercs have sometimes questionable morale and the last thing you need is a general routing at the first contact with the enemy.

[Tony Furze]

Thanks for the advice,PeasantPhil.

I was under the foolish impression that maybe a merc general could be "turned" given a beautiful daughter of the king and the command of a stack. As you say, they re loyal to noone but themselves in the end, that includes saving their own skin.

[Innocentius]

The lack of good generals is somewhat compensated for by the +1 valour Kerns you get from Connaught, and since Kerns are the best unit available to the Irish (I don't think that Irish Cavalry exists in VI, right?) that should help. Use your king and princes a lot in battle.

[King Kurt]

I have only played the Irish once, on hard, but did manage to conquer all - I even got a emissary to denmark and bribed some Vikings so I could conquer there as well. Couple of tricky periods, but got there in the end.
My advice?
1) Be quick - don't turtle.
2) take Wales as your mainland base - easy to take and defend.
3)Use mercs for the units you can't get - archers, armoured infantry, mounted nobles
4) Use your strengths - kerns, gallowglasses etc
5) Use your princes as generals - I had some good generals amongst them - don't be frightened to use your king early on - helps his influence, just don't get cut off.
6) You need a navy - get 2 provinces producing ships - any sort will do - great for trade and keping the Vikings away - remember you do not need to fight their boats, just be in every sea area you can stops them.
7) I had a sizeable army on mainland England that got cut off. If that happens, defend your base - Wales is great for that - and slash and burn with your cut off army - keep it moving, destroy all you can and move it back to your base by the route of least resistance - I went via East Anglia, the South Coast to eventually to get back to Wales.
8) Cornwall is worth taking as a secondary base - means the saxons have to fight on 2 fronts.
9) Think about creating civil war in your enemy's provinces. in my campaign i managed to assasinate the king of the saxon's then attack his sucessor in several places to lower his influence so much that civil war broke out - I was then able to bribe some rebels to help me finish him off - with some nice Huscarls to boot.
Hope that helps.

[Tony Furze]

Great stuff,King Kurt! Ill be keeping that for my next attempt-sounds more like what I need to curb that annoying habit I have of hesitating...

At present I ve gone back to MTW 1.1 and playing the Byz to the first era, 1205, to hone whatever skills I ve managed to get through the useful advice.

[drone]

I'm currently doing my first Irish campaign, I've got all of Ireland, have eliminated the Saxons and am close to killing off the Mercians. The Welsh have been crippled by rebellions and poor management, and the Scots, Picts, and Northumbrians are pretty stagnant, having some trouble with the Vikings (and the rebels in Reget, the gift that keeps on giving!). Unless the Vikings get uppity, it shouldn't be too much trouble to mop everybody up.

It did take me a while to get to the main island, I was cautious about my landing point and wanted to get in some upgrades first. For Ireland, I think I attacked Ulster first, kicking the Scots out and starting teching up the armor/weapon/morale capability there. It's hard slotting the gold mines in while teching up, but this is important. Next I took Laigin, then Munster and Connacht. Munster has iron, so it became my second troop producer, although I did eventually get ships going there as well (needed the extra port for transport). IIRC, Laigin produces Kerns at +1 valour, so I built a drinking hall there, then went with port/boats/trade to get ships out. Laigin is your only trade province on the island, so it's logical to get the ship tech going there. Connacht is fairly worthless, I upgraded the farms then started spy production there. I had to upgrade Brega some while taking over Ireland, but once that was complete, it was farms, assassins, and bishops.

Once the port was in place, a princess was shipped off to the Viking King, and I haven't had any trouble from them since. I started pumping out ships, and was able to grab a rebel Manua (which is nice since it has iron). I spread my ships around, getting some nice trade but also checking out my options. I also made sure my troops got the latest armor/weapon upgrades. The Welsh had Cernui (Cornwall), but it went rebel on them and I pounced. From there it was just a matter of pushing into southern England. Cernui, Defnas, and Sumorsaete all have iron, having your foothold in these provinces helps for retraining and new troop production. I wanted to eliminate the Saxon/Mercian factions first anyway, and was able to take on the Saxon Huscarles before they got tech upgrades. The Mercians didn't have many Huscarles, so they have been pretty easy.

For troops, at the start build Kerns and Gallowglasses mainly, with a few Dartmen and Bonnachts sprinkled in. When taking over Ireland, you may want a few spearmen units, but disband them as soon as possible. They will be worthless when trying to take on Huscarles, and the upkeep kills you compared the cheap "native" troops (2-3X as much). Merc archers and horsemen can also be useful for taking over Ireland, but again too costly to maintain for long. Your early economy cannot cope with many of them.

Once you are ready to take on the main island, start cranking out teched-up Armoured Spearmen from Ulster and Munster. These work very well for pinning huscarles, and will last quite a while when you zip around the flanks with your Kerns and Gallowglasses. Use your spare heirs in battle against Ulster and the Irish rebels to get them experience, they will be needed for the jump to the main island. Taking the King or first heir is a recipe for disaster. I also think troop loyalty becomes a problem if you wait too long to attack the main island, your King's influence will not get very high if you just sit around.

I'm still having trouble getting used to Kerns and Bonnachts in battle. They both start the fight in Fire-At-Will/Skirmish, this causes problems sometimes. Bonnachts should not be in skirmish mode, they are too good to be backing away. I don't think I will ever get the hang of Kerns, but I can get a few volleys in now where they are needed. Once your Kerns have used their ammo, they are great for chasing archers and routers, or hitting units in the rear (since you should be in the back with them anyway ~;) ) to cause chain routs.

Sorry for the long post, hope this helps some!

[Vladimir]

I love playing Ireland until I invade GB. When I do, my stack of units with paper thin armor are met with 4-5 stack of Mercians of varriable quality. The Picts are poor but easy to play once the North is secure. The Irish are just a pain.