So... Lances don't work on cavalry?

[akodo]

I've been playing with Sicily lately when I attacked a unit of egyptian Arab Cavalry (I think, those light cavalry they get) with a group of Norman Knights. I charged at the heathens after some menuvering, from the right angle and the right distance for a perfect, infatry killing charge...
And nothing happened. Nothing. The knights rode to the enemy, bumped into them and changed to swords to start the melee. The lances did nothing at all.
So, it this a bug or a feature? Shouldn't the lances do damage, even if not as much as to infantry, to cavalry?

[Forward Observer]

I think sometimes the need to switch from swords to lance or back gets messed up.

I've had a similar problem with some English knights. I was inside the first curtain wall of Spanish fortress and had a unit of about 15 knights that encountered only 6 or 7 enemy knights. My knights would not switch from lances to swords, but the enemy knights did.

Consequently by only bringing a big pointy stick to a knife fight, my 15 guys got totally annihilated.

[Dutch_guy]

Are you using the vanilla version ? In 1.0 it's quite tricky getting the charge right, the terrain needs to be flat, the distance needs to be just right and you must only pres the right (charge) button once.

IN the patch, version 1.1, every charge (well, more or less anyway) 'll bring the desired couched lance effect.

So, install the patch if you haven't already - or be prepared to practise for a while.

:balloon2:

[Blademun]

Personally I think Lances should only be used once on the battlefield anyway. That 20000 ft pounds of torque, or whatever it is, almost always breaks the lance after impact. It is suppose to be a one-shot deal.

I also feel that the lances should be way more usefull against other knights/horsemen. That's one of the primary reasons lances were made, is for knights fighting knights. Jousting was suppose to be a mock of actual battlefield combat afterall.

As it stands, I prefer using a cheap unit of cavalry like hobilars or horse archers, to absorb enemy charges. THen let my spearmen walk up to the enemy knights and skewer them while the light cav pull away with whatever its got left.

[akodo]

I think there is a misunderstanding. My problem isn't with the knights not switching to swords, they are doing that quite well after they charge. My problem is that the actual lance charge, where the knights strike at their foes with thier lances, doesn't do any damage to cavalry. The charge itself doesn't do anything, only after they switch to swords I see some damage.
I play 1.1, and have no problem with charges...

[CeltiberoMordred]

M2TW cavalry charges:

- Devastating vs infantry: you can kill everything with the worst cavalry unit. Mass instant deaths, and even before horses or lances touch the infantry.

- Pointless vs cavalry: too few kills, no matters how good your cavalry is, or if you attack from rear, flank, etc.

You can call it bug or feature. I call it bug, but since people are glad with this new "feature", I doubt it will change very much in further patches.

[Spark]

I don't usually get clean charges on cavalry during battles, but in tests a straight cavalry charge into another cavalry unit does wipe out a lot of the first row of cavalry. Try it out.

[katank]

Lance charge infantry and sword charge cavalry is the way to go in general.

[Dutch_guy]

Lance charge infantry and sword charge cavalry is the way to go in general.

Why do you prefer sword charging cavalry ? Surely a lanced charge to the flank of an already engaged enemy cav. unit would be better ?

:balloon2:

[The Stranger]

he doesnt says he prefers it... he says they are to good... I think he means in M2TW...

[katank]

@ Dutch guy,

In most cav on cav engagements, the enemy cav isn't already pinned and it's head on. Sword charging works very well in this case. As for already pinned cav units, a lance or sword charge is enough to break them. Sword charge is often far easier to set up.

In the vanilla game, I find my flanking/rear attacking units sword charging a lot. Two sword charges have more effect than a single lance charge. Furthermore, sword charge by itself is usually enough to rout them on impact. A quicker charge means less of my men die waiting for deliverance by cav.

Only real lancing is when I'm facing infantry and I don't have much to pin. In this case, repeat lance charging is the way to go.

[The Stranger]

sorry DG... i misread his post :P

[Oaty]

Robert the Bruce proves how ineffective lances can be vs cavarly.

Anyways, only so many factors can be considered when it comes to a game, and cavalry charging cavalry so for ease and gameplay lances are ineffective vs cavalry.

An easy way to put it if I someone is coming at me swinging a bat, the best thing for me to do is move as fast as I can towards him and in all reality I should meet him eye to eye before he gets a full swing. Now think of trying to hit a person with a bat when they are less than a foot away from you.

So if you dodge the point of the lance they are now vulerable untile they pull there secondary wepon

The difference was infantry was stationary compared to cavalry, and cavalry was mobile vs cavalry.

As far as the jousts go in hollywood they never doge the bullet and somone always gets hit with a lance. In reality I'm guessing it was a drawn out event with most of the lances missing the opponent.

[dopp]

Actually, lances ARE rather good against other cavalry, especially if your target doesn't have one himself. French lancers (light cavalry) butchered their English opponents (mostly heavy cavalry) at Waterloo. Apparently the reach advantage does matter.

What usually happens, however, is that the target cavalry will ride forward to meet the charge, resulting in both lines passing through each other and individual riders trading blows. As Oaty puts it, mobility vs mobility. It would be nice if they implemented this "countercharge" feature in M2TW, but imagine the pathfinding and cohesion horror. I'd settle for the way it's handled right now.

[The Stranger]

in a tight formation i think it doesnt matter if the lance misses the one before you cuz hell than hit the one next to him... sadly they barely ever had tight formation...

[Veresov]

The problem is the charge itself and the animation. Horsearcher's fix has the cavalry and infantry charge working much better than the vanilla version.

[katank]

Buggy switch to secondary is the big issue here along with unit cohesion. If they all charged in a tight conroi and then fluidly switch to their swords after the lance charge, then it will be worthwhile to lance charge cav. As it stands, lancing stinks against anything that moves (even archers skirmishing away).

While fun to charge sword infantry in custom battles just to see the little guys flying everywhere, I don't use lance charges nearly as much in actual campaign battles.